I'm for Bernie, but we need to give Hillary her props.

[rogerashton]

1) The pubs are afraid of her, and with good reason. They have been hitting her with their worst for 25 years, and she is still standing, and I'm pretty sure that, if elected, she will kick some pub rear ends. I supported Obama in 08, but it was a tough decision because I didn't think he would kick rear ends, and unfortunately that seems to have been right. Je ne regrette rien, but ....

2) Her flexibility is a strength, not a weakness. Intelligent people learn from experience. She will go as far left as a majority of the Democratic party will take her.

3) Transparency, which she is said to avoid, is an overrated tendency, especially in diplomacy. A diplomat is an honest person sent abroad to lie for her country. Seems I read somewhere -- sorry, no source, I think it was in print -- that the email server she shared with Bill was not hacked, but the State Department one was.

4) Spending more time on the campaign listening rather than talking is a good thing, not a bad one, and probably particularly smart for Hillary -- collecting some stories as well as retail politics.

I could probably go on but I have a four-o'clock.

[True Blue Door]

1. No, we don't need to give Hillary "her" props just because she's constantly in the way.

1. Republicans are not afraid of her, they just hate her as "unfinished business" from the Clinton administration. To their minds, the Clintons were the ones who finally broke the Reagan spell, and to them that's tantamount to deicide. What especially galls them is that Bil Clinton was from the South, so they hate him as a cultural apostate. Hatred of the Clintons is personal with them: They couldn't care less what their policies are, which is why it's so insane that both Bill and Hillary have tried so hard to appease them for decades.

2. Hillary Clinton is not "flexible." Flexibility doesn't move in only one direction, but she does. Her views are those of a consummate collaborationist and appeaser, always sympathizing with the louder, more threatening voice, and telling the more rational one to be even quieter lest it provoke the other. Nor does she learn from experience. She has learned nothing from failing America during the Iraq War era. She still thinks she's right, and everyone else was wrong, and that's her default attitude. America is wrong, Democrats are wrong, history is wrong, and Hillary Clinton is NEVER wrong. That is her moral foundation.

3. I don't care if she's transparent or not, as long as what she shows isn't complete bullshit or some horrible disgrace. Unfortunately, usually it is. When she's honest, what she says is horrifying, and goes back to #2.

4. She's "listening" to what rhetorical buttons to push, and still somehow hearing the exact opposite of what people are saying. I await her next idiotic right-wing attack on the Obama administration, her own Party, and common sense as her version of "showing independence."

She is an expert at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, and flushing moral authority handed to us on a silver platter straight down the toilet. That is what we could expect from her as a general election candidate. Disgrace without end, probably followed by defeat without vindication.

[madokie]

2. I couldn't have said it better if I tried

[JaneyVee]

3. Voters on the ground disagree with you.

https://mobile.twitter.com/adamslily/media/grid?idx=0&tid=601018876709761024

[True Blue Door]

4. Voters are unfamiliar with anything other than her name.

The rest of us have no excuse. We have an obligation not to give our Party's imprimatur to this nihilistic loser on wheels.

She played the same "inevitability" game in 2008, trying to trade celebrity into validity like a Kardashian, and thank fucking God we avoided that disaster. No reason to court it again.

There's no excuse to pretend this person is a moral leader or even a wise politician. Her record is despicable, her failures colossal and illustrative of depraved indifference to all liberal values or even common sense.

You think you're going to namedrop some Twitter feed and intimidate us with early polls? Please.

[JaneyVee]

7. You really think you're any better or your vote counts anymore than...

Her enthusiastic supporters on the ground? Apparently there are millions who like her voting record and leadership skills. So when you say "we" and "us" remember that you're actually only talking about yourself. And if you feel "intimidated" by polls, maybe you should be.

[True Blue Door]

8. Everyone can only ever speak for themselves.

I'm saying that people who support her overwhelmingly do so by default, because they either aren't aware of her record, or are so fear-minded they think they have to nominate her as a matter of practicality because her machine's self-fulfilling prophecies are telling them she's inevitable. Just like in 2008, and we were strongly rewarded for resisting that lemming message.

They aren't aware yet that she is a loser who would squander the nomination. We will make them aware.

[Agschmid]

18. You could support Bernie in a positive way...

Not by calling others lemmings, I doubt Bernie would support that assertion.

[JoePhilly]

23. He thinks belittling the people who already like and admire hillary ...

... will get them to think some one else will DEFINITELY beat the GOP in 2016.

Won't work.

[leftofcool]

29. Are you saying that 86% of the Democrats who support her are dumb?

86% of Dems who support someone they like and respect because they are fearful or support her by default or are unfamiliar with her record?

[eloydude]

32. Sorry, recent polls now show a major drop.. 49%!!!!

Now gasp and panic...

Bernie is rising, at the expense of Clinton...

[Unknown Beatle]

9. All she is doing is

uttering liberal platitudes. How convenient that she was for the Iraq war and now she isn't because, "I made a mistake." No, she didn't make a mistake, it's because that's the direction that the political wind is blowing at the moment.

Why hasn't she taken a stand on the TPP? Her silence only confirms, at least in my mind, that she's for the TPP.

[brooklynite]

14. "Voters are unfamiliar with anything other than her name"???

Right...if only she'd had a chance to run for President previously, people might have gotten to know her.

Or maybe if the President had given her a prime Cabinet post, she'd have some accomplishments to point to.

[stevenleser]

25. Bernie says he doesn't want his campaign to be about attacking Hillary. You are rejecting his

Leadership by this post.

[okaawhatever]

15. Oh Bullshit. On point #1:

Newt Gingrich:

If Clinton runs, Gingrich told NBC's Meet the Press this week, she'll be "supported by Bill Clinton and presumably a still relatively popular President Barack Obama." Gingrich continued: "The Republican Party today is incapable of competing at that level."

Ed Pilkington at The Guardian:

Judging by Gingrich's trepidation, Republicans are indeed "having cold sweats over the prospects of facing Hillary Clinton at the ballot box," says Ed Pilkington at Britain's The Guardian. And with good reason. She's a former First Lady, an ex-senator, and a successful secretary of state who has already shown she can stand up to the rigors of a hard-knuckled presidential campaign. Looking around at the possible standard-bearers in their ranks, many Republicans may conclude that "if Clinton decides to stand in 2016, they are toast."

Time Magazine:

HOLLYWOOD — Republican leaders plotted their party’s political comeback on Thursday with plans to court minority voters and modernize their political operations. But some wondered if one person could make it all for naught: Hillary Clinton.

As attendees of the Republican National Committee’s spring meeting debated party rules and a refurbished GOP brand capable of winning back the White House, more than two dozen operatives and officials expressed worry that none of their party’s potential 2016 candidates can take her down.

One early primary state RNC member put it simply: “If she gets in, we’re toast.”

OccupyDemocrats:

The Top Five Reasons Why Republicans Are Terrified of Hillary Clinton

http://www.occupydemocrats.com/the-top-five-reasons-why-republicans-are-terrified-of-hillary-clinton/

Huffington Post:

Why Are Republicans So Afraid of Hillary?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-d-rosenstein/why-are-republicans-so-af_b_4723528.html

PoliticsUSA:

A Terrified Reince Priebus Admits The GOP is Trying to Scare Hillary Clinton Into Not Running

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/05/18/terrified-reince-priebus-admits-gop-scare-hillary-clinton-running.html

[roguevalley]

5. agreed. I am for bernie because I don't believe in coronations. Her 25 million

with bill from speaking speeches sinks her further for me. Rich repugs in the millionaires poll said they consider her the next best thing if their pet doesn't win. She's not much different from any other marie antoinette on that side of the aisle. RV preparing for incoming for having and expressing my opinion which means nothing in the greater scheme of things. I do appreciate you rogersashton for making a gesture.

[rogerashton]

17. I take it from your screen name that you live in SW Oregon.

Nice country. Remote, though. Of course, some like remote. Anyway, your opinion means as much as mine or anybody's. Still, can you give a source for the "millionaires poll" you cite?

[roguevalley]

31. I was raised there and it isn't remote. its a hub for the region

as long as i could remember. If remote means under 50k people in the towns, then its remote. But I live in rural Alaska.

Here is the link where I read this.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/04/28/wall-streets-worst-nightmare-rand-paul-ted-cruz.html

I am trying to find the poll link. I heard it on the news and saw it in a list of news stories shortly ago but I can't find it. Yet. The date is irrelevant to the idea among the repug zillionaires. What they believed then hasn't been relieved by the antics of the pugs now. I will post the link when I find it. I am going to the movies now. Have a good one.

[Maedhros]

6. Respectfully disagree. I see Hillary as a very poor choice for President.

The Republicans may fear her, but that's no endorsement of her policies.

She will not go anywhere "left", let alone "far left." BTW, the phrase "far left" should be banned from DU, because it is used primarily by conservative to describe basic liberal positions.

Transparency is directly related to accountability. I've seen enough of "it's secret, but trust me, it's great!"

Listening is great, but candidates have to tell us where they stand so we can make informed choices. So far, Hillary is obfuscating her position the the TPP because she knows it's unpopular.

Your post sure doesn't read like it came from someone who's "for Bernie."

[rogerashton]

10. Well, I am for Bernie.

I anticipated that response, tried to think it through. Remember the old joke -- a crowd passes, followed by an individual who says, "I need to get ahead of them, because I'm their leader." That's the kind of leader Hillary is. Well, in a Democracy, that's what you mostly get. But Bernie says, "Here is the direction we need to go. Follow me, and we will move in the best direction." So I favor Bernie. But if we really are willing to move in Bernie's direction, she will do her best to get ahead of us. And if we finally are not, at least she will smite our enemies hip and thigh.

About "far left" -- I meant that only in a relative sense. I'm "far left" by winger standards. When I left Baton Rouge -- long ago! -- I was under a death threat from the wingers there. Hello, Yakeeland!

[Maedhros]

11. I get the impression that Hillary, like Obama, will say whatever we want to hear

in order to get elected. Once in office, we'll get the back of her hand, just like we got with Obama.

She's counting on her humongous war chest to harvest votes using Madison Avenue campaign propaganda techniques - and, unfortunately, it may work.

The U.S. is like a massive bus, speeding toward a chasm. Bernie wants us to turn away from the chasm. Hillary wants us to slow down, just a bit, but stay on course - and maybe change the radio station to something more pleasant.

[rogerashton]

19. I don't think you are quite fair to Obama there.

As I recall, he ran clearly to the right of Hillary, and tried for years to govern that way. That's how we got Romneycare, for example, rather than Medicare for all.

Of course, running just to Hillary's right was calculated, as he knew there was no danger of losing the left in the general election. My complaint about Obama is that he is too honest -- he could have "pivoted" once in power but did not, and could have been a better president, and put the pubs on the defensive, if he had been more willing to "play the game."

[Maedhros]

22. The list of President Obama's complete reversal of Candidate Obama's promises

is legendary.

For example:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2008/11/the_tmi_presidency.html

Obama promised that his Administration would be "the most transparent in history", because he knew that voters were fed up with Bush Administration obfuscation.

Yet, in office, he has classified more things than any other President and has waged open war on whistleblowers, leakers, and investigative reporters.

[NaturalHigh]

12. I'll flip it the other way. I'm for Clinton, but I'll give Sanders his props.

He seems like a man who stands up for what he believes.

[Cha]

13. Thank you.. I don't have a candidate yet.. and I will give them all their props.

[AtomicKitten]

16. No, she does not deserve nor will get "props."

She owes an apology to the parents, spouses, and families of the some 45,000 Americans and 1 million Iraqui citizens killed in the ill-begotten war she greenlighted.

[rogerashton]

20. That's the strongest point against her, I agree.

It is a result of her "leadership style." Remember how things were in 2003. There was opposition to the war (me for one but I am a nobody) but a big majority drank the Kool-Aid, so Hillary "led" the majority in drinking it. With Hillary, it is up to us: if we can't bring the majority over to our side, she will "lead" them to the dark side. And if we can't bring the majority over to our side, Bernie will not get the nomination, or, if nominated and elected, will be hung out alone and even more powerless in office than Obama. I think a lot of the criticisms of Hillary, and of Barack for that matter, should be directed back at us, the Democratic left, for out inability to get our ideas out to the undecided and uncommitted. Let's quit kvetching and fight for our candidates, be they Hillary, or Bernie or -- let's see, does O'Malley go by Martin or Marty?

[Martin Eden]

21. I'll give Hillary what she's earned ...

... my everlasting contempt for voting to give GW Bush authority to invade Iraq.

I'll give my vote to the Democratic nominee in the general election, but I sincerely hope it's not her.

[Robbins]

24. no we don't

Doesn't matter what she says now she in white house will be wall street's best friend.

Bill Clinton has defended companys moving HQ overseas to avoid paying taxes.She will be no different than him.

He was fine with giving wall street wellfare while cracking down with wellfare reform on the 99%.He signed bill allowing for media consoldation in this company and deregulted the banks.

Hillary pals around with Henry Kissinger.

She is no liberal.unfortuly MSM has fooled enough into believing the lie.Bill and Obama are no liberals eaher.

Hillary or republicans wall street and neocons win.

[djean111]

26. No, we don't. And this is primary season. She is not exempt.

Those somewhat iffy "props" may come in handy if she wins the nomination and that "lesser evil" thing is invoked. But - she is what she is. And she doesn't need props, she has ALL THAT MONEY.

[fredamae]

27. Absolutely! I WANT more

candidates. I Want Choices. I Want to Hear from them All...in spite of the fact I Am for Sanders.

[BeyondGeography]

28. Rec'd; no matter how you feel, you have to respect her

at the very least as an opponent who is very difficult to defeat. As an Obama supporter from the start in 2007, I thought it would be a lot easier than it actually was.

[winter is coming]

30. A four o' clock? Sounds more like a 4:20.

"Her flexibility is her strength" is my favorite .