TPP/TPA question

[Renew Deal]

I thought TPP was a treaty. If it's a treaty, doesn't it need 2/3 to pass? I know they can end debate at 60 votes. Or is it that Obama wants TPA so he can negotiate and the treaty component comes later.

I ask because the vote was 62-38. That's less than 2/3.

[jberryhill]

1. It's a procedural vote ahead of approving or disapproving the treaty

The question at this point is whether to allow 90 days debate and an up-or-down vote. The alternative is to open it up for revision/amendment, and then pass an amended version which won't be accepted by the other negotiating parties. On the other hand, maybe they would have to consider that they can't get what they want without the 2/3 eventual approval of the Senate otherwise.

Some of the political theatrics are really negotiating tactics anyway.

If you ask me, I don't see why it should be a big deal to go ahead with the fast track vote, get it out in the open, have the key objections identified, and then vote the treaty down. Then the negotiators have a clear set of "we need to discuss X, Y, and Z if you want a treaty that would pass".

Otherwise what would pass the Senate as a treaty is entirely hypothetical.

But there seems to be political hay to be made by keeping this thing bouncing around in the air, and everyone seems to enjoy the drama.

[Renew Deal]

2. Thanks for the info

People are acting like it's the end of the world, but as far as I can tell nothing has really happened.

[1StrongBlackMan]

5. +1 ...

someone knows something about negotiations!

[1StrongBlackMan]

3. Here is a good discussion on this topic ...

http://conginst.org/2011/12/12/trade-or-treaty-why-does-the-house-approve-free-trade-agreements/

Or is it that Obama wants TPA so he can negotiate and the treaty component comes later.

President Obama doesn't want TPA to negotiate TPP ... He wants it so that once a multi-party deal is reached the republicans won't be able to unwind it by changing a comma (which will mean the entire deal goes back to the 11 other members for approval) or by inserting stuff like cuts to SS or Medicare/Medicaid (meaning Democrats/President Obama will kill the agreement).

[MineralMan]

4. I don't think trade agreements have treaty status.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure TPP isn't a treaty. I think only a majority vote is required.

[Spazito]

6. If an agreement is submitted to the Senate for advise and consent...

it is considered a treaty and must be approved by a 2/3rds majority vote. If an agreement is not submitted to the Senate it is considered an executive agreement according to this information I found on the Duke University law site:

U.S. Treaties & Agreements - The Process

Under U.S. law,

treaties are equivalent in status to Federal legislation;
a distinction is made between the terms treaty and agreement;
the word treaty is reserved for an agreement that is made by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate (Article II, section 2, clause 2 of the Constitution);
agreements not submitted to the Senate are known as executive agreements; and
regardless of whether an international agreement is called a convention, agreement, protocol, accord, etc., if it is submitted to the Senate for advice and consent, it is considered a treaty under U.S. law.

https://law.duke.edu/ilrt/treaties_3.htm

[MineralMan]

7. Thanks. I'm still not clear on the status of the TPP.

I'll go see what I can find. Very confusing.

[Spazito]

8. I just found there is something called a CEA, Congressional-Executive Agreement...

which would allow a simple majority to pass an agreement as opposed to all agreements submitted to the Senate being considered a treaty and therefore would need a 2/3rds majority vote.

Very confusing indeed. Fascinating as well!

Editing to add:

It appears NAFTA and various FTAs were and are passed using the CEA process. Here's a good pdf link (10 pages) with info on this:

Why Certain Trade Agreements Are Approved
as Congressional-Executive Agreements
Rather Than Treaties

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/97-896.pdf

[Cal Carpenter]

9. Fast track/TPA, which is now on its way to passing

allows the actual TPP to pass with a simple majority.

I am 99% sure of this after some googling - seeing confirmation on WaPo, HuffPo, and others (including various anti-govt RW sites, fwiw).

I was pretty sure about this but wanted to look first for confirmation and I feel pretty confident in calling it fact.