It's not "fondling" - it's sexual assault.

[Solly Mack]

Josh Duggar sexually assaulted his sisters and their friend. Those calling it fondling are attempting to cloak the seriousness of his crime with the language of minimization.

In psychology, the term is a form of denial and rationalization, whereby the guilty downplay the serious nature of an action by use of words that minimize the impact of the heinous act, allowing the perpetrator(s) to feel less guilty.

Well, fuck that shit.

He sexually assaulted them.

[Rex]

1. Which is rape. He raped his sisters while they slept at night.

I am so creeped out right now, I am amazed this got covered up for so long and that TLC must have known about it since 2006!

2006! Almost 10 years!

Let there be no doubt that the Family Research (makes me wonder now what kind of research they do) Council is lead by rapists and criminals.

[Solly Mack]

3. As a victim of child sexual assault, I am beyond disgusted by what I've read

in the report and the way it was handled.

Not to mention the public statements released by the guilty - to include the parents and everyone that knew but kept it a secret.

[Rex]

9. Me too, I am sick to my stomach over it. Those poor girls and what they have endured.

Also really, really pissed off right now. How DARE the parents treat their girls like they were...nothing...

I am Agnostic, but many MANY times I hope there is a literal Hell somewhere...

[leftieNanner]

38. But Rex,

in that loony Quiverful Evangelical community, girls and women ARE nothing. They are nothing but baby carriers and slaves. Looks like they are sex slaves too. These people make me sick.

[Solly Mack]

58. I share your anger.

[historylovr]

2. Thank you!

[Solly Mack]

5. You're welcome.

That damn word (fondling) is pissing me off.

[Mnemosyne]

4. Thank you, Solly! Exactly. Despicable word games.

Good to 'see' you!

[Solly Mack]

6. Thanks, Mnemosyne!

and then calling it a "mistake" and a "sin", like it was some big oopsie that can be cleaned up and just forgotten.

[Mnemosyne]

110. I lost two families over it. I dared to speak out against my step-father and biological father, when

I grew up. No one speaks to me now, though my one half-sister says her father messed with her too, and her son. The other two deny anything ever happened and say I'm a liar.

My half-sister, by my bio father, had a dead-bolt on the inside of her bedroom door. I mentioned it to her once, she has not spoken to me since.

My mother continuously told us to ignore my step-father's constant groping and grabbing. "He doesn't mean anything by it, just ignore him."

I left home at fourteen and still don't regret it at 57, though it's been a really rough road.

[Solly Mack]

111. There was an active campaign to label me a liar.

Didn't matter what I said - I was a liar.

I could have said the sky was blue and by nightfall word would come back around that I lied about the sky.

My mother died and this person actually had his wife and his mistress at the funeral...and thought it funny. He was too full of himself to realize everyone knew what was happening. And his wife, so typical of someone completely under his thumb, got angry with the people who thought it tacky and downright disrespectful.

[Mnemosyne]

112. I lived through their liar campaign also. I knew they were not good people, but was stunned at how

vicious and vindictive they were. Nearly destroyed me, but will never let them win and came out stronger for it. It was devastating to lose everyone at once that I believed loved me, but now I understand it was their denial, not me.

All of them R's, every last one of them.

[Lars39]

7. It is the language of invalidation.

If you can invalidate the experience you can invalidate the victims, and thus minimize the consequences for those responsible for the assault.

And I'll second that 'fuck that shit', if I may.

[Solly Mack]

8. Exactly.

and sadly, the victims are often encouraged to invalidate their own abuse.

[Lars39]

12. I would figure it's a given with that family-cult.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026712374

[Solly Mack]

16. No surprise.

and then there's that cop they "reported" the crimes to...the man in prison for child pornography.

[Lars39]

17. Ugh.

Stern talking to, my patootie. All that mattered to the Duggers was that nothing bad would happen to their male child. They couldn't give a damn about the females.

[malaise]

59. Any bets he was a member of their 'let us prey' movement n/t

[Solly Mack]

62. Could be. I think there's more we don't know and probably never will.

[CoffeeCat]

105. Something that bothers me about this cop...

Jim Bob didn't do anything about his serial molester son for an entire year. The first thing he did was send his son away to do some labor for a friend of theirs who was in the home-remodeling business.

Jim Bob was hiding the problem, clearly.

His son returns--and Jim Bob arranges for his son to meet with this family friend/cop for a stern "talking to."

Jim Bob was hiding and obfuscating. He didn't even get his son proper therapy or treatment! They've said that Josh had counseling, but refinishing cabinets with a family friend is not therapy!

Jim Bob wanted this kept quiet, and I think he knew ahead of time that this cop would do nothing! He didn't file charges with the police, or "go to the police" as others have suggested. Jim Bob wasn't reporting a crime. He had a family friend talk to him--a friend that he could count on NOT to press charges or talk about this.

It's not coincidence that this cop was also a pedophile. There is a bigger, darker story here. You don't have to be an private investigator to know that this family is pathologically screwed up and sick.

I think Jim Bob didn't give a shit about his son getting help. Nor did he give a shit about his four daughters who were serially molested for more than a year, at least. He never got ANY of them help. This is the handiwork of a child abuser cover for HIMSELF. I don't know what happened in that house--emotional abuse, physical abuse or sexual abuse--but teenagers do not sexually act out with four of their sisters--some as young as 5. Maybe some reporter or investigator will start to ask the obvious questions, because I think Josh is just the tip of a very dysfunctional, abusive iceberg.

[Solly Mack]

106. I also believe he knew the cop for what he was and that's why he went to him.

I think the Duggars are a dysfunctional family and as such open to all forms of abuse. So anything at all could have happened.

I think there is far more to the story and I hope the girls, some now women, can finally get help.

I hope they know it is not their shame - it's their brother's. That it was not their fault - it was their brother's (and the parents).

[BlancheSplanchnik]

109. that's what I think too.

There's a reason they were comfortable family friends with a massive deceiver like that.

[Skidmore]

43. Solly, my experience has also been that

those willing to engage in a supportive role to the perpetrator (eg. that cop charged with child porn who "counseled" him) likely have something to hide themselves. As a survivor, I have seen this first hand.

[Solly Mack]

45. I've seen it as well.

And some would rather maintain the illusion of "normal" than admit what is happening. Presenting a certain image was more important than getting a child help.

[RadiationTherapy]

10. We will never know the extent of what happened in the dark.

If he was willing to go to "second base" with his sleeping sisters, there is probably more to the story. One hand for them and one for him, to be vulgar about it.

PR 101 says, "release as few damning details as possible."

[Solly Mack]

15. I fear there is more to the story.

Sadly.

[Dont call me Shirley]

11. gop is overflowing with rapists, molesters and incestors. That's why they promote and protect

each other.

GOP = Grand Order of Perverts

[Solly Mack]

18. They're everywhere, unfortunately

but the GOP does seem to have an abundance of them.

[SidDithers]

13. In March 2002, Duggar had 5 younger sisters...

From their wiki page, their ages at the time were:

12 years old
10 years old
9 years old
8 years old
4 years old



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_Kids_and_Counting

This fucker needs to be in jail.

Sid

[Solly Mack]

14. I agree. He does.

[sybylla]

47. Let's not forget that this "fucker" was a child too.

I don't care what a 14yo does. He does not belong in jail.

Not that I don't appreciate the sentiment. It's his parents who belong in jail for not only not dealing with it appropriately, but also for concealing it until the statute of limitations passed.

[MADem]

53. +1,000,000! nt

[cheyanne]

19. Why do the Duggers still have their other kids?

They confessed to child endangerment, and, as far as I can tell, did not provide any support or trauma therapy for the daughters. Shouldn't Child Protective Services be investigating?

[Solly Mack]

20. I agree. Minor children are still in the home. Josh Duggar still has contact with them.

He has his own daughter, and his parents did nothing to prevent the attacks.

Manual labor is not therapy for sex crimes and you can't pray away the damage caused to the victims.

[sybylla]

48. Yes!

Where is social services on this?

[TNNurse]

101. There should not be minor children

in his or his parent's home.

Why is their a statute of limitations on such a crime?????

[bravenak]

21. They need a visit from children's services to investigate the safety of the children.

If they investigate moms who let kids walk to the park alone, they should really investigate this.

[Solly Mack]

22. They really should...in both homes.

[bravenak]

26. The church too.

Something is up with that pastor. Creeptastic the way he advises the ladies (and girls) to wear their hair just like HE likes it.

[Solly Mack]

30. The entire dynamic of church/home/associations

The father told the church - they did nothing.
The father told a cop - who is now serving time for child pornography (we are supposed to believe that was a fluke)

[bravenak]

34. Oh, yeah, I noticed that this morning.

The cop is doing a bunch of time for sex crimes related to children. It seems like everybody in this little circle is a creep. I feel bad for the women and girls in that group, quiverfulls or whatever they are. It reminds me of the FDLS.

[Solly Mack]

44. It's an oppressive and closed society, where control is handed over

to the men and women are devalued.

It's a script, really, for all kinds of abuse.

[City Lights]

25. Absoslutely! nt

[Heddi]

23. Same with the word "molestation." Sounds so much less yucky than "forced sexual contact of a minor"

I wasn't molested when I was younger. I wasn't fondled, touched, or abused. I wasn't violated.

I was raped.

I was raped with fingers, with penis, with mouth, with words, with images.

Sexual contact was forced on me against my will and without my consent.

Molestation...eh, sounds like my hair was ruffled.

Sexual assault, even, kind of makes it sound like maybe I was dickslaped upside the head.

I was raped. RAPED.

[bravenak]

27. Me too.

I always call it rape. I was not gently fondled. I was raped and it hurt like hell and fucked my life up.
The word molesting makes it seem like it hurts less or matter less. It's bullshit.

[Solly Mack]

28. Thank you. Exactly.

Rape IS rape. Regardless the age or gender or race or sexuality. (or employment)

Sexual assault is the legal term that covers everything up to and including rape. Which is why I used the term. But the term really doesn't say it properly. It doesn't capture the pain and destruction caused. But then neither does the word rape, in my opinion.

[Heddi]

29. I get why you used it, but when the news or some story says "s/he was sexually abused for years"

No. S/he was RAPED for years.

I got why you used it, and you're not trying to whitewash or put a pretty face on an ugly thing.

News, documentary, books...I dislike it when sexual assault is used in those situations.

Like those girls that were kidnapped and held for years in Cleveland. The other week one of them was on Dr Phil and I don't watch Dr Phil but I was passing by and stopped for a second on the channel and he made the comment that she was held and sexually abused for years. What the everloving fuck? She was RAPED. She was a SEXUAL SLAVE. SHe was RAPED AND IMPREGNATED BY THIS MAN. She wasn't assaulted. SHe was tortured and raped, and even really truly rapey rape can't be rape. It has to be infantilized to "assault"

[Solly Mack]

35. I agree, and Thank you!

I was terrorized for 5 years by my attacker. I lived in fear. I was one of the ones that self-mutilated. Really, there is no word that can cover what I went through. What I still go through.

[Heddi]

36. I read through the heavily redacted report -- can the church be on the hook for Mandatory Reporting?

I slogged through that heavily redacted paper. It was kind of confusing, date-wise, but it was mentioned that when all this came out, the family sought counsel at their church.

Are church employees considered mandatory reporters of abuse? I want to know if their cult-church will be on the hook for not doing anything about what they were told.

Also, the dad met up with a friend who was a State Trooper and told HIM about it. That state trooper is now in jail for something to do with child pornography.

I have a feeling this story has legs and it is about to take-off-running

[Solly Mack]

39. Yes.

Arkansas Ark. Code Ann. § 12-18-402 A clergy member shall immediately notify the Child Abuse Hotline if he or she:

• Has reasonable cause to suspect that a child has been subjected to child maltreatment or died as a result of child maltreatment

• Observes a child being subjected to conditions or circumstances that would reasonably result in child maltreatment A clergy member includes a minister, priest, rabbi, accredited Christian Science practitioner, or other similar functionary of a religious organization, or an individual reasonably believed to be so by the person consulting him or her, except to the extent the clergy member:

• Has acquired knowledge of suspected child maltreatment through communications required to be kept confidential pursuant to the religious discipline of the relevant denomination or faith

• Received the knowledge of the suspected child maltreatment from the alleged offender in the context of a statement of admission A privilege or contract shall not prevent a person from reporting child maltreatment when he or she is a mandated reporter and required to report under this section.

Ark. Code Ann. § 12-18-803(b) No privilege, except that between a lawyer and client or between a minister, including a Christian Science practitioner, and a person confessing to or being counseled by the minister, shall prevent anyone from testifying concerning child maltreatment.

Very first link on page. A PDF Mandatory Reporting

The father told church members, so more than just the clergy. No protection for them.


I agree- more to the story. Much more.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

63. Unfortunately

I don't believe that law was in effect back in 2002-03.

[Solly Mack]

65. Now that sucks.

Thanks!

[City Lights]

24. You are correct. Thanks for this post! nt

[Solly Mack]

32. You're welcome.

[brer cat]

31. +1000

Asshole should be in jail.

[Solly Mack]

33. He really should...along with his enabling parents.

[ScreamingMeemie]

37. Between that and hearing "mistake," I've about had it.

[Solly Mack]

40. I know! "Mistake", my ass.

[secondwind]

41. too bad the statute of limitations has passed... he belongs in the slammer

[Solly Mack]

42. He does belong in jail.

The people saying he stopped are his parents - who covered it up, and himself - the guilty.

[H2O Man]

46. Recommended.

Thank you for this.

[Solly Mack]

51. Just a survivor is all.

Words matter.

Thanks, Waterman.

[tiptonic]

49. Pray it away

Just pray it away. Sense I'm sure they talk to God. He will understand. We don't have to. Praise Jesus!!!

[Solly Mack]

50. That is the route they took.

Sick fucks.

[LostOne4Ever]

52. He and those who aided and abetted him belong in jail (nt)

[Solly Mack]

64. I agree.

14 year olds can be predators. His age at the time doesn't prevent that from being true.

[Ilsa]

54. I can't help but wonder how Josh Duggar developed

his propensity to rape. Was he raped? By whom? Someone close, I bet. A SS teacher? Uncle? Father?

Is it part of their teachings to devalue women and girls so that "anything goes" when testosterone kicks in?

[Solly Mack]

56. It's not always true that a predator was once a victim.

Yes, the odds are in favor of it, but it's still not always true. So it could be that he wasn't abused himself. Or it could even be he was physically abused, as that can lead to his being a juvenile sex offender as well.

It could be the environment he grew up in....it could be a combination of physical & sexual abuse and his environment.

I don't know.

http://www.csom.org/pubs/mythsfacts.html

Myth:
"Children who are sexually assaulted will sexually assault others when they grow up."
Fact:
Most sex offenders were not sexually assaulted as children and most children who are sexually assaulted do not sexually assault others.

Early childhood sexual victimization does not automatically lead to sexually aggressive behavior. While sex offenders have higher rates of sexual abuse in their histories than expected in the general population, the majority were not abused. Among adult sex offenders, approximately 30% have been sexually abused. Some types of offenders, such as those who sexually offend against young boys, have still higher rates of child sexual abuse in their histories (Becker and Murphy, 1998).

While past sexual victimization can increase the likelihood of sexually aggressive behavior, most children who were sexually victimized never perpetrate against others.

Myth:
"Juvenile sex offenders typically are victims of child sexual abuse and grow up to be adult sex offenders."
Fact:
Multiple factors, not just sexual victimization as a child, are associated with the development of sexually offending behavior in youth.

Recent studies show that rates of physical and sexual abuse vary widely for adolescent sex offenders; 20 to 50% of these youth experienced physical abuse and approximately 40 to 80% experienced sexual abuse (Hunter and Becker, 1998). While many adolescents who commit sexual offenses have histories of being abused, the majority of these youth do not become adult sex offenders (Becker and Murphy, 1998). Research suggests that the age of onset and number of incidents of abuse, the period of time elapsing between the abuse and its first report, perceptions of how the family responded to the disclosure of abuse, and exposure to domestic violence all are relevant to why some sexually abused youths go on to sexually perpetrate while others do not (Hunter and Figueredo, in press).

Characteristics of juvenile sex offenders:
• Juvenile sex offenders are typically between the ages of 13 and 17.
• They are generally male.
• 30-60% exhibit learning disabilities and academic dysfunction.
• Up to 80% have a diagnosable psychiatric disorder.
• Many have difficulties with impulse control and judgment.
• 20-50% have histories of physical abuse.
• 40-80% have histories of sexual abuse.

[Dont call me Shirley]

66. Thank you for this Solly Mack...

[Solly Mack]

67. You're welcome.

If I were just speculating, then I would have to say that I wouldn't be surprised to learn he was physically or sexually abused and that the authoritarian emphasis on suppressing normal developing sexuality (questions, masturbation, curiosity, etc..) played a factor.

Physical and emotional/verbal abuse being very likely in a family structure that pushes male dominance and female submission. Sexual abuse, as well, although less so than physical/emotional. Wouldn't surprise me if both parents engaged in some form of abuse. With a dominant parent, the other parent can become childlike, lashing out at someone weaker in order to dominate them. Verbal abuse would accomplish this.

I think the Duggars are a dysfunctional family and as such are open to all manner of abuses.

Josh Duggar should have been placed in a juvenile detention facility for treatment. Completely removed from his victims and potential future victims. He needs to be investigated now. His cognitive distortions, such as his minimization of his actions, as evidenced by the wording of his apology, shows he is still in denial about what he did. That's not a good sign. His parents and wife also display cognitive distortions.

I'm no expert though, so...

[Dont call me Shirley]

68. I suspect church elders encourage this type of behavior with boys, it's a way of life for them

Abuse is the way of the gop, abuse is a way of these religions such as the Duggars Dominionist and Baptist cults. The two merged in 1980, gop and fundamentalist religions.

[Solly Mack]

70. The marriage of religion and politics happened a long time ago when

those in charge saw a way to consolidate power through the merger of a person's spiritual beliefs and their willingness to yield to an authority that seemed to share those beliefs.

Even when people feared the rolling thunder as the unknown power whose loud claps sent them into hiding, the leaders of the clans/tribes were the ones who knew to explain away the thunder as an unseen force that was displeased with the people's behavior - and only Glubnik can save them. I joke, of course....but it's an old, old marriage.

The GOP use it well, unfortunately, and it has caused untold harm in terms of people's lives.

[Dont call me Shirley]

71. Very true.

In recent history, Paul Weyrich creator of ALEC and his Dominionist beliefs:

"How the Dominionists Are Succeeding in Their Quest for National Control and World Power

By Katherine Yurica

September 14, 2004

Americans and the main-stream media have been very slow in catching on to the fact that we are in a war-a war that is cultural, religious and political. One document not mentioned in The Despoiling of America is the closeted manual that reveals how the right wing in American politics can get and keep power. It was created under the tutelage of Paul Weyrich , the man who founded the Free Congress Foundation. Conservative leaders consider Weyrich to be the "most powerful man in American politics today." There is no question of his immense influence in conservative circles. He is also considered the founder of the Heritage Foundation , a conservative think tank made possible with funding from Joseph Coors and Richard Mellon-Scaife. Weyrich served as the Founding President from 1973-1974.

To get a sense of how revolutionary the political fight for power in the U.S. is, we need to look at a few quotes from what has been dubbed, "Paul Weyrich's Teaching Manual," the Free Congress Foundation's strategic plan on how to gain control of the government of the U.S. Written by Eric Heubeck, and titled, "The Integration of Theory and Practice: A Program for the New Traditionalist Movement," the document is no longer available at the Free Congress Foundation's website for obvious reasons. But excerpts are published at the Yurica Report . The excerpts explain why the Dominionists are winning; the tactics they endorse are sheer Machiavellian:

I have paraphrased the four immoral principles of the Dominionist movement as the following:

1) Falsehoods are not only acceptable, they are a necessity. The corollary is: The masses will accept any lie if it is spoken with vigor, energy and dedication.

2) It is necessary to be cast under the cloak of "goodness" whereas all opponents and their ideas must be cast as "evil."

3) Complete destruction of every opponent must be accomplished through unrelenting personal attacks.

4) The creation of the appearance of overwhelming power and brutality is necessary in order to destroy the will of opponents to launch opposition of any kind."

http://www.theocracywatch.org/yurica_weyrich_manual.htm

[Solly Mack]

73. I was glad when that man died.

And I don't feel bad about that at all.

He died much too late.

[Dont call me Shirley]

74. The vile damage he created just continues use to grow.

[Solly Mack]

75. Yep. It sure does.

[LibDemAlways]

97. The Duggars subjected their small children back

then to something called "blanket training" for the purpose of learning to be obedient. Not kidding. This involved placing the child on a blanket on the floor and telling him or her to stay put. If the child ventured off the blanket, a spanking followed. Michelle Duggar has admitted doing this. Not sure how young her children were when this started, but the sadists behind the practice seem to think 6 months is a good age.

This is indicative of the kind of shit those kids grew up with. Abusive, definitely.

[Solly Mack]

99. That is abusive. Children explore. They need to explore.

So they would leave the blanket. Which means a spanking was assured.

[LibDemAlways]

100. The Duggars followed the recommendations

of a sadistic couple , the Pearls, who wrote a manual called To Train Up a Child which advocates hitting children with PVC pipe and basically beating them physically and psychologically into submission. Horrific stuff.

[libdem4life]

55. More specifically, it's incest. The parents are responsible, IMO.

And TLC...how could they have NOT have known? That makes them at the very least, accessories.

[Solly Mack]

57. According to news stories rumors circulated for years...so....

I also don't believe the rumors never reached TLC.

[libdem4life]

60. I just literally sent them a message on their website expressing my outrage. At least Oprah

cancelled their appearance...at the last minute, apparently. How hard that must have been for her watching them all these years.

[Solly Mack]

61. I fired off an email ysterday.

Yeah, that had to hit Oprah hard.

[SoCalDem]

69. Don't you also gag when the articles say "VERY YOUNG TEENAGER"

This sort if thing starts at puberty and NEVER ENDS.. they may use will power/fear to slow it down or even stop for a while, but the impulse is always with them..

It's always really about the age differential.. a 14,15,16 yr old "boy" going after a 5, 6, 7 yr old girl is sexual assault.. ad if it's with a relative it's always incest..regardless of the age..

It may or may not be assault if the boy is 16, 17 and the girl is 13 or 14, because these days parents permit very young girls to date, and when they start dating they usually want to date "older boys"....and dating usually leads to sex..

Back in the "olden days" most girls did not have permission to date until they were 16, and since most of the boys they had contact with were 18 or under, it was a fairer situation for everyone...but somewhere along the line, dating changed

[Solly Mack]

72. Neither his age nor his own possible victimization excuses his actions.

Sex offenders always think about what they will do before they do it. Even when it's a crime of opportunity, they are still acting on a scenario they have thought about before. (Grabbing someone off the street, dark alleys, catching someone alone in their bedroom or laundry room)

Never, not once, were they just strolling along and the decision to rape for the first time just pop into their heads out of no where. They've already thought about rape before and now see an opportunity.

Josh Duggar was sneaking around at night and was caught coming out of his sister's bedroom. He thought about it prior to the act.

Actually, some people "molest" once and never do it again. However, why on earth would anyone trust that person again? It really depends on their individual pathology whether or not they continue the assaults. Duggar's case shows a pattern of assaults. He was caught once (someone told on him) and then many months later he did it again and was caught red-handed, so to speak. Turns out he did it multiple times with multiple girls. He didn't stop - and I'm not of the mind that a few weeks of manual labor cured him of anything.

[Jamastiene]

76. Well said.

I'm sick of people minimizing what happens to little girls. They never do that when it is little boys. They get outraged if little boys are sexually assaulted, and rightly so, but when little girls are sexually assaulted, it, all too often, gets minimized. There should be outrage whether it is a little boy or a little girl that gets sexually assaulted.

[Solly Mack]

94. To some, women are just receptacles, so sexual assault

- to their thinking - becomes another part of being a woman. Something we're supposed to expect and that isn't all that bad. You know, our lot in life and all that.

I've actually heard it explained that way before.

[Heidi]

77. Kick, kick, kick!

[Kalidurga]

78. It's rape

he used force on much younger girls and most of them were his sisters. This family is so sick it's disgusting. How can anyone not protect their girls from a rapist even if that rapist is their son. I would have called the police and not in a have a nice conversation with a friendly police officer that I know. I would be screaming at them to take him away lock him up and throw away the key. I might calm down at some point, but I doubt it. I wouldn't be one of those supportive parents and I don't care if that makes me a bad person or not, my first duty is to protect my children from predators even if the predator is one of my other children.

[davidpdx]

79. I agree

Any time the media uses words to minimize what was done to the victim the need to be called on it.

Out of curiosity which networks were doing that?

I have to wonder if it was on purpose to minimize the right-wing backlash the media knew they'd get if they reported on it.

[Solly Mack]

81. Primarily news articles from around the web.

Some would use both words - fondle and assault. But the word "fondle" was pissing me off to no end.

I caught fragments of news shows and heard the word too.

And then the family itself, and their supporters.

[we can do it]

80. Yes. And I do not feel sorry for the bastard.

[Solly Mack]

82. I don't either.

Maybe if I thought he truly felt the damage he caused, but I just don't think he does.

[Hepburn]

83. "Nineteen kids and Counting" -- takes on a whole new meaning

Maybe: "All in the Family?"

What a smuck -- it was just "fondling." Gag me...molestation IS molestation. Sexual assault IS sexual assault. So much for "family values."

[Solly Mack]

89. I really do think the victim number is higher than 5.

And I don't believe he stopped after his "counseling" (manual labor).

[Hepburn]

95. Considering his family helped him hide his "hobby"

I have to assume it is worse than has been admitted.

[libdem4life]

84. If the supposedly clueless GOP does not know what rape is yet, incest must be a real mental stretch.

I can't take credit, but whoever came up with Groping Other People...good description.

[Solly Mack]

90. Oh, they seem to think it's OK if you say you're sorry.

Because, you know, it was the victim's fault anyway.

[libdem4life]

96. Yes, that's the childish, non-responsible view of many. But pretty sure there are going to be some

real adults enter this situation. Too many high-profile enablers...photos and all. That's what really sinks the cover-up...the photos and the letters and now the admission. That family is going to get help, likely whether they want it at all. Just the fact that all the school age kids will likely have to go to public school. And the Middle School/High School aged are really going to have a hard time. They will begin to see what "normal" is and how it deviates from their lives. That is going to be hard on everyone. Such adorable, innocent children.

[Solly Mack]

98. I really do hope protective services step in and help - actually help.

[libdem4life]

102. As a former educator of young children, once they are in the school system, they will get help.

Not only will it be obvious who they are (poor things), the teachers will be watching. I do not envy the educational system which they will enter, either. Or the parents whose kids are in their classes...I have seen situations where that is problematic.

Even though Oprah wasn't professionally bound to report the situation, school personnel are required and they work closely with Protective Services and Law Enforcement, if necessary.

And I don't want this to be about homeschooling, as tempting as that may be. I have two nieces who have home schooled 5 children each. Had I had more than one, I might have, as well, as they had no gifted programs in our district.

They are outstanding educationally, work in the community and church, are on various "teams" and they travel extensively. One is for religious reasons, the other because her kids are exceptionally bright and the public schools would have dumbed them down. She did have a "real" Home School teacher, as I would have, that did testing and checked in and to help her with materials, etc. Those who are grown...most of them, are highly functioning members of society.

[Major Nikon]

85. ...

[Solly Mack]

91. Precisely.

It's OK to sexually assault your sisters...as long as you're not gay.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

86. Just proves Conservativism is another cult...

This guy was like a priest using the Family Research Institute to provide cover for himself.

I wonder if he's going to claim he was possessed by Liberals.

[Solly Mack]

92. He's still being shielded and protected with people tryng to blame

everyone but him for his crimes.

And, really, the word crime doesn't cover the horrible thing he did.

[heaven05]

87. I second that!!!!!

[Hepburn]

88. OMG...........the reports on Josh MOLESTING young girls goes back years and years!!!!

http://www.etonline.com/news/165063_josh_duggar_molestation_allegations_a_timeline_of_events/

First reports to his father -- 2002! And Daddy Duggar did NOTHING while his child abuser son kept on keeping on!

[Solly Mack]

93. Yep. Went on for another 9 months or so

and then they only sent him off to do manual labor as a form of "counseling". They also told a cop who enjoyed child porn & went to prison for it....which lets you know they were really just swapping stories.

Yeah...that helped.

[Solly Mack]

104. Yes, the word is used under the heading of sexual assault.

So let's call it what it is - sexual assault.

I fondle my dog, btw. As fondle also means to touch lovingly. You really think he was touching his sisters lovingly? Really?

[murielm99]

107. I know of two people who were arrested and found guilty

of these crimes. One was an adult. He went to jail briefly for what the Duggars are calling fondling. He was sentenced to probation and counseling. He lost his family over this. He stays away from girls who are thirteen or fourteen, and he has never reoffended.

The other one was more like the Duggar's situation. The boy, who was fourteen, was forcing his sister, thirteen, to have sex. I don't know the extent of what they were doing. It could have included intercourse, or maybe it was fondling alone. It is still sexual assault!

When the parents found out, he was put in a residential treatment center. He never lived at home again while his sister lived there. Not many people in our community knew about it. I did, and so did my closest friend. I am not sure why we knew. It was 1962, and I don't remember. This family did something about it, even though it hurt them and fractured their family forever. Also, they may have had the resources. They were not rich, but they figured out some way to provide treatment for both of their children. They did not blame their daughter!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

108. K and fucking R. times a trillion

I am SO FUCKING SICK of female personhood minimized, devalued, argued over and treated as an affront to male dominance.