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seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
Sun May 24, 2015, 01:17 AM May 2015

dog people. i have an urgent question. submissive urination. the dog started it out of the blue,

yesterday, when my oldest came home from university.

it has been 24 hours, and lots of clean up later, and we do not get it.

the dog is 2 yrs old. corgey/pomeranian. real cushy life, and environment. not high excitement, no anger, no negative environment. has a doggie door and never urinates in the house. he does get overly excited when people come over. and he has urinated a couple times when first seeing a couple of the nephews a couple times. but after that, he does not do it and calms down and is fine.

my oldest sees him in the summer and christmas breaks and we have had no problems. he did it when son first came home last night, then that was it. but did it a number of times this morning, and turns on his back and pees. the dog took a break from that behavior all afternoon and started it back up tonight. nothing happened out of the ordinary.

my son has tried everything to calm and assure the dog. but man... we are scared to death, if son even looks at the dog, he is gonna start peeing.

and no. my son has not done anything to hurt the dog, scare the dog.

any reasons why? any suggestions on how to nip this one.?



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dog people. i have an urgent question. submissive urination. the dog started it out of the blue, (Original Post) seabeyond May 2015 OP
He should ignore the dog until the dog is used to him again. They pee to say "You're the boss." MADem May 2015 #1
i did google. but this is sounding excellent. i will go back to reading. thank you for the link. nt seabeyond May 2015 #3
Anytime. I had a dog with this issue--the 'ignoring' trick is hard to do but it works. MADem May 2015 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author seabeyond May 2015 #5
better than submissive defecation like so many of our politicians do ....!!!!! MindMover May 2015 #2
My dog does the same MaggieD May 2015 #4
Awww shenmue May 2015 #6
go to the vet, make sure there is no metabolic problem irisblue May 2015 #7
Hmmm, I'd start by relaxing about it and asking your son to treat the dog normally. LeftyMom May 2015 #8
you and yours.... seabeyond May 2015 #10
Dogs are weird. LeftyMom May 2015 #11
excellent. seabeyond May 2015 #12
first, take the dog to the vet TorchTheWitch May 2015 #13
Might be some sort of known breed-specific issue, too. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #14
Have the vet check him for a UTI. newfie11 May 2015 #15
It could be unrelated to your son Ms. Yertle May 2015 #16
I had a dog that used to do that Major Nikon May 2015 #17

MADem

(135,425 posts)
1. He should ignore the dog until the dog is used to him again. They pee to say "You're the boss."
Sun May 24, 2015, 01:22 AM
May 2015

Might help to put the dog out frequently so there's not much pee to be had.

Cesar has some tips for you: http://www.cesarsway.com/dog-care/housebreaking/15-tips-to-get-rid-of-submissive-urination%20

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
3. i did google. but this is sounding excellent. i will go back to reading. thank you for the link. nt
Sun May 24, 2015, 01:26 AM
May 2015

MADem

(135,425 posts)
9. Anytime. I had a dog with this issue--the 'ignoring' trick is hard to do but it works.
Sun May 24, 2015, 01:36 AM
May 2015

Best of luck.

Response to MADem (Reply #1)

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
4. My dog does the same
Sun May 24, 2015, 01:29 AM
May 2015

We have pretty much solved it by scooping her up and taking her out when someone comes in. Preferably with the visitor so she can't greet them outdoors while she pees. Mostly it's tight friends and family visiting so they don't mind doing it.

irisblue

(32,929 posts)
7. go to the vet, make sure there is no metabolic problem
Sun May 24, 2015, 01:33 AM
May 2015

geez I hope your dog & you figure this out soon

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
8. Hmmm, I'd start by relaxing about it and asking your son to treat the dog normally.
Sun May 24, 2015, 01:35 AM
May 2015

Quite possibly it'll clear up on it's own as your dog redetermines his role in the household while your son is home. Dogs are weird about hierarchy, once he figures out that your son isn't the new boss of the house he'll probably settle down.

General advice about the submissive urination: You may also want to make a point of walking him or playing with him enough to really wear him out before stressful events like visitors coming over, just so that he's too tired to really get worked up. It might help, and it can't hurt. Honestly, more activity is the solution to more dog problems than not. Some people also find that giving the dog a "job" to do during problematic situations, usually carrying a weighted vest, allows the dog to focus on the job and not on the thing that makes them anxious.

But in the long term if your dog has an anxiety issue- and the ongoing submissive urination sounds like he might- then you may want to talk to your vet about using a thundershirt during stressful moments or anti-anxiety medication. But I'd do more walks and maybe a group obedience class before I pursued that option, personally.

And obviously if his normal urinary behavior changes or you see any signs of a UTI, take him straight to the vet. But this doesn't sound like a medical issue.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
10. you and yours....
Sun May 24, 2015, 01:40 AM
May 2015

is who i wanted to hear from. thank you lefty. it is very interesting and as much as anything we want to understand. we have done reading. so thank you for your thorough answer.

Quite possibly it'll clear up on it's own as your dog redetermines his role in the household while your son is home. Dogs are weird about hierarchy, once he figures out that your son isn't the new boss of the house he'll probably settle down.


the way it has manifested in the last 24 hours, we were curious if this was it. but clearly i am at the top of the hierarchy and we were curious about the anxiousness with son coming into the mix.

thank you for the info. tonight, i am mostly just keeping him close at hand and son is elsewhere in the house.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
11. Dogs are weird.
Sun May 24, 2015, 01:48 AM
May 2015

This sounds weird but it might help for the dog to see your son do something you tell him to, or bring you something, or something that in the dog's brain clearly establishes that you're still in charge.

If you think about it, it's a weird and anxiety-producing situation if a new person comes in at work and you're not totally clear where they fall on the organizational chart. Imagine how that is for a dog- no verbal capacity to figure it out, a brain the size of a lemon, and everybody involved is several times his size.

No wonder he's anxious!

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
12. excellent.
Sun May 24, 2015, 01:50 AM
May 2015

both my son and i like to figure out this stuff and explore. and we are always willing to experiment and watch. this is excellent. i think we will calm down tonight and son and i will do it tomorrow.

he really has done a lot of reading on dogs. the intensity of them watching us, figuring us out and all. so we get that part.

thank you so much. we will give it a try. who knows.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
13. first, take the dog to the vet
Sun May 24, 2015, 03:15 AM
May 2015

This very well could be a physical problem and likely is since it just started happening and is happening several times a day.

I've never heard of excitement pee in an adult dog. This is fairly common with puppies because they aren't yet old enough to be able to always control their bladder and particularly when they are overly excited. Adult dogs have extraordinary bladder control - FAR more than us bladder-that-must-be-the-size-of-a-pea humans. It isn't normal for an adult dog to have excitement bladder control issues, and it just isn't something that I can see would happen overnight several times a day without some underlying physical problem.

In the meantime, have the dog empty their bladder completely before they are in a situation in the house with someone that causes them excitement and thus peeing. Have anyone that meets/greets the dog who makes him excited do it outdoors (wearing a raincoat! haha!) until the dog has calmed down.

Don't have your son or anyone else that seems to trigger the excitement peeing try to physically calm the dog. IGNORING the dog is what will make him calm down though at first this might take awhile. Paying MORE attention to the dog will just rev up the excitement meter. Attention for a dog is a REWARD for desirable behavior, so you never want to give attention to a dog that is NOT in a calm state. Giving the dog attention ONLY when they are in a calm state teaches the dog that if they are calm they will get the attention they find desirable and that when they behave like a nut they don't get the attention they find desirable. Very quickly the dog figure this out and knock off excitable behavior. Like anything else with teaching a dog what behavior is wanted at any particular time consistency is absolutely key, and that it takes many repetitions (about 30 or more) before the dog really learns what specific behavior is wanted when told or at specific times or instances.

And of course, all of this will backfire if the person wanting the dog to be calm is not feeling calm and relaxed themselves. Dogs react to what us humans interacting with them are feeling and can detect what we feel even when we don't realize it ourselves. It does no good to try to calm a dog when we aren't feeling calm ourselves. Instead of calming down the dog will react to our pent of feelings and keep acting out which of course creates a cycle of higher frustration (feelings) on our own part and thus higher excitement/misbehavior on the dog's part. And that's the kind of thing that makes us think "Oh for crying out LOUD, what the hell is wrong with this %&*@^ dog!" It's not the dog messing up, it's us though we tend to get stuck trying to figure that all out and what in the world to do about it.

If the dog is particularly reacting to the presence of your son, try this: instead of your son going and giving the dog attention especially when the dog is in an excited state, have the dog outside and your son somewhere away from any physical interacting with the dog while the dog can see him and know he's there. Have your son completely ignore the dog whatever the dog is doing while concentrating on being calm and relaxed himself. Have a chat with him or snack or whatever to distract his own interest in the dog and what it's doing. Eventually the dog will give up the excitement and calm down AS LONG AS you and your son and anyone else around is feeling calm and relaxed though it may take a long time because as of now the dog has learned that when he acts like an excited nut he gets the attention that he wants, and the purpose is to reverse that.

Only when the dog is calm and your son is calm have your son go into the yard or where ever the dog is but continue to totally ignore the dog. The dog can watch him, sniff him, walk around him in circles, etc., but only when the dog is calm again by your son's physical presence can your son then give the dog attention and ONLY calm and relaxed attention. The SECOND the dog starts to show excitement again, your son has to immediately stop giving the dog attention and go back to ignoring the dog. This will start the dog figuring out that he only gets the attention that he wants from your son when he behaves in a calm manner which is the opposite of what has been going on before and what he's learned.

However long it takes is how long it takes. The first few times may take a LONG time to get to the point where your son can give the dog calm attention while the dog remains calm himself. Don't give up or give in. EVERY time the dog begins to show excitement with your son, your son has to calmly and immediately withdraw all attention... don't look at the dog, don't touch the dog, don't talk to the dog - completely ignore the dog until he is calm again.

Dogs are VERY clever in figuring out behavior that gets them what they want even when that behavior is not what we want but we don't know how to change it or even how it came about in the first place. So far the dog has learned that he gets the attention he wants from your son when he behaves overly excited to the point that he's peeing on himself and anything else in the vicinity of his tinkle stream (though the sudden peeing is likely an underlying physical issue). Unfortunately, us humans don't always know what it is we're doing wrong that is causing our dogs to act in what we feel are inexplicable ways. Very often it's a hell of a lot easier for other people to see what the problem is than we can ourselves because we're the ones frustrated, confused, pissed off, or whatever that here's this problem with the dog and we don't know why or what to do about it, and dammit, the dog never did this crap before and AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!! We've probably all been there and done that many a time. LOL!

If this is a male dog, has he been neutered? If he hasn't been neutered this might also be a marking issue though I really doubt it. Unneutered males can often just piss all over the place constantly and particularly if there is a female in heat in the area that they are able to detect. If your dog is an intact male is it possible that your son in particular is carrying the delectable odor of a female in heat on his clothing or skin? However, even an adult unneutered male that is marking shouldn't be peeing on themselves and not peeing in copious amounts. Normally when intact males mark they lift their leg and let loose just a little bit of pee but they do it all the time on damn near everything inside and outside though plenty of intact males never mark at all at least not indoors. I also think the level of marking has a lot to do with the vicinity of intact females especially one in heat though you may not know that one is around that the dog can detect... sometimes it seems that intact males can detect a female in heat half a world away! I REALLY don't think this is marking behavior though, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

Could you describe the level of excitement the dog experiences when he has this peeing issue? Is he moderately excited or absolutely flying out of his skin excited? Does he only have this excitement peeing problem with your son or is it your son in particular that causes the most excitement and thus the most peeing? Did the peeing suddenly start with the appearance of your son in particular? Is the dog much more exited by your son's presence than anyone else's? Does he do the excitement peeing with other people that aren't your son or does he only do it when a guest is around that causes him to be excited?

These are all things you'll want to tell your vet to help try and diagnose the problem whether it's a physical problem, emotional problem or a combination of both. It's always best to give the vet as much detailed information as possible - you never know when a little tidbit of information might be the lightbulb that goes off for the vet to pinpoint what is likely wrong.

First things first though, call the vet and explain the problem as detailed as possible. Sometimes just a phone call will have the vet knowing what the problem likely is. Still, take the dog to the vet for an exam anyway since there very well likely is some underlying physical problem where any excitement at all causes the dog to not be able to hold back his urine. Since this peeing problem has happened very suddenly and several times a day I'm really thinking there is some kind of physical problem going on where any excitement at all causes the dog to not be able to physically hold his urine... maybe a urinary tract infection or the beginnings of one.

Best of luck, and I hope you can get this problem resolved. Flying pee is just no fun at all.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
14. Might be some sort of known breed-specific issue, too.
Sun May 24, 2015, 03:23 AM
May 2015

I do know little dogs often have a lot of genetic susceptibilities. I'd check with the vet, see what they think.

Ms. Yertle

(466 posts)
16. It could be unrelated to your son
Sun May 24, 2015, 09:49 AM
May 2015

If he has a doggie door, maybe something happened when he was out in the yard. If whatever happened is associated in the dog's mind with your son's arrival, this may be the cause. If your dog is treat motivated, have your son liberally offer treats so that the association with your son becomes something overwhelmingly wonderful!

Major Nikon

(36,818 posts)
17. I had a dog that used to do that
Sun May 24, 2015, 11:41 AM
May 2015

She was an SPCA dog that we rescued when she was about 1 yr old. I have no idea if she was mistreated or not, but I suspect her previous owners gave her up because of it. She tended to do it more around me than with the wife and kids, so I'm not sure if she was mistreated by a man, or perhaps she just assumed I was the alpha dog.

At any rate I learned not to come up to her, but rather let her come to me. If I was passing anywhere near her I would act as if she wasn't there. I would lay on the floor on my back and let her come over which is a sign of submission for dogs. She would come over and try to lick my face and was much more relaxed and wouldn't pee. Eventually she just stopped doing it. She died about 3-4 years ago at the ripe old age of 17 and the whole family still misses her.

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