How can you be both for social justice and pro death penalty?

[cali]

The dp is one of the most racist institutions in our country.land there is no way to rid it of racism.


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/race-and-death-penalty

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/07/09/opinion/09dow.html?referrer=

[aikoaiko]

2. If there can't be social justice with the DP (or justice system in general), with its..

...highly structured due process, review, and accountability, then can there be social justice in any institution?

[Bjorn Against]

3. Since when was there accountability for the executioners?

[aikoaiko]

5. Do you mean the people who pushed the buttons, pulled the lever, or threw the switch?

They did their jobs well. What accountability do want from them?

However due process is reviewable and sometimes agents of the state have been held accountable for wrong doing in DP cases.

[Bjorn Against]

7. I want the law to be changed so that pushing that button is considered murder

Because that is exactly what it is, premeditated murder.

[aikoaiko]

8. Well, when such a law is passed, then people who push the button will be...

...held accountable. Have there been many cases where the death penalty was outlawed, but prisoners were still placed in the state's mechanisms of death by state agents and executed anyway?

[Bjorn Against]

9. Not that I am aware of, which is exactly why the death penalty needs to be outlawed

[cali]

4. i strongly suggest reading the linked articles

Last edited Sun May 31, 2015, 07:31 AM - Edit history (1)

Your response makes no sense. None.

[aikoaiko]

6. The what? Gotta link?

[NuclearDem]

10. Good one.

Oh shit, you're serious...

[Telcontar]

11. I like Gandalf's answer

There are many who deserve death, but also many who deserve life. You can't grant life, so dint be so hasty wanting to grant death.

Words to that effect.

[cali]

12. kick

[joshcryer]

13. Where does this come from?

WTF.

[cali]

14. it's a question

The death penalty is applied to AAs at a rate almost double the rate it is applied to whites. A black person who murders a white person is over 4x as likely to get the dp as a white person murdering a black person. there is exactly zero doubt that the dp is one of the most racist institutions in this country.

Yes,this has to do with HRC. She is, as On The Issues puts it, a long time advocate for.the dp. We've discussed, at length here, whether or not Sanders cares enough about the issues facing the black community. This is one such issue. Only 34% (as of 2011) of African Americans support the death penalty.

[joshcryer]

15. Oh.

That again.

Hillary Clinton follows the polls. That should not be an indictment on those who support social justice.

[Fumesucker]

16. It's pointing out that some candidates seem to be more aligned with social justice than others

I haven't seen anywhere candidate C beats candidate B in a particular social justice measure but now we find one where candidate B beats candidate C.

If one were keeping score that is.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

17. You might just as well say "how can you be both for social justice and prison sentences or fines?"

There's a very simple test that should be applied to any argument that purports to show that the death penalty is wrong: if this argument worked, would it also imply that imprisoning and fining people was also wrong? If so, you can be confident that something is wrong with the argument, and you just have to work out what.

This argument fails that test. Yes, at present, the application of the death penalty in the USA is far from race-neutral. But exactly the same is true of prison sentences. And there's no reason to think that fixing the former would be any easier or harder than fixing the latter, if there was the political will to do it.

So unless you genuinely oppose imprisoning people - not just think that the USA locks up too many people (which it certainly does) but oppose imprisonment, and fines, in all cases, on general principles, even for murderers and rapists - then this argument doesn't work against the DP either.

The only valid arguments against the death penalty are ones that *don't* also apply to imprisonment - vis, it's irreversible if you get it wrong, and the cost/benefit ratio is lower.