General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOne fucking witness says that Hillary participated with the errrr Family.
One fucking witness!
She's not on the membership list---nothing.
Oh but here it comes---the Anti-Hillary zombies smell fresh meat and they gonna eat.
Response to trumad (Original post)
Post removed
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)peecoolyour
(336 posts)Neither would Bernie.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)bowens43
(16,064 posts)There is nothing she will not do to become president....and if she does, god help us.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)no sincerity about THAT Foundation at all!
By the way....CGI...88% to programs...12% overhead!
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Really?
Quackers
(2,256 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)According to Catholic doctrine for a person to become a saint all he or she has to do is do good works and perform two miracles. She has already performed many good works. I had terrible flatulence, turned on the television and she was on, and it went away. That's one miracle...
So St. Hillary is only one miracle from sainthood or she is already there.
Quackers
(2,256 posts)to who she was but now thanks to her actions, I finally see how corrupt she is. Does that count as a miracle?
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)which is as good a debunking as any I've seen on DU
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5330258
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)that only one witness claim she was involved with The Fellowship?
trumad
(41,692 posts)Find the part that says Nelson's wife said she was in a cell with her.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)with many politicians across the spectrum attending.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/us/politics/04prayer.html?_r=0
For more than 50 years, the National Prayer Breakfast has served as a prime networking event in Washington, bringing together the president, members of Congress, foreign diplomats and thousands of religious, business and military leaders for scrambled eggs and supplication.
Usually, the annual event passes with little notice. But this year, an ethics group in Washington has asked President Obama and Congressional leaders to stay away from the breakfast, on Thursday. Religious and gay rights groups have organized competing prayer events in 17 cities, and protesters are picketing in Washington and Boston.
The objections are focused on the sponsor of the breakfast, a secretive evangelical Christian network called The Fellowship, also known as The Family, and accusations that it has ties to legislation in Uganda that calls for the imprisonment and execution of homosexuals.
snip
A White House official said that Mr. Obama, like each president since Dwight D. Eisenhower, planned to attend the breakfast. Michelle Obama, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, and other cabinet members will also attend. The president will deliver remarks about the importance of an openness to compromise, the official said.
snip
The breakfast, which usually features a prominent keynote speaker (past ones have included Bono, Mother Teresa and former Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain), is only the most visible in several days of gatherings where the Familys networking takes place in smaller groups. There are separate meetings for African politicians, military leaders, business people and media professionals, to name a few.
snip
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)IMO it's best to accept that she participated on SOME level
because she did.
HOWEVER, Jimmy Carter also associated with this group.
And the also held (still hold) prayer breakfasts in Washington so a lot of politicians across the spectrum have met with this group.
Including Michelle and Barack Obama.
It's sort of like Reverend Moon
so many politicians got sucked into his net.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Reverend Moon was crowned king in front of them...and they DID participate in that
cali
(114,904 posts)ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)We've sunk to this crap?
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)I'm not good at snark.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)DU more than anything else. It's a time waster for bored people on the internet.
RadiationTherapy
(5,818 posts)From 2007:
"Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer.""
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_%28Christian_organization%29
trumad
(41,692 posts)Post 33: where the author emphatically states Hillary IS NOT nor has she ever been a member of THE FAMILY:
Here is what I've gathered and here is what is printed in the book.
The author states Clinton is, indeed, religious. Big surprise, right?
The first time Sharlet uses The Reverend Rob Schenck, the founder of a ministry called Faith and Action in the Nations Capitala knockoff of the Family, the theological equivalent of fake Gucci - as a source:
For instance, says Schenck, Senators Sam Brownback and Hillary Clinton, partners in prayer at Coes weekly Senate Prayer Breakfast. The Family is dedicated to spiritual war, not the intramural combat of party politics, Schenck explained. Coe doesnt have a systematic theology, he has a vision of power. Not just to come, but as it exists. Theyre into living with what is, said Schenck. But you dont want to alienate them, you dont want to antagonize them. You need them as your friends. Even Hillary will need them. They keep a sort of cultural homeostasis in Washington. Washington right now is a town where if youre going to be powerful, you need religion. Thats just the way its done.
The author then explicitly states (and there really is no room for interpretation here):
Hillary may well be Gods beautiful child, (my note: a term Sam Brownback calls people like Paul Wellstone, Ted Kennedy and, yes, Hillary Clinton) but shes not a member of Coes Family. Rather, Id been told at Ivanwald, shes a friend, less elect then a member, but more chosen than the rest of us. A fellow traveler but not a sister. Her goals are not their goals; but when on occasion they coincide, Hillary and the Family can work together.
And there you have it, folks. The most damning passage linking Hillary to 'The Family.' The rest of the book's commentary on Clinton is, in my opinion, a judgmental assault on Hillary for being religious, ambitious and being willing to mix the two. If you want to knock her for that, be my guest, but that is a technique many politicians (yes, even liberal ones) have used to great success.
But who else is mentioned in the book as a 'friend' of The Family? Al Gore (page 259)
---------------------------
Post 37: Where a DUer provided a link to the actual book for all to read PLUS gives further information on the chapter about Hillary Clinton:
If you continue that chapter he does go on to say she's a "Cold Warrior," someone who evokes Cold War mythology, but even then that's not a big deal, she aged in that time, it makes sense. And later on he says she was distancing herself from her feminism yet we know that is objectively false with her latest speaking tours, where she has called for people to call her a feminist.
When I said "explicitly" I meant it. There's really no room for interpretation. Sharlet never said what people claim he said at all.
--------------------------------
Post 61: Where a DUer points out her 'association' with them ended in 2001 .
--------------------------------
Post 40: Where a DUer still clings to the now debunked belief she was a member of the family by quoting the same MotherJones article that incorrectly (intentionally or unintentionally) interprets a passage in Hillary book, Living History.
Throughout her time at the White House, Clinton writes in Living History, she took solace from "daily scriptures" sent to her by her Fellowship prayer cell, along with Coe's assurances that she was right where God wanted her. (Clinton's sense of divine guidance has been noted by others: Bishop Richard Wilke, who presided over the United Methodist Church of Arkansas during her years in Little Rock, told us, "If I asked Hillary, 'What does the Lord want you to do?' she would say, 'I think I'm called by the Lord to be in public service at whatever level he wants me.'"
Did you know Doug Coe, the leader of the Family, is mentioned exactly ONE time in Living History? ONE time. On page 168 in a passage in which Hillary is discussing her faith. It's a very brief mention in which she states, like the article states above, he assured her she was was she needed to be spiritually. What MotherJones and the rest of these 'progressive' muckrakers aren't saying (and I guess they're hoping you won't check yourself) is the same passage Coe is mentioned in covers several other religious contacts including Holly Leachman and Linda Lader who invited both Hillary and Tipper Gore to a bipartisan women's only prayer group.
All in all, the religious faith passage covers only six paragraphs and and this period was when Clinton was close to, and then did, lose her father.
--------------------------
Post 68: Where a DUer points out Ted Kennedy, Al Gore, John Glenn and others were 'associated' yet there has been ZERO wailing and gnashing of teeth over that.
So this is where I'm going to do a little creative speculation. I hear the word bounced around a lot on DU: Misogyny. Here we have a book that progressives have misquoted and misinterpreted in an effort to prove Hillary is some kind of nefarious cult member. Yet the book plainly states she was not and that others like Ted Kennedy and Al Gore shared the same
association.
The book finds fault with Hillary for being religious, ambitious and being willing to mix the two yet doesn't raise an eyebrow at her male counterparts for doing the same. Why is that?? Think about it.
RadiationTherapy
(5,818 posts)the Fellowship her entire DC career. You can try and deflect that as hard as you like. You can accuse people of sexism over it if you like, but the fact of the matter is that she is an evangelical christian and she participates in a group that claims loyalty to entities beyond the natural and tangible.
"After a glancing shot at Republican "pharisees," Clinton explained that, of course, her "very serious" grounding in faith had helped her weather the affair. But she had also relied on the "extended faith family" that came to her aid, "people whom I knew who were literally praying for me in prayer chains, who were prayer warriors for me."
Such references to spiritual warfareprayer as battle against Satan, evil, and sinmight seem like heavy evangelical rhetoric for the senator from New York, but they went over well with the Sojourners audience, as did her call to "inject faith into policy." It was language that recalled Clinton's Jesus moment a year earlier, when she'd summoned the Bible to decry a Republican anti-immigrant initiative that she said would "criminalize the good Samaritan...and even Jesus himself." Liberal Christians crowed ("Hillary Clinton Shows the Way Democrats Can Use the Bible," declared a blogger at TPMCafe) while conservative pundits cried foul, accusing Clinton of scoring points with a faith not really her own."
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics
Hillary proclaimed to want to "inject faith into policy" and that is the kind of theocratic nonsense that I will fight against every day.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)across the spectrum.
As I have posted repeatedly, and which you choose to ignore, they hold meetings and Prayer Breakfasts.
Hillary and other leftwing Democrats have been involved with these people to some degree. Including Jimmy Carter.
It's partly pandering.
Partly accepting something simply because it's got the word "prayer" attached to it.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,023 posts)Sounds like she is pretty deep into that piece of shit prosperity cult far beyond the breakfast folks like to pretend is the essential limit to her involvement.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Like everything else she does, she just hung around with them to advance her own political and financial ambitions.
See, she isn't a religious wack job, just a supremely cynical politician.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)hootinholler
(26,449 posts)Jeff Sharlet would be very interested in that. He had to do some real digging to get one.
I'm happy to accept that HIllary's participation in a prayer group was on the up and up, but why be so secretive about whom you pray with?
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)To themself, unless that religious affiliation is directly impacting policy.
Marr
(20,317 posts)people like Greenwald or Snowden, you can't really complain about this. There is at least something actually to this, that the individual in question actually did themselves.
Personally, I think it speaks more to the insularity of DC, but that's just me. I certainly can't fault people for noting just how vile the Family actually is, or for considering any form of support for them to be completely unacceptable.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)May take a little digging, but we might find out he's attended one in person.
Obama Denounces Religious Repression Speaking to thousands at the annual National Prayer Breakfast, President Barack Obama declared that promoting freedom of faith around the world was a central goal of American foreign policy, The New York Times reported. The president criticized China, North Korea and Iran for repressing religious minorities and praised Pope Francis promotion of economic and social justice.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/newswatch/020714
cbayer
(146,218 posts)It is host consensus that this is disruptive meta.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)After further discussion among hosts, there is not consensus to keep this locked.
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)You know better.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)tkmorris
(11,138 posts)That is, if you remember how to reach it. We both know why you tried to lock this. Keep your religious beliefs out of your hosting please.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)That consensus changed later on when a few hosts voted to leave and then it got unlocked. Her behaviour's been nothing but professional and objective, and she acted not on her own but on behalf of all hosts...
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)There are timezones and stuff, a consensus can change as people wake up and come online, etc. (Not that that's necessarily how this went down, but yeah.)
I think this was a good move and took some bit of bravery on her behalf. No one wants to be the ire of someone else.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)I back up everything VC just said.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Cbayer is a great host and religious beliefs had nothing to do with locking this.
Clearly you do not know what you are talking about.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)hosts weighed in later--it was then unlocked.
I don't think you should sit here and lecture Cbayer as if she made these decisions on her own; she didn't. No host locks/unlocks a thread without a consensus from the other hosts. I really think it's unfair that posters give hosts--individually--grief for things that were done as a team
We work as a team. No ONE host does anything alone. If you have a problem with what the HOSTS please take it up with Skinner.
Hosts=team. Keep that in mind before you start piling on one person....
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)Sometimes locks happen but unlocks are rare, and I congratulate hosts who own up to it. I'm sure it was just a minor misunderstanding.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)We initially had significant consensus to lock, but others weighed in later with a difference of opinion. In light of that, we made the decision to unlock. It happens and those that think hosts are not working from a position of good faith are pursuing their own agendas.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)with sanders thread.
i am telling you. the blindness of it all. i had a fb showing cruz denying aid to sandy victims, demanding it for the flood victims of texas.
i do not get the audacity of such contradiction. how does one keep face.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)We all know that the (R)s are not against telling lies to try to win an election. If HRC is our nominee, there will be plenty of people attacking her with everything possible (and lots of things are possible).
Face it, either way there will be plenty of (R)s out there claiming that she was part of the Fellowship in an attempt to lower turnout for her (and every other D on the ticket).
Also, it will work. You know it will. That is why this one has you so upset that you need to post such an angry OP.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)You know how the game is played here.
That's why I asked. Just to see if you'd answer.
PufPuf23
(8,767 posts)has a section entitled "Hillary pages 272 to 277.
To start:
>> Hillary may well be God's beautiful child, but she is not a member of Coe's Family. Rather, I'd been told at Ivanwald, she's a "friend", less elect than a member, but more chosen than the rest of us. A fellow traveler but not a sister. Her goals are not their goals; but on occasions where they coincide, Hillary and the Family can work together<<
Hillary in her own autobiography considers the Family a useful relationship and she went out of her way to go to Family sponsored Bible studies when she was in the Senate.
Aside: I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton, also I do not like her called by her first name along.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)Taken way out of context.
Not a Clinton detractor but this is one of the more odious criticisms of her. I think she's deeply religious, but I think that she gets quite unfair criticism when it comes to her association with the prayer breakfasts (which the women senators used to hob knob as far as I can tell).
jwirr
(39,215 posts)However, I do not know how true that was.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)She did go to those prayer breakfasts pretty much every time. She had alliances with people in The Family over human trafficking. But she was not a "friend" of The Family. It seemed to be a combination of her own religious beliefs and the political capital it gained her (not in a nefarious way, more like, "I see this person regularly, they may be sympathetic to my causes" .
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'm having trouble keeping up with all of it
lamp_shade
(14,827 posts)joshcryer
(62,269 posts)All if "The Family" stuff comes from Sharlet, and he unequivocally said Clinton was "friend of The Family" but not a "sister." She went to those Prayer Breakfasts because every woman Senator went to them. To not go would be to ostracize herself.
The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power is an excellent read. Sharlet is just taken out of context to score points when it comes to Clinton. His writings on Clinton are no more than a dozen pages at most.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)And they can call you 3rd way or a sycophant .... but how DARE you call them anti-Hillary Zombies.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It's all the right and ratfuckers ever have.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)It could be one, none, or many witnesses but whatever is said or isn't said doesn't change what the factual truth actually is.
Again--don't know what this is about but I could be considered an "anti-Hillary zombie" depending on what on you mean as Republicans often reach for some far-fetched scandals but I have no doubt she is corrupt. So is mostly everybody else on the national election scene as well and for the most part the corruption is legalized but still corrupt which is why the treasury is being raided by politicians giving away taxpayer funds to private interests. There were fundraisers for her in 2008 that pled guilty to corruption but since they were officially disconnected from the campaign (and finance laws) Clinton could claim she "didn't know"and think the campaign itself escaped the wrath. Also the Clinton Foundation just reeks but anything like that the FEC is deadlocked and powerless anyways.