White Pride Flag for sale on Amazon: will others complain about it too? (Update: Removed!)

[muriel_volestrangler]

There was a thread a few weeks ago about a Nazi swastika flag for sale on Amazon, from one of their affiliated sellers. Some might claim the swastika is 'of historical interest' (one or 2 did in the thread), but the White Pride flag from the same seller is not.

So I complained to Amazon, quoting their own policy: "Products that promote or glorify hatred, violence, racial, sexual or religious intolerance or promote organizations with such views " are prohibited on Amazon.

They replied they'd look at it, but: "however, we won't be able to release the outcome of the investigation", so I wasn't going to get a further reply. It's nearly 3 weeks since they sent me that, and the hateful object it still there for sale (yeah, that's a link to it; some people in the original thread seemed to agree that hate flags are bad, but thought that they are so bad that we shouldn't even link to the offending Amazon page to prove the problem is real. Even though those people showed no sign of doing anything to get Amazon to remove the crap. So, tough, there's the link).

So I think Amazon need multiple kicks up the arse to get that seller to remove that quintessential symbol of racism; and, if we're really lucky, to get Amazon to remove the seller too.

Will anyone else send in some complaints to Amazon?

Here's their general contact page:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/contact-us/general-questions.html
though, in their last email to me, they suggested I use this page, which has an explicit 'report a violation of our rules' option:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/reports
however, it also has a box for 'order number', and I don't know if you can leave that blank.

Update: They've removed it from sale - See reply #25!

[chemp]

1. No one had written a review for this wonderful product yet?

Here's mine:

When I want my neighbors to know what kind of an inbred, racist douche bag I am, I unfurl my White Pride flag.
Nothing makes my tiny, inbred penis grow an extra centimeter or two than knowing that my neighbors see my hatred.
Think I'm gonna run off and screw my sister again.

[Jim__]

4. Your review isn't visible - at least not yet.

I don't know if Amazon has to approve a review before it becomes visible; but I just looked on the site and it still says no customer reviews.

It would be great if they published it.

[chemp]

18. just got email

my review did not adhere to amazon guidelines.

The irony.

[maddezmom]

2. just sent 2 messages to amazon

will let you know if I hear back.

[maddezmom]

3. got back a std email

Greetings from Amazon.com.

Thank you for submitting your report. All reports are reviewed by our investigations team. For privacy reasons, the results of our investigations cannot be disclosed, but please know that we will take any appropriate disciplinary actions.

If you are a buyer and have not received a Marketplace order, please note that items shipped using USPS Standard Rate usually arrive in 4 to 14 business days, but occasionally may take longer. Buyers are encouraged to contact sellers directly with any questions related to delivery time, order details, or to arrange for a return, refund, or exchange.

If you have already contacted your seller, please review the terms of our A-to-z Guarantee. After 30 days, but no longer than 90 days, from the date of purchase, buyers may submit a claim.

Amazon.com A-to-z Guarantee:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=537868

If you have received a suspicious e-mail that appears to be from Amazon.com, or have questions about safety, security and privacy on Amazon.com, please visit our Help Pages below:

Privacy & Security on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=551434

If you have questions about selling or buying on Amazon.com, please visit our Help Page section at the web pages below:

Selling At Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=1161234

Ordering from Amazon.com Merchants
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=537794

Thank you again for bringing this matter to our attention.

Best Regards,

Seller Performance Team
Amazon.com

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. Would you similarly object to other pride flags?

Note that this has been an issue in some school systems...

[cynatnite]

6. You haven't seen the other things Amazon sells, have you?

http://www.amazon.com/Picking-Retards-Scott-Carpenter/dp/1452007438/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336834311&sr=8-1

This is called "Picking on Retards". They even have an item defending pedophilia.

There is plenty offensive material that is listed on Amazon. Right or wrong, it's all there. They post this stuff and worse. As much as I personally hate it and find it offensive, people have the right to buy or not buy. They have a right to protest it or not protest it. Amazon is not likely to change their policy on this kind of material. Amazon has come out strong against censorship even if the material is offensive.

I support them on this.

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. I can't see the relevance of your link

"Picking On Retards is a novel about the hardest lessons we learn. The ones about ourselves"

So, you think a novel about how you shouldn't bully people is similar to a flag that's the symbol of white supremacists?

Here's their policy:

Examples of Prohibited Listings

Products that promote or glorify hatred, violence, racial, sexual or religious intolerance or promote organizations with such views

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200277420

[cynatnite]

13. Sorry, I thought I had linked to a different book...

They've had a huge listing of books and material that a lot of folks find offensive. Amazon also removed gay and lesbian oriented books much to the dismay of many.

Some of what they've offered in the past are books like 101 Reasons You Might Be A Retard, A book promoting pedophilia (it was called Loving boys and boylovers, IIRC), and another much talked about book about advocating pedophilia (that author has since been arrested). I have no doubt there is plenty of other material that will offend you.

People get upset, complain and protest. My attitude remains the same. If you don't like, find it offensive or whatever other problem you have with the product you can protest it and complain about it if you prefer. Your choice. Even if the message is offensive, I say let them have their free speech. There are consequences and you are doing one of those by making people aware of it.

Me personally, I don't care if they have that flag for sale. I don't care if anyone buys it. I do care when it is used to promote their hate-filled agenda. That is when it crosses the line for me.

[Nye Bevan]

7. Does this flag really "glorify hatred, violence, racial, sexual or religious intolerance"?

I wouldn't buy this product myself, but arguably it does not "glorify hatred, violence, racial, sexual or religious intolerance". If the flag said something like "I hate black people" then yes, obviously it would contravene Amazon's policy, but if a "White Pride" flag should be banned, should a "Black Pride" flag also be banned? How about something like "Thank God I'm Irish"?

[cynatnite]

8. It stands more for hate than anything else...

It's no different than the confederate flag. They represent hate and racism. It hardly compares to the Irish or Black flags since historically they have not been used nowhere near the same way as Aryan groups and the KKK have used these flags.

Having said all that, I don't agree with banning it either. Free speech, no matter how offensive, should still be free.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. Yes.

[Nye Bevan]

14. Yes, you would ban "black pride" items? (nt)

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. Yes, the flag really glorifies hatred, violence, racial, sexual or religious intolerance

cynatnite dealt with the comparison to "Thank God I'm Irish"; see the link in #12 for what this flag means, the hate group that designed it, and the hate groups that use it.

[vaberella]

11. As a Black Woman I see nothing wrong with this flag.

It could also be the fact that I own the Afro American Flag... I'm not sure if the Afro American flag promotes the things you mentioned. And that design on the White Pride shirt looks like crosshairs...I guess that promotes violence. Dunno...I'm not seeing the problem and I am hypersensitive to racism.

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. Have you heard the term 'white pride' before?

Here's where it's used:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22white+pride%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB fficial&client=firefox-a

The only people who use it approvingly are extreme racists. No, it's not crosshairs (though that may be meant to be a subconscious association, who knows); it's a Celtic Cross, which they use because it's associated with Northern Europe - to these people, southern Europeans are inferior too, as well as any non-Christian.

This is one of the most popular symbols for neo-Nazis and white supremacists. First popularized by the Ku Klux Klan, the symbol was later adopted by the National Front in England and other racists such as Don Black on his Web site, Stormfront, and the racist band Skrewdriver to represent international "white pride." It is also known as Odin’s Cross. It is important to note that the Celtic Cross is used widely today in many mainstream and cultural contexts. No one should assume that a Celtic Cross, divorced from other trappings of extremism, automatically denotes use as a hate symbol.

http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/racist_celtic_cross.asp

But putting 'white pride' above it is using it with the same 'trappings' that the KKK intended.

[vaberella]

17. I know very well the meaning.

Again it just doesn't offend me. But the Confederate Flag doesn't offend me either. I find actions and words more problematic than a flag. I also know one too many people who buy this stuff for novelties sake.

[RZM]

16. I fail to see why anybody should care about this

I have no problem with people selling or purchasing any flag, including stupid racist flags. While I would never fly such a flag, I respect the right of others to produce, sell, and purchase them if they choose to do so.

As for their policy, they've been violating it all along with the books they sell. Works by Louis Farrakhan and David Duke are just a click away.

[Yourhypocrisy]

19. Still hypocritical

So why is no one here complaining about the USSR Communist flags being sold on Amazon? I mean, the Stalin killed far more people than Hitler ever did. I mean, that is your argument right? That these flags represent the death of 6 million people? Do you only care about millions of people being murdered by the state when the murder is race specific? What about Mao? How many millions of people did he kill under Communism? Maybe you should complain about Chinese flags too. Your bias and hypocrisy is beyond transparent. And why is "White Pride" hateful when Latino pride, Black Pride, Brown Pride, Yellow Pride etc. apparently is not? Why does it seem that you arent concerned or offended by items glorifying racial pride in general? Why is it that only White racial pride offends you? Is that in itself not racist? Please stop pretending to be "liberals". You give true liberals a bad name. You are overtly fascistic, racist and narrowminded. I am disgusted by this thread and people like you make me ashamed to call myself a liberal

[Iggo]

21. .

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. Bah. Juries.

An identical post by the troll here got hidden 5-1, but this one, similarly calling me a fascist and racist, gets left 3-3.

[pinboy3niner]

23. Some jurors may have bought his claim to be 'a liberal' (though it made me LOL)

At least our MIR Team wasn't fooled.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=284549&sub=trans

[Iggo]

28. Aw, he's a two-hitter quitter.

Two and through.

Don't waste brain space on him.

[JonLP24]

26. In my experience

the ones w/ "white pride" bumper stickers & other items are racists and claim they're so oppressed that they're not allowed to have pride. If you see images of Neo-Nazi or other type of rallies you'll notice a lot of "white pride" flags & similar items. "white pride" isn't the same as "Latino pride" or other items because those are used to answer back to false claims & views of inferiority as well stating they aren't ashamed of who they are. Now a white person could use those items for honest reasons but honestly there is no reason to since whites are the majority & they don't face much discrimination and feelings of inferiority. Because of that, the only reason I ever known people to purchase these items are racists that often claim blacks & other minorities have all the rights and whites are oppressed.

I'm laughing at your over-dramatization. Personally, I'm not very upset w/ Amazon because taken at face value, there is nothing wrong with it. But I know the motivation behind these items.

[jp11]

24. What was also pointed out, though really a likely much smaller

percent of those interested in the product, are people seeking this type of item for video/films.

Just because you buy a 'hate' item doesn't mean you revere it, people burn American flags all over the world not all of them get them cause they love America.

[Generic Other]

25. I just clicked and it's not a functioning page

so maybe your complaints worked. Good for you!

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. Cool!

I also tried a search among that seller's products, and it didn't turn up, when it used to. There's still a horribly large amount of variations on the Nazi and Confederate flags from them, but it's harder to say they are there purely to promote hate.

Thanks to anyone who contacted Amazon!