Arnie Gundersen warns Californians to watch Spent Fuel Pool 4 "Like a hawk"

[flamingdem]

and if it blows, move elsewhere! Gulp, Arnie is not a woo woo, he's a scientist, a sometimes guest on CNN, so that is kind of scary. So what is actually, factually happening with ole SFP 4? The amount of cesium would be like 800 nukes dropped at once.

My corrected information about the problem of SFP 4 is that is will catch fire if the water is gone due to an earthquake (highly likely) This will go around the world and hit the West Coast the most.

Arnie Gundersen Interviewed by Mike Adams
May 11, 2012

At 41:40 in

"I’m telling my friends on the [US] west coast, you gotta watch it like a hawk everyday get up and make sure Unit 4 is standing… if it’s not, have a plan B to move somewhere."

http://enenews.com/gundersen-im-telling-my-friends-on-west-coast-of-us-you-gotta-watch-it-like-a-hawk-everyday-get-up-and-make-sure-unit-4-is-standing-if-its-not-have-a-plan-b-to-move-somewhere-video

[flamingdem]

1. Petition at change.org -- geared to US citizens pressing our government

We are trying to appeal to the U.S. government to support Japan in cleaning up Fukushima.

We are particularly concerned about Spent Fuel Pool 4. We believe the UN should be involved, but this petition is geared toward U.S. citizens to press our government, specifically, because our officials only (supposedly) listen to their "constituents" — or so we were told.

Please go to "change.org" and type in the website's search engine:

"Fukushima Spent Fuel Pool 4 Risks U.S. Health and Safety"

Please sign and circulate this petition, as best you can. Post the petition on social media (Facebook, Tumblr, etc) to help us get the word to others.

Our goal is to gain signatures, have signers call all senators on the 2 energy committees (that control interactions with Japan, regarding Fukushima)–then, meet with several senators, present information and petition. We are bringing expert witnesses.

Please help us circulate this petition and join our call campaign! Thank you.

[flamingdem]

2. KPFK Pacifica covers the Spent Fuel Pool 4 story - PLUS - Senator Wyden warns on West Coast danger

http://enenews.com/kpfk-airs-15-minute-segment-on-spent-fuel-pool-no-4-the-scariest-part-its-being-covered-by-virtually-nobody-in-the-mainstream-corporate-media-audio

I was joined by Brad Jacobson to discuss his terrifying new report at Alternet on the “ticking time-bomb” that is the precarious Spent Fuel Pool — now fully exposed, 100 feet off the ground in a listing building — at Fukushima Daiichi’s reactor #4. His report should scare the hell out of you. It certainly does me. And the scariest part: It’s being covered by virtually nobody in the mainstream corporate media.

=======

More from Sen. Wyden: Fukushima spent fuel absolutely a national security issue — Radiation caused by pool failure “could reach the West Coast within days”

The Worst Yet to Come? Why Nuclear Experts Are Calling Fukushima a Ticking Time-Bomb
Alternet
Brad Jacobson
May 4, 2012

[...] Alarmed by the precarious nature of spent fuel storage during his recent tour of the Fukushima Daiichi site, Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon subsequently fired off letters to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Secretary of Energy Steven Chu, NRC Chairman Gregory Jaczko and Japanese ambassador to the U.S. Ichiro Fujisaki. He implored all parties to work together and with the international community to address this situation as swiftly as possible.

A press release issued after his visit said that Wyden, a senior member of the U.S. Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources who is highly experienced with nuclear waste storage issues, believes the situation is “worse than reported,” with “spent fuel rods currently being stored in unsound structures immediately adjacent to the ocean.” The press release also noted the structures’ high susceptibility to earthquakes and that “the only protection from a future tsunami, Wyden observed, is a small, makeshift sea wall erected out of bags of rock.” [...]

AlterNet asked Sen. Wyden if he considers the spent fuel at Fukushima Daiichi a national security threat.

In a statement released by his office, Wyden replied, “The radiation caused by the failure of the spent fuel pools in the event of another earthquake could reach the West Coast within days. That absolutely makes the safe containment and protection of this spent fuel a security issue for the United States.” [...]

[Arctic Dave]

3. DHS was doing mass causality drills in no where Alaska

about two weeks ago. I thought it was strange to take place in a town of 500 but their location is a prime landing zone for the tsunami debris and fallout if it were to go.

[flamingdem]

4. That's interesting

Gundersent says Tokyo would have to be evacuated if the fuel pool catches fire. The fire is very likely if the structure collapses due to an earthquake. They are talking 2-5 years for removal of the spent fuel, the percent change of a earthquake that will destroy the structure if very high, in fact there are mini earthquakes all the time

[Confusious]

5. Nuclear fuel can't explode

it isn't pure enough.

reactor rods are 3-5 percent uranium. A bomb has to be 80-90 percent pure uranium.

As for your petition, don't you think the government would send people if there was a real danger? We did when the problems first happened. Obama sent parts and copters to help.

Personally, I think it's just a bunch of Internet hystreria.

[flamingdem]

6. I corrected my original incorrect statement

Watching more videos on this -- the concern is that the fuel will catch fire if the building collapses, it's already unstable and there are many tremors and potential earthquakes of course that could leave the rods without water. They will catch fire and you cannot extinguish it -- water will make it worse -- and it will blow all over Japan and the world -- towards the US due to wind currents

[Confusious]

7. Personally,

I think it's just a bunch of Internet hysteria.

Just like when the reactor first started having problems, thousand freaked, and there were predictions of the end of the world in the next few weeks. What's it been now, a year with no clouds of death over california?

[flamingdem]

8. Well clouds of death don't reveal themselves until the cancer kicks in

and the amount of spent fuel in that pool -- according to Brookings Institute would cause hundreds of thousands of cancers, and it doesn't dilute with air so it will find its way around the world.

The incompetence of Tepco is behind this.

[Confusious]

10. Anything that floats in the air

Can be diluted by air. If it couldn't, then it wouldn't spread over such a wide area.

Also, did you forget the radiation? If it was a big cloud of death, radiation monitors all over California would be going off.

[flamingdem]

12. There was radiation detected and hot particles as well

And the fire would be much more crap than that hydrogen explosion and leaking.

Look up the Brookings report on Spent Fuel Pool fires, hundreds of thousands of cancers

[Confusious]

14. Nope, nothing

The zirconium cladding on the rod catches fire if hot enough, and sure, it would cause a bad radiation cloud, but really, I've heard enough doomsayers to be skeptical if it's not being picked up by legit sources.

Like I said, Internet hysteria.

[magical thyme]

17. perhaps you could provide a link

to a scientific source for your information.

[Confusious]

18. My sources?

I'm not making wild claims about the end of the world.

Just to be helpful, try a wikipedia for the definition of dilution, nuclear reactors and zirconium.

[HiPointDem]

19. according to ene news, children's homes in russia are overflowing with grotesquely deformed

children from chernobyl - "another race". to prove this they linked a video of mentally retarded children in an asylum.

ergo i discount everything i see from that source.

[FBaggins]

21. Yep...

But Chernobyl put out MANY times as much radiation as Fukushima (particularly in the most damaging elements)... And the Russians handled it far worse.

[magical thyme]

22. your sources that say that the sheer volume

of radioactive material involved isn't something to be seriously concerned about, should an earthquake bring down reactor 4's storage structure.

[Confusious]

28. I never said that

I said, PERSONALLY, I think it's hysteria.

IF an earthquake large enough hits, IF the fuel rods loose cooling, IF IF IF IF IF IF

IF an earthquake large enough hits California, IF an earthquake large enough hits Seattle IF IF IF IF

Alot of IFs doesn't mean it will happen. I also lived long enough in one of the most earthquake prone areas to know the chances of the same fault going in the same exact place is almost nil.

It's hysteria.

[MattBaggins]

24. How about you look up the periodic table of the elements

Look up how heavy Cessium is and calculate how far it will actually spread absent an actual powerful explosion to propel it into the atmosphere.

[magical thyme]

25. I didn't make any claims. the poster I replied to made a claim

I'm asking that poster to back up that claim.

According to my periodic table, Cs' atomic weight is 132.90545, but that is not the radioactive version which I would expect would be roughly 137.

However, I am a medical lab tech, so studied biochemistry, not physics (except a smattering of baby physics and it's been a few years, I don't use it so don't remember it), aerodynamics or meteorology.

Perhaps you could enlighten us. And while you're at it, you may want to calculate its spread through the Pacific Ocean.

Btw, a portion of those rods are Mox fuel. While you're calculating the spread of Cesium, maybe you could also fill us in on Plutonium (Pu, atomic weight 244).

[Confusious]

27. Really? a medical lab tech

So you're questioning the logic of anything that floats in the air is diluted by the air?

Do you think the nuclear rods float in the air?

Do you think that the concentration of uranium in a rod is the same as a cloud?

dilution doesn't mean it goes away.

If you had read the claims made by the poster before me that the cloud wouldn't be diluted, amoung other science errors.

[magical thyme]

29. you still haven't answered my question about your sources

No, I'm not questioning the logic of dilution. (Although we are now learning that the solution to pollution is not dilution).

If that is what you were referring to as "internet hysteria" then I sit corrected.

And no I do not think that the concentration of uranium (or cesium or plutonium, etc.) in a rod is the same as a cloud.

However, it does not take the radiation levels concentrated in a rod to wreak havoc in a body.

Unless I misunderstand, you are claiming that Arnie Gunderson et al are spreading "internet hysteria." I have asked for your source that their claims are internet hysteria. What specifically are they stating that is incorrect?

And I ask you again to provide for us the distance cesium would travel in a cloud, since as I wrote above, I do not have training in that field.

[Confusious]

31. You seemed to have missed it again

So I will repeat, since you don't seem to understand:

PERSONALLY, (which means it's my OPIONION) is that it's Internet hysteria.

reasons as follows:

hasn't been picked up by legit media

Doomsayers where predicting the end of the world when this first started, hasn't happened yet

The video at the link points to a right wing bullshit site

A lot of bullshit white power sites have picked it up

ee news is a bullshit site, which pushes, among other things, snake oil

If there was a big problem, the United States would be rushing to fix things, since it impacts us directly, havn't seen that.

All the IFs in the original article, if an earthquake happens, if the cooling pool looses water, if if if

earthquakes don't hit the same fault twice.

those are my reasons for saying it's Internet hysteria, I'm sure I'll find more.

[magical thyme]

32. thank you for clarifying that "internet hysteria" is your personal opinion

"If there was a big problem, the United States would be rushing to fix things, since it impacts us directly, havn't seen that. "

If you had read other articles, you would know that at least one US senator has recently visited the site and came back pushing for the US to get more involved. Actually, there is a recent push from a number of scientists and officials, including US, Japanese and others, for greater involvement in bringing the site under control.


"earthquakes don't hit the same fault twice."

Really? Is that also your opinion, or are you an expert in seismology and geophysics?

[Confusious]

33. One lone US senator.

Does not a massive response make.

And as for the groups, the union of concerned scientists and other groups would take any opportunity to drum up hysteria. They sure did when the problems started. So did all the pundits.

If you want to include those, then you should include the sites running with the story. All are IFFY sites, that I wouldn't trust them to tell me the sky is blue.

As far as earthquakes, I lived in a highly earthquake prone area for 20 years. Earthquakes are because of stress on a fault. When an earthquake happens, it releases that stress. Thus, an earthquake can't happen on the same fault twice, within a certain period, and usually, that time is no shorter then 100 years.

I may start to worry if there's some earthquakes in Malaysia, but not before.

You may know nothing about this stuff, but some of us turned off "American Idol" and educated ourselves.

[magical thyme]

34. You may want to tell that to Robert Alvarez, former policy adviser, US department of energy

It turns out that there is another large earthquake fault within 1 mile of Fukushima. Which happens to be overdue for a quake.

Maybe that explains why Tepco made a big point of stating that reactor 4 could withstand a 6 or so earthquake not too long ago.

Here's a link. Try educating yourself.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/may/07/japan-fukushima-nuclear-power-earthquakes

p.s. I'm alerting on your last comment, which strikes me as a deliberate personal attack. I am also putting you on ignore. Have a nice life.

[magical thyme]

30. oh,and you can skip my question about how far it travels through the ocean

Those internet hysterians in the Japanese government have pretty much answered it.

Title: Study: Radioactive water to reach Hawaii in 2 years
Source: AJW by The Asahi Shimbun
Author: TAKASHI SUGIMOTO
Date: April 03, 2012

Water contaminated by radioactivity that entered the sea from the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant will reach the Hawaiian Islands in March 2014, according to a computer simulation by the Japan Atomic Energy Agency. [...]

The researchers said 18,000 trillion becquerels of radioactive iodine and cesium have leaked from the plant into the sea.

The contaminated water will be carried by ocean currents, and the maximum radioactivity level in cesium-137 will be about 0.04 becquerel per liter when it nears the Hawaiian Islands, they said.

http://enenews.com/japan-govt-radioactive-fukushima-water-to-hit-hawaii-within-2-years-ocean-may-be-50-of-epas-maximum-contaminant-level-photo

[FBaggins]

35. Do you have any idea what the natural radioactivity of the ocean is?

.04 bq/L is less than 1/300th the existing levels.

So yes, anyone posting breathlessly about the radiation from Fukushima working its way through the ocean to the US is engaging in "internet hysteria"

[magical thyme]

36. Like ignored, you are making incorrect assumptions about my intent

My questions are straightforward and open in intent. No -- I do NOT know what the natural radioactivity of the ocean is.

I am simply trying to sift through the "internet hysteria" and get to the actual facts laying behind it, in the most expedient way possible. That means when somebody is making a generalized claim, I'd like to know the source.

You can choose to use this as an opportunity to illuminate. Or you can use this as an opportunity to ridicule. Really, it's your choice.

In any event, the title below from the article I quoted is equally useful information:

"Radiation plume heading toward Hawaii, says Japan gov’t study — Fukushima-contaminated water to hit in under 2 years — Ocean may be 50% of EPA’s maximum contaminant level for drinking water (PHOTO)"


And while the radiation measured thus far represents only a tiny increase in radiation levels in the ocean, only a relatively small amount of radiation was released (relative to what could potentially be released were there another earthquake or tsunami, which also seems possible given Japan's location on the ring of fire and the propensity of tsunamis to travel across the ocean).

[Confusious]

38. I really don't think any fact matters

This person wants to be hysterical.

I gave a lot of reasons why I thought it was hysteria, all ignored.

So don't waste your time.

[MattBaggins]

23. It is hysteria

The video on the link provided is from that idiot Alex Jones of the woo woo tin foil site InfoWars.

[Politicalboi]

9. Like that is going to work

The panic would kill more than the melt down. And where is everybody going to go? I figure if we see birds fall dead from the sky we're doomed. I doubt we will be told the truth. If it happens tomorrow what can we do about it. If Rmoney stops the elevator construction, and sells his house, that would be our first clue. Because ONLY the rich will be able to get away far enough and quick enough. I just hope they leave their doors unlocked. LOL!

[flamingdem]

11. We can take over Rmoney's house and make it the anti-nuke headquarters!

There's always a silver lining.

[Webster Green]

13. I'm not leaving California.

Fuck that. I would prefer death by radiation than having to go live somewhere other than Northern California.

We all die eventually. Whatever.

[bananas]

15. Fairewinds twitter feed has their most recent updates

Fairewinds twitter feed:

http://www.twitter.com/fairewinds

If you have an RSS reader, you can use:

http://twitter.com/statuses/user_timeline/15807344.rss

This seems to be more complete than their regular RSS feed.

[AverageJoe90]

16. Certainly would be disastrous if something were to happen.

I'd be wary, though, because I've seen a bit of fearmongering as of late.....and no, I don't think the West Coast is going to become uninhabitable just because some old reactor rods caught fire. That said, though, there could perhaps be some significant long term problems, though nothing apocalyptic.
I'd be pretty concerned about northern Japan, though, they're bound to get the worst of it.

[Sedona]

20. I won't even click on the video

Info Wars/Alex Jones = The people who brought you Obama gathering millions of coffins for American FEMA camp genocide.

FAIL

[FarCenter]

26. Meet The Only Man Who Stayed In His Town After Evacuation For The Fukushima Disaster

Naota Matsumara is the only resident left in his town after the government evacuated the other 16,000 residents because an earthquake caused a nuclear meltdown at a nearby plant. He refuses to leave Fukishima.

Since his town was evacuated a year ago, Matsumara has devoted his life to care of the animals left behind by their owners. Glen Milner at the Telegraph went undercover to record Matsumara's life in the deserted streets of his town.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/naota-matsumara-lives-alone-2012-5

[Baitball Blogger]

37. That is going to take some seriously long binoculars.