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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI have never seen a candidates religious beliefs scrutinized and questioned as much as Obama's were
But now Romney wants to be in control of the nuclear launch codes and some feel it would be unfair for us to scrutinize and question candidate Romney's religious beliefs? Fuck that. I have two grandkids. I consider it my duty to find out exactly what this guy believes. Does Romney think he could make a little mistake and get us into a nuclear war and that after it happened he and his family get to fly off to planet Kolob, and live exquisite lives with car elevators and everything after earth and all the rest of us are turned into a charred crisp? Does he believe that! We have a right to know what he believes.
Feel like I have just jumped though the Looking Glass hearing people say, "Leave Mitts religion alone.", after the religious vetting that President Obama was forced to go through. And now we got people saying Mitts religious beliefs, whatever the hell they are, should be off limits? What in the hell is going on?
I sure as shit wouldn't be voting for a Moonie or Scientologist for president. I don't care how qualified they were. And I know more about them than I do Mormons. That is problematic for me.
Maybe after it is too late and this crazy asshole gets elected we can all sing Kumbaya together?
Don
demtenjeep
(31,997 posts).
quinnox
(20,600 posts)I still disagree, but I know many more would agree with your position.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)Not that they're any crazier than other religions, they aren't. But they are a different crazy.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and kills everyone, he and his family will be together in paradise with God and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Angels and Saints, for all eternity.
Does this worry you?
NNN0LHI
(67,190 posts)With Bush and some other self professed Christians, I am not so sure of that.
And with Romney it is like a blank slate. I have no idea what he believes or if he will sound sane trying to explain what he does believe.
Don
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)I agree that a candidate's sanity is a perfectly legitimate thing to probe. Nitpicking about the details of the candidate's religious views, and what particular version of the afterlife they subscribe to, not so much.
RZM
(8,556 posts)First of all, it was the Hillary campaign that got the ball rolling on Reverend Wright. While various conservatives continued to talk about it in the general, the McCain campaign stayed away from it.
And second, the issue was never Obama's 'religious beliefs.' I never saw a single criticism of him for being a protestant Christian. The issue was the pastor at his church. I would argue he was somewhat open to criticism there because he selected Reverend Wright's church out of the many churches on Chicago's south side.
There has been a lot of speculation (most of it rather cynical) as to why he plucked Wright from the chorus. One argument holds that as a transplant to Chicago who had been raised in Hawaii by white people, Obama needed 'cred' in not only in Chicago itself, but in the black south side community in particular. One largely forgotten story about Obama's rise is the resistance he encountered breaking into the Chicago black establishment. He was shellacked by Bobby Rush when he ran for Congress and was socially shunned by the black legislative crew in Springfield. Many of them viewed him as an upstart who had not put in his time and attempted to circumvent the 'machine,' as it were.
That even lasted a little bit into his run for president. A couple major legislators and civil rights figures, including John Lewis, initially endorsed Hilary (I suspect partly because they thought she would win and partly as a favor to Bill). It took a while before the black community was solidly in Obama's corner, which ended up causing Lewis to issue a rather embarrassing retraction of his endorsement.
Another argument I've heard holds that Obama had difficulty connecting with the primarily working class black Chicago clergy. As a man of Columbia and Harvard, he preferred the company of a relatively erudite character like Wright. That's not saying that he disdained or looked down upon the other clergymen, but he had more in common with somebody like Wright
In any case, if you buy the cynical explanations (and I do), the irony of the whole Reverend Wright flap was that it's possible Obama didn't even particularly care for Wright's political messages but was essentially using him and his church for political purposes. I don't think it was all Machiavellian here - he and Wright did become friends, although that friendship wasn't able to survive Obama's emergence as a viable national candidate.
So I would disagree that you can equate criticizing Mitt for being born into Mormonism with Obama choosing a specific church in his 30s. That's not to say there aren't thing to criticize about Mormonism, but I hesitate to compare this to Wright. Criticizing a pastor is not the same as criticizing a whole denomination.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)RZM
(8,556 posts)An alarmingly high percentage of the population believes he's a Muslim. But it's not very different from the percentage that believes Bush was behind 9/11, that Clinton had Vince Foster killed, and that H-Dub was the head of the super-secret New World Order/Masons/Illuminati cabal. We've all heard idiots argue these things. It takes all types to make the world go round.
BTW, 'Obama is a Muslim' is also like 'Bush caused 9/11' because not everybody who tells a pollster they believe it necessarily does. It is also sometimes a stand in for 'I don't like them.'
As for the people that really believe either . . . They are idiots. Not much we can do about that.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)You should probably pick one and stick with it.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)I want to see a society where that is not reason for suspicion, distrust and paranoia. I want an inclusive society where it doesn't matter. I'd be totally fine with a poll that came back saying, "100% of Americans believe candidate So-and-So is a Such-and-Such but they also say they're OK with that."
RZM
(8,556 posts)You criticize somebody for something they really are or something they really have done. You accuse somebody of something you think they are or something you think they have done. That's not the same thing at all.
Nobody has criticized Obama for being a Protestant Christian. They have criticized him for choosing to be a member of a specific church with a pastor who has made statements that many people find objectionable. That's criticism.
Saying Obama is a Muslim isn't criticism. It's an accusation. And a false one at that. Using the word 'criticism' implies that the facts are not in dispute. It's not disputed that he joined Wright's church. It is disputed that he's a Muslim.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)and John Kennedy had to undergo intense scrutiny and questioning of his Catholicism some 32 years later.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)At the time, that was also partly code for bigotry against Irish immigrants.
RZM
(8,556 posts)But Italians, Poles, Croats, Hungarians, etc. While I'm not an expert, I do think anti-Catholicism has always been a catchall for the many Catholic immigrant groups.
People forget that the reborn KKK in the 20th century was as much anti-Catholic as anything else.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)I lived in an Irish Catholic neighborhood and it was felt very deeply -- enough to impress me and I was nearly 5 at the time.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)They herded people into concentration camps so we had every right to herd them into concentration camps. I mean, we're not going to sit around and let them play by a dirty set of rules why we try to be the good guys, right? They were militant Shintoists, after all; and who would want to stick up for THOSE kinds of people with their silly ideas?