Is "Prepping" Practical Or Paranoia?

[NNN0LHI]

http://www2.wspa.com/news/2012/may/10/prepping-practical-or-paranoia-ar-3617216/

Is "Prepping" Practical Or Paranoia?

Is it a good idea to start planning now for the collapse of our society? Many of your neighbors are getting a head start

By: Gordon Dill | WSPA-TV
Published: May 10, 2012 Updated: May 10, 2012 - 5:45 PM

<snip>At once paranoid and practical, preppers are essentially pessimistic boy scouts. Some prepare for war, others for economic collapse, and in parts of Western North Carolina many worry about an Electromagnetic Pulse weapon (EMP) that would disable electronics and turn back the clock by a full century. In every scenario there is reference to a fallen society that's "WROL" (without rule of law) in which only the well-prepared can prosper.

EMP is the primary concern of Jan Sterritt who, along with husband Bill, runs Carolina Readiness Supply in Waynesville N.C..

"It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when (an EMP will hit)", she says.

Jan scurries around her store with a cordless phone clipped to her belt. It rings at 5 minute intervals with new questions from the Sterritt's now growing customer base.

"It was just like we've gotta do something. We've gotta tell people about it and get them prepared," she says when pulled aside for a quick interview.

----------------------------------------------

Sounds like there are some real scam artists out there taking advantage of some sick people to me. Yep, thats what it sounds like.

Don

[rrneck]

1. 72 hours.

You need enough supplies for 72 hours or so until emergency services can get to you. Any more than that and you'll have more problems than you'll ever be able to anticipate or prepare for.

[Johnny Rico]

51. I prefer having enough supplies for a month.

I can imagine scenarios such as a terrorist nuke or bio-weapon attack in which it could take more than 3 days for help to arrive. I do think that if it takes more than a month it's Mad Max time...

[rrneck]

65. Or if we have another "Brownie" running FEMA. nt

[4th law of robotics]

67. I would go a bit longer than that

it's not too hard to store food/water for a week if you're practical and don't much care about enjoying the experience.

72 hours for instance wouldn't have been much use for the Katrina folks.

[TheWraith]

123. You really should have more than 72 hours.

In my area, the only real natural disasters we're subject to are blizzards or ice storms, and even so I wouldn't consider being equipped for anything less than a week without outside assistance. Two weeks is a lot better.

[RKP5637]

2. Yep, get 'em now!

[immoderate]

3. EMPs is among Gingrich's favorite scams.

And he's a fucking idiot.

--imm

[B2G]

22. Hate to break it to you

but EMPs are a real threat. Do some research and get back to me.

[immoderate]

30. Really? From whom?

--imm

[B2G]

32. From whomever has the ability to explode a nuke over our heads

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/ferc_Executive_Summary.pdf

[immoderate]

35. Will that prevent us from vaporizing the culprit?

Who is going to blow up a nuke in our stratosphere, without testing the effects, and risk nuclear retaliation from the US?

--imm

[B2G]

39. The idea is

to take our our ability to respond. I have seen scenarios where a nuke launched from a sub would severely hamper our ability to launch. I'm not saying it's going to happen...just that it could and it's not far fetched or complete fantasy.

As to who would do such a thing...Iran and North Korea come to mind immediately.

[Johnny Rico]

53. Have you read "One Second After" by William R. Forstchen?

If not...do!

[B2G]

59. I have...

excellent read! Scared the crap out of my daughter.

[Johnny Rico]

64. My sister is listening to the audio version right now.

It might be a good tool to persuade her to do a little light prepping herself.

[4th law of robotics]

74. +1

Excellent book.

[immoderate]

60. We have the nuclear subs!

Iran and North Korea? How many stratospheric nuclear detonations would be necessary to neutralize all possible response?

Attack by EMP is science fiction. Why wouldn't they just nuke us? More bang for the buck -- and corpses don't retaliate.

--imm

[B2G]

66. and I'm will to bet that

Prior to 911, you would have dismissed the idea that terrorists could hijack 4 airliners simultaneously, crash them into the Pentagon and bring down the WTC as science fiction as well.

[progressoid]

101. Yeah, and look how that brought about the end of the world.

Or not.

[Johnny Rico]

75. Why wouldn't they just nuke us? Because an EMP attack could kill far more Americans.

A successful EMP attack could kill many more people in the long run. I've seen estimates of a 90% death rate after one year from starvation, disease, etc. The United States would effectively cease to exist...whereas a half dozen nukes taking out cities would kill a few million at most.

[B2G]

77. Not only that...

the entire landscape is left intact for the taking. None of the devastation associated with a nuclear strike.

The ultimate green weapon, so to speak...kill off the people and move right in.

[Johnny Rico]

91. Although cities, once they aren't cared for, fall apart *quickly*.

NYC, for example, would be completely flooded within weeks to months if not for the constant pumping of water from the subway & sewer systems.

[4th law of robotics]

104. You could still strip it for copper wiring

according to my broker, who is also a methhead, that is one of the best investments out there.

[NoPasaran]

135. Of course, with electronics disabled and 90% of the population dead

The value of some commodities might be subject to adjustment.

[TheWraith]

132. I doubt that it would be that successful.

An EMP powerful enough to kill everything electronic would be hard to accomplish. But even a relatively ineffective strike, just crippling power grids and the like, would still do massive amounts of damage as well as loss of life. How many airliners, containing how many people, would be within the EMP zone if you detonated one bomb over the eastern US? There's 23,000 scheduled flights per day in the US... if only one tenth of those were in the air within 1,000 miles, and each one contained an average of 100 people, that would be more people dead than were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki put together, just in planes. Not counting the people the planes landed on, or the hospitals shut down by the loss of power, or the fires caused by the sudden shorting out and possibly explosion of millions of transformers.

[Johnny Rico]

137. The big question is whether or not an EMP attack would kill the power grid & all transportation.

If it did, the resulting starvation would probably kill 90% of Americans.

They question is, just how vulnerable are cars, trains, aircraft, and the grid to EMP?

[4th law of robotics]

76. Funny thing about being able to retaliate . . .

it's predicated on *first* being attacked.

So we "win" in the sense that we're only mostly screwed over and they're completely screwed over. Hurray!

[immoderate]

92. So should we nuke them first -- based on science fiction?

They'll zap our grid, and send in invaders? How many would they need?

--imm

[B2G]

93. Love your tagline...so appropriate.

[4th law of robotics]

102. No, we should employ our tragically poor reading skills to completely misinterpret the response

You implied we have no reason to fear being attacked because once we were attacked we could like totally kick their asses and stuff.

I pointed out that what we do *after* we are attacked does little to prevent the attack that occurred earlier.

How you got "preemptive nuclear strike" from that is anyone's guess.

[immoderate]

118. My main idea is an EMP attack is ridiculous. No one will attempt it.

What would it cost, and who knows if it would be effective? And then what would "they" do? Invade?

All very silly.

--imm

[4th law of robotics]

119. Crashing a plane in to a building is ridiculous. No one will attempt it.

Who knows if it would be effective? And we could totally still retaliate afterwards.

They wouldn't be able to use that to take over the US. It wouldn't kill all Americans or guarantee that the US is taken out forever.

Won't happen.

Ever.

You can bet on that.

Now enough of these silly hypotheticals . .

[4th law of robotics]

127. "if a bunch of camel jockeys can hijack some planes"

Wow.

then they could construct a fleet of ICBMs surreptitiously, arm them with nuclear warheads, explode them in a pattern to blanket cover the US without anyone finding out, -- that's silly. I bet you think Newt isn't paranoid.

That is, by far, one of the most idiotic misrepresentations of someone else's argument I have ever seen. Idiotic even for the internet.

Claim: they could possibly buy one on the black market (what with the collapse of the soviet union and them having tremendous oil money) and detonate it in/near some city forcing the nearby survivors to make do on their own for a long while before the government can help them.

Your interpretation: these camel jockeys are going to construct a fleet of ICBMs . . . .

Amazing.

Is english your first language?

If any of our missiles (world wide) still operate, we will vaporize them.

Ah yes, with the star wars missile defense system that . . . never was built.

Amazing we had such a to-do over the cold war. We could just vaporize missiles at will. Even ones smuggled in to our cities via an unsearched cargo ship.

[TheWraith]

124. We know electromagnetic pulses happen and work because of science.

You seem to be under the impression that this is just a wild idea somebody cooked up without actually checking if it's possible. You're mistaken. Hell, back in the 1960s during one high altitude nuclear test the US military accidentally fried parts of the power grid 900 miles away.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime

[immoderate]

125. I didn't say impossible. I said ridiculous.

And your example illustrates why. The effects are not predictable.

The attack would be an immensely expensive undertaking that might not work.


--imm

[TheWraith]

126. It was "unpredictable" in 1962 when we didn't know anything about it.

Today it's very much predictable. Again: it's called science.

[4th law of robotics]

128. I think the poster you are responding to is profoundly ignorant on this subject

I don't mean that as an insult per se, just going by his responses.

1) he doesn't seem to think an EMP is a real effect.
2) he believes it would take a coordinated strike by a "fleet" of missiles to do any real damage.
3) he claims that because it is expensive and risky no one would ever dare such a thing.
4) he thinks the only way to acquire nuclear weapons is by building them, purchasing one is impossible.
5) he believes we can "vaporize" missiles at will and thus are under no threat.
6) he also claims the only reason someone would dare attack the US is if they were A) sure we couldn't counter-attack and B) could launch a successful invasion afterwards (like what happened on 9/11 apparently).

And of course he believes the only threat is from "camel jockeys" (his phrase) who clearly are too stupid to put together anything requiring money, coordination, a hatred of the US, cooperation from rogue nuclear states, and/or a willingness to die in the process.

[TheWraith]

131. I think you're correct.

The irony is that in many ways an EMP attack is a lot less risky, in terms of the certainty of the outcome, than something like flying airliners into buildings. One high altitude blast targeting the eastern US would probably kill tens of thousands of people, between things like knocking airliners out of the sky, shutting down hospitals, wide area fires from exploding transformers, etcetera, and cause several hundred billion dollars in damage. I don't think that's particularly likely to happen any time soon, but to pretend that it somehow doesn't exist is pretty silly on the face of it.

[4th law of robotics]

136. The economic damage of 9/11 was tremendous

and that would be a boon compared to an EMP hitting the north east.

Also on the retaliation bit: easy enough to do if they claim credit. If it's just a missile fired from a rented cargo ship though?

Or one of 10,000 other possible scenarios.

Missiles don't come with barcodes. At least not ones that are useful afterwards. We would definitely retaliate against someone.

But of course that could be part of the point behind such an attack.

Also the post-event terror that would inspire would be tremendous. Assuming we could get things back under control how could the government reassure people that this won't happen again? Hijacking a plane is sorta a one time event. After that passengers wouldn't comply.

But with a missile? Good luck, unless we can actually vaporize them at will as some believe. Heh.

[B2G]

62. If you had read the link I provided

you would see that it's not just a nuke that can be the problem. Geomagnetic storms can produce similar results. We had a major one back in the 20's that would have been devastating to our current grid. There are also non-explosive devices that are small enough to fit in a suitcase that can cause severe damage.

But by all means, do keep laughing.

[Logical]

80. LOL, so are aliens and 9.0 earthquakes and super flu outbreaks!

[4th law of robotics]

68. As others have said and EMP is a real phenomenon

and should it ever happen to the US we'd be screwed.

[Marrah_G]

4. I think it's a good idea to keep a store of food, water and other necessities

I also think that like with many things you can go over board. But then again, if it's not hurting anyone and makes them feel safer then more power to 'em.

[Taverner]

5. I could see some of these folks making sure an EMP happens

Great Disappointment anyone?

[Odin2005]

6. These idiots will be sitting ducks to roving bands of starving brigands.

[NickB79]

14. Most of those idiots have more guns than some small countries. nt

[FSogol]

19. Except you can't eat or drink guns.

[Javaman]

21. +1...

that's why I always tell the various nuts out there, if and when a societal collapse occurs, a head of cabbage will be worth more than a pound of gold. And the knowledge of knowing how to grow food will be worth more than all the guns and bullets in the world.

[jwirr]

71. And the economic situation we find ourselves in now - rising prises, cuts to safety net programs -

is a good reason to prep for this. My family is at this moment raising bees, pigs, chickens, turkeys, lambs, geese, goats and a huge garden. We can to make sure we have enough food for the winter and have tools we may need to sustain ourselves.

We are very aware that our neighbors may not be doing any of this but we can always hope they catch on soon. At least some of them have been asking questions.

[dmallind]

38. No - but food and water doesn't block bullets

Hypothetical situation: We are neighbors. You have food. I have guns. We both want food and have no rule of law. Who do you think gets food?

[FSogol]

41. Spare me your masturbatory gun fantasies.

Ever see James Burke's "Connections." Guns might be great in the short term, but your long term survival requires working knowledge of the plow, not the sword (or gun).

[Johnny Rico]

63. Speaking of plows and guns...

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

[4th law of robotics]

70. "our long term survival requires working knowledge of the plow, not the sword (or gun)."

Long term survival also requires short term survival.

[jwirr]

72. Since I know how to garden etc. we will make a deal. You can hunt and protect us and we will feed

you and your family.

[surrealAmerican]

108. If the "rule of law" is the only thing that keeps you from killing your neighbors ...

... you have much bigger problems than can be solved with "emergency preparedness".


There are very few people who are actually amoral predators, even when they're hungry.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

52. Most of the well armed preppers are rural

And though in the long term food production is going to be more important, short term not so much.

Consider a major quake in SoCal. The food chain here is less than 2 days. Also without power, there will be no way to pump water. There will be lots of thirsty and hungry people wandering about in just a few days. Despite CA gun laws, there are still lots of firearms circulation, and not just with gang members. Violence is not an unreasonable expectation.

[4th law of robotics]

69. These people tend to stockpile both food and guns

Anyone who *just* stores guns will be in a bad spot. But people who store food/water and the weapons to keep them. . . well they might just make it.

[Mojorabbit]

7. I keep six months or so worth in my pantry of short and long storage items.

It has saved me lots as food prices have risen. I buy stuff in bulk that I use when on sale. I rotate my stuff. I don't drive cause Ihave MS so I love going into my pantry and having lots of options on what I will cook for dinner at night. I can't just jump in the car if I am out of something. When we had Charley come through it was over a week before we got power back. I am not worried about EMP though I have read some reputable articles saying the US is totally unprepared for such an event. It just is not on my radar to worry about.

[RobertEarl]

8. Well, the Sun could do it

This is a link to a long article that details quite well that the sun could send an EMP to Earth that could fry most of the electrical grid. And like Fukushima, when the power goes off at nuke plants, the plants overheat.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/7301-400-chernobyls-solar-flares-electromagnetic-pulses-and-nuclear-armageddon

Read a WSJ article on paper the other day about how the worries are building.

Saw an online article some months ago that NASA had said the sun was due to do its thing about Dec. 2012. Several days later NASA said: No we meant March of 2013. Heh

Here is a link to sunwatchers:
http://spaceweather.com/

So, Don, are ya still sure this is just a scam?

[Mojorabbit]

43. I knew I had read some articles on it earlier.Thanks for the links. nt

[RobertEarl]

45. Scary stuff, eh?

Anyway, what happened to the Don?

Just a hit and run post by the Don?

Does the Don ever come back and read responses?

[ProfessorGAC]

54. He Does

And, he's been responding to things he finds worthy of response for more than 10 years here.
GAC

[RobertEarl]

56. That's cute

He has you as his proxy?

[ProfessorGAC]

94. Snarkiness Has No Effect On Me

No, he's a friend of mine. I surely hope that's ok.
GAC

[TheWraith]

129. While solar flares are real, that article is fantasy.

You really shouldn't rely on TruthOut for anything which depends on actual facts. There are Michael Bay movies with more plausible scenarios than what they describe there. A major solar flare would cause serious damage to the electrical grid, but that's it. No "armageddon."

[RobertEarl]

133. I trust Truthout more than a Wraith

NASA has said as much: that solar could take out the grid.

And a group of scientists have presented the fact to congress.

Even the WSJ had an article about the problem.

[-..__...]

9. "TEOTWAWKI"...

I'm not that paranoid (or biblicaly speaking), that it will happen in my lifetime, nor am I that naive or

ignorant that it can't happen (Murphy's law), I'm just relegated to the fact that I can only prepare so much

and in the end I'll die anyways (hopefully, painlessly).

[abelenkpe]

10. We try to keep ourselves ready for an earthquake

But that's about it. North ridge sucked so no need to repeat that.

[Javaman]

23. Yeah, Northridge did suck. I was living in Burbank when it hit...

I got minor damage, but a buddy of mine who lived in Reseda got hit really hard. I remember taking extra 2 1/2 gallon water jugs over to his place, because they had no running water. So many more stories, and I'm sure you have your share as well.

[B2G]

28. Loma Prieta was no picnic either

Convinced me to move out of California.

[progressivebydesign]

86. I think the PNW is considered a pretty safe bet...

but frankly, I lived in California for 44 years.. thru earthquakes, fires, all kinds of things. I'd take an earthquake over a tornado, hurricane, massive killer heat wave, or volcanic eruption, any day.

[ZombieHorde]

11. I should keep an extra stash of goods in the wintertime,

because the weather conditions can become difficult, but I don't always do it.

[jp11]

12. There are of course scam artists out to take advantage of people

from selling kits/shelters/etc to teaching courses they may not be qualified to do or just plain lying about things.

Wanting to be prepared, somewhat, isn't a sickness. For some it can be, taking steps to provide a certain level of preparedness is wise cashing out your life savings or turning your life upside, ditching your relatives/family/friends or going into debt 'cause the world's gonna end' is crazy.

I'd add that the more people ready themselves to not rely on others for SO MUCH of their daily needs is a good thing.

[napoleon_in_rags]

13. Prepping is total sanity.

I mean, not in all cases: I remember watching this show Doomsday preppers, that featured a man who took his sons out for firearms training, and while the show was filming, accidentally shot his thumb off. Another who was doing his arms training and such, who made the promise to keep his wife safe through the apocalypse, but she was dying of cancer during the filming. Being over fixated on arms and security is foolishness. The military is not going down, and that means when the shit hits the fan, a tank pulls up in front of your house, and you're recruited, with the weapon they give you, doing patrols of your neighborhood and saluting private Gomer Volunteer along with the rest of your platoon. But as far as food, sustainability, medical, lasting supplies - this is just pure wisdom. I wish we had more of a prepper culture on the left.

[NickB79]

15. If you follow the environmental/ecological news, it is only a matter of time before hardships set in

Global warming is pretty much locked in at this point to the tune of 4-5C warming by 2100, with all the predicted side-effects already starting to occur (more unpredictable weather, crop failures, flooding, drought, famine, heatwaves, species extinction, etc). We've passed Peak Oil, and without another recession to crush economic growth, demand for fossil fuels will start to outpace supply and drive energy prices further upward. Long-term, both of these crises have the potential to throw large parts of the world into civil unrest and years of grinding economic hardship. This doesn't even take into consideration the CURRENT economic turmoil we're seeing in many world markets.

That said, most preppers I've seen go about their preparations all wrong. They expect a sudden, cataclysmic blow to bring civilization to it's knees, with the obscene hope that most of humanity will be so unprepared that they quickly die out before they can pose much of a threat to their little bunkers in the wilderness. The reality is that when our civilization does collapse (if we aren't already in the early stages of collapse), it will be a slow, drawn-out process that will take decades before some degree of stability is reached. Packing a stockroom of canned food and ammo won't be nearly as useful in a slow collapse scenario as learning how to grow and store your own food, live on less, and get to know who you can rely on for help in your community.

[Javaman]

24. +1

The slow emergency.

[napoleon_in_rags]

111. +1 good post.

There can only be a short period of time where arms and food like that are necessary. Humans tend toward social order, so its really skills like medical and agricultural that will be found valuable by any social order, and therefore there is safety in knowing.

[JDPriestly]

16. Here in the earthquake district of Southern California,

keeping emergency supplies -- water, food, candles, flashlights, lots of batteries, bandages, a pretty full gas tank, etc. are pretty standard.

Sooner or later, we will have a good-sized earthquake. I've lived through several small ones. For us, it isn't a matter of being paranoid. It's simply being realistic.

So it depends on where you are. If you live in the Midwest (as I did at one time), you need to be ready for a tornado. And if you live along the Gulf coast (also did that years ago), you have to be ready for a hurricane.

It isn't paranoia. You don't have to exaggerate. But as we saw in New Orleans, it is irrational not to think about what you should do in case of an emergency.

[TexasProgresive]

17. If civilization collapses any preparation is likely delaying the inevitable.

Maybe so like the Amish or primitive tribes in remote lands will survive but for most of us who are caught in the web of ubiquitous technology that permeates every aspect of our lives would be reduced to a state lower than any primitive. There would be a lot of stealing and killing by those skilled enough in the arts of war but then they too would die because they don't have the skills to grow and preserve food and water.

Sorry to be so pessimistic and maybe collapse will not come. It is certainly not something to look forward too.

A simple test-
1) Do you know what and how to grow food crops and how to save seed for next year's crop?
2) Do you know how to "make meat" from a living animal?
3) Do you know how to preserve that meat?
4) And once that is done, do you know how to protect yourself and your goods from marauding bandits who will kill you and take your hard earned food?

My problem is that I know just how difficult 1,2 and 3 are and know that 4 is next to impossible- if civilization fails "fort main" might is right will rule there is no Camelot.

[Javaman]

27. My plan for all of the above...

open a saloon.

[coalition_unwilling]

78. Who needs those headaches? My plan: patronize a saloon :) - n/t

[jwirr]

81. LOL that would work in my area!!!!

[Mojorabbit]

47. Yes to all the above

but I learned a lot of it in the back to the land hippy days of the 70's and over the years have added to my knowledge. We have a small but growing sustainability and permaculture movement/community here so people are working together to make a difference and down the road these groups may be the seeds to transitioning to more small local communities that are somewhat self sustaining.

[jwirr]

79. Your point is well taken - we know how to do 1-3 but have never had to deal with 4. Ready but

untried. Am hoping that as the situation grows worse the at least in the rural area we live in we will be able to create an atmosphere of unity among our neighbors to work together to survive.

A slow emergency will make it easier to band together as there will be evidence of the need all around us. An immediate crash would make that almost impossible. I have little hope for cities and their surrounding areas.

[NickB79]

96. I scored 4 for 4. What do I win?

On edit: With regard to #4, I've actually been in a potential life-or-death situation where I was forced to point a loaded firearm at someone (didn't have to pull the trigger though, thank God), so I do know how far I will go to protect my family, without hesitation.

[JHB]

18. How are these guys different from "survivalists"?

Sounds like they just switched their name for PR purposes.

In the 80s it was about the inevitable total nuclear war. In the 90s it was about either the impending UN takeover using the Chinese Red Army or about the impending Y2K apocalypse. In the oughts it was a local government version "Here, Have Some DHS Grants to Buy Military Swag". Then a certain party lost the White House and now it's backe to Zombie Apocolypse-Land.

Buy up! Be prepared! (And whatever you do, don't remember the last pile of horseshit we sold you)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

31. Many ways

Most of the preppers I know are not political, do not believe the end is at hand, or even consider TEOTAWAKI. They do split into two major groups...long term and short term. I am the latter.

Long term people are preparing for years. Their focus is living off the land and farming. The ability to be self sufficient is paramount. They are the ones the TV shows are being made about and indeed some of those have odd politics

Short term preppers are concerned with things less than a year, most less than 90 days. The focus is earthquakes, floods, tornadoes, or other localized disruption. The goal is to survive until help gets there and things get reestablished. Few in this category are political. That means food, water, medical, and gear that can fit in a closet. No bunkers here.

I live in in SoCal. The big one is coming. Not sure when, but being able to get by while things are being sorted out is a smart idea. That is my version of prepping.

[JHB]

34. Ok. Different definitions, then

I don't count short termers as being in the same category; those sorts of preparations are prudent precautions against local disasters.

I suppose even the long-termers are split between tread lightly/low footprint self-sufficiency people and the ones who are Waiting for Mad Max.

Personally, I'd thought of these as three separate groups, rather than linking them together as "preppers".

[Nuclear Unicorn]

37. "the ones who are Waiting for Mad Max."

Ooh! can I get my hubby a pair of assless chaps?

[belcffub]

110. all chaps are assless

[ProgressiveProfessor]

55. I separate the survivalists from the preppers of either stripe

Those I would call survialists tend not to have done the research, consider things like medical supplies, schooling, and sanitation. They are more of mountain man fetishists.
Originally long term preppers were lumped in with the survivalists. Today there seems to be a clear demarcation.

Recently I have met urban survialists (not preppers). They tend to be young thug lites who's views resemble that of a GTA installment. That does scare me.

[jwirr]

83. I have been the driving force behind my families prepping for the long term. We all got to know my

father and mother who lived in the 20-60s and were much more self-sufficient than most of us are today. We learned to admire them and in the end envy them their freedom. When I was small we did not even have electricity for a time. Carried our own water and heated with space heaters (wood stoves mostly). Yes it was hard work but it was satisfying. As my children got older I kept their way of life in plain view. And recently when my son-in-law got laid off at the age of 50 with no jobs in sight he came to me and said, "I want to be a farmer." I understood immediately what he was talking about - my dad. Today he is well on his way to that freedom that they had. Long term prepper? We do not think of ourselves that way. We are not buying into the rat race that my parents refused to buy into. And they raised 4 children and helped the neighbors when it was necessary. Oh, by today's standards we were poor but we had food, a roof over out heads, water, warmth and love.

What we did not have was medical assistance and I think that is the real problem with long term planning. I have no answers for that problem. When my baby brother was born the hospital bill was less than $50. When my grandson was born it was over $2000. God only knows what it is now. Also doctors back then did a lot of charity work for the really poor. Some do today but I wonder if they are enough. So you see we do not think we have it all figured out.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

61. I'm not a prepper or survivalist... and I don't support them.

But I don't know how you can laugh at people for "prepping" in the 60s, 70s or 80s for nuclear war. It's not like possible nuclear war was some bizarre science fiction that could never have happened. I think we were "lucky" on more than one occasion.

[Javaman]

20. I live in tornado country...

having a good emergency supply of food, water and basic necessities is always a good idea.

Beyond that, I grow some of my own food, keep bees and have my own water tanks for my garden.

Beyond that, it's anyones guess.

but knowing basic survival skills and how to repair things is always good.

After the Northridge Earthquake (I live out there when that happened), my mind completely changed. being prepared in the event of natural disasters is always a very good thing.

[adigal]

49. There was a series done on dailykos.com a few years ago

about how to survive short term disaster. I didnt' do many of the things on it, but it was very interesting.

[Javaman]

57. Just remember the rule of "3's"...

you need food and water and shelter for 3 days. In normal circumstances and given a normal response time (Katrina did change this concept), you should be okay.

You die in 3 weeks without food. You die in 3 days without water. You could die in 3 hours without proper shelter.

Granted these are very general but you get the idea.

and one very last thing, you should know how to make a fire via 3 different methods. Raw materials (rubbing two sticks together), chemical materials (combining two agents that cause a chemical reaction that results in fire ) and pre-made materials (matches or a flint strike stone).

Cheers.

[melm00se]

25. Like many things

if done in moderation it is practical but taken to extremes it becomes paranoia.

Personally, I think the 72 hour suggestion is a little light on some things as it is quite possible that you could be dislocated for more than that.

If people can make legitimate money filling this need more power to them.

[slackmaster]

26. I live where there is a significant probability of a major earthquake with widespread damage.

It's not difficult for me to envision a scenario in which basic infrastructure - Water, electricity, food, police, fire, and paramedic service, etc. are disrupted for several days.

Prepping for that kind of scenario seems like a sensible policy. With the food and water I keep on hand, I'm good for at least two weeks.

[Bluenorthwest]

48. Quake prep site from State of CA...lots of good information

http://www.shakeout.org/

[ProgressiveProfessor]

58. Its a good place to start

People need to take the information and lists and then do what is right for them.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

29. It makes sense, to a point

I live in the SoCal and the big one is coming. Spending some time thinking about what you need for you and yours is a very smart thing. The most important thing is a plan for you and your family, especially if there are younger children. Once you understand your needs, things like supplies etc flow from there. A good plan will minimize your investment and maximize dual use. A garage full of stuff you have never used is not the right approach.

The interest in some level of prepping is going up quickly. Yes there are charlatans, but most are well meaning though I find some of their scenarios preposterous. If you think the gas mask guys are crazy, talk to the pandemic ones. Regardless, even Costco is selling long term food kits these days. The problem is that you can't just buy a 3 day pack back for every family member and call it good. Much more upfront thinking is required and some experience.

As for me, I live in the desert, a long way away from just about anything. I have a well, septic, solar, and a generator. Though grid tied, I can live pretty well for a while, and am set up for 90 days. The big question for me is what do I do if I am not at home when it hits.

My vision is to be able to ride out a major disturbance while things get sorted out, certainly not TEOTAWAKI. I expect those who do not have at least a plan or believe the government will handle it will suffer grievously, and I have family who is in that mode.

One of the major benefits to the preppers is that more people are looking at what it will mean to live on immediate renewables like solar cookers and electricity from solar cells. A good thing IMO.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

36. I think of it as another form of insurance

Only you get to walk to your pantry and eat instead of waiting for some corporate bureaucrat to cut you a check so you can navigate potentially devastated roads to a grocery store that may or may not be there or a government distribution center that is probably run as well as a DMV office cobbled together on the fly.

Besides, for everyone of us that has a prep plan we are 1 less household drawing from what will -- by definition -- be a social system already hit by a disaster. Self-reliance makes it easier for those less-prepared or harder-hit to access supplies and services. Sometimes charity really does begin at home.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

33. Lover Boy is a "semi-prepper"

We have a store of food and our garden is starting to take shape. We read Mother Earth News and Home Handyman. We have generator and a are getting a few small solar panels later this summer; nothing big but they will run the well pump. We have 3 chickens and 2 goats. Wild game is all over the place (though I haven't let him shoot anything yet). Obviously his army service and medical training are a plus and we have 2 pistols in the home.

He jokingly dismisses it as preparing for the zombie apacolypse but we live in the country where EMS response is around 30 minutes. In the winter the odds of getting hit by a blizzard that knocks out power and leaves us cut off for a week or more are better than even. Two weeks "trapped" would not be unreasonable. It's not IF we get hit hard, it's WHEN.

However, in the meantime we have fresh veggies, eggs and milk. We work together. We tend our land. A couple of weekends ago we took a break from gardening to have a picnic lunch and when we were done he laid back in the grass and I cuddled up next to him in his arms. The ground was cool, the sun was warm and his kid sister was picking wild flowers while he dozed off for a few minutes.

To us, that was "prepping." If prepping is crazy I love crazy.

[Bluenorthwest]

46. Here's the CDC on the Zombie Apocalypse

For your amusement.
http://www.cdc.gov/phpr/zombies.htm

[sendero]

40. I am not preparing.

... for things that I don't think will happen. I'm preparing for things I think have a 25% or better chance of happening.

It would take very very little for food distribution to be disrupted for a period of time. To not have some food/water on hand is nuts IMHO.

And, to repeat a quote I once heard "You (people who don't prepare) have to be right every day, I (people who are prepared) only have to be right once."

[jwirr]

89. Your last sentence discribes the freedom that my parents demonstrated to all of us their entire life

[sarcasmo]

42. I have a month worth of food and water in the house at all times.

After watching the mess in Katrina, I figured it was smarter to stay home and ride out the chaos.



Edit, because I had to go check the pantry to see how long the two of us could last.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. If you do not prep for disasters that are actual potentials where you live, you are nuts....

Also, trying to 'prep' for cataclysms unforeseen and random is nuts. If 'society collapses' no prep is going to help much. On the other hand, not prepping for a quake in quake country or a tornado in those places is just daft.

[Johnny Rico]

50. Practical. I have a month's worth of food and water stored.

And since I collect WW2 rifles and pistols, I certainly have the firearms end of it covered...

On the other hand, I don't see a lot of practicality to prepping for much more than that period of time. I'm having trouble imagining a scenario in which I need more than a month or two of food where civilization hasn't utterly collapsed. There are preppers ready for that sort of contingency who live in isolated communities, have years of food stored, and the knowledge and means to grow more...but I'm not willing to go to those lengths for a variety of reasons.

[4th law of robotics]

73. It's like any generally good idea: some people take it to unhealthy extremes

granted they are harmless so I don't see any need to prevent people from dedicating their lives to the upcoming apocalypse but it's probably a bit much.

That being said we'd be better off if everyone made the effort to stockpile at least some emergency supplies (food, water, basic medical equipment etc) and had some reasonable and flexible plan in their heads for if things go south.

And of course the most valuable preparation is keeping up with your health and educating yourself as much as possible (take a CPR course every now and then).

I don't think any of that should be enforced on anyone, but it's a really good idea. Keep a kit in your car with some water and food (like a small duffel bag, it isn't that big of a deal) and a larger one in your house that is appropriate for your environment and your needs.

[progressivebydesign]

88. there are two types of preppers, and within that there are people with mental disorders.

the one type is the political survivalists... they do all the same things, usually with lots more guns, and always in response to some manufactured political monsters that are coming to get them.

then there is the live off the land types, who want to be self sufficient for any type of disaster, but in there you have the paranoids that take it to an extreme, too.

For average people, it's great to have a good supply of stuff in case of an emergency. With all that America has been thru in the past 200+ years or so, and how close we've been to world wars and on the brink of beng attacked, we haven't had to live off the cabbage we canned in our basement. I think the internet has made a lot of people pretty crazy.

[aikoaiko]

82. There are scams, but being prepared for 72 hrs, 2 wks or 1 mth emergencies is not unreasonable.

Where I live, the biggest problem is a hurricane. I will leave town immediately with my family if one comes this way, but then we'll have to return after 2-3 days and there is a good chance there won't be any electricity for a few weeks. Its better to have stuff where you need it when you need it, rather than have to scrounge around for everything after an emergency.

If the hurricane is so bad that the house is gone, then I head to AZ to drop my family off at my parents.

Does that sound like a scam to you?

[progressivebydesign]

84. Timely. My GlennBeckite neighbors are in FULL panic mode right now...

they have just put up a $%$& ham radio tower RIGHT next to our driveway/kitchen door. They have been babbling about the upcoming collapse of America for the past year, because Glenn Beck SAID that it's going to happen. So, after Beck did a show 6 weeks ago about getting your ham radio going, they put the stupid tower up. Bet they're stupid enough to buy gold from Glenn's advertisers, too.

The thing that pisses me off is that their tower can actually listen in on our cordless phone conversations, and probably interrupt our electronics at home.. ALL so they can listen to right wing insanery, and communicate when President Obama and the other "secret Muslims" collapse the Govt.

Glad we don't own this house... they've just destroyed any chance of selling it by erecting that stupid two 1/2 story tower next to our house.

[NNN0LHI]

90. The tower will not allow your neighbor to listen in on your hard wired phone calls

And if you use a cell or a portable phone the tower won't help either. I have a radio that fits in the palm of my hand, antenna included, that will do that though.

And if they erected that tower where if it blows down it will end up on your property I would call the city building inspector to look things over. And they do blow down if not erected correctly. That would be my greatest concern if I were you.

Don

[Ikonoklast]

121. If you get RF interference in any electronic system in your house, you can alert the FCC.

They take complaints like that very, very, very seriously.

You must document what type of appliance or device is impacted and when the interference occurs, you can't make unsubstantiated accusations, but if there is stray RF interference coming from your neighbors, the FCC will come out and investigate.

They play hardball over issues such as this.

[wa0auu]

138. if you get RF interference in any electronic system in your house, you can alert the FCC

Well, you can, however you also need to know that works in REVERSE, that is, IF YOU have something that makes RF interference on my HAM RADIO equipment, I can report YOU to the FCC to ! It could be your fan speed control, your electric blanket, your computer, your sat. tv equipment, all of them make RF noise in our ham radio equipment. I have been a ham radio operator for 56 years and I have seen it all. I had a neighbor with a bad electric cloths dryer, the contacts on the timer were bad, after putting up with it for years, i reported him to the FCC, he received a letter and then was inspected by the FCC and got so mad .....he MOVED ! You need to understand just how sensitive our receivers are, we are not trying to listen to the radio station 75 miles away putting out 5,000 watts, we are trying to listen to a radio station on the other side of the world putting out 5 watts ! Most of the time you will have no problems as long as you
1 keep the wires SHORT
2 use shielded wire ONLY with the shield going to ground
3 buy GOOD tv and sound equipment and not some hunk of junk
and
4 before you report your ham neighbor to the FCC, go talk to him, please

[Zalatix]

85. It's always wise to be prepared. You need three simple things:

1) A garden or a farm.
2) Tradable life/survival skills that you can barter with, if money is worthless.
3) A CLOSE-KNIT COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE YOU CAN TRUST.

These things never go out of style and are excellent things to have whether you are facing a global economic crisis or not.

[Liberal_in_LA]

87. youtube is prepper land! Some of them are preparing years of preps. search youtube = prepper, shtf

[Proud Liberal Dem]

95. what exactly we are talking about happening?

[Johnny Rico]

97. It depends on the level of "prepping" involved.

Let's call it "light", "medium", and "heavy" prepping for these purposes.

Light: You're prepared to be on your own for a few days to a week at most, as which point the authorities will come to your aid (you hope). We're speaking of blackouts, riots, natural disasters, etc.

Medium: You're prepared to be on your own for an extended period...weeks, perhaps a couple of months. Here we're speaking of disasters that have not (as of yet) ever hit the USA...terrorist nukes, bio-weapon attacks, a partially successful EMP attack, economic disaster (but not complete collapse).

Heavy: You're prepared to be on your own for the rest of your life. You probably live in an isolated but like-minded community. Here we're speaking of civilization-ending disasters...full-out nuclear war, a fully successful EMP attack, complete economic collapse.

This is rather over-generalized, but I hope it helps.

[Posteritatis]

98. Past the 72-hour thing most of my "prep" is limited to reading alien space bat novels. (nt)

[Johnny Rico]

99. Have you read Island in the Sea of Time by S. M. Stirling?

ASBs are mentioned as such when people grope for an explanation of how Nantucket Island has been sent back to 1250 BCE.

Fun book.

[Posteritatis]

103. I'm actually reading the third book in that series right now. (nt)

[4th law of robotics]

105. I liked the first few books in his "dies the fire" series

after that he leans a little too hard on the fantasy for my taste.

[Johnny Rico]

106. I agree. His "Island in the Sea of Time" series is indirectly connected to "Dies the Fire".

I very much preferred "Island in the Sea of Time", in which the island of Nantucket is sent back in time to 1250 BCE and the residents have to, well...cope. Other than the time shift, there's no handwavium where physics itself changes, though. This is a good thing.

You might want to give his "Draka" alternate history series a try, bearing in mind that it's a very grim dystopia.

[4th law of robotics]

115. I've read all the draka series

a very good read, albeit dark as you say.

I guess my general rule of thumb with Sterling is that I enjoy his fiction as long as he leaves out the fantasy. One implausible plot point per storyline (The Event, time travel, etc) is just fine. No need to throw in magic.

Have you read the The Peshawar Lancers? Kinda steam-punk alternate history.

Turtledove is another author who, in my opinion, can do really decent alternate history *if* he limits himself to a few books. After that it just comes across as tired.

/your name isn't by any chance a starship troopes reference is it?

//10,000 internet bucks if you can guess where I got mine.

[Johnny Rico]

116. I agree. As a general rule, one "gimme" per story.

Have you read the The Peshawar Lancers? Kinda steam-punk alternate history.

I have; I rather liked it, though as I recall there was an extra "gimme" in that as well (the young girl who had visions of alternate timelines).

Turtledove is another author who, in my opinion, can do really decent alternate history *if* he limits himself to a few books. After that it just comes across as tired.

He does seem to be getting into a rut lately; how many times can he re-fight WW2 (this time, with *magic*!)? While his latest book about the Yellowstone supervolcano is a departure for him, I can't recommend it. It seems like he phoned it in...we learn fare more about the character's love affairs then the actual eruption and its effects!

your name isn't by any chance a starship troopes reference is it?

It certainly is!

10,000 internet bucks if you can guess where I got mine.

Hm...obviously a take on Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics...as I recall, in one of the later Foundation novels featuring the Robot Daneel (sp?) he managed to "invent" a Fourth Law, but I don't remember what it was.

Wikipedia!

A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.

[4th law of robotics]

117. Yep, it's also

as I read somewhere the unwritten law of robotics: all evil robots must have red eyes.

[ZombieHorde]

107. I think prepping can be done for both practical reasons and paranoid reasons. nt

[kudzu22]

109. It's a fine line

between practical and paranoid. I think some prepping is a good thing. Everyone should be able to survive 3 days on what's in their house. Some would say a month is reasonable. Ten years -- then you're into kook territory.

[HuckleB]

112. People have been "prepping" for all of human history, it seems.

It's no way to live.

[TLM]

113. Prepping is Paranoia....

Just ask those folks in the superdome....

[Amaril]

120. I'm "planning" for.......

....a big fucking asteroid to hit Earth, and I want to be at ground zero; swinging in my hammock, sipping a margarita and watching it as it falls.

Seriously. I have no interest in hanging around for a bunch of Mad Max apocolyptic nonsense; scrounging for water and defending my cans of tuna with a shotgun. No thank you.

[LanternWaste]

130. More dystopian post-apocalyptic pre-pubescent fantasies

More dystopian post-apocalyptic, pre-pubescent fantasies borne of hack-authored, badly written sci-fi novellas... which dove-tails nicely with the End-Timers religious movements-- "just send us money and..."



They may as well wear a sandwich board reading "the end is nigh" while hawking their Provisions for the Perpetually Paranoid.



And speaking of prophets, the end-times, and bad science-fiction...

[cynatnite]

134. We always have something for a few days in case of natural disaster...

I'm not planning for a complete breakdown of society where it's every man for himself and all that. I can get that by watching TV.