False framing in Greece

[cthulu2016]

The developed framing of the Greek question is:

1) It would be a disaster for Greece to be forced out of the Euro
2) Thus Greece needs to accept whatever the European Central Bank demands

This framing suggests that Greece is the active party here... that Greece faces a decision. Since both options in that decision are bad the matter devolves into an argument about the relative merits of two bad choices.

The real-world, sensible framing of the Greek question is:

1) It would be a disaster for EVERYBODY for Greece to be forced out of the euro AT THIS JUNCTURE. (Regardless of the fact that Greece should never have been in the euro to start with.)
2) Thus the European economic powers and the European Central Bank need to find a way to keep Greece in the euro that the voters of Greece will accept.

Who has the ultimate responsibility to maintain economic health and stability in Europe? The Greek voters or the immense infrastructure and interlocked interests that exist to maintain economic health and stability in Europe?

Since a Greek exit would be very bad for the entire eurozone the eurozone is obliged to find a solution. Expressing frustration that Greek voters are ingrates or deadbeats or commies is doubtless amusing to the big money players but it obviously does not constitute a solution. The voters in Greece are part of an objective economic equation, not a morality play.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

1. Add in the variable that Greece has to repay what it borrows.

Greece needs to borrow to pay for what it cannot fund on its own, i.e. police, food, sanitation, teachers. No one is going to lend money to Greece if they cannot get it back. You can't force the rest of the EU to give up their money. Thus, Greece has to demonstrate a viable plan and political willingness to repay what it borrows. Right or wrong that's just the plain truth of it.

[aquart]

3. Not really. As I read the OP, the onus is on Europe, not Greece.

Europe can't handle losing Greece in the Eurozone so Europe has to come up with a solution. And that may mean a secretive deal about debt forgiveness, or kiting payback to the great grandchildren.

Debt payback is not as important as debt, ask your credit card company.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

5. Actually the CC companies have to maintain assets

So, they do need you to pay them back and if you don't pay them they have no money to give to the merchants so the merchants stop accepting their product.

[Nye Bevan]

2. My deadbeat brother-in-law has been mooching off the family for years.

Lately I've been lending him some money so that he can eat and pay the rent. In exchange, he has promised to look for a better, regular job and to cut back on frivolous expenses. So everything seemed to be going well.

But a couple of weeks ago he called me (he sounded a little drunk) and berated me, even though I am the person who has been helping him. Screw you, he said, I don't want a regular job. And I enjoy spending money, I'm not going to cut back. But he wants me to keep the checks coming, because he needs the money.

I am losing my patience with him.

[aquart]

4. If you stop lending him money does your money lose value and destroy you?

It seemed like a good analogy at the time, I guess.

On edit: Throwing a bone....Europe's best leverage that I'm noticing is that the Greek flight capital is running into Germany which gives Germany heavy clout.

[cthulu2016]

6. The point here is...

that if cutting of your brother-in-law is actually worse for you than not doing so then you can try to cajole, threaten or manipulate him into doing what you want but if that fails you don't have any choice.

Unless you wanted to absorb the down-side to yourself and to others just to make a moral point to him.

The US could have said the same thing about all the teachers and fire-fighters who were paid through the stimulus package. Those states should have raised the money to pay their own damn employees instead of having the federal government pick up the tab.

But we did it anyway because those state and local employees being laid off would have been worse for the whole nation.