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DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 01:00 PM Sep 2015

A very damning, very long article. China is fucked environmentally, economically and politically.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/31478-china-s-communist-capitalist-ecological-apocalypse

Very, very long article.

It starts on China's environment, where gigantic swaths of agrarian land, rivers, groundwater and air are polluted due to rampant corruption and environmental laws simply aren't enforced.

It continues with gigantic investment boondoggles. China is building stuff like crazy, although it doesn't need it. China is building surplus houses, hospitals, stadiums, skyscrapers, bridges, highways, ports, air-ports, rail-ways, sub-ways, shipyards, auto-plants, shopping-malls, "financial centers"... that nobody needs and that lie around unused.
China has 64 million empty apartments.
To repeat:
China has 64 million empty apartments.
And they keep building and building.

It continues with China's rampant political corruption. Those in power aren't in power because they were elected. Or because they are competent or otherwise noteworthy. China is ruled by a mafia-like network of protection and favors (guanxi).
For example: President Xi Jinping is worth $2.7 billion. He never owned stocks or shares or made investments or received any other salary than that of an ordinary politician. So how did he get $2.7 billion?
A chinese author wrote a tell-all book about Xi Jinping and wanted to publish it in Hong Kong. The first publisher was kidnapped and never seen again. The second publisher received a phone-call from Beijing with a friendly reminder that he and his family will be killed if he publishes that book.

The article wanders on to the economy. All of China's economic key-sectors are dominated (and in some cases monopolized) by state-owned entities. These aren't corporations! There is no board of directors! These pseudo-corporations are ultimately tools of the communist party and their purpose is not to make money. Their purpose is to further the interests of the communist party. Even if such a state-owned entity is shoddily run and loses money, it doesn't matter. It won't get you fired as long as it serves the interests of the communist party.

If chinese state-owned entities don't have shares, where do China's millionaires and billionaires come from?
Corruption and theft.
Everybody embezzles government-money left and right as much as he can and as fast as he can and he can do so with impunity because he shares the loot with a network of other influential people.

China isn't communist. China is ruled by a warring feudal network of mafia-like circles, vying for influential positions where they can fleece China for even more money. (Sometimes one of them gets sacrificed, like Bo Xilai, to pretend that China is fighting corruption.) At the very peak are China's economic and political elite, the 26 descendants of 8 communist politicians who inherited their positions of power from their fathers.

The police! The courts and the police could do something about this! Actually, No, they can't: Sometimes they get bribed, sometimes somebody along the route of enforcement gets bribed or is already part of the network that protects the embezzlement or the company that dumps toxic waste squarely on the ground, right next to a village-school.
1,575 corruption investigators were busted for corruption in 2014. And Xi Jinping's anti-corruption campaign smacks more of a purge of rivals.
Recently the question was raised on the internet: Why have no 'big tigers' (big criminals) been found in Fujian and Zhejiang? The message was almost immediately deleted.
China has even cut back on its campaign of rooting out corruption: Finding too much corruption would make the communist party look bad.

The Chinese Communist Party is locked in a death spiral. It can't rein in corruption because the party is built on corruption, thrives on corruption and can't police itself. It can't rein in ravenous resource consumption and suicidal pollution because, given its dependence on the market to generate new jobs, it has to prioritize growth over the environment like capitalist governments everywhere. It can't even discipline its own subordinate officials to enforce and obey the government's environmental, food and drug safety, building codes and similar laws because in this system subordinate officials aren't necessarily subordinate and can often mobilize their family and guanxi-based backers to defend their interests and thwart Beijing.
31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A very damning, very long article. China is fucked environmentally, economically and politically. (Original Post) DetlefK Sep 2015 OP
China is the closest country to pure Capitalism. Oneironaut Sep 2015 #1
Exactly! get the red out Sep 2015 #7
Mitt Romney wanted to model the US after China, remember! randys1 Sep 2015 #20
The clown car appeals to the brainwashed get the red out Sep 2015 #29
It's also one-party rule TexasMommaWithAHat Sep 2015 #19
Adam Smith would disagree with you. former9thward Sep 2015 #28
During the Bejing Olympics Bob Costas did a segment on building .... rufus dog Sep 2015 #2
VICE on HBO Cosmocat Sep 2015 #30
Is another Soviet style collapse in their future? procon Sep 2015 #3
Looks like they're about a hundred or so years behind us. TreasonousBastard Sep 2015 #4
When the head Honcho of Vanguard Funds Wellstone ruled Sep 2015 #5
K & R. Can we have our factories back? appalachiablue Sep 2015 #6
There is an obvious fact that refutes this whole piece GummyBearz Sep 2015 #8
In the words of the immortal Sheldon Cooper, "Is that sarcasm?" KamaAina Sep 2015 #9
Sometimes sarcasm is so obvious it doesn't need a tag Johnyawl Sep 2015 #11
Not around here! KamaAina Sep 2015 #13
Well, that is a good point, actually. ncjustice80 Sep 2015 #17
Mafia Capitalism... Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #24
Exactly RobinA Sep 2015 #31
And the USA isn't? MattSh Sep 2015 #10
yes, from Love Canal to fracking to the Kochs blocking solar power GreatGazoo Sep 2015 #14
Yep. Calls to shut down the car industry and fossil fuel power plants don't sell here. hunter Sep 2015 #16
Sounds like Supply side economics leads to bankruptcy. Baitball Blogger Sep 2015 #12
What's the difference between building empty apartments and building bombs and warships? lumberjack_jeff Sep 2015 #15
Was just wondering about that, so millions of empty apartments vs Rex Sep 2015 #18
Aren't they in the desert so they DON'T rust? FrodosPet Sep 2015 #21
how many of those could be recommissioned? onethatcares Sep 2015 #22
Contents: One Global Apocalypse. Made in the USA; Assembled in China. GliderGuider Sep 2015 #23
Corruption is the #1 problem in the 3rd world AND the US, which has legalized it. ErikJ Sep 2015 #25
One thing they have going KT2000 Sep 2015 #26
When I visited China, Bejing and Singapore had construction cranes as far as you could see Major Nikon Sep 2015 #27

Oneironaut

(5,477 posts)
1. China is the closest country to pure Capitalism.
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 01:08 PM
Sep 2015

The entire country lives (and dies) by money. The entire culture is one big cesspool of corruption, bribing, and apathy to social justice and welfare. This is what unchecked Capitalism does. Money poisons everything.

If you want a good metaphor, remember that little girl who was run over in China, and everybody just walked by her? That's the mentality there - "I've got mine - fuck everybody else!" We have people here (far right) that would love to turn the U.S. into the same thing.

get the red out

(13,460 posts)
7. Exactly!
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 01:39 PM
Sep 2015

And Donald Trump thinks they are better than us. Dear God.

I have been to China, there are beautiful things there, but the pollution stench took over all my sense of smell from the time our plane touched down. It would settle over whichever city we were in like morning fog that didn't go away. It simply has to be poisoning everybody. Sad and horrible.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
20. Mitt Romney wanted to model the US after China, remember!
Wed Sep 9, 2015, 04:21 PM
Sep 2015

But the LAST group of people who should point fingers are Americans who are actually considering electing, as President,

ANY of the clown car.

get the red out

(13,460 posts)
29. The clown car appeals to the brainwashed
Thu Sep 10, 2015, 08:22 AM
Sep 2015

I would bet a lot of people supporting the clown car has been affected in some way, themselves or family, by jobs lost to China. The brainwashing ability of these clowns and their media minions is astounding.

TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
19. It's also one-party rule
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 07:41 PM
Sep 2015

Some of the most corrupt cities and states were or are essentially ruled by one party.

I give you Louisiana as a shining example - the state has gone from extremely Democratic to extremely Republican, and the state was a cesspool of corruption under the democratic party and is a cesspool of corruption under the Republican party.

Imo, democracy works best when there are at least two parties - assuming one party isn't bat-shit crazy.

former9thward

(31,913 posts)
28. Adam Smith would disagree with you.
Wed Sep 9, 2015, 08:37 PM
Sep 2015

China is the total opposite of "pure capitalism". All of the large companies are totally state controlled. That is not capitalism, regulated or not.

 

rufus dog

(8,419 posts)
2. During the Bejing Olympics Bob Costas did a segment on building ....
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 01:18 PM
Sep 2015

The stat that blew my mind, they have more EMPTY office space compared to TOTAL office space in Manhattan. Ponder that! A stroll through Manhattan with every building empty. MSNBC also did a segment on China ghost towns. These things looked exactly like developments you would see in Irvine, CA, or Bay Area/San Diego developments. (Because they used the same architects) Huge, sprawling shopping malls, high rise condos, single family homes. And they were friggen empty. Locations and infrastructure to cover one half million people, empty.

So money spent to build, contractors and govt officials making cash, while infrastructure must be maintained and paid for.

It was only a matter of time before the house of cards started to crumble.

Cosmocat

(14,557 posts)
30. VICE on HBO
Thu Sep 10, 2015, 08:32 AM
Sep 2015

did a piece on this, too ...

Just bizarre, complete small cities, built brand new, with countless high rise apartments, very fancy, completely empty.

procon

(15,805 posts)
3. Is another Soviet style collapse in their future?
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 01:26 PM
Sep 2015

The ussr failed under the crushing costs of it's military expansion. Could China fail economically due to financial waste, fraud and corruption? What happens then I'm scared to imagine.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
5. When the head Honcho of Vanguard Funds
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 01:29 PM
Sep 2015

states he would not touch China with a ten foot pole. As well as any ETF's. Both are a train wreck that is happening real time. Both are a creation of the Wall Street Money Changers.

 

GummyBearz

(2,931 posts)
8. There is an obvious fact that refutes this whole piece
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 01:48 PM
Sep 2015

There are no white males in positions of power in the Chinese government.

This piece is obviously western biased propaganda, as the Chinese are an ancient people in tune with nature, who would never do anything mentioned in the article. Take this anti eastern, xenophobic piece else where, we don't believe it.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
9. In the words of the immortal Sheldon Cooper, "Is that sarcasm?"
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 01:56 PM
Sep 2015

You can indicate sarcasm by typing a colon, then 'sarcasm', then another colon, producing this:

ncjustice80

(948 posts)
17. Well, that is a good point, actually.
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 05:15 PM
Sep 2015

I have to be somewhat leery of any hit piece on China, since it

1. Smacks faintly of xenophobia/rascism

2. Also may be an attempt to trumpet capitalism over socialism/communism.

RobinA

(9,884 posts)
31. Exactly
Thu Sep 10, 2015, 08:49 AM
Sep 2015

I just read an piece on Salon that argued that the "West" is responsible for all ills of mankind since the beginning of time. This article cannot be true about the peace-loving utopia that is China. Unless.....wait....it's somehow the "West"'s fault that China is having problems. Yes, that must be it. The "West" came along and ruined meditative shangri-la that was China.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
14. yes, from Love Canal to fracking to the Kochs blocking solar power
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 03:32 PM
Sep 2015

the same shit goes on here. The specifics of the corruption are different, especially after Citizens United which legalized corruption.

hunter

(38,299 posts)
16. Yep. Calls to shut down the car industry and fossil fuel power plants don't sell here.
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 05:08 PM
Sep 2015

They won't in China either.

Further complicated things here in the U.S.A. is the fantasy that wind and solar will somehow magically displace fossil fuels, and we'll all buy electric cars, and business will go on as usual. There's no evidence at all that wind and solar can support the high energy society we are accustomed too.

A solar and wind powered economy looks nothing like the economy we have now.

The problem is that the thing we now call "economic productivity" is a direct measure of the damage we are doing to the earth's natural environment and our own human spirit.

We should probably be paying people not to work, paying people to experiment with minimalist lifestyles with low environmental impacts, paying people to rework our cities and suburbs into walkable places where automobiles are unnecessary and undesirable, flooding communities with sex education and birth control.

But that goes against both American and Chinese "work ethics" and it goes against traditions where sex isn't openly talked about, especially with children.

Baitball Blogger

(46,655 posts)
12. Sounds like Supply side economics leads to bankruptcy.
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 02:20 PM
Sep 2015

Who knew?

Maybe that was the Republican's big strategy. Maybe they intentionally baited China into following a failed economic policy, with the intention of bankrupting them.

They're geniuses!

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
15. What's the difference between building empty apartments and building bombs and warships?
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 03:47 PM
Sep 2015

I guess the difference is that we hide the produce of our make-work out in the desert.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
18. Was just wondering about that, so millions of empty apartments vs
Wed Sep 2, 2015, 05:21 PM
Sep 2015

untold numbers of planes sitting out in nowhere land that cost billions and billions to make and maintain. All out rusting in the desert.

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
21. Aren't they in the desert so they DON'T rust?
Wed Sep 9, 2015, 05:15 PM
Sep 2015

My understanding is that they are used either for spare parts or eventual recommission.

onethatcares

(16,160 posts)
22. how many of those could be recommissioned?
Wed Sep 9, 2015, 05:32 PM
Sep 2015

or used for spare parts. Especially when new ones are being built day in day out.

That looks like a hell of a waste of money to me.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
23. Contents: One Global Apocalypse. Made in the USA; Assembled in China.
Wed Sep 9, 2015, 07:15 PM
Sep 2015

This long, sobering article gives the clearest description I've read so far of how China is destroying itself and taking the world along for the ride. As if we hadn't created enough of a planetary predicament on our own, China's irresponsible, intransigent industrialization is now resolutely tightening the global garrote.

Over the last decade I've become inured to the emotional impact of report after article after story detailing the shape, size and speed of the ecological tsunami that is now lapping over our knees. This story is the first one in a year or more than has broken through my carefully maintained defensive dike of detachment, and allowed the murky grey waters of despair to flood in.

You know how we doomers say it's always worse than we thought? It's even worse than that. Far, far worse.

KT2000

(20,563 posts)
26. One thing they have going
Wed Sep 9, 2015, 08:24 PM
Sep 2015

is they have copied all the plans for the products they make for American businesses.

As a young Chinese man said when he was tormented by having to deal with the corruption (he was raised in America for most of his childhood) - a fish that lives in dirty water learns to live in dirty water.

Major Nikon

(36,817 posts)
27. When I visited China, Bejing and Singapore had construction cranes as far as you could see
Wed Sep 9, 2015, 08:27 PM
Sep 2015

...in all directions. I've never seen anything like it.

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