Refugees in Hungary tricked onto train which is taking them to "camps", journalists forced to leave

[dixiegrrrrl]

Summary of the last day's events in Budapest:

2 days ago:
Thousands of refugees congregated at the Keleti station, Budapest,wanting to board trains to Germany.
The police closed the station.
Today ( European time) police opened the station, and refugees boarded the train.
Then the Hungarian government spokesman says those at Keleti station will go to refugee camps inside Hungary -

The refugees on the train were not aware of this.
A Sky News journalist is reporting from a train which has departed Keleti station. He has informed those on board that the train will not be going to Germany, but will in fact be staying in Hungary, and is demonstrating to passengers the train's course using GPS and his phone's maps application.

When the refugees realized they were being taken to camps inside Hungary, they tried to get off train but riot police prevented it.

Photo: Refugees realizing train not bound for Austria, riot police stop anyone getting off
:large

Photo: Man and woman with baby throw themselves onto track demanding not to be taken to camps -
:large

Photo: International media taken away from train with migrants from Budapest on board
:large

This link shows the chain of events, with photos:
http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/migrant-boat-runs-around-off-rhodes-greece/

[RKP5637]

1. OMG, this sounds like, it's reminiscent of WWII! n/t

Last edited Thu Sep 3, 2015, 10:00 AM - Edit history (1)

[malaise]

4. My precise thought

[dixiegrrrrl]

8. Yeah.....that was my first impression too.

Esp. since the Hungarian Gov't did not tell the people they were being, in essence, kidnapped and forcibly taken to camps.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

14. If I understood the BBC correctly, the refugees/immigrants

are supposed to do all the necessary paperwork in the European country of entry before moving throughout Europe. It makes sense that Europeans want to know who is entering their countries before hundreds of thousands of people disperse.

This is one reason why Italy is overwhelmed and asking for help; she has to process all of the refugees arriving by boat before they can move on to another country.

They need more manpower - ummm - human power.

[B Calm]

2. If Hungary has a problem with the refugees, why don't they allow them

travel out of their country?

[DetlefK]

3. Travel to where?

Travel back to the Balkans, where they just passed through on their way from the Middle-East?
Or let them enter the Schengen-territory without papers?
Or pass them on to other countries like they are someone else's problem?

[B Calm]

5. To Germany. .

[pampango]

6. Hasn't Germany agreed to accept them? Hungary and Germany are both Schengen countries,

aren't they? Why force them into camps in Hungary, which does not want them, rather than let them go on to Germany which will allow them to stay?

[DetlefK]

11. WTF? Seriously. WTF???

Have some refugees you don't want? Ship them to Germany. You want the refugees to be in Germany, the refugees want to be in Germany, and everybody is happy... Except that Germany is a sovereign country and it would be nice to ask Germany for permission before shipping hordes of refugees to Germany.

Schengen-territory means that the collective border of this group of nations is effectively the border of each individual nation. Once you are in Hungary, there are no more passport-controls at the borders. (Sometimes customs-police for catching smugglers, but no systematic passport-control.) The refugees could reach Germany as illegal immigrants on their own.

And No, Germany won't automatically accept them. Every refugee gets his ID and his back-story checked and then there's a case-by-case judgement whether this particular person can stay or not. This takes time. At least several months. And in the mean-time the refugees have to stay in camps.

Now, what THE FUCK makes you think that Germany is obliged to take in these refugees? Germany accepts precisely as many refugees as it wants and as treaties command it to do. When Germany asked for a EU-wide mandatory regulation how many refugees each country has to take in (based on economic strength and population), guess who was one of the countries who sabotaged the deal? Hungary!

Imagine if every illegal immigrant caught at the border in Texas and California were directly sent to New York. It's a nice city, with nice people and lots of money and everybody wants to go to New York. They will take care of the immigrants. They are New York's problem now. Let's dump them inside the city-limits and New York will take care of the rest. They have to. Because we dumped them there and we will surely not allow them back into our states.

[pampango]

12. Germany has declared their willingness to accept the refugees. No one is forcing them to.

"There can be no upper limit set on the intake of people who are fleeing persecution and need protection," Schmidt said.

The comments from Manfred Schmidt, head of the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees (BAMF) are certain to provoke anger in some quarters of the political spectrum.

With Germany expecting 800,000 asylum applications during the course of 2015, Schmidt has had more work on his desk than in any previous year, and the backlog in applications is now estimated at a quarter of a million.

Schmidt explained the huge rise in the number of people seeking asylum in Germany as primarily due to Syrian refugees finally giving up hope that they will be able to return to their homes in the near future.

http://www.thelocal.de/20150831/there-is-no-limit-to-the-refugees-germany-can-take-in

Now, what THE FUCK makes you think that Germany is obliged to take in these refugees?

Germany is no ore obliged to take them in than is Sweden or any other country. If a country professes to be open to accepting the refugees, I don't consider it an obligation.

guess who was one of the countries who sabotaged the deal? Hungary!

Hardly surprising since Hungary is run by a right-wing government.

[dixiegrrrrl]

7. Hungarian PM Viktor Orbán says Schengen code is under threat, migrants are 'a German problem'

Hungary is getting pressure from Germany, cause refugees want to go to the country where good jobs are, which is Germany.
and Britain, btw, which is why there is so much news about France border problems.

the Schengen code is an agreement by most European members that people can travel within the EU with no border checks, in the same way we do from state to state here.
So once someone gets into the EU, they are, theoretically able to get on a train to Germany, just as someone crossing the Mexican border legally or illegally can travel to any US state.

and as long as the Europe keeps calling the refugees "migrants", the problem will continue to be unaddressable.
The UN Convention on the Rights of Migrants defines a migrant worker as a "person who is to be engaged, is engaged or has been engaged in a remunerated activity in a State of which he or she is not a national."

The thousands, maybe millions, of people risking death to reach Europe from Africa and the Middle East are NOT migrants.
They are political and climate refugees driven out of their country by wars and lack of food.
they are broke and desperate.

And there is no acceptable policy to deal with them.

[Recursion]

22. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, this really is an existential question for the EU

This is bigger than a lot of people think, IMO

[dixiegrrrrl]

27. in other words..........

[Recursion]

28. Yup. Austria's border with Hungary is de facto closed

And requires a passport check to cross.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

15. See post 14 above

[Recursion]

20. Because they have treaty obligations forbidding that

Persons claiming refugee status in the EU must claim it in the first EU country they enter.

[ryan_cats]

9. I hope they're not sending them to Oswiecim, Poland. N/t

[MoonRiver]

10. Hungary needs to let these war refugees reach asylum in the countries that want them!

This is unbelievable! I am beginning to smell ethnic hate going on, and that never ends well.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

16. See post 14 above. Actually see post 13 below.

German wants them, but they are supposed to be processed before dispersing all over Europe.
I believe the German government supports this. Most governments in the EU don't want hundreds of thousands of unidentified people entering.

[Marrah_G]

13. Refugees have to stay in the country they first request asylum while the claim is investigated

The Dublin Regulation establishes the Member State responsible for the examination of the asylum application. The criteria for establishing responsibility run, in hierarchical order, from family considerations, to recent possession of visa or residence permit in a Member State, to whether the applicant has entered EU irregularly, or regularly.

Needless to say this puts a huge burden on the countries that are most used as crossing points.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

17. Thank you.

I heard this discussed on BBC but could not remember "the Dublin Regulation."

[pampango]

18. Germany suspends 'Dublin rules' for Syrians to alleviate the burden on border countries.

Berlin has confirmed that it will stop returning Syrian asylum seekers to their first port of entry in the EU. Move has been hailed as "European solidarity" that will relieve pressure on Hungary and Greece.

Germany said Tuesday that will waive a key EU procedure and accept Syrian refugees fleeing civil war and not return them to border countries that have been accepting unprecedented waves of migrants.

"For the commission, this constitutes a recognition of the fact that we cannot leave the member states at the external borders alone in dealing with a large number of asylum seekers seeking refuge in Europe," said Natasha Bertaud, spokeswoman for the EU Commission.

The so-called "Dublin rules" state that asylum seekers are required to claim a refuge in the first EU state they arrive in. In practice, this has caused impoverished Greece and Hungary to accept a disproportionate number of claims as tens of thousands arrive overland through the Balkans.

Italy has also taken in huge numbers as seafaring migrants continue to arrive from North Africa. EU member Hungary is building a vast razor-wire barrier to keep out migrants, fearing that it would be overwhelmed by asylum requests.

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-suspends-dublin-rules-for-syrians/a-18671698

Germany has waived the Dublin Regulation that previously permitted it to return refugees to the border country where they entered the EU. I suppose Hungary, Greece and other border countries could decline this and insist on processing Syrian refugees themselves but they do not seem to thrilled with that prospect.

[Marrah_G]

19. Oh, I had not heard that. Thank you!!!!

Vice has a really great series of documentaries on the migration crisis in europe/Africa.

[dixiegrrrrl]

21. Thank you for this info.

Tis a massive problem, no matter how you look at it.

[WinkyDink]

24. Hemingway might have wanted to look up the word "defense."

[WinkyDink]

23. Of course, the bitter irony is two-fold: Germany's lecturing other nations (e.g., UK); and WANTING

to go to Germany.

[eShirl]

25. OMG I was afraid of this, thought I was being paranoid.

[underahedgerow]

26. If you look through the many pictures making the rounds this week you'll notice one thing in

particular. At least 98% of the people struggling to get on the trains and to make their way to the EU are young males. Granted the media focuses on families and small children, but pull the camera lens out a bit and it's overwhelmingly young males.

So... why aren't they staying home to fight the wretches destroying their own countries? What happened to 'women and children first'? You can bet a lot of these young guys are married, have sisters, mothers, etc. So they're abandoning their families to save their own skins. Or to take advantage of the upheaval for their own agendas, to heck with everyone else, right? Who's looking after the women and children left behind?

Not guys I'd want in my country. Put them into refugee centers and process them in accordance with the immigration laws.