The NFL should re-suspend Tom Brady for destroying evidence that's subjected to an investigation

[Yavin4]

For that, he's clearly guilty, and the courts won't save him on that. Basic discovery rules caution custodians of data to preserve anything that's subjected to an investigation.

[underpants]

1. It was HIS phone and this was not a legal proceeding

[pnwmom]

2. True. And the NFL would have every right under their rules to suspend him

for deliberately interfering with their investigation.

[underpants]

3. Ah, but...

Part of the ruling by the judge (aside from blanket dismissal of the whole NFL process) was that they never made clear to him that not turning over the phone could result in suspension.

[Yavin4]

4. The judge is wrong in that regard, and he knows it.

That's a violation of the basic rules of discovery. You cannot destroy evidence that you know will be a part of an investigation.

[underpants]

9. Okay

I know you no more about this than I do ...but...it was not a legal investigation. It was in house NFL.

BTW - another part of the judges decision was based on the fact that The NFL didn't allow their legal counsel Jeff Pash to testify at Brady's internal NFL appeal. Pash was not only counsel but he apparently edited the Wells report. Brady's lawyers never got a chance to cross him.

[joeybee12]

14. I hope that was sarcasm...

Because you can't say something isn't evidence, which Wells told Brady, and then ask later to produce...in other words, retroactively change your mind...essentially that's what Goodell did, lied to the media about it, but Berman called him out for it...it's basic, but the hate is so strong in some they don't want facts.

[Johonny]

19. More than that since they didn't notify Brady of the possible punishment

the same ruling would seem to apply. The league failed at the start to clarify what was at stake and what was the penalties for Brady to not follow through the process. Brady wasn't found innocent of cheating. He wasn't found innocent of withholding evidence. The NFL was found not to have a coherent penalty/arbitration process. Since the process hasn't changed, in no way could the NFL suspend Tom Brady by the same process a second time. How all this does in appeal... IDK. But I think most fans understand the NFL suspension process is horrible, not manageable, and needs to be revised with clear rules, penalties, and process. Given their choice to appeal the ruling instead of clean up the process... I won't hold my breath. Either way I've already decided to stop watching the NFL this year. The league is corrupt and isn't fixing basic problems on any level. Not just the Pats, but there were several offseason cheating scandals. You can conclude pretty much all these teams are cheating each other and very little penalties are involved when/if they get caught. It's worse than NASCAR.

[yeoman6987]

5. It's over. The travesty of this is finally over

Between Hillary and Brady, I don't know which witch hunt is worse. They both are.

[GummyBearz]

7. Both cheated a system and lied about it

One is a politician, so that's pretty standard. The other is Patriot, also pretty standard. The similarities are striking

[6chars]

30. Key differences:

Brady destroyed his phone and the electronic evidence. Hillary has turned over her server to the investigators, along with all her relevant emails.

[GummyBearz]

31. I think you mean,

"All the emails her staff decided were relevant, and a shit ton that were not".

All in all, striking similarities. And they wont stop here... both will get off easy, and hopefully both will lose their next big game.

[Johonny]

16. It isn't over. They appealed the decision. And the Pats still are out money and a draft pick, plus

the two equipment guys are still hosed. All this did was demonstrate that the NFL arbitration process isn't fair, which no one thought it was fair. However, the NFL has lost at this level before and won their appeal before. The only thing we know is... it isn't over yet.

[joeybee12]

6. Yet another fact-free post we've come to expect...

Read the transcript of the arbitration...Wells admitted he did not tell Brady he needed the phone, said the records themselves were enough...then Gooddell bases his ruling on destroying evidence, when the phone was never evidence and Brady was told it was not evidence...Berman included that in his ruling today...sorry, but all you have is hate and the haters here are really embarrassing themselves today.

[renegade000]

15. there is so much bullshit in this supposed "scandal" it makes your head spin

Lest we forget that all of this is about deviation in the pressures of footballs that, depending on what gauge you believe the ref used, can be either mostly or completely explained by natural, physical processes.

The data/evidence collection process was already extremely shoddy to begin with, in part because until the whole "scandal" started, it didn't seem like NFL officials really gave much thought to the letter of the regulations with regard to football PSI.

Some of the damn texts that were supposedly "incriminating" of Brady were about how he was pissed off that the refs had severely overinflated the balls to 16 psi, which is WAY out of spec according to the rules. Of course, when other QBs (e.g. Aaron Rogers) explicitly state they like their balls at 16 psi, there isn't a big stink about how they're a bunch of "cheaters." Yes, this last point doesn't say anything about Brady, specifically, but I think it's indicative of this sudden concern about ball pressure is mainly motivated by a desire to see Brady tarnished. I mean either the rules (both upper and lower bounds) are there for super-important competitive fairness reasons, or they are more just general guidelines to ensure the balls are generally within a non-extreme range. It's pretty obvious that everyone had been treating them as the later up until this point... then all of a sudden it became a moral crusade of the utmost degree (in which only one team was being examined under a microscope)...

[joeybee12]

17. For arguments sake, let's say the balls were in the game underinflated...

Then they got that way because the refs did a half-ass job of measuring them...my point is, they didn't need to deflate after the balls were measured because the refs didn't care, the NFL didn't care, it was a non-issue.

That said, they weren't deflated...they went in at the exact amount and the ticks below are from the natural process...junk science in the Wells report...the only ball more than a few ticks was the interecpted ball that the Colts had possession of for quite some time before giving it to the refs.

[Snobblevitch]

8. I would have lost my phone too.

If the NFL had given a subpoena requesting the phone and then he 'lost' it he would have been in trouble.

Is Roger Goodell the most hated man in sports?

[underpants]

10. Yeah and his emails still got leaked

If they had the phone intact God knows what they would have leaked.

[joeybee12]

11. Roger is the most hated man in sports...but selective amnesia

over that comes into play when it concerns Brady...then the haters here think Goodell is a man of integrity...also, see my post above, specifically being told it wasn't needed...the phone that is...you can't say that and then retroactively say its evidence.

[hifiguy]

12. He's certainly near the top if not at it.

He's drunk on his own power, thinks he can write the rules as he goes along, is arbitrary as hell and is apparently under the impression that he is Grand Imperial Poobah of All He Surveys.

He's an idiot, a dipshit, and a petty tyrant.

And I am not a Pats fan.

[Snobblevitch]

29. I'm not a huge NFL fan.

It doesn't bother me at all that Brady underinflated his balls. ( Maybe it bothered Giselle.)

[GummyBearz]

32. She smashed his balls long ago

Its a known fact that she makes him pee sitting down at their home.

[Snobblevitch]

33. i heard that on the radio today.

I wonder how many multi-mvp NFL players have wives who have more money than they do.

(Frankly, if she asked me to pee sitting down, I would probably do it, but don't tell anybody.)

[pnwmom]

13. He destroyed the phone on the same day he met with them to discuss the football tampering.

And he knew before that meeting that they wanted to look at his cell phone.

He deliberately interfered with their investigation and he should have been suspended for that.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/07/28/nfl-calls-out-tom-brady-for-destroying-his-cell-phone/IVoxlgutjomYLDA4t8RFAL/story.html

From the “Factual Determinations and Findings” section of Goodell’s 20-page decision, during which the NFL commisioner states that Brady’s cellphone provider confirmed in a letter that the 10,000 text messages sent from or recieved by the destroyed cellphone cannot be recovered:

[joeybee12]

18. Seriously, you can't get past the hate, right...

Read the transcript, not Goodell's lies...Wells admitted to telling Brady he didn't need the phone, the records were enough...Goodell out and out lied and he leaked that lie and you haters ate it up...pathetic.

[pnwmom]

22. I don't hate St. Brady. I just think he's a cheater. n/t

[joeybee12]

23. Yeah, you do...

Because he didn't cheat...anyone who looks closely past the NFL lies and smear knows he didn't cheat...you're incapable of doing that...that's hate in my or anyone else's book...especially since I exposed the lies you were posting and you didn't even address that.

[pnwmom]

24. He lied. He said that it was his practice to destroy his cell phone

when he bought a new one (which he just happened to do on the same day he met with the NFL).

But he still had his previous phone, not destroyed -- and he provided that one. There was nothing in the old one he didn't want them to see.

[joeybee12]

25. Where do you get this sh*t? Totally untrue...totally

I will repeat, read the transcript of the arbitration...Wells, who "investigated" it specifically said he told Brady the phone was not needed...got that...that's a fact...in the filthy goon Goodell's decision, he made it sound like Brady was told he needed the phone, just to justify his decision to uphold the suspension...and he leaked it to make it look bad...that's why the NFL filed a motion to keep the transcript of the arbitration sealed, which, again they leaked and lied and said they wanted it unsealed...but Brady wanted it sealed, when Brady and the Union filed to unseal it...this has been a smear campaign from Day one and haters are the only one still clinging to their lies. I'm done...try and find someone gullible.

[Logical]

26. You are funny, sure you are not Tom? Jesus, some fixation you have there! Nt

[pnwmom]

28. What part isn't true? Are you saying that he didn't give them his old phone,

which had not been destroyed, despite his claim that he routinely did so?

[trumad]

34. Stunned Joey hasn't put you on ignore yet.

[Takket]

20. this OP is a represenation of...

The misinformation thrown around to make Brady look guilty. what you posted looks pretty damning and unfortunately this is what happens when journalists run screaming to the internet as soon as they hear a piece of information.

"Brady destroyed his phone to keep the NFL from knowing the truth!"

Looks pretty bad.

Brady was asked for, and provided, a list of everyone he texted to the NFL. They didn't bother to try to retrieve any of those texts.

link:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/28/brady-offered-to-help-nfl-gather-missing-text-messages/

Brady was told to keep his phone. HIS phone. HIS property. That was under NO LEGAL subpoena as evidence. The NFL is not a court, it is a pro sports league, and an anti-trust exempt one at that, and Brady is a member of a Union working for that league.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/Wells-says-he-told-Brady-you-keep-the-phone

I don't know about any of you but I don't want my employer to have warrant power to conduct searches of my personal property and be subject to discipline if I say no.

[underpants]

21. Very well put

[pnwmom]

27. It's funny St. Brady had no concern about giving them full access to his previous phone.

He only "routinely" destroyed all the texts on his current phone -- and on the same day, March 6th, that he met with them.

All just a coincidence, of course. At least to the members of the Church of St. Brady.

[pnwmom]

35. St. Brady made himself look guilty when he destroyed his cell phone on the same day

that he met with investigators -- who had told him they needed the phone for the investigation, and they would keep all unrelated texts in strict confidence.

He also made himself look dishonest when he claimed that he routinely destroyed his cell phones when he bought a new one. Yet he supplied them with the cell phone he'd stopped using several months before -- texts and cell phone intact.