General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCan we stop slut-shaming and attacking the looks of women that we disagree with?
Kim Davis recently made some news by stating how she wouldnt issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. It was quickly pointed out that Davis was married four times and the internet didnt hesitate to lambaste her for her hypocrisy. Yes, its a bit odd that someone would impose their views on marriage onto others while having their own marital issues, but this isnt relevant to why she is wrong. Im fine with people writing about the intersections of hypocrisy, morality, and religion in a nuanced way, but Im not fine with this image below or calling her a slut or a whore for being married multiple times (just search through Twitter if you want to see other awful examples).
These are the insults progressives are going with now? A similar case of this happened when Bristol Palin was slut-shamed when we found out she was pregnant again. I dont agree with abstinence only-education either, but I dont need to slut-shame my opponents to make my point. The facts speak for themselves.
-snip-
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/accordingtomatthew/2015/09/can-we-stop-slut-shaming-and-attacking-the-looks-of-women-that-we-disagree-with/
Bravo. The comments here about Bristol Palin were creeping me out
PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)OhWiseOne
(74 posts)Maybe she has some talents that are not evident in the photo.
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)A hand for every glove
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... that she is wearing mixed fibers ... heretic!!!!!
randys1
(16,286 posts)I was gonna say something earlier.
Sarah Palin was on the receiving end of misogyny and still is.
Moron? Completely.
Unfit to run the local carwash let alone a state or country? Absolutely
But she was treated differently because she was a Woman, period.
I dont like fat comments or ugly comments, either.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)And yes, there is definitely a loosening of the standards when it comes to criticizing the Palins, IMO.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)I disagree with most of what comes out of her mouth, but when I see posters on this site slut shaming her, it really rubs me the wrong way. That's just not okay.
840high
(17,196 posts)stepped in to object. Pure hypocrisy.
mercuryblues
(14,525 posts)posts were alerted on and passed a jury. But those who tried to set the record straight were given vacations or just plain left DU. I don't even bother to alert anymore. It is acceptable on DU to call woman a whole host of derogatory names, even in the safe havens.
So you can take your hypocrisy claim and savor it, as you are one of the ones who helped get rid of the feminists, to protect your world view. Talk about micro aggressions.
840high
(17,196 posts)understand you - nor care to. I got rid of feminists -?
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)Or for picking their battles due to a constant onslaught of random insults like yours? An out of place pot shot about "DU's feminists'" non vigilance making them pure hypocrites.....ugh, some of you are so obvious.
840high
(17,196 posts)comment when Palin was slut-shamed. Or Palin's daughter. Some of you are so obvious, too. All women need to be defended not just dems.
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)they were hypocrisy shaming, not slut shaming. Your assertion that nobody commented for Bristol is flat out false. I don't recall Palin ever being slut shamed. To my knowledge she has been continuously married? ?
And btw, feminists do not automatically agree with every other woman on the planet every second. It would be literally impossible and utterly absurd.
840high
(17,196 posts)Bristol.
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)remember yesterday. lol
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)and roundly, even brutally mocking it for what it is.
The rest should be beside the point.
randys1
(16,286 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)but hypocrisy shaming should be fair game. Bristol never had a problem with looks, but her hypocrisy should be held up like a banner.
This woman's hypocrisy should as well, but I don't know when she became a born again christian. Maybe it was after all the divorces and adultery, and you know how the Christian faith deals with sin...forgiveness...you can do anything and be forgiven if you just ask for it.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)The "get out of jail free" card that these jebus-wheezers always play to excuse their own behavior nauseates me. And for that she deserves all the hammering she gets.
treestar
(82,383 posts)So the hypocrisy was fair game. It was not "slut shaming" as people claimed. Yes, she has a right to live as she does, but she's telling others how to live and not living by the same rules herself.
It's like Phyllis Schafly saying we all should stay home and take care of our husbands but she's out there in the public limelight. They think they are above the rules they set for others.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)but do have a problem with her self-righteousness, not because of her checkered marital past (after all, she's been forgiven for that) but rather because of her swearing to God to uphold the law of the land...except when she doesn't agree with it, apparently.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,888 posts)Ugly men have feelings too.
NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) A man was seen running around buck naked on Broadway in Times Square for hours Thursday.
As CBS2s Steve Langford reported Thursday, police never attempted to arrest him.
Liberation this is America! said the naked man running around Times Square with nothing but a coat of paint.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027139869
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)a DU commenter on another thread posted regarding the looks of the demonstrators on her behalf that they looked "like they had never been on a date in their lives." Uncalled for and mean.
P.S. Davis isn't ugly not that it matters anyway. She just chooses to not wear makeup (probably for religious reasons).
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,703 posts)no hair do, except a bun. No showing of any part of legs. Dresses have to be at least mid-calf and loose. So of the young girls that leave the church and start dressing like the "heathen" dress look 1000% different.
Maeve
(42,271 posts)Men are not under the same restrictions.
LiberalArkie
(15,703 posts)But from what I saw while going, it was really the women who were the bosses in a devious sort of way. I was reading that she did not become a Christian until 2011 and pretty settled down since.
Maeve
(42,271 posts)Yet willing to face the temptations in secular life--bless their little hearts!--as long as their wimmin ain't temptations to no one! And they aren't....
F*%# that $#!t. If Gawd wanted us ugly, he should have made us that way.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Vinca
(50,237 posts)that she has been married so many times and is somehow concerned enough about the sanctity of marriage to go to jail. She's a scamster after fundraising money . . . don't be fooled by all the Jesus-y stuff.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)wolfie001
(2,206 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)delrem
(9,688 posts)Bonfires would be blazing with burning books and we'd be left with boring sermons from boring people.
Chemisse
(30,804 posts)We see it all the time in children, and in some adults. Playground bullies are indulging in their 'human nature.' That just means we need to be more vigilant about guarding against those behaviors.
delrem
(9,688 posts)Chaucer presents archetypes of certain hypocritical cynical greedy ... behaviors.
But Chaucer doesn't present these archetypes just so we'll disregard them! He presents them in all their absurdity in his characters, so we can recognize them. When we recognize those behaviors in individuals, and especially if we recognize artistically similar visual patterns (and I mean, there are plenty here) reproduced in front of our eyes, we are prone to comment.
Chemisse
(30,804 posts)My complaint is mocking people for their appearance (calling someone fat or ugly) and for behaviors that we ordinarily would not find problematic - simply because we don't like what the person is doing (ie slut-shaming).
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)This one gave me a laugh.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7137679
jalan48
(13,842 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)I don't need the surface to talk about all the UGLY INSIDE someone.
Response to arcane1 (Original post)
Iggo This message was self-deleted by its author.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)There's a really ugly thread doing just that here on DU - shaming her for her looks and even FFS - her fashion sense.
It's obvious that misogyny is alive and well on DU.
It's also obvious that some DUers are still living their middle school years.
Sad.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)I decided to post it. I'm glad I haven't seen it posted here!!
AlinPA
(15,071 posts)yet she acts differently about gay people.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Making fun of weight (Christy), tragic deaths are made fun on by using the "Darwin Award" shit.
This place is disgusting at times since it is a progressive site.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)a bunch of foul mouthed slut shaming, woman hater, bigots, are free to post here.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)and activists are trashed mercilessly.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=541238
UGLY.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)make no sense on DU. Your OP makes me
arcane1
(38,613 posts)I even called it "fair game" in this very thread.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)as if that is what is occurring.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Go back to the recent threads about Bristol Palin and tell me you don't see a problem.
MADem
(135,425 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)It probably does.
But how nice you defend her.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)WDIM
(1,662 posts)Yet Jesus said divorce is adultry. Therefore she is a hypocrite. And that is what people are pointing out.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Oneironaut
(5,487 posts)I don't care what she did. The image is what's ugly. There are far better things to attack this woman for than stooping that low (and disgusting).
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)Cruz' soft body and slack squared lips then NO.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)as it is with all haters.
the rest is immaterial.
good post.
longship
(40,416 posts)But she is ripe for ridicule. However, the only looks thing I would ridicule her for is her sartorial taste, which directly connected to her religion, which is always ripe for ridicule.
But how she looks otherwise is meaningless to me. People look different and that is fine.
Ridicule is good in this case. Like the SitNextTo Kim Davis Twitter account.
Hilarious poking fun at Kim Davis from an alleged staffer who sits next to her at work. And yes, she has a rather bad attitude.
https://twitter.com/nexttokimdavis?lang=en
Skittles
(153,122 posts)do not be surprised if people reciprocate
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)The world isn't split along those lines in all things.
The same people who laugh and share this are no doubt laughing at anti-Hillary stuff too.
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)Edit to add: or comment on his marriages?
treestar
(82,383 posts)all I can think of is that his hair is that way by his choice. It is the outlandishness of the style.
His marriages are fair game only if he starts touting the right wing sex rules to apply to the rest of us. Which is why he'll probably be quiet on those issues. So far he has not sounded Jesus-y. Just xenophobic.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)I don't slut-shame here on DU, not because the word 'slut' defines nothing that exists in reality, but because my friends here have asked me not to. And in my world, when a friend asks me to stop doing something, I generally stop it, without needing to hear why. I stop it because my friend asked me to stop it.
I do refer to some of my friends as sluts, and I do it in their presence only if I know they will laugh or agree.
Same applies to looks.
On the other hand, when it comes to adversaries, I'm disinclined to accommodate. If a female adversary has 50 bazillion consensual sex partners, that doesn't make her - as defined in the dictionary - a 'slut'? When Chris Christie furrows his brow and wags his finger at a school teacher, screaming, 'I'm TIRED of you PEOPLE!!!", then no, I'm sorry, I will not be polite if the situation demands a bald reality check.
Anyway, more generally, I think this is the first post I've made to a gender controversy thread in a long time, and it will likely be my last for a long time.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)progree
(10,894 posts)As wonderfully wonderful progressives, we can surely all agree on this wonderfully wonderful double standard.
I don't know if this is true, but:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027138602
I suspect that if it was a man cheating on his wife and getting a woman -- not his wife -- pregnant, and going through all these marriages and divorces, we'd be zipper-shaming him. As we should, of course.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Bosses cavorting with the staff is generally frowned upon.
progree
(10,894 posts)Around here, it would have been the same if it was "Joe 6-pack".
But like I said, I of course agree that men should be zipper-shamed while women never should be slut-shamed.
Everything I read about "THAT Bill" -- she was the instigator. Though certainly I agree that Bill should have shown some sense and restraint. And yes, especially as the boss, regardless of who the instigator was.
However, the same can be said of the bad choices of some women, I think.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)and went straight to Clinton. Sorry about that.
progree
(10,894 posts)Don't Mess with Bill (Marvellettes, 1966)
treestar
(82,383 posts)That's a huge difference. Women were the ones to be controlled, and it still exists to some extent.
progree
(10,894 posts)was seen as macho, "real man" etc. And if he "got it" by smooth talk and lies, as is usually the case, then too many see that as just "part of the game", rather than the reprehensible conduct that it really is.
But in judging politicians for office or people in official positions, the reverse is true, at least that's my impression. Its always zipper-shaming if a male, (and yes, almost always considered inappropriate or worse for a woman).
Anyway, for me, whether one's sexual conduct is harmful or not is not a gender issue for me, but rather a Golden Rule thing. Who is being harmed by questionable sexual conduct, especially where dishonesty / deceit is involved.
[font color = red]On Edit: knotches -> notches[/font]. Thanks MADem. It was Saturday knight, what d'ya expect?
treestar
(82,383 posts)and a double standard still exists, milder maybe. The male politicians are not shamed - in fact they usually don't end up resigning. I guess Wiener did. But that was more than adultery. Clinton just got more popular.
A female politician being caught hasn't happened so far as I can tell. They are older when they get elected, so it would mostly be about how she's so unattractive it is amazing, blah blah. Though I'm not so sure it would have to cause her resignation.
Palin was considered attractive by some, so if she got caught doing something like that as Veep, who knows what the reaction would have been. You'd think the right should turn on her because of it while the left would not care. But the usual seems to be for the left to say it is hypocritical and the right to ignore it when it involves one of them.
progree
(10,894 posts)I think Clinton's ratings improved not because of his Monica-thing -- everyone I know saw that as a character flaw -- but as a result of the RepubliCONS over-doing it with the rhetoric, the hypocrisy, and the impeachment stuff. The economy also helped -- kicking into ultra-high gear around that time (the Goldilocks economy -- not too hot, not too cold, Dow Jones doubling and redoubling, damn near every pundit saying recessions were a thing of the past that the Fed has learned to control, yada).
I don't agree that male politicians aren't shamed. But I'd agree that a female politician doing the same things would get a lot more criticism.
There have been female politicians that have had adulterous affairs, I remember about 2 or 3 back around the late 1990s or so. I'd have trouble finding notes that old -- I did keep track for awhile. Maybe I could do the Google.
On control and oppression -- Yes, I don't doubt there is a glass ceiling. They can't jog or walk safely in some areas that I can (I think about that just about every time I jog. Similarly about minorities -- in some areas you'd have idiots calling 911). There is a pay equity issue, and on and on. I wouldn't want to be a female.
And I don't doubt that, as a male, if I was juggling say 3 girlfriends, it wouldn't get my neighbors a-clucking as much as if my single female neighbor had different boyfriends coming and going. (We live in townhouses, so the whole row can see who is coming and going).
I used to feel out - of - control in one key area -- if I had sex, I had no control of the outcome. Even if we both solemnly agreed in writing that I don't want kids, and that she will use a reliable birth control method, and if all that fails and she becomes pregnant then she agrees to have an abortion -- still, it is entirely up to her whether she continues that pregnancy and whether I'm on the hook for 18 years of child support. (As I grew older and less "sensitive" down there, condoms didn't work . Would have loved having a workable male birth control option).
But all that is in my past. Oh, oh well. Age has its compensations.
Then there's paternity fraud... "State tells Detroit man: Pay for child that isn't yours or go to jail!" http://www.democraticunderground.com/10581303
MADem
(135,425 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Who has such a hatred of progressives that helped to elect Obama. Hmmmm....
arcane1
(38,613 posts)I didn't realize this was a controversial position to take
Hydra
(14,459 posts)Last edited Fri Sep 4, 2015, 09:54 PM - Edit history (2)
There are plenty of things to say about her...but the best thing to say is nothing at all. She doesn't want to adjust to the change, and I'm sure her pastor is not encouraging her to do so either.
That said, if she feels that strongly about it, she needs to do the mature thing and resign, not fight this out in court and in jail.
Chakab
(1,727 posts)continue to take her to task regarding her rank hypocrisy given her compulsion to impose her "morals" on others by shaming them and discriminating against them.
Same goes for Bristol Palin.
japple
(9,809 posts)and GW's dead possum hair. But I never called either one a slut.
treestar
(82,383 posts)but it's so ridiculous and by his choice that I suppose it is different.
Mike Nelson
(9,944 posts)...could also apply to men - Trump (comments about his hair, wives) and others.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)romanic
(2,841 posts)who views me as a perverted faggot just because I want to marry my boyfriend. I could care less about her looks but honestly, if someone wants to make fun of her appearance then so be it, I won't stop them or shed tears if her feelings get hurt. Boohoo and all that.
herding cats
(19,558 posts)Unless she plans on seeking religious based annulments on her fist and third marriages and then remarries her second, and thus, fourth husband again within the sanction of the scriptures. She is a Christian hypocrite. If she's going to claim all biblical text should influence her life, then fine. All of it should, not just that which she chooses to adopt vs. that which she chooses to ignore for personal reasons.
The rest of the personal matters are between her and her version of God. Just don't bring your convoluted version of Christianity into the public if you don't want to be called out for being a hypocrite.
Realistically, any one of us can hybridize a religion to make it suit our personal desires and prejudices. There's no way that hybridization should become a legal standing according to the first amendment to the US Constitution. No matter how many fools we get to follow our doctrine. After all, fools are a dime a dozen.
Edited to add: She's a very ugly person in her heart as far as I'm concerned.
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)I don't care about assholes getting their feelings hurt or people who rush to the defense of the assholes because those criticizing the said assholes aren't conforming to their politically correct style guide.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Looking at her now, she is just older - she was probably good looking when young, like most of us.
Getting married four times is not necessarily about attractiveness either. It's about not being able to keep a relationship going.
But yeah, especially since we're on the liberal side here - it is more a conservative thing to do that to women. (One really funny one had compared conservative women and liberal women to claim conservative women were better looking, but undid itself by doctoring the photos of the well known liberal women to make them look worse - well if they had to do that, maybe the liberal women weren't so bad looking).
libodem
(19,288 posts)The ugly is on the inside.
[img][/img]
arcane1
(38,613 posts)libodem
(19,288 posts)It can't be unseen.
damnedifIknow
(3,183 posts)I'm sorry but the woman was beat with an ugly stick.
dsc
(52,152 posts)and any focus on her looks is way wrong. But as to pointing out she has been married four times oh fuck that noise. She claims that she is unable to sign marriage certificates for same sex couples because of the Bible. The Bible quite specifically states, over and over again, that divorce is only an option for adultery (oh and not your own adultery but the other person's). If she is going to have a grand mal hissy fit over doing her job because of the Bible, then she needs to actually live by the Bible. And people pointing out that she isn't doing that isn't slut shaming, it is hypocrite shaming.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)of DU and so-called progressives.
We won. Have some fucking class.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Not everyone does what you generally accuse everyone of doing.
peasant one
(150 posts)What if this woman looked like your mother, your sister, your aunt, or yourself--how would you feel to see this post? Come on people, see what you do to others it is really not that hard. Ridicule her ideas - not her looks...please!
MADem
(135,425 posts)Maybe you could make the graphic bigger, so everyone can get a good outraged look at it?
I don't buy your thesis.
Let's start with Bristol. When you make a QUARTER MILLION BUCKS touting abstinence, and telling people to NOT get pregnant, and then, after you've cashed in, get caught out DOING what you tell others to NOT do, that is called HYPOCRISY.
Not Slut-shaming.
If some famous male dweeb ran around telling every young man to keep it in their pants, took home a large six figure payday for so doing, and then impregnated a girlfriend, the very same excoriation would apply. He'd be a HYPOCRITE. A LIAR. A craven opportunist. A grifter. A bullshit artist. A "do as I say, not as I do" horse shit king.
smh. We ARE allowed to point out when people don't live up to their finger wagging proclamations.
As for your graphic, above, you could take the very same thought, put pictures of DONALD TRUMP in the squares in place of the anti-gay clerk, and the same question would resonate. Calling someone "ugly" or "unattractive" is a MEAN thing to do--it's not "slut shaming." It's somewhat sexist, certainly, because women do tend to take that "appearance" hit more than men do, but slowly--too slowly, but slowly--that is changing. Making fun of someone's appearance isn't nice, but it's not calling them a "slut" in all, or even most, instances.
The whole "slut" thing has to do with challenging people for their sexual practices--when they are quietly living their lives, not telling other people what to do, sure, that's inappropriate. But when they are commanding people to eschew sex (or certain TYPES of sex), and banging like rabbits themselves, it's entirely appropriate to call them the hypocritical, bullshitting assholes that they are, and not be subjected to any "waaah, you're being mean" guilty essays.
I hate it when terms are misused, and 'slut shaming' doesn't apply in either of those instances. These people--Bristol and Anti-Gay Clerk--are HYPOCRITICAL ASSHOLES. They don't have my sympathy, because they do not DESERVE it.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)and thank all the great posters here. I am glad to see the shallow minority are just that. A minority.
Z_California
(650 posts)I've been saying the same thing about attacks on melania trump. As if we don't have enough legitimate reasons to criticize Kim Davis or Donald Trump.
nilram
(2,886 posts)not their ugly appearance or clothing choices. This happens more often with women, but I've also seen this happen with men. (Can we stop talking about Donald Trump's hair? Just as tiresome and irrelevant as the talk about Bernie's hair or Hillary's hair.) It's not going to change soon, but thanks for posting this as a step down that path.