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arcane1

(38,613 posts)
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 05:32 PM Sep 2015

Can we stop slut-shaming and attacking the looks of women that we disagree with?

Kim Davis recently made some news by stating how she wouldn’t issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. It was quickly pointed out that Davis was married four times and the internet didn’t hesitate to lambaste her for her hypocrisy. Yes, it’s a bit odd that someone would impose their views on marriage onto others while having their own marital issues, but this isn’t relevant to why she is wrong. I’m fine with people writing about the intersections of hypocrisy, morality, and religion in a nuanced way, but I’m not fine with this image below or calling her a “slut” or a “whore” for being married multiple times (just search through Twitter if you want to see other awful examples).







These are the insults “progressives” are going with now? A similar case of this happened when Bristol Palin was slut-shamed when we found out she was pregnant again. I don’t agree with abstinence only-education either, but I don’t need to slut-shame my opponents to make my point. The facts speak for themselves.

-snip-

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/accordingtomatthew/2015/09/can-we-stop-slut-shaming-and-attacking-the-looks-of-women-that-we-disagree-with/


Bravo. The comments here about Bristol Palin were creeping me out



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Can we stop slut-shaming and attacking the looks of women that we disagree with? (Original Post) arcane1 Sep 2015 OP
Thx for posting this n/t PasadenaTrudy Sep 2015 #1
To answer the question asked in the photo OhWiseOne Sep 2015 #39
Also I haven't seen pics of the husbands so Person 2713 Sep 2015 #45
He's not really bad looking, actually. BlueCaliDem Sep 2015 #80
A better answer is beauty is in the eye of the beholder. eom uppityperson Sep 2015 #104
My religion requires that I point out ... JoePhilly Sep 2015 #2
I pray that picture was not posted on DU till now. randys1 Sep 2015 #3
Fortunately, I had never seen the picture until I ran across that blog post arcane1 Sep 2015 #8
Seen some gnarly shit lobbed at Bristol Scootaloo Sep 2015 #10
Same, and it bothers the hell out of me. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2015 #33
Not one of DU's feminists 840high Sep 2015 #43
many of those mercuryblues Sep 2015 #55
For your info - i don't really 840high Sep 2015 #68
DU's feminists are pure hypocrites for not policing misogyny closely enough on this board? prayin4rain Sep 2015 #72
I have not seen even one feminist 840high Sep 2015 #75
BS there were SEVERAL posts arguing about not slut shaming Bristol with others arguing prayin4rain Sep 2015 #78
I'm glad there were posts about 840high Sep 2015 #79
You're forgiven for accidentally misremembering. n/t prayin4rain Sep 2015 #81
Hey - I'm pushing 80 - I don't 840high Sep 2015 #82
Pushing 80?! Well, heck, I can only hope I'm doing as well by then... prayin4rain Sep 2015 #83
I don't see anything wrong with calling out gross hypocrisy hifiguy Sep 2015 #4
So you agree as her looks have absolutely nothing to do with anything. randys1 Sep 2015 #5
looks should have nothing to do with it passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #42
Agreed. hifiguy Sep 2015 #46
Bristol was out preaching about abstinence treestar Sep 2015 #88
Couldn't care less what she looks like truebluegreen Sep 2015 #6
Enough already with the ugly comments. That is a form of discrimination. Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #7
This goes for both genders Xipe Totec Sep 2015 #9
Thank you! Also LiberalElite Sep 2015 #11
Yes, her features are the kind that make-up would transform. WinkyDink Sep 2015 #16
She is Pentecostal (Probably a Holiness variation) No makeup, no cutting of hair (except split ends) LiberalArkie Sep 2015 #32
Yes. Women have to be unattractive to be godly in such churches Maeve Sep 2015 #49
I think (if I remember correctly) so that the men in the church are not tempted. LiberalArkie Sep 2015 #58
Men in such viewpoints are such weak little things Maeve Sep 2015 #77
That explains the birth-control clothing... n/t backscatter712 Sep 2015 #102
yes, she has the Duggar look - long hair, no make up. Liberal_in_LA Sep 2015 #71
Given the current situation, I think it's fine to point out the absurdity Vinca Sep 2015 #12
The hypocrisy itself is fair game, IMO. n/t arcane1 Sep 2015 #14
Of course! Cheers! nt wolfie001 Sep 2015 #38
Right or wrong, it's human nature. See Chaucer's "Prologue," in particular the Summoner and the Par- WinkyDink Sep 2015 #13
Yup. History of literature and art would be dead if it had to be "politically correct" delrem Sep 2015 #37
Yes it is human nature to laugh at and mock people we disagree with. Chemisse Sep 2015 #64
The mockery is of the behaviors. Not of the individuals as such. delrem Sep 2015 #84
We can - and often should - criticize objectionable behaviors. Chemisse Sep 2015 #86
That picture is deplorable. But... Glassunion Sep 2015 #15
Ha! Good one. jalan48 Sep 2015 #48
Never have, never will. Rex Sep 2015 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author Iggo Sep 2015 #18
Thanks for posting this. (though I could have done without the pic example) cwydro Sep 2015 #19
I was on the fence about including the pic, but since it's referenced in the post... arcane1 Sep 2015 #21
I don't care what she looks like. But I'll say she is a hypocrite. She ignores the bible on divorce AlinPA Sep 2015 #20
Many posters on the DU are as rude as any freeper..... Logical Sep 2015 #22
internet messageboard anyone is free to register and post. Even people who like to make DU look like Sunlei Sep 2015 #24
Prison rape is another fun one. nt awoke_in_2003 Sep 2015 #60
So true! Disgusting. nt Logical Sep 2015 #61
Sure enough Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #70
I agree with you. Public political Twitter is like the old chatrooms, a cesspool of society. Sunlei Sep 2015 #23
What a gross abuse of the term "slut-shaming". Defending such hypocracy KittyWampus Sep 2015 #25
I'm not "defending hypocrisy" in any sense whatsoever. arcane1 Sep 2015 #26
Then you'd have to make a case for actual SLUT-SHAMING since you used it in your OP- KittyWampus Sep 2015 #29
I didn't write the blog. I merely posted it. arcane1 Sep 2015 #30
+1. nt MADem Sep 2015 #107
BTW, the graphic you chose to use does NOT necessarily refer to her looks. KittyWampus Sep 2015 #27
I didn't choose the graphic. It's part of the blog post I linked to. arcane1 Sep 2015 #28
How is arcane in any way defending her? uppityperson Sep 2015 #105
She is claiming religious superiority based in the bible WDIM Sep 2015 #31
No, they are making fun of her looks. And you know it. nt Logical Sep 2015 #41
That image - wtf? Oneironaut Sep 2015 #34
dunno. because if it also means I can't cut up about elehhhhna Sep 2015 #35
her ugliness is on the inside restorefreedom Sep 2015 #36
I don't give a damn how she looks. longship Sep 2015 #40
if you're gonna scream about the morality of others Skittles Sep 2015 #44
This isn't "Progressives" or even "Liberals".... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2015 #47
Can we say anything about Trump' s hair on this board? Person 2713 Sep 2015 #50
i thought of that too treestar Sep 2015 #91
But we can continue slut-shaming those with whom we agree? closeupready Sep 2015 #51
I guess her inner ugliness shows on the outside... Helen Borg Sep 2015 #52
No slut-shaming of women but yes to zipper-shaming of men ("Bill can't keep his zipper up") progree Sep 2015 #53
He was also in a position of power... awoke_in_2003 Sep 2015 #62
I wasn't talking about THAT Bill, just a generic male name. progree Sep 2015 #65
Ah- I heard "Bill" and "zipper" awoke_in_2003 Sep 2015 #66
This Bill :-) progree Sep 2015 #67
Men have traditionally been applauded for it treestar Sep 2015 #89
In high school and college, especially among boys and men, yes, putting notches in ones belt progree Sep 2015 #94
I think it's still a bit a part of gender oppression treestar Sep 2015 #97
I'm not in much of a position to oppress and control progree Sep 2015 #98
Are 'knotches' Koch notches? : ) nt MADem Sep 2015 #108
So you know this is a "real" progressive how? Another attempt to smear progressives. Skwmom Sep 2015 #54
The blogger? I don't know. But I agree with their point. arcane1 Sep 2015 #57
I agree- attacking people for looks and assumed desirability is pretty low Hydra Sep 2015 #56
I don't know who "we" is. I've never said anything about her looks. However, I have and will Chakab Sep 2015 #59
I'm guilty. I often made disparaging comments about Reagan's shoe polish hair japple Sep 2015 #63
Making fun of Trump's hair might fall into this treestar Sep 2015 #90
Good and fair point... Mike Nelson Sep 2015 #69
She could be a 10 on the outside but she's ugly as sin on the inside. hobbit709 Sep 2015 #73
I'm not going to be considerate to someone romanic Sep 2015 #74
That pictorial content is nasty. However... herding cats Sep 2015 #76
Let me know when the fat cheetos stained neckbeard jokes stop. Sen. Walter Sobchak Sep 2015 #85
She was younger at one time treestar Sep 2015 #87
Yes cut it with the looks comments libodem Sep 2015 #92
Well, there goes my good night's sleep arcane1 Sep 2015 #101
I know, I know libodem Sep 2015 #103
I know I'm bad but it is kind of true damnedifIknow Sep 2015 #93
I agree that this is way wrong dsc Sep 2015 #95
The hatred and vitriol aimed at this woman is the kind of thing that makes me a little sick CBGLuthier Sep 2015 #96
Can you stop broadbrushing with your shame on you crap? lunatica Sep 2015 #99
I agree with the post-please just stop peasant one Sep 2015 #100
And the way we do this is to pass the insults on? MADem Sep 2015 #106
I just want to kick this thread again Tipperary Sep 2015 #109
Agreed! Z_California Sep 2015 #110
Thanks for posting this. Let's talk about their ugly ideas nilram Sep 2015 #111
 

OhWiseOne

(74 posts)
39. To answer the question asked in the photo
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:21 PM
Sep 2015

Maybe she has some talents that are not evident in the photo.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
3. I pray that picture was not posted on DU till now.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 05:35 PM
Sep 2015

I was gonna say something earlier.

Sarah Palin was on the receiving end of misogyny and still is.

Moron? Completely.

Unfit to run the local carwash let alone a state or country? Absolutely

But she was treated differently because she was a Woman, period.

I dont like fat comments or ugly comments, either.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
8. Fortunately, I had never seen the picture until I ran across that blog post
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 05:40 PM
Sep 2015

And yes, there is definitely a loosening of the standards when it comes to criticizing the Palins, IMO.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
33. Same, and it bothers the hell out of me.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:43 PM
Sep 2015

I disagree with most of what comes out of her mouth, but when I see posters on this site slut shaming her, it really rubs me the wrong way. That's just not okay.

mercuryblues

(14,525 posts)
55. many of those
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:12 PM
Sep 2015

posts were alerted on and passed a jury. But those who tried to set the record straight were given vacations or just plain left DU. I don't even bother to alert anymore. It is acceptable on DU to call woman a whole host of derogatory names, even in the safe havens.

So you can take your hypocrisy claim and savor it, as you are one of the ones who helped get rid of the feminists, to protect your world view. Talk about micro aggressions.

prayin4rain

(2,065 posts)
72. DU's feminists are pure hypocrites for not policing misogyny closely enough on this board?
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:49 PM
Sep 2015

Or for picking their battles due to a constant onslaught of random insults like yours? An out of place pot shot about "DU's feminists'" non vigilance making them pure hypocrites.....ugh, some of you are so obvious.

 

840high

(17,196 posts)
75. I have not seen even one feminist
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 11:07 PM
Sep 2015

comment when Palin was slut-shamed. Or Palin's daughter. Some of you are so obvious, too. All women need to be defended not just dems.

prayin4rain

(2,065 posts)
78. BS there were SEVERAL posts arguing about not slut shaming Bristol with others arguing
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 11:18 PM
Sep 2015

they were hypocrisy shaming, not slut shaming. Your assertion that nobody commented for Bristol is flat out false. I don't recall Palin ever being slut shamed. To my knowledge she has been continuously married? ?

And btw, feminists do not automatically agree with every other woman on the planet every second. It would be literally impossible and utterly absurd.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
4. I don't see anything wrong with calling out gross hypocrisy
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 05:36 PM
Sep 2015

and roundly, even brutally mocking it for what it is.

The rest should be beside the point.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
42. looks should have nothing to do with it
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:40 PM
Sep 2015

but hypocrisy shaming should be fair game. Bristol never had a problem with looks, but her hypocrisy should be held up like a banner.

This woman's hypocrisy should as well, but I don't know when she became a born again christian. Maybe it was after all the divorces and adultery, and you know how the Christian faith deals with sin...forgiveness...you can do anything and be forgiven if you just ask for it.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
46. Agreed.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:45 PM
Sep 2015

The "get out of jail free" card that these jebus-wheezers always play to excuse their own behavior nauseates me. And for that she deserves all the hammering she gets.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
88. Bristol was out preaching about abstinence
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 09:55 AM
Sep 2015

So the hypocrisy was fair game. It was not "slut shaming" as people claimed. Yes, she has a right to live as she does, but she's telling others how to live and not living by the same rules herself.

It's like Phyllis Schafly saying we all should stay home and take care of our husbands but she's out there in the public limelight. They think they are above the rules they set for others.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
6. Couldn't care less what she looks like
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 05:37 PM
Sep 2015

but do have a problem with her self-righteousness, not because of her checkered marital past (after all, she's been forgiven for that) but rather because of her swearing to God to uphold the law of the land...except when she doesn't agree with it, apparently.

Xipe Totec

(43,888 posts)
9. This goes for both genders
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 05:42 PM
Sep 2015

Ugly men have feelings too.

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — A man was seen running around buck naked on Broadway in Times Square for hours Thursday.

As CBS2’s Steve Langford reported Thursday, police never attempted to arrest him.

“Liberation — this is America!” said the naked man running around Times Square with nothing but a coat of paint.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027139869


LiberalElite

(14,691 posts)
11. Thank you! Also
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 05:52 PM
Sep 2015

a DU commenter on another thread posted regarding the looks of the demonstrators on her behalf that they looked "like they had never been on a date in their lives." Uncalled for and mean.

P.S. Davis isn't ugly not that it matters anyway. She just chooses to not wear makeup (probably for religious reasons).

LiberalArkie

(15,703 posts)
32. She is Pentecostal (Probably a Holiness variation) No makeup, no cutting of hair (except split ends)
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:36 PM
Sep 2015

no hair do, except a bun. No showing of any part of legs. Dresses have to be at least mid-calf and loose. So of the young girls that leave the church and start dressing like the "heathen" dress look 1000% different.

Maeve

(42,271 posts)
49. Yes. Women have to be unattractive to be godly in such churches
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:49 PM
Sep 2015

Men are not under the same restrictions.

LiberalArkie

(15,703 posts)
58. I think (if I remember correctly) so that the men in the church are not tempted.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:13 PM
Sep 2015

But from what I saw while going, it was really the women who were the bosses in a devious sort of way. I was reading that she did not become a Christian until 2011 and pretty settled down since.

Maeve

(42,271 posts)
77. Men in such viewpoints are such weak little things
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 11:15 PM
Sep 2015

Yet willing to face the temptations in secular life--bless their little hearts!--as long as their wimmin ain't temptations to no one! And they aren't....

F*%# that $#!t. If Gawd wanted us ugly, he should have made us that way.

Vinca

(50,237 posts)
12. Given the current situation, I think it's fine to point out the absurdity
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 05:53 PM
Sep 2015

that she has been married so many times and is somehow concerned enough about the sanctity of marriage to go to jail. She's a scamster after fundraising money . . . don't be fooled by all the Jesus-y stuff.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
37. Yup. History of literature and art would be dead if it had to be "politically correct"
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:10 PM
Sep 2015

Bonfires would be blazing with burning books and we'd be left with boring sermons from boring people.

Chemisse

(30,804 posts)
64. Yes it is human nature to laugh at and mock people we disagree with.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:28 PM
Sep 2015

We see it all the time in children, and in some adults. Playground bullies are indulging in their 'human nature.' That just means we need to be more vigilant about guarding against those behaviors.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
84. The mockery is of the behaviors. Not of the individuals as such.
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 01:47 AM
Sep 2015

Chaucer presents archetypes of certain hypocritical cynical greedy ... behaviors.
But Chaucer doesn't present these archetypes just so we'll disregard them! He presents them in all their absurdity in his characters, so we can recognize them. When we recognize those behaviors in individuals, and especially if we recognize artistically similar visual patterns (and I mean, there are plenty here) reproduced in front of our eyes, we are prone to comment.

Chemisse

(30,804 posts)
86. We can - and often should - criticize objectionable behaviors.
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 05:27 AM
Sep 2015

My complaint is mocking people for their appearance (calling someone fat or ugly) and for behaviors that we ordinarily would not find problematic - simply because we don't like what the person is doing (ie slut-shaming).

Response to arcane1 (Original post)

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
19. Thanks for posting this. (though I could have done without the pic example)
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:03 PM
Sep 2015

There's a really ugly thread doing just that here on DU - shaming her for her looks and even FFS - her fashion sense.

It's obvious that misogyny is alive and well on DU.

It's also obvious that some DUers are still living their middle school years.

Sad.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
21. I was on the fence about including the pic, but since it's referenced in the post...
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:08 PM
Sep 2015

I decided to post it. I'm glad I haven't seen it posted here!!

AlinPA

(15,071 posts)
20. I don't care what she looks like. But I'll say she is a hypocrite. She ignores the bible on divorce
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:06 PM
Sep 2015

yet she acts differently about gay people.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
22. Many posters on the DU are as rude as any freeper.....
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:12 PM
Sep 2015

Making fun of weight (Christy), tragic deaths are made fun on by using the "Darwin Award" shit.

This place is disgusting at times since it is a progressive site.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
24. internet messageboard anyone is free to register and post. Even people who like to make DU look like
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:18 PM
Sep 2015

a bunch of foul mouthed slut shaming, woman hater, bigots, are free to post here.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
25. What a gross abuse of the term "slut-shaming". Defending such hypocracy
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:19 PM
Sep 2015

make no sense on DU. Your OP makes me

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
26. I'm not "defending hypocrisy" in any sense whatsoever.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:21 PM
Sep 2015

I even called it "fair game" in this very thread.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
29. Then you'd have to make a case for actual SLUT-SHAMING since you used it in your OP-
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:22 PM
Sep 2015

as if that is what is occurring.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
30. I didn't write the blog. I merely posted it.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:23 PM
Sep 2015

Go back to the recent threads about Bristol Palin and tell me you don't see a problem.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
27. BTW, the graphic you chose to use does NOT necessarily refer to her looks.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:21 PM
Sep 2015

It probably does.

But how nice you defend her.

WDIM

(1,662 posts)
31. She is claiming religious superiority based in the bible
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:26 PM
Sep 2015

Yet Jesus said divorce is adultry. Therefore she is a hypocrite. And that is what people are pointing out.

Oneironaut

(5,487 posts)
34. That image - wtf?
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:48 PM
Sep 2015

I don't care what she did. The image is what's ugly. There are far better things to attack this woman for than stooping that low (and disgusting).

 

elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
35. dunno. because if it also means I can't cut up about
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 06:57 PM
Sep 2015

Cruz' soft body and slack squared lips then NO.

longship

(40,416 posts)
40. I don't give a damn how she looks.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:26 PM
Sep 2015

But she is ripe for ridicule. However, the only looks thing I would ridicule her for is her sartorial taste, which directly connected to her religion, which is always ripe for ridicule.

But how she looks otherwise is meaningless to me. People look different and that is fine.

Ridicule is good in this case. Like the SitNextTo Kim Davis Twitter account.

Hilarious poking fun at Kim Davis from an alleged staffer who sits next to her at work. And yes, she has a rather bad attitude.

https://twitter.com/nexttokimdavis?lang=en

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
47. This isn't "Progressives" or even "Liberals"....
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:46 PM
Sep 2015

The world isn't split along those lines in all things.

The same people who laugh and share this are no doubt laughing at anti-Hillary stuff too.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
91. i thought of that too
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 10:04 AM
Sep 2015

all I can think of is that his hair is that way by his choice. It is the outlandishness of the style.

His marriages are fair game only if he starts touting the right wing sex rules to apply to the rest of us. Which is why he'll probably be quiet on those issues. So far he has not sounded Jesus-y. Just xenophobic.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
51. But we can continue slut-shaming those with whom we agree?
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:53 PM
Sep 2015


I don't slut-shame here on DU, not because the word 'slut' defines nothing that exists in reality, but because my friends here have asked me not to. And in my world, when a friend asks me to stop doing something, I generally stop it, without needing to hear why. I stop it because my friend asked me to stop it.

I do refer to some of my friends as sluts, and I do it in their presence only if I know they will laugh or agree.

Same applies to looks.

On the other hand, when it comes to adversaries, I'm disinclined to accommodate. If a female adversary has 50 bazillion consensual sex partners, that doesn't make her - as defined in the dictionary - a 'slut'? When Chris Christie furrows his brow and wags his finger at a school teacher, screaming, 'I'm TIRED of you PEOPLE!!!", then no, I'm sorry, I will not be polite if the situation demands a bald reality check.

Anyway, more generally, I think this is the first post I've made to a gender controversy thread in a long time, and it will likely be my last for a long time.

progree

(10,894 posts)
53. No slut-shaming of women but yes to zipper-shaming of men ("Bill can't keep his zipper up")
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:00 PM
Sep 2015

As wonderfully wonderful progressives, we can surely all agree on this wonderfully wonderful double standard.

I don't know if this is true, but:

Kim Davis, the Kentucky clerk - Kim cheated on Husband #1 with Future Husband #3, got pregnant by #3, divorced #1, married Husband #2, who adopted #3’s twins, divorced Husband #2, married Husband #3, divorced Husband #3, and re-married Husband #2 …AKA “The One”.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027138602


I suspect that if it was a man cheating on his wife and getting a woman -- not his wife -- pregnant, and going through all these marriages and divorces, we'd be zipper-shaming him. As we should, of course.

progree

(10,894 posts)
65. I wasn't talking about THAT Bill, just a generic male name.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:28 PM
Sep 2015

Around here, it would have been the same if it was "Joe 6-pack".

But like I said, I of course agree that men should be zipper-shamed while women never should be slut-shamed.

Everything I read about "THAT Bill" -- she was the instigator. Though certainly I agree that Bill should have shown some sense and restraint. And yes, especially as the boss, regardless of who the instigator was.

However, the same can be said of the bad choices of some women, I think.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
89. Men have traditionally been applauded for it
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 10:00 AM
Sep 2015

That's a huge difference. Women were the ones to be controlled, and it still exists to some extent.

progree

(10,894 posts)
94. In high school and college, especially among boys and men, yes, putting notches in ones belt
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 10:51 AM
Sep 2015

was seen as macho, "real man" etc. And if he "got it" by smooth talk and lies, as is usually the case, then too many see that as just "part of the game", rather than the reprehensible conduct that it really is.

But in judging politicians for office or people in official positions, the reverse is true, at least that's my impression. Its always zipper-shaming if a male, (and yes, almost always considered inappropriate or worse for a woman).

Anyway, for me, whether one's sexual conduct is harmful or not is not a gender issue for me, but rather a Golden Rule thing. Who is being harmed by questionable sexual conduct, especially where dishonesty / deceit is involved.

[font color = red]On Edit: knotches -> notches[/font]. Thanks MADem. It was Saturday knight, what d'ya expect?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
97. I think it's still a bit a part of gender oppression
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 12:05 PM
Sep 2015

and a double standard still exists, milder maybe. The male politicians are not shamed - in fact they usually don't end up resigning. I guess Wiener did. But that was more than adultery. Clinton just got more popular.

A female politician being caught hasn't happened so far as I can tell. They are older when they get elected, so it would mostly be about how she's so unattractive it is amazing, blah blah. Though I'm not so sure it would have to cause her resignation.

Palin was considered attractive by some, so if she got caught doing something like that as Veep, who knows what the reaction would have been. You'd think the right should turn on her because of it while the left would not care. But the usual seems to be for the left to say it is hypocritical and the right to ignore it when it involves one of them.

progree

(10,894 posts)
98. I'm not in much of a position to oppress and control
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 02:27 PM
Sep 2015

I think Clinton's ratings improved not because of his Monica-thing -- everyone I know saw that as a character flaw -- but as a result of the RepubliCONS over-doing it with the rhetoric, the hypocrisy, and the impeachment stuff. The economy also helped -- kicking into ultra-high gear around that time (the Goldilocks economy -- not too hot, not too cold, Dow Jones doubling and redoubling, damn near every pundit saying recessions were a thing of the past that the Fed has learned to control, yada).

I don't agree that male politicians aren't shamed. But I'd agree that a female politician doing the same things would get a lot more criticism.

There have been female politicians that have had adulterous affairs, I remember about 2 or 3 back around the late 1990s or so. I'd have trouble finding notes that old -- I did keep track for awhile. Maybe I could do the Google.

On control and oppression -- Yes, I don't doubt there is a glass ceiling. They can't jog or walk safely in some areas that I can (I think about that just about every time I jog. Similarly about minorities -- in some areas you'd have idiots calling 911). There is a pay equity issue, and on and on. I wouldn't want to be a female.

And I don't doubt that, as a male, if I was juggling say 3 girlfriends, it wouldn't get my neighbors a-clucking as much as if my single female neighbor had different boyfriends coming and going. (We live in townhouses, so the whole row can see who is coming and going).

I used to feel out - of - control in one key area -- if I had sex, I had no control of the outcome. Even if we both solemnly agreed in writing that I don't want kids, and that she will use a reliable birth control method, and if all that fails and she becomes pregnant then she agrees to have an abortion -- still, it is entirely up to her whether she continues that pregnancy and whether I'm on the hook for 18 years of child support. (As I grew older and less "sensitive" down there, condoms didn't work . Would have loved having a workable male birth control option).

But all that is in my past. Oh, oh well. Age has its compensations.

Then there's paternity fraud... "State tells Detroit man: Pay for child that isn't yours or go to jail!" http://www.democraticunderground.com/10581303



Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
54. So you know this is a "real" progressive how? Another attempt to smear progressives.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:06 PM
Sep 2015


Who has such a hatred of progressives that helped to elect Obama. Hmmmm....
 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
57. The blogger? I don't know. But I agree with their point.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:13 PM
Sep 2015

I didn't realize this was a controversial position to take

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
56. I agree- attacking people for looks and assumed desirability is pretty low
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:12 PM
Sep 2015

Last edited Fri Sep 4, 2015, 09:54 PM - Edit history (2)

There are plenty of things to say about her...but the best thing to say is nothing at all. She doesn't want to adjust to the change, and I'm sure her pastor is not encouraging her to do so either.

That said, if she feels that strongly about it, she needs to do the mature thing and resign, not fight this out in court and in jail.

 

Chakab

(1,727 posts)
59. I don't know who "we" is. I've never said anything about her looks. However, I have and will
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:17 PM
Sep 2015

continue to take her to task regarding her rank hypocrisy given her compulsion to impose her "morals" on others by shaming them and discriminating against them.

Same goes for Bristol Palin.

japple

(9,809 posts)
63. I'm guilty. I often made disparaging comments about Reagan's shoe polish hair
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:27 PM
Sep 2015

and GW's dead possum hair. But I never called either one a slut.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
90. Making fun of Trump's hair might fall into this
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 10:01 AM
Sep 2015

but it's so ridiculous and by his choice that I suppose it is different.

romanic

(2,841 posts)
74. I'm not going to be considerate to someone
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 10:49 PM
Sep 2015

who views me as a perverted faggot just because I want to marry my boyfriend. I could care less about her looks but honestly, if someone wants to make fun of her appearance then so be it, I won't stop them or shed tears if her feelings get hurt. Boohoo and all that.

herding cats

(19,558 posts)
76. That pictorial content is nasty. However...
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 11:08 PM
Sep 2015

Unless she plans on seeking religious based annulments on her fist and third marriages and then remarries her second, and thus, fourth husband again within the sanction of the scriptures. She is a Christian hypocrite. If she's going to claim all biblical text should influence her life, then fine. All of it should, not just that which she chooses to adopt vs. that which she chooses to ignore for personal reasons.

The rest of the personal matters are between her and her version of God. Just don't bring your convoluted version of Christianity into the public if you don't want to be called out for being a hypocrite.

Realistically, any one of us can hybridize a religion to make it suit our personal desires and prejudices. There's no way that hybridization should become a legal standing according to the first amendment to the US Constitution. No matter how many fools we get to follow our doctrine. After all, fools are a dime a dozen.

Edited to add: She's a very ugly person in her heart as far as I'm concerned.

 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
85. Let me know when the fat cheetos stained neckbeard jokes stop.
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 02:09 AM
Sep 2015

I don't care about assholes getting their feelings hurt or people who rush to the defense of the assholes because those criticizing the said assholes aren't conforming to their politically correct style guide.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
87. She was younger at one time
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 09:51 AM
Sep 2015

Looking at her now, she is just older - she was probably good looking when young, like most of us.

Getting married four times is not necessarily about attractiveness either. It's about not being able to keep a relationship going.

But yeah, especially since we're on the liberal side here - it is more a conservative thing to do that to women. (One really funny one had compared conservative women and liberal women to claim conservative women were better looking, but undid itself by doctoring the photos of the well known liberal women to make them look worse - well if they had to do that, maybe the liberal women weren't so bad looking).

dsc

(52,152 posts)
95. I agree that this is way wrong
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 10:56 AM
Sep 2015

and any focus on her looks is way wrong. But as to pointing out she has been married four times oh fuck that noise. She claims that she is unable to sign marriage certificates for same sex couples because of the Bible. The Bible quite specifically states, over and over again, that divorce is only an option for adultery (oh and not your own adultery but the other person's). If she is going to have a grand mal hissy fit over doing her job because of the Bible, then she needs to actually live by the Bible. And people pointing out that she isn't doing that isn't slut shaming, it is hypocrite shaming.

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
96. The hatred and vitriol aimed at this woman is the kind of thing that makes me a little sick
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 11:01 AM
Sep 2015

of DU and so-called progressives.

We won. Have some fucking class.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
99. Can you stop broadbrushing with your shame on you crap?
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 02:31 PM
Sep 2015

Not everyone does what you generally accuse everyone of doing.

peasant one

(150 posts)
100. I agree with the post-please just stop
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 02:58 PM
Sep 2015

What if this woman looked like your mother, your sister, your aunt, or yourself--how would you feel to see this post? Come on people, see what you do to others it is really not that hard. Ridicule her ideas - not her looks...please!

MADem

(135,425 posts)
106. And the way we do this is to pass the insults on?
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 03:50 PM
Sep 2015

Maybe you could make the graphic bigger, so everyone can get a good outraged look at it?

I don't buy your thesis.

Let's start with Bristol. When you make a QUARTER MILLION BUCKS touting abstinence, and telling people to NOT get pregnant, and then, after you've cashed in, get caught out DOING what you tell others to NOT do, that is called HYPOCRISY.

Not Slut-shaming.

If some famous male dweeb ran around telling every young man to keep it in their pants, took home a large six figure payday for so doing, and then impregnated a girlfriend, the very same excoriation would apply. He'd be a HYPOCRITE. A LIAR. A craven opportunist. A grifter. A bullshit artist. A "do as I say, not as I do" horse shit king.


smh. We ARE allowed to point out when people don't live up to their finger wagging proclamations.

As for your graphic, above, you could take the very same thought, put pictures of DONALD TRUMP in the squares in place of the anti-gay clerk, and the same question would resonate. Calling someone "ugly" or "unattractive" is a MEAN thing to do--it's not "slut shaming." It's somewhat sexist, certainly, because women do tend to take that "appearance" hit more than men do, but slowly--too slowly, but slowly--that is changing. Making fun of someone's appearance isn't nice, but it's not calling them a "slut" in all, or even most, instances.

The whole "slut" thing has to do with challenging people for their sexual practices--when they are quietly living their lives, not telling other people what to do, sure, that's inappropriate. But when they are commanding people to eschew sex (or certain TYPES of sex), and banging like rabbits themselves, it's entirely appropriate to call them the hypocritical, bullshitting assholes that they are, and not be subjected to any "waaah, you're being mean" guilty essays.

I hate it when terms are misused, and 'slut shaming' doesn't apply in either of those instances. These people--Bristol and Anti-Gay Clerk--are HYPOCRITICAL ASSHOLES. They don't have my sympathy, because they do not DESERVE it.

 

Tipperary

(6,930 posts)
109. I just want to kick this thread again
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 04:07 PM
Sep 2015

and thank all the great posters here. I am glad to see the shallow minority are just that. A minority.

Z_California

(650 posts)
110. Agreed!
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 04:18 PM
Sep 2015

I've been saying the same thing about attacks on melania trump. As if we don't have enough legitimate reasons to criticize Kim Davis or Donald Trump.

nilram

(2,886 posts)
111. Thanks for posting this. Let's talk about their ugly ideas
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 04:28 PM
Sep 2015

not their ugly appearance or clothing choices. This happens more often with women, but I've also seen this happen with men. (Can we stop talking about Donald Trump's hair? Just as tiresome and irrelevant as the talk about Bernie's hair or Hillary's hair.) It's not going to change soon, but thanks for posting this as a step down that path.

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