Retired US Army General who singled-handedly stopped another Korean war abused by NC police….

[MrScorpio]

Retired 84-year-old U.S. Army General “Ashamed To Be An American” After Police Violently Handcuffed Him Over Chinese Food Delivery Dispute

William “Bill” Livsey, 84, of Fayetteville, Georgia is a retired four-star U.S. Army general and Silver Star recipient for heroism.

On August 15, Livsey ordered Chinese food delivery to his home and got into a dispute with the driver over the $80.60 order when the general’s debit card was declined. The restaurant refused to take a personal check. And here is where the details become hazy.

Delivery driver Ryan Irvin claims the 84-year-old Livsey put his left hand on the driver’s neck and pushed him against the refrigerator. The police were called, and neighbors then witnessed a brutal arrest.

When the police arrived, officers claimed Livsey refused to willingly sit in the back of a police car and had to be forced in by three officers, and also claim Livsey “constrict his muscles and refuse to put his hands behind his back while being placed under arrest for robbery.”

The Rest: http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/08/retired-84-year-old-u-s-army-general-ashamed-to-be-an-american-after-police-violently-handcuffed-him-over-chinese-food-delivery-dispute/

My Story:

He commanded all US Forces in South Korea when I was stationed at Osan AB back in the mid-eighties. Most people aren't aware of this, but he single-handedly prevented all-out war from breaking out on the Korean peninsula. While I was stationed there, right before the Asian Games in 1986, a bomb exploded at Seoul's Kimpo Airport, which killed five people and injured several others. http://articles.latimes.com/1986-09-15/news/mn-11820_1_north-korea

After the bombing, in which the South Koreans blamed North Korea, the ROK forces informed the General that they were going to INVADE North Korea. This was something which had the potential of starting another world war. Remember, that back during the Cold War there were a lot of itchy trigger fingers on this planet.

Anyway, General Livsey told the ROK military that there was no way that they were going to invade North Korea on his watch. After some tense moments, the General threatened to remove ALL US Forces from South Korea and told the ROKs that, if they were going to invade North Korea, they were going to do that without our help. The ROKs eventually got the message and backed down.

I only found out about this after reading an interview he gave to Stars And Stripes prior to his end of tour as Commanding General of US Forces in South Korea, when they asked him what was the most interesting thing that happened during his time. Needless to say, I was pretty much shocked to find out that we almost went to war. If you've ever been stationed in Korea, you'd know that a war there these days would kill just about everybody. Even in the time before the North had nukes.

Anyway, I own this man my life and the lives of just about everyone on the Korean Peninsula.

I'm appalled to find out that after he served this country to keep the peace, he's been treated so horribly by the police over a muffed up Chinese food delivery.

[tabasco]

1. General probably would have kicked their asses one at a time.

GO ARMY!

[Human101948]

2. He was probably being an asshole from what's reported here...

And if he did assault that fellow I have no sympathy for him. It sounds like he escalated a frustrating situation into a debacle.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

3. Unfortunately, in males especially,

the parts of the brain that tend to go downhill fastest are those that deal with judgement and self-control. More quickly in some rather than others, and it's one of the things I worry most about in getting older myself...

[Jake Stern]

4. He may have been a hero in Korea

but if the article and police are correct he was an epic asshole here. Grabbing people by the neck and slamming them because they won't take your check is not only dickish it's also criminal.

Guess your hero learned he can't treat civilians the way he did his subordinates in the military.

[1939]

22. Worked with, not for Livesey when he was a two star

He isn't that big of a guy physically. He is a real stand up guy and I saw him put his career on the line telling a four star that the four star was wrong and he, Livesey, was right (which he was). He was also a guy who was considerate of those beneath him.

[Javaman]

5. not knowing this man, he being at 84 years old...

he could be "sun-setting" aka pre-dementia. Sometimes it manifests itself in violent ways.

Just saying. I saw it in my mother.

[MrScorpio]

6. That's quite possible

I wouldn't rule it out.

[Major Nikon]

21. One of the first things dementia affects is self control

[NotoriousRBG]

7. Man chokes delivery driver, is arrested.

Police to blame. More at 11.

[MrScorpio]

8. What's remarkable here is how easily some folks justify abuse by law enforcement...

Because of whatever crimes that were committed by the accused.

The bar for justifying police abuse is way too low in America.

[NotoriousRBG]

9. Arresting someone for committing a violent crime isn't abuse.

The police follow a simple philosophy:

Ask, tell, make.

First they ask for compliance. Then they order compliance. And then they force compliance.

He shouldn't have resisted.

[MrScorpio]

10. Since we're talking in general terms now...

You strike me as one of those people who believes that LEOs never engage in abuse, or cruelty and are at least justified in which ever way they treat suspects... Even when those suspects end up beaten to a bloody pulp or shot to death.

Which begs me to ask you, if that's in fact the case, what's the weather like on that planet you're living on?

[Egnever]

11. .

[NotoriousRBG]

12. You're mistaken.

I'm simply not one to get up in arms about what, on its face, is a lawful arrest and necessary use of force.

[MrScorpio]

14. That's laughable...

Especially when cops are rarely held accountable for excessive use of force in this country, and when they are it's only under the most extreme of circumstances and, not every time where there's irrefutable video evidence against them.

Sure, the 84 year old General, who quite possibly may be suffering from pre-dementia, was only slightly roughed up by almost a dozen cops, and yeah, had he assaulted the delivery guy an arrest was warranted. No question that he should have been arrested.

However, I know for a fact that cops escalate situations at the drop of a hat and engage in a level of violence that's overly excessive.

No one can question that policing in general in this country operates that way. To say otherwise means that one is blind to the overall problem.

But I'm also wondering what justified not letting him shower for three days while withholding his medication from him.

Gee, with the spate of suspects dying in police custody lately, and departments not having a freaking clue how these have people died, I would imagine that the General is lucky to make it through his time behind bars alive, right?

[NotoriousRBG]

18. I wouldn't say being made to sit in the police car amounts to being roughed up.

[MrScorpio]

19. And now we're back to the General's case specifically...

Color me surprised.

[NotoriousRBG]

20. Indeed.

As I said last trip around, your assumption was incorrect that I think the police can do no wrong.

It's just silly to think that someone who commits a violent crime and resists arrest won't have some level of force used against them to gain compliance. This case is about a specific incident. One where there wasn't excessive force.

Afraid to acknowledge appropriate use of force? Color me surprised.

[MrScorpio]

23. You're presuming that he wasn't unnessarily roughed up when he was arrested

But cops behave in certain patterns and this case shows the signs as well.

I have good reasons to presume that the police in this country routinely escalate their encounters and always use more force than necessary, as in "teaching someone a lesson." This is because best practices are both shared and happen far too frequently to be coincidental.

Although this wasn't the most extreme of cases, from what little it does show, the signs are there as well. For one, the sheer number of officers it took to take him into custody. Cops tend to gang up on people, it happened here.

Next, the handcuffing process is usually done to inflict discomfort and pain, i.e., "resistance," resistence justifies an escalated use of force, such as hitting, punching, the painful twisting of limbs and so on. I'm sure you've seen cops chant a mantra of "stop resisting" during arrests, even when suspects appear to be compliant. That's because one of the more frequently used charges against the suspects that cops beat shit out of and call it "assaulting an officer" is "resisting arrest." These are things that cops do when they say they're "gaining compliance." It's done to obtain the worst outcome possible for suspect, while extending an aura of liability for LEOs whenever the encounters turn out to be excessively abusive.

Don't tell me that you haven't seen cops behave this way.

From the General's complaint, this scenario most likely occurred as well.

As an aside, sometimes "resisting arrest" is the only charge against a particular subject. How does that work?

Then we have the fact that he was kept from showering and withheld his medication while in custody. An 84 year old man is very likely to soil himself, especially after a violent encounter with the police. Imagine what it's like to sit around in ones own filth for three days. And really, what good did it do to withhold his medication from him?

Cops beat the shit out of people merely because they can do it and get away with it, not because they need it. If they do "need" to, many times it's because they choose to escalate at the drop of a hat.

[NotoriousRBG]

24. Lol, your use of absolutes is amusing.

[MrScorpio]

26. The evidence is overwhelming that police brutality is at epidemic levels in this country...

And that any of us can be victimized by it.

It doesn't bode well for any of us whenever so-called liberals are desensitized to it, mitigate it whenever it's plain as day, mitigate and dismiss it whenever it occurs.

After all, suspects should always "comply," or else, right?

[tabasco]

25. Welcome back!

LOL!

[Octafish]

13. News to me.

Anyway, General Livsey told the ROK military that there was no way that they were going to invade North Korea on his watch. After some tense moments, the General threatened to remove ALL US Forces from South Korea and told the ROKs that, if they were going to invade North Korea, they were going to do that without our help. The ROKs eventually got the message and backed down.

Thank you, Mr. Scorpio! Thanks for your service to the nation, too!

PS: The cops over-reacted beating the hell out of the general to show who's in charge. DUers who don't understand the point may never understand the point.

[MrScorpio]

15. Bingo. nt

[cwydro]

16. This was a thread about a month ago.

Old news. No idea what happened though.

It does seem the guy acted like a turd...retired general or not.

[MrScorpio]

17. I'm not defending the General's assault on the delivery guy

If he did that then he should have been arrested.

I'm merely question the amount of excessive force used against him by the police and the shoddy and potentially life- threateningly way we was kept in custody.