Texas county defend right to hire ONLY Baptists.

[dixiegrrrrl]

Robert Lloyd explained at a press conference that Williamson County asked about his views on marriage, abortion and religion during a 2013 interview for a job at the Williamson County Precinct 3 Constable’s Office.

“I was shocked,” Lloyd said, according to KVUE. “I was sick to my stomach when I left because I had never believed that things like this in government would go on.”

Video depositions obtained by KVUE show Williamson County Commissioner Lisa Birkman and other commissioners admitting that applicants were asked about abortion and marriage.

Lloyd’s lawyer, Wayne Krause Yang, asserted at the press conference that the commissioners refused to hire applicants who were not Baptists.

“If you don’t go to the church that they go to, you can’t have a job as a public employee in Williamson County,” Yang noted.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/texas-lawyer-exposes-religious-hiring-test-for-peace-officers-county-only-wanted-baptist-constables/comments/#disqus

[daleanime]

1. ......

[roguevalley]

31. let them. just pull every single penny of federal aid they get, fuckers.

[HassleCat]

2. I wish that happened to me

I could retire on the settlement I won from Williamson County.

[TexasTowelie]

55. You might be able to retire,

but it might be difficult to live in Williamson County. The cost of living has jumped quite a bit, I went to college there and would like to move back but it might not be feasible from a financial perspective.

[shenmue]

3. Hello, lawsuits

[hifiguy]

23. Easy ones to win, too.

Very easy. Very seldom can you file the complaint while holding the smoking gun in your hand. Plaintiffs' employment discrimination lawyers will make a killing here.

[progressoid]

4. RELIGIOUS FREEDOM!!! PERSECUTION!!!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

[RKP5637]

5. Years ago I was a manager at a huge company that had a checklist which

when I came on they had just gotten rid of.

You were supposed to check for: married or not and intentions (unmarried means not stable), see if any teeth missing or false, etc. (means unhealthy), try to look at the bottom of their shoes to see if worn (means don't care about appearance), hair cut short or not (long hair means unstable hippie type), see what kind of car they drove- sporty or not (sporty car means unstable and flighty), try to determine church affiliation (implies stability) , nationality (yep), and on and on. It was incredible.

They had totally dumped, deleted, fumigated the entire list about the time I joined them. And I doubt they were the only company that used to do this way back.

[1StrongBlackMan]

12. They got rid of the physical list; but, what about the attitude behind the list? n/t

[hamsterjill]

32. Very good point!

n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

36. It has been my experience that a good lawsuit will have "smoking gun" protocols/manuals ...

shredded with the quickness ... But it just becomes something unwritten and spoken, but completely understood.

[RKP5637]

42. Yep, we were told to pull it all out of the manager's guidelines books. Maybe there was some type

of lawsuit going on back then.

[RKP5637]

38. I'm definitly sure that stayed behind with some. HR became very concerned about equality, so

that was good. But it's hard to believe some of the hiring manages were not biased.

[classof56]

14. I used to love the questions about what birth control method I used (if married of course),

And what day care arrangements were in place, after married and had children, of course. Oh, and the ones about what job my husband had and what it paid, implication being why was I considering working outside the home, didn't he make enough money to support me? Plus, it was a given that male employees made more than females doing the same jobs, 'cause men had families to support and thus needed more money, and besides single females could always find a "guy" to take her out to eat, plus she could reside with her parents or share an apartment with 5 other females, thus it didn't cost as much to live. All these were actual questions/attitudes those of us making our way through the work force encountered back in the 50's and 60's, when I was navigating the employment scene.

Ah, yes, the good ol' pre-Feminist Movement days. Younger females these days would do well to pay attention to the battles that were fought and won from which they've benefited. Appears to me, there are those who would love to launch those battles once more. Part of the War on Women, as I see it. Let's not go there again, okay?

Rant's over now. Blessings to all.

[nichomachus]

24. I got into a management position in 1973

I was in charge of hiring for one department, as well as salaries, etc. When I looked at the salary schedule, I almost passed out.

Women made about 60 to 70 percent of what men made -- for the exact same job.

When a man got married, he got an immediate raise, because he "had responsibilities." If they had a kid, he got another raise. Meanwhile, single men doing the exact same job got squat.

When a woman got married, that was the end of her raises, because she had someone to support her.

[RKP5637]

39. Yep, that sounds about par back then, it was incredible! n/t

[tblue37]

46. Remember "The Good Time News" episode of the _Mary Tyler Moore_ Show,

in which she confronted Lou Grant about being subjected to gender-based wage discrimination?

[treestar]

49. what's odd about that too is

that now we think of them as wanting to pay as low wages as possible. If they could get women to do the same job for less money, you'd think they'd realize the men would too and try to cut their wages. At least, that might be how it is seen now.

[elehhhhna]

51. why do you think there have been no real bargains in the past 25 yrs?

That's a big part of the reason.

[hamsterjill]

33. Well said!!!

"Younger females these days would do well to pay attention to the battles that were fought and won from which they've benefited."


A point that I would like to see made over and over and over again!

[RKP5637]

41. Yep, I bet many today do not realize what it was like back then. It was horrible, and some

politicians want to go right back to those times.

[JDPriestly]

19. My last name is actually German, but sometimes people think it is Jewish.

I interviewed for a job and at the end of the interview, the HR lady suddenly and rather awkwardly said to me, "Everybody in this _____ goes to church. She looked up at me, and her look demanded an answer, so I, a Methodist minister's daughter, naively said, "Oh, that's nice." She looked at me like I was crazy. I realized over a year later that she thought I was Jewish and wanted me to tell her what religion I was.

I did not get the job. And if that company was that bigoted, I'm sure glad I didn't.

II don't want to spend my days in the company of intolerant people. Not healthy.

[RKP5637]

40. Yep, hearing that, I sure bet they were bigoted. n/t

[smirkymonkey]

44. Unbelievable! What part of the country are you from, if I may ask?

A statement like that should be considered unnecessarily intimidating and borderline illegal. You are better off not being around people like that, but still, what if you had very few options in an area where most people thought that way. It's so wrong.

[JDPriestly]

47. Los Angeles which makes it all the more unbelievable.

[smirkymonkey]

48. Wow! I thought this would have been the deep south or the midwest.

I never would have guessed LA. Sorry that happened to you!

[haikugal]

6. Absurd wastes of taxpayer money.....

[yuiyoshida]

7. There are so many begging for a Theocracy...

Could you imagine? They would be stoning people left and right who didn't believe as they did. There would be few left in the town..but they would be happy!

[Arugula Latte]

20. These yahoos wouldn't be stoning people -- they'd just shoot them with guns.

[atreides1]

27. And in Texas

Where they scream the loudest about how they're losing their freedoms!!!

[truebluegreen]

8. Even if they skipped high school civics

they should be able to understand this clause: "...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

[nxylas]

9. Seems more applicable here than in the Kim whatserface case

A lot of people were quoting this clause as if "no religious test for public office" meant the same thing as "public officials don't get to use their religious convictions to get out of doing their jobs". It doesn't, but it was designed to prevent situations like this one.

[JDPriestly]

21. Here is the First Amendment phrase that requires Kim to marry LGBTs.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/first_amendment

The 14th Amendment guarantees that these rights also limit the states and employees of the states and requires public employees like Kim to respect those rights in dealing with the public.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" means that, regardless of the religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers or of people today, our legal system and our laws are not to establish or represent or be limited by or based on the beliefs of religion in general or of any specific religion.

Government employees are, in their work, to follow the laws of our nation and local governments. They have to leave specific beliefs not a part of our laws at home if they want to work for the government.

Kim is attempting to establish her religion when she refuses to follow the law of our country and refuses marriage licenses to LGBT people based on her personal religious beliefs.

She may not perform her government job according to her personal religious beliefs if those beliefs conflict with the law. And her denial of licenses to LGBT couples conflicts with the law.

I hope this is a simple, clear explanation for people who do not understand what separation of church and state means.

[nxylas]

26. Yes, that's the phrase that should be quoted

Not the "religious test for public office" clause, which seems better suited to cases like the one in the OP (to bring this thread back on topic).

[JDPriestly]

28. Yes. The religious test for public office applies to the OP.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

25. This immediately sprung to my mind

Something tells me that they are going to try to do this anyway.

[Dont call me Shirley]

10. Does that include black Baptists too? Somehow I'm thinking not.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

13. The Black Baptists are separate.

The Southern Baptist Convention never came out against slavery. Therefore, the National Baptist Convention was formed which includes the Missionary Baptists, who are Black.

I'm sure there's all kinds of nepotism and discrimination in hiring that goes on that violates the employment laws but it isn't known about nor is it reported.

The only way to get their attention is to sue the bastards.

[Dont call me Shirley]

18. I was married into a SoBap family (why, I was very confused) they were the craziest people ever.

[TexasTowelie]

57. I went to college in Williamson County

and two of my black friends worked for the county as juvenile probation officers. They were members of one of the black Baptist churches in Georgetown. One of the guys died about four years ago from lung and brain cancer while the other guy is still employed and has been working for the county for over 25 years.

I've also covered this story extensively in the Texas Group when it first began in 2013. Here is the link to the most recent article with the earlier threads noted below:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/107828347

[Dont call me Shirley]

59. Thanks, Towelie. I'm glad he still has his job. This "hiring requirement" can't be legal.

[Jim Lane]

11. Misleading headline on this OP

The headline makes it seem as if the County has admitted applying a religious test but said it was justified. The linked article doesn't support such a statement. The allegation of a religious test comes from the plaintiff who's suing the County and from his lawyer.

The article does report on evidence that will help the plaintiff greatly:

Video depositions obtained by KVUE show Williamson County Commissioner Lisa Birkman and other commissioners admitting that applicants were asked about abortion and marriage.

Even that, however, is a far cry from an admission that only Baptists would be hired.

[Eric J in MN]

16. You're right.

It's unclear what the county's defense will be.

It's unlikely that the county will say, "Our policy is to only hire Baptists."

[TheOther95Percent]

50. The Court Can Look at the Current Employee Make-up

The argument can be made that the effect of asking applicants their political views skewed towards hiring only persons belonging to certain religious sects.

[Eric J in MN]

61. Yes. The plaintiffs have a great case.

I'm just saying that we don't the defense strategy from the article.

Maybe the defense will claim that there were no interview questions unrelated to the job, and that the plaintiffs are lying.

[NCjack]

15. The county commissioners are persecuting all Christians who are not Baptists. Hey, wait,

in Williamson County Texas only Baptists are Christians, and the county commissioners are dubious about the "Baptists" not in the Southern Baptist Convention. Those "Baptists" could be atheists, as are all the other so-called non-Baptist Christians (fakers). Jesus is so lucky to have the county commissioners in his pocket.

[SoapBox]

17. Because MY god is better than your god and much better than their god...

Blah, blah, blah.

[B Calm]

22. Now Christians are persecuting Christians. Poor Methodists. .

[TexasTowelie]

58. I doubt that.

I went to the university that has been in Williamson County since the 1870s and it is Methodist affiliated.

[louis-t]

29. But they're "uniters"

not dividers.

[SwankyXomb]

30. There's an old saying in my family that comes from my great-grandfather

"There's crazy, and then there's Baptist crazy." He was a Methodist minister in Missouri.

[classof56]

43. Good one!

My Calvinist grandpappy used to talk about "Ten-in-a-Bed Baptists" by which he meant, so narrow they could sleep ten in a bed. Always gives me a chuckle when it comes to mind. However, don't get me started on Calvinists!

[underpants]

52. Joke: there was a mixed marriage

One was Baptist, the other Methodist. Both families wanted their preacher to do the ceremony.

At the reception the two preacher are standing beside each other receiving congratulations. The waiter approaches. "What can I get you all to drink? We have beer, wine, cocktails"

Baptist preacher "ALCOHOL?!? Why I'd just as soon commit adultery!"
Methodist preacher "I didn't know we had that option"

[underpants]

53. :-)

What's the difference between a Baptist and a Methodist? The Methodist will tell you "howdy" when he sees you in the liquor store.

[hamsterjill]

34. I was told "everyone here loves the Lord" in an interview several years back in Texas.

I didn't make a response, and was, frankly, flabbergasted that such a comment had been made. I'm a Christian, myself, but that's a private matter, and I don't consider it anyone else's business whether I am or I am not.

This was for an assistant position to an in-house counsel for a business management company. I got the job and spent four MISERABLE years at that place before finding a different job. I was a single mom and needed the job badly.

During those four years, I was the only employee who didn't attend the company "prayer" meetings, and the only employee who didn't openly speak about religion. I refused to be intimidated by them and simply did my work and didn't engage in their rhetoric.

I was elated when I was actually able to walk out of that place for the last time. Without a doubt and without exception, in all of my 50-plus years, these were the biggest bunch of hypocrites I've ever encountered, and I've encountered some doozies!!! These people would stab someone in the back in business faster than anyone I've ever known, and then gather for prayer so that they could justify how they screwed someone over.

They are not MY kind of Christianity.

[smirkymonkey]

45. I read something years ago about a study, I think it was done by Harvard, and the basic

outcome was that the people who were the most externally religious (talked about it all the time, made showy displays about how religious they were, etc.) actually had the least integrity when it came to following the tenets of their religion, whereas the religious people who were the most privately and quietly religious were actually the most devoted and faithful.

I wish I could find the actual study, but it kind of confirms what I have always suspected.

[Omaha Steve]

35. What if you lose the faith after your probation is over?

I decided to worship trees instead.

[Liberal_in_LA]

37. jaw dropping

[catrose]

54. used to live there

surprised only that they're that open about it.

A friend of a friend who lived in Salt Lake City was asked in an interiew if she knew So and So, who lived in the same neighborhood that she did, according to the interviewer. The applicant said no, the interview went on, and she didn't get the job. She was telling her friends about the weird interview question, and they said, "So and So is the Mormon bishop (or some such leader) of that neighborhood. If you were Mormon, you would have known that." Being Jewish and seeing the deck stacked against her, she moved to California.

[TexasTowelie]

60. When were you there?

I was a college student from 1983-1987 and came to town frequently throughout the rest of the 80s and 90s.

[catrose]

62. Late 90s eom

[Warren DeMontague]

56. DERPLY HERLD RELERGERS BERLERFSSS

There are people on DU who will fall all the fuck over themselves to make sure no one ever has to deal with anything that goes against their DERPLY HERLD RELERGERS BERLERFS.

Why should this be any different? Call the EEOC, some nasties are forcing baptists to hire non-baptists in violation of their DERPLY HERLD RELERGERS BERLERRRRFS