I'm five feet tall and am generally pretty useless at defending myself

[La Lioness Priyanka]

and you know what i worry about when using public bathrooms?

--asshole women who decide they are genderpolicing bathrooms when using a public restroom with my wife, because she does not fit their idea of what a woman should look like.


you know what i dont worry about?

-- transwomen. transpeople.

So yeah, fuck you asshole women who think gender policing a bathroom is your job, because of who you think counts as a woman and does not count as a woman. FUCK YOU.

[cwydro]

1. I know exactly what you mean because this happens to my sister too.

She doesn't look particularly "feminine" or "woman like" for lack of a better term, at least according to the old biddies who seem to enjoy staring at someone who does not fit their idea of a woman.

To my eyes, she looks nothing like a man, but she has been challenged by women in public restrooms before. It enrages her.

No idea why people even pay attention to others in the restroom; I know I don't.

[longship]

2. "No idea why people even pay attention to others in the restroom"

You have that right! For sure.

[randys1]

29. I cant pee whether i am standing next to a man or Woman LOL

shy bladder like you cant imagine.

[lunatica]

59. Women don't pee standing or at urinals

We keep all our bathroom business within the stalls. then we flush the toilet and wash our hands and leave.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. It's ridiculous. When I'm in a public bathroom

I assume everybody else is there for the same reason I am. If somebody doesn't "look like a woman" according to some measure, I still don't care because I assume that person is also just there to pee. Why some people get their panties in a wad over who's in the bathroom is beyond me.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

5. all this concern is just transphobia and sometimes homophobia

appearing in a more acceptable form

[Bubzer]

14. Or perhaps pretending to be in a more acceptable form. +1

[retrowire]

13. because they're afraid it's actually

a deviant man who's cross dressing for the sheer purpose of entering their most vulnerable space!!!

everyone's out to get them!!! fear fear fear!!!

ugh, society am I right?

[Bubzer]

15. +1 ... Its identity politics at its worst. Fear of the other.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. Since women's rest rooms have stalls for privacy, what's the problem?

Nobody is going to see anybody anyhow. Nobody is going to be able to watch you pee, and your little daughter won't see some guy's dick. It's all just stupid.

[retrowire]

33. totally agree. n/t

[murielm99]

32. If someone is really afraid of

that other person in the bathroom, they have the option of leaving and finding another bathroom.

If I was alone and felt threatened by an individual, or a group of people, I would leave, and possibly find a security person. I would be more afraid of having my purse or wallet snatched than of a trans person.

It is fine for us to keep our wits about us when we are shopping, traveling, etc. But that is something else altogether.

[Ms. Toad]

4. Thank you for the personal witness to the real problem,

I've been trying to make this point, but it has been falling on deaf ears. Although I know many women who have experienced gender policing, their stories are not mine to tell.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. this bathroom policing is just reinforcing gendernorms

there is no real concern here for safety

[yardwork]

64. I believe that is correct. This concern trolling is just an excuse to bully.

[PeaceNikki]

7. I stand with you and your wife. Anyone who thinks it acceptable to require "papers" for entering a

restroom is a fucking asshole.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. ..

[blackspade]

41. +1000

[ismnotwasm]

9. K&R

[Zorra]

10. Bravo!

[Humanist_Activist]

11. I really hate the bullshit justifications like, "what if your daughter is in the bathroom"...

or even better, "my daughter doesn't need to see a penis" in relation to locker rooms.

Its all bullshit.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. i would leave my daughter in the care of many transpeople i know, before i left her in the care of

fucking gender-policing bigots.

[Human101948]

16. Especially when they're fucking...

I don't want my daughter to see that!

[Bubzer]

17. +1 billion

[Tree-Hugger]

34. Same

I am a woman. I have a daughter. I am not threatened by trans women in the same restroom as us.

[Humanist_Activist]

36. The thing is that so called "stranger danger" while real is severely overblown as well...

it makes for great drama on TV, but you are statistically more likely to be molested by a family member or friend than a stranger, raped by people you know rather than people you don't know.

Its a sad reality, but being afraid of a transgender stranger in the bathroom isn't rational.

[Tree-Hugger]

40. Agreed. nt

[Quasimodem]

48. Stranger danger

Is merely a call to be vigilant.

It is not a license to act proactively like a bitch.

[Humanist_Activist]

49. Yes, the common sense things like don't take rides with people you don't know.

Be aware of your surroundings, etc.

But some people take these to extremes, like everything.

[MuseRider]

18. Well said.

I totally agree.

[Facility Inspector]

20. As a male

I generally urinate wherever I want to.

These places vary according to my level of intoxication.

If the men's room is booked or very stanky, I have no problem using the womens' toilet.

[Demeter]

35. On Wed Sep 9, 2015, 10:20 AM an alert was sent on the following post

As a male
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7153720

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

::sigh:: The term "trolling" comes irresistably to mind. Please forward this one on to the MIRT also.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Sep 9, 2015, 10:34 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I hear what you are saying alerter. I view the chance that this person is a troll at around 60% but the post they made doesn't conclusively say troll to me, just someone who is trying way too hard to be funny, and not succeeding. It's not hideworthy imho. But again, I'm not saying the person isn't a troll, just that this post doesn't make it clear.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not a TOS violation. A good example of male privilege though...
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: More than I cared to know, but not against the TOS, I believe.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The Alerter has got to be either kidding, or humor-impaired, or simply intolerant. This isn't trolling, it's a personal statement about a personal practice, and whether it's dead serious or tongue in cheek, it in no way even comes close to violating the TOS.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: "Trolling" this may be. IF that's the case, they've scored in provoking an alert to their post. If it's a candid moment of revealing their societal boorishness - it only makes them look dumb(er). They've not defamed nor demeaned anyone but themselves. They didn't mention their genitals or use any of George Carlin's verboten verbiage. Just a village idiot looking for love by acting outlandish.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Humanist_Activist]

38. Hey its "Transgender are delusional" poster, ready to post more transphobic bullshit again?

I'm assuming you are Juror #6.

[Eleanors38]

89. #3 LOL!

[LanternWaste]

52. Possibly you should qualify 'male' with the specific addition of 'a dramatic lack of discipline...'

Possibly you should qualify 'male' with the specific addition of 'a dramatic lack of discipline...' to entertain better accuracy.

[Facility Inspector]

58. When you gotta go

you gotta go.

Or are you discriminating against my bladder?

[RiffRandell]

78. Hey, you're lucky you got more in the text.

Hey, you're lucky you got more in the text.

[Staph]

21. You know what I worry about when using public bathrooms?

Those unthinking idjits who don't flush, don't wash hands, drop toilet paper and towels on the floor, and generally treat the restroom like their own personal trash dump.

I need to be a bit careful of my immune system, due to cancer treatment a couple of years ago. I have friends and family with truly compromised immune systems who can potentially have serious health issues due to the morass of germs that is the average toilet.

But transwomen or transmen in the restroom? As long as they flush, wash and generally tidy up, it's no problem for me!

[Dont call me Shirley]

65. ME TOO about restroom hygiene! Transpeople in the restroom no big deal, let them be who they are.

[Solly Mack]

22. My biggest worry is a lack of toilet paper.

I also want the restroom to be clean.

It doesn't enter my mind to do a crotch check or even wonder about other people's crotches.

I'm there for one reason and it isn't to play bathroom monitor. I don't even like making small talk in the john. I'm there to do my business and get out. It's not a social event, and it's for damn sure not the place to stick your nose into other people's undies.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. yeah. i do care about cleanliness. how women cannot pee into a giant hole without peeing all over

the seat never ceases to amaze me

[Solly Mack]

39. Probably because they hover over the toilet seat and spray urine everywhere.

Still, it is a big bowl and squatting over it doesn't change that.

I'm short, if I squat I may as well be sitting. I sit, usually.

Oh, and while we are on this subject (nasty johns and bad bathroom habits) - When you place toilet paper all over the seat - REMOVE it after you've finished.

A lot of people don't do that and that's just yucky.

Don't just toss it on the floor either. If you're afraid to touch where your ass has been, then the toilet seat isn't the problem, is it?

Far more safety and health concerns about public restrooms without looking for something to worry about.

I'm sorry people harass your wife with their prejudices and biases. It's like a slap in the face when someone "eyes" you in that manner. And you can always tell what a bigot is thinking. It's not just insulting, it's invalidating your very existence.

[Eleanors38]

90. I see your point; passionate kisses and everything.

[Solly Mack]

91. ?

[Jamastiene]

43. I think a lot of women squat over the toilet without sitting on it.

And apparently they cannot keep their balance?

Ellen Degeneres explained it best:

?t=1m46s

[irisblue]

50. knee & hip replacement can make balance harder to keep.

[sarge43]

23. War story alert

Back in the Neolithic the USAF's uniform reg was AFM 35-10 - how, when, why, where, when to wear the Blue. In said manual was the statement that men were to maintain a clean, neat military appearance. Women - clean, neat, feminine appearance.

For the record there wasn't/isn't a mumbling word in either the UCMJ or the enlistment contract differentiating between male and female. Hubby and I inked exactly the same DD Form 4.

I asked a SJA, AF lawyer, what was the legal definition of feminine. He thought for a couple of beats and said, "Beat the hell outta me." "So, said I, a woman could be nailed with an Article 15 for not looking "feminine" - whatever that may be?" "I suppose so, but it would be an interesting case." "Great. Thank you, sir."

Gender policing - it sucks.

[arcane1]

24. Preach it!

[TygrBright]

26. Thank you. Wish I could rec multiple times.

Given the problems with "potty parity" in crowded venues, I have been known to use whichever bathroom has no line or an unused stall, regardless.

Who the hell cares about other peoples' micturition and/or defecation in properly designated receptacles?

It's long, long, LONG past time to decide who should be using which loo based on how they look to other people.

wearily,
Bright

[KamaAina]

27. Protip: A fingerpunch to the trachea will disable an NFL lineman

We don't have any muscle in front of the windpipe, you see.

edit: I learned this in Hawai'i, where my workplace brought in a hapkido (Korean martial arts) instructor one afternoon.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. lol. thanks kamaaina.

[KamaAina]

30. Now you don't have to worry about all those horrible trans people fondling you.

[mythology]

42. Likewise an eye gouge

Or a swift kick to the mid-testicle region are also both rather effective.

[Logical]

57. You assume he will not try to avoid it. Nt

[Jamastiene]

31. K&R

Same here. Well said.

[Tree-Hugger]

37. I worry about sprinkled seats

My biggest concern is finding a clean toilet without pee all over it, or a giant poo or bloody tampon floating in it.

My other biggest concern is whether my little daughter will unlatch the door while I am mid hover.

It never occured to me to check the validity of other women in the restroom.

[jtuck004]

44. Do they have little badges? These are just other people, yes? Pepper spray? n/t

[City Lights]

45. Woot! Well said, La Lioness Priyanka!

[tymorial]

46. So awesome.

Check this out. Last month I took my sister, my sister in law and my two nieces out to dinner for their anniversary. My niece had to use the bathroom so my sister took her. They passed another woman on the way in (who said nothing to her). My sister comes back to the table and we are getting ready to order when the manager comes over and asks to speak with my sister. The woman my sister passed complained stating that men should not be using the woman's room; that she should have taken her to the men's room. The manager apparently agreed because she said the same thing or suggested that the "woman at the table (my sister in law) should have taken her to the bathroom." My sister told the manger that she was in fact a woman and that my niece was her daughter. The manager apparently didn't believe her so my sister came back and told us that we were leaving and to take the kids outside. We had only ordered drinks but the manager went out of the way to tell us that we had to pay for the drinks before we left... The drinks were 3 waters and 2 diet cokes. My sister in law lost it. As I got the kids outside, my sister in law took out 20 bucks, threw it on the table and told the manager that she had a lot of nerve and that not only is my sister a woman, she spent 8 hours in labor trying to deliver their daughter THROUGH HER VAGINA. I was already outside so I didn't hear her say that... I so wish that I had. I told my sister she could really make a problem for the restaurant if she wanted but she wanted to just forget it.

you hear about stories like this in the press from time to time but consider how much more often it happens that we don't hear because people like my sis are thinking about the other people who work there who depend on that salary and shouldn't be penalized because of bigoted assholes like the manager and shit head patrons

[GoneOffShore]

54. Don't know how the woman who complained would deal with the toilets in Europe.

Just came back from France and in one mid level restaurant we were in, the urinals were right next to the door to the only sit down unisex toilet. And there was no barrier between that door and the urinals. Probably would have walked in and walked right out, completely outraged.

[tymorial]

61. Ahh France.

Before my current job, I used to travel to France about once a month to meet with clients. Most of my work was in Paris but I had a couple of clients n Brittany and Normandy. St Malo is my absolute favorite place on earth. When I retire, that is where I'm going. God I miss it there.

You're right, she would have had a problem with the unisex facilities. It is the expectation of complete and total accommodation that is the problem and that is what causes most of the "rudeness" that people experience when they travel to other countries. I would see American tourists behaving like they were owed something for no other reason than they were tourists from America. So often I hear how rude the French are. Sure, I experienced this but it was so rare as to be statistically non existent. I'm sure the fact that I speak French fluently was a mitigating factor but I have met enough people who work in the hospitality industry there that a simple do you speak English would go a long way. Saying I am sorry before engaging in English if you do not know any French at all. How hard is it to look up the culture and custom of the country you will be visiting? Ugh, it infuriates me!

Anyway, Where did you go in France? Was it for business or pleasure? I love that country and its people so very much. I so want to go back now!

[GoneOffShore]

86. We spent a month in France

The first 15 days were in Bordeaux, in Pessac, 30 minutes by bus to the center and 45 minutes by clean, quiet, air conditioned tram.
We did a home exchange which worked out really well.
Explored the city of Bordeaux, which is gorgeous and pedestrian friendly. Even got lost on the buses and went into the less touristy parts.
We also sampled the restaurants and the wine.
Went down to Cap Ferret and saw the Pilat Dune - largest in Europe - ate some good fish and had some lovely walks.
After the home exchange ended we drove down to St Jean-de-Luz near Biarritz in Pays-Basque, then over to Toulouse.
Finished the month staying with friends in Aix-en-Provence.

All in all a delightful time.

[tblue37]

76. If I had been your sister, I would have marched the manager into the women's restroom

and dropped my drawers right there uin front of her. Then I would have insisted she go with me to the complaining woman and apologze in front of her--or face a lawsuit and a complaint to her boss. IOW, I would have insisted on embarrassing BOTH of them, and on making sure they were both aware that their nosiness had created an unnecessary situation.

I bet neither one would try that again!

[MisterP]

47. look, by 2017 these Tumblrinas will be saying that gay guys are traitors to queerdom

because they sleep with--wait for it--MEN! then the whole overprecious fact-resistant misery-poker crab-bucket scorched-earth vocally-anti-sex guilt-humping "infiltrator"-hunting clown car will stove in on itself

heck, if you told me about a group that thought people of different races are best off not really talking to one another, that hetero sex is a dirty dangerous business best gotten over with quickly, that gays are inauthentic, that transsexuals are "infiltrators," and that men shouldn't sit next to children because they can snap at any moment and start molesting, I'd have immediately said "the Duggars, right?"

and they're not some harmless outliers: by hegemonizing many courts and agencies' thinking and sexual, refugee, and foreign policy in the Anglo world, these fucklenuts have already trapped a lot of Caribbean/Central American gays and/or trans in a region of horrific levels of rape and murder: they're everything Dylann Roof DREAMS of being; they're the Aunts from "The Handmaid's Tale" (literally)

[nomorenomore08]

66. "Fundamentalists" are all basically the same, whatever their ideology. Irrationality is the key. n/t

[MisterP]

69. like how the New Atheists use Jack Chick's sources and agree with him on what "true Christianity" is

[Tree-Hugger]

77. Great point nt

[uppityperson]

51. k&r, well said.

[notadmblnd]

53. I always wondered who the women were who felt the need to display their used feminin hygene products

and other bodily excretions about in public bathroom stalls. The gender police.

[Aristus]

55. Your wife is a lovely woman, just like you.

To hell with anyone who thinks she doesn't 'conform' to their preconceived notions...

[littlebit]

56. Amen

I have had that happen to me all over the country. Just because I am tall, have short hair, and dress like a truck driver.

There is nothing more fun than walking into a restroom and somebody yelling go get the manager there is a man in here. Or my favorite is when I am asked if I am a woman. Or when walking out as someone is walking in and they stop and look at the sign to make sure they are going in the right place.

[catchnrelease]

73. I've been there

I'm retired now but back when I was working we had to wear uniforms, which made us look like the old style service station attendants. Brown pants, tan button up shirt with the patch over the pocket, clunky work shoes etc. This was something like 30ish years ago. I am also tall, and was in good physical shape and had short hair. Definitely not 'feminine' looking when at work.

One day a co-worker and I went to a restaurant for lunch and I went into the restroom. While I was washing my hands, an older woman came out of the stall and gave me a look like I was the devil incarnate! She left and when I went out I could see her still watching me with this furious look on her face. It actually took me awhile to figure out what her problem was. It finally dawned on me that she probably thought I was a guy. (Mind you I have like a double D bust, so that might have given her a clue! But I guess she just couldn't get past the stereotype 'look' of what I was wearing etc.) She didn't call the manager but I bet she came close.

[tblue37]

81. OR she might have been a bigot who assumed you were a lesbian because of the

style of your uniform and hated you reflexively because that's what bigots do, and making assumptions based on such stereotypes is also what bigots do.

[Warren Stupidity]

60. My daughter is transgender and I worry

every time she has to travel that she will have some horrible or physically threatening experience just having to pee. It is fucking ridiculous. It is infuriating. It is very personal to me and the callous bigotry on display here is just unacceptable.

[nomorenomore08]

67. +100

I know it's not my place to do so, but I still feel like apologizing for the rampant stupidity (if not malice) seen even among DU'ers. It's really appalling.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

70. Agreed. I understand the feeling too

[Spitfire of ATJ]

62. They're afraid they'll get penis cooties off the toilet seat?

[yardwork]

63. I agree. Fuck them. /nt

[awoke_in_2003]

68. I don't care who is in the bathroom...

as long as they don't want to talk. I hate people who want to hold a conversation in the bathroom.

[tammywammy]

71. You know what I worry about?

Pee on the seat because someone squats instead of sitting and pisses on the seat and didn't clean up after themselves. Or the unflushed tampon.

Or if at work, the co-worker that wants to talk while I'm peeing.

[tblue37]

72. I remember when you shared your wedding pictures, and I remember thinking how lovely

BOTH of you looked. I wish I could locate your wedding post again. Posts like that always make me feel so happy.

[Lars39]

74. Me, too, tblue37!

They were wonderful photos.

[Lars39]

75. I'm so sorry both of you were treated that way.

I don't understand why some people try to force conformity on others.

[herding cats]

79. K&R!

[NewJeffCT]

80. Physically, you may be small

but, I think you tower over most mentally.

I'm sorry you & Lisa have had to go through this.

[struggle4progress]

82. You can always cultivate the "though she be but little, she is fierce!" image

It's a time-tested classic

[La Lioness Priyanka]

87. i am fierce but not in a physically aggressive way

[niyad]

83. I don't pay attention to who is in the stall next to me. nor does it freak me out to use the

unisex bathroom in our library, etc., etc. some people really need a life (of their own, preferably)

[barbtries]

84. amazing how much time

haters have to waste. just think if they put it to the good.

[Rex]

85. I have to tell you this, what gender a person is in a public bathroom is close to last

on the Big List of things I worry about! People that stand around and judge others in public, are pathetic and creepy.

[Eleanors38]

88. I was in a nice, modern institutiinal bathroom at IRS today...

...and unlike the tax code, one size fits all.

Who'd thunk it? Beer bar Texas and the IRS on the same pot... Er, page.