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snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 05:25 PM Sep 2015

Pretty odd that on 9/11 a FREAK accident sends a BIN LADEN crane crashing through the holiest mosque

in the world, in the holiest Islamic site in the world, during a FREAK electrical storm. That's right the effing crane is owned by the Bin Laden's.

Hmmm. Seems like, whatever god is the real god, isn't too happy with the fact ISIS asshats and those who fund them are committing atrocities in it's name. Just sayin.










http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3231117/At-62-people-dead-crane-collapses-Grand-Mosque-Mecca.html

116 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Pretty odd that on 9/11 a FREAK accident sends a BIN LADEN crane crashing through the holiest mosque (Original Post) snagglepuss Sep 2015 OP
With the number of "holiest" sites/mosques/etc GummyBearz Sep 2015 #1
I have just added the fact that the crane is owned by the Bin Ladens. That is effing wierd. snagglepuss Sep 2015 #3
That is a pretty ironic tidbit GummyBearz Sep 2015 #7
Maybe WE did it......timing....location, etc. dixiegrrrrl Sep 2015 #17
No one other than ISIS would be stupid enough to destroy a holy site. snagglepuss Sep 2015 #18
The Taliban has destroyed holy sites tabasco Sep 2015 #21
Very true. my bad. snagglepuss Sep 2015 #22
Word is...Saudi Arabia is gonna invade Iraq over this. dixiegrrrrl Sep 2015 #23
er..... snagglepuss Sep 2015 #24
We can now control weather? GummyBearz Sep 2015 #39
They own the biggest and best connected construction company in SA. LeftyMom Sep 2015 #34
Thank you for pointing that out. Not odd at all. uppityperson Sep 2015 #66
It would be weirder if it weren't owned by Bin Laden Retrograde Sep 2015 #70
It's really not though. Just seems odd to Americans. Xithras Sep 2015 #112
Practically every day over 100 people are killed next to the holiest site in Islam jfern Sep 2015 #35
Watch it, now, that's just a little Saudi justice LuvNewcastle Sep 2015 #48
That mosque IS the holiest--it's where the ka'aba is. It is where everyone goes for the hajj. MADem Sep 2015 #79
I'm sure there will be plenty of conspiracy nuts over there to make the connection Warpy Sep 2015 #2
If everything is the will of Allah, this too is Allah's will and if that is the snagglepuss Sep 2015 #10
Sometimes a thunderstorm is only a thunderstorm Warpy Sep 2015 #13
The destruction Sodom and Gormorrah was unleashed on random people. snagglepuss Sep 2015 #14
Sodom and Gomorrah were not inflicted on random people stevenleser Sep 2015 #29
No innocent children could be found? Really? snagglepuss Sep 2015 #30
Nope, It was Abraham, passages were Genesis 18:21-33 and the number started stevenleser Sep 2015 #31
Amazing so many people still believe these idiotic old stories are "true." Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #68
Same story, bigger scale. Gods a genocidal maniac that would make Dick Cheney blush. AtheistCrusader Sep 2015 #74
your faith must be strong to swallow that load of horseshit. Warren Stupidity Sep 2015 #83
Oh I don't believe it. But the question was about what was said in the bible about stevenleser Sep 2015 #85
No innocent children could be found? What about the Flood? AlbertCat Sep 2015 #108
When did random come to equal good? kdmorris Sep 2015 #71
Why did Lot get to live when he let his teenage virgin daughters be gang-raped? AlbertCat Sep 2015 #110
Oh, yeah, there's that kdmorris Sep 2015 #111
No children in that city? No fetuses, the religious are always going on about? AtheistCrusader Sep 2015 #73
Of course there had to be children and fetusus. Curmudgeoness Sep 2015 #103
Possibly why sensible people realize that story, and the book it is written in... truebrit71 Sep 2015 #75
Absolutely. Nt stevenleser Sep 2015 #84
God cannot be involved in a conspiracy, unless rusty fender Sep 2015 #63
Let's ask Pat Robertson if God did this because Saudi Arabia prohibits gay marriage. (n/t) Jim Lane Sep 2015 #25
You are the winner :) nt phylny Sep 2015 #38
The cosmos has a sharp sense of irony. nt hifiguy Sep 2015 #4
Is that Mecca’s al-Haram mosque? Rex Sep 2015 #5
Is that another name for the Grand Mosque? snagglepuss Sep 2015 #6
I don't know, that info about Bin Laden makes it even more like the Twilight Zone. Rex Sep 2015 #8
62 dead, at least 30 injured in crane collapse at Grand Mosque in Mecca, says Saudi Civil Defense - dixiegrrrrl Sep 2015 #15
Okay found it and it was what I thought it was, the holiest of holy sites in Iran. Rex Sep 2015 #16
well at the least DustyJoe Sep 2015 #42
It houses a meotorite, correct? Juicy_Bellows Sep 2015 #44
In Islam, it marks the center of the world. MADem Sep 2015 #81
Thank you, and from there I got a little bit more about the Black Stone: Juicy_Bellows Sep 2015 #93
It could not have been terribly heavy. A crew of city leaders lifted it with a cloak MADem Sep 2015 #97
Very cool, thanks for sharing. nt. Juicy_Bellows Sep 2015 #98
'Iran'? Where on earth did that come from? It's in Saudi Arabia. (nt) muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #46
It's in Saudi Arabia. n/t tammywammy Sep 2015 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author A HERETIC I AM Sep 2015 #72
It's not IN IRAN. It is Mecca, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. MADem Sep 2015 #80
Oops meant SA not Iran. Rex Sep 2015 #86
The Persians (most of whom are a minority sect in Islam) have long wanted to be the MADem Sep 2015 #88
Is pretty twillight zoneish...a crane on 9/11 owned by the Bin Ladens Rex Sep 2015 #89
To us, yes, of course--to them, they will say no. Except maybe the date... MADem Sep 2015 #92
Are you saying god killed a bunch of people because others do bad things? uppityperson Sep 2015 #9
Not my argument but definitely the POV of many who worship powerful dieties snagglepuss Sep 2015 #12
Then what does this mean? uppityperson Sep 2015 #67
So far it has not been because of "The Gay" so that is good YabaDabaNoDinoNo Sep 2015 #57
I bet it was a guy with a boxcutter NightWatcher Sep 2015 #11
They'll find his passport on the street around there. LuvNewcastle Sep 2015 #49
Even I, Queen of the Tin-Foil Hats, know this was a coincidence! WinkyDink Sep 2015 #19
There is coincidence and then there is meaningful coincidence that Carl Jung snagglepuss Sep 2015 #20
hmmmm..... Very interesting. I mean, I knew about "synchronicity," but not the Jungian origin. WinkyDink Sep 2015 #78
How does Karma translate in to Arabic? Historic NY Sep 2015 #26
Hate for any tragedy to happen Tsiyu Sep 2015 #27
Your OP was alerted, results 7-0 to keep stevenleser Sep 2015 #28
disgusting. Matariki Sep 2015 #33
Wow I never anticipated anyone alerting as I focused on the irony snagglepuss Sep 2015 #36
Prejudices much? Matariki Sep 2015 #32
Exaggerate much? Where have I drawn that equivalency? snagglepuss Sep 2015 #37
If I misunderstood your post I'm sorry Matariki Sep 2015 #41
You are "just sayin'" that a god killed a group of random Muslims for what ISIS did muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #45
Spare me. The obscene notion of divine retribution is built into the snagglepuss Sep 2015 #50
Oh, so you made up someone deciding this was divine retribution for ISIS, and then channeled them muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #51
Your not making any sense. The first paragraph is strictly factual snagglepuss Sep 2015 #52
So you've just done it again - lumping these victims in with ISIS muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #53
You're making things up. I've not said a word about the victims. snagglepuss Sep 2015 #55
You're ignoring the victims, and concentrating on the damage to the mosque? muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #59
If someone posts an analysis of why this happened and whether snagglepuss Sep 2015 #60
"most important is the tragic loss of lives"; you said nothing about victims, were tongue-in-cheek muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #61
Your looking for offense where there is none. In an OP about the odd coincidences of this event snagglepuss Sep 2015 #82
You were tongue-in-cheek about an event that killed over 100 people muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #90
I find the notion of divine retribution offensive, a notion worthy of ridicule. snagglepuss Sep 2015 #94
This wasn't about "divine retribution" - you made that up muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #96
Please explain what this part of your OP means. uppityperson Sep 2015 #65
I've read the OP several times now, I don't see how you get what you are claiming is there from stevenleser Sep 2015 #40
Okay Matariki Sep 2015 #43
"whatever god is the real god" .....'scuse me, her name is Eris. Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #47
Eris is mad because no one invited her to the party. n/t ryan_cats Sep 2015 #54
So they say god is omnipotent so the god being knew he was going to kill a bunch of believers with a YabaDabaNoDinoNo Sep 2015 #56
Interesting! Synchronicity BlancheSplanchnik Sep 2015 #62
It's not ODD at all. The probability of that accident happening was just as great on any other day cleanhippie Sep 2015 #64
Cheney's roof being hit by falling debris from a plane during a freak electrical storm on the snagglepuss Sep 2015 #76
If you say so... cleanhippie Sep 2015 #106
Pretty odd that at Easter time two churches burned down! Wow! Amazing, huh?! Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #69
There is no equivalency in your comment. Not even close. MADem Sep 2015 #87
My point was it's ridiculous to attribute supernatural implications to accidents. Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #91
I didn't catch that point from your comment at all. You were comparing a gnat to an elephant. MADem Sep 2015 #95
My comment was aimed at the OP's implication that a magical being hurts/kills people based on Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #99
Well, your comment didn't come off that way. MADem Sep 2015 #100
Honestly I think it's a bit odd you had so much trouble grasping the point. Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #101
I could much more easily say "Honestly, I think it's a bit odd you had so much trouble MAKING the MADem Sep 2015 #102
You are reallly fixated on how I made my point. Out of all the posts happening on The DU, Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #104
Not at all! I just don't think you made it, initially anyway... MADem Sep 2015 #107
It's just an accident deathrind Sep 2015 #77
This is a BIG stretch nt LiberalElite Sep 2015 #105
Pretty odd AlbertCat Sep 2015 #109
Sorry, but this sounds like Pat Robertson and his ilk blaming gays, liberals, and abortions tblue37 Sep 2015 #113
Odd? Act_of_Reparation Sep 2015 #114
Lots of Whoosh(!) In This Thread ProfessorGAC Sep 2015 #115
It's also pretty odd that we resort to post hoc ergo prompter hoc arguments for lack of anything bet LanternWaste Sep 2015 #116

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
17. Maybe WE did it......timing....location, etc.
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 06:36 PM
Sep 2015

Be interesting to see what the folks in Mecca are saying.

amazing co-incidence if not.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
18. No one other than ISIS would be stupid enough to destroy a holy site.
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 06:45 PM
Sep 2015

Even suggesting that is beyond the pale given that ISIS wouldn't need much encouragement to blow up St Peters or Notre Dame or any other cultural gem in retaliation.

 

GummyBearz

(2,931 posts)
39. We can now control weather?
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 09:51 PM
Sep 2015

We can make lightning strike an object at will? Damn... we are gods, all must bow before us

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
34. They own the biggest and best connected construction company in SA.
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 09:33 PM
Sep 2015

Good luck finding a crane owned by anybody else in a prominent site in the area.

Retrograde

(10,133 posts)
70. It would be weirder if it weren't owned by Bin Laden
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 01:31 PM
Sep 2015

the original Bin Laden - father of Osama and many, many more - got his start as a construction contractor and went on to build one of the largest construction companies in the Middle East if not the world. That's where the family money comes from. Mr. Retrograde, who spent more time than he cared to in Saudi Arabia, says he saw Bin Laden equipment everywhere.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
112. It's really not though. Just seems odd to Americans.
Sun Sep 13, 2015, 04:31 PM
Sep 2015

The Binladen Group is the second largest construction company ON THE PLANET (only Vinci in France is bigger), and the largest in Saudi Arabia. They're also the primary construction company used by the Saudi government because Mohammed bin Laden (Osama's dad) was personal friends with Aziz al Saud (the founder of Saudi Arabia) and the Binladen Group played that friendship into a deal that gives them exclusive control of all construction in and around Mecca.

If there's a major construction accident in Saudi Arabia, there is a nearly 100% chance that the Bin Laden family is connected to it in some way.

LuvNewcastle

(16,844 posts)
48. Watch it, now, that's just a little Saudi justice
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 06:23 AM
Sep 2015

in action. A lot of them are just queers who get caught or admit to being queer.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
79. That mosque IS the holiest--it's where the ka'aba is. It is where everyone goes for the hajj.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 02:37 PM
Sep 2015

It is the seat of the faith for ALL sects--not just sunni.

And the Bin Ladins do all the construction for the KSA royal family. Usama's father started the company--the rogue son never had too much to do with it, but he shares the name.

What is odd is the coincidence of the date and the "family name" of the construction company.

Oddly enough, the construction that was already done (the tawaf bridges to accommodate the increased crowds that come for hajj) stopped a lot of the crane from falling on the people below. It broke the fall.

Hajj is soon, in less than two weeks--they are going to have to work like mad to get the place ready--and it's not like they can move the venue; the hajj has to take place in that spot, in that place.

Warpy

(111,249 posts)
2. I'm sure there will be plenty of conspiracy nuts over there to make the connection
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 05:28 PM
Sep 2015

I just hope they aren't allowed to act on it.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
10. If everything is the will of Allah, this too is Allah's will and if that is the
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 05:36 PM
Sep 2015

case how could such a freak event be interpreted other than Allah smoting his worshipers?

Warpy

(111,249 posts)
13. Sometimes a thunderstorm is only a thunderstorm
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 05:40 PM
Sep 2015

and why would any god wait 14 years to unleash it? Or unleash it on random people?

That never stopped conspiracy nuts, of course.

They never seem to realize that this is just sad.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
14. The destruction Sodom and Gormorrah was unleashed on random people.
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 05:44 PM
Sep 2015

The Great Flood drowned random people. Since when has the Abrahamic deity been rational?

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
29. Sodom and Gomorrah were not inflicted on random people
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 08:58 PM
Sep 2015

There is a whole story in the OT about someone, I think it's LOt, negotiating with God if 100 people in those cities were found to be good people, then 50, then 10 and even that many good people couldn't be found, so the cities were destroyed.

so if you believe what is written there, good folks weren't sacrificed, there were no good folks there.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
30. No innocent children could be found? Really?
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 09:14 PM
Sep 2015

What about the Flood? There the angry diety just Noah and kin. No other good people worth saving? No children were saving?

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
31. Nope, It was Abraham, passages were Genesis 18:21-33 and the number started
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 09:18 PM
Sep 2015

out at 50 and got down to 10. Not even 10 righteous people could be found in the whole city of Sodom. http://biblehub.com/genesis/18-23.htm

Now the flood, that's another story.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
68. Amazing so many people still believe these idiotic old stories are "true."
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 01:23 PM
Sep 2015

On the Grand Canyon Facebook page, they highlighted shell fossils found in the area, and of course scads of morons were claiming it was from Noah's flood 4,000 years ago.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
83. your faith must be strong to swallow that load of horseshit.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 02:54 PM
Sep 2015

Most believers would, at this point, wallow into the allegory morass as an explanation for the routine depiction of the angry bloody Yahweh.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
85. Oh I don't believe it. But the question was about what was said in the bible about
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 02:59 PM
Sep 2015

What happened in Sodom and Gomorrah, and I remember the way it was taught to me.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
108. No innocent children could be found? What about the Flood?
Sun Sep 13, 2015, 03:38 PM
Sep 2015

When dealing with mythology, anything goes. You can make it up to suit your message/propaganda.

kdmorris

(5,649 posts)
71. When did random come to equal good?
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 01:48 PM
Sep 2015

Lot sent his daughters out to be raped by a crowd rather than let this angel be taken.

How the fuck does that make him a good person? Why was he randomly saved?

The point was that it was random. Capricious. How many other cities in that day were the same way and didn't get destroyed? Why did Lot get to live when he let his teenage virgin daughters be gang-raped?

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
110. Why did Lot get to live when he let his teenage virgin daughters be gang-raped?
Sun Sep 13, 2015, 03:50 PM
Sep 2015

So they could get him drunk and rape him later?

I'm just guessing tho'.....

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
73. No children in that city? No fetuses, the religious are always going on about?
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 02:11 PM
Sep 2015

Imagine a city with not one 'good' person in it. Im-fucking-possible.

Then again, this god you're referring to judged every man woman and child, plus animals, planet-wide in the flood story, right?

Apparently this god never heard of the axiom; 'if you meet one asshole, he's an asshole, but if everyone you meet seems like an asshole, YOU'RE the asshole.'

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
103. Of course there had to be children and fetusus.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 05:32 PM
Sep 2015

How can you have a city full of evil people and no pregnant women or women who have recently given birth. Isn't being "evil" in these cities having too much sex, which certainly results in pregnancies.

And good point on your referenced axiom.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
75. Possibly why sensible people realize that story, and the book it is written in...
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 02:13 PM
Sep 2015

...should be taken with a large pillar of salt...yes?

 

rusty fender

(3,428 posts)
63. God cannot be involved in a conspiracy, unless
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 12:56 PM
Sep 2015

it is the Christian God, then it is him, his son and the Holy Ghost

But you are right: logic never stopped the conspiracy nuts from flailing away.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
8. I don't know, that info about Bin Laden makes it even more like the Twilight Zone.
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 05:35 PM
Sep 2015

When I google for it, what comes up is Jame Mosque of Yazd. So no clue.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
15. 62 dead, at least 30 injured in crane collapse at Grand Mosque in Mecca, says Saudi Civil Defense -
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 06:05 PM
Sep 2015

according to news.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
16. Okay found it and it was what I thought it was, the holiest of holy sites in Iran.
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 06:07 PM
Sep 2015

Masjid al-Haram

The world is a mixture of strange occurrences and outright irony.

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
44. It houses a meotorite, correct?
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 10:59 PM
Sep 2015

I wish they'd let someone study it - I think they have in the past but our tech is better now. I'd like to know more about it. Or maybe I am off my rocker.

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
93. Thank you, and from there I got a little bit more about the Black Stone:
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 03:36 PM
Sep 2015

The nature of the Black Stone has been much debated. It has been described variously as basalt stone, an agate, a piece of natural glass or — most popularly — a stony meteorite. Paul Partsch, the curator of the Austro-Hungarian imperial collection of minerals, published the first comprehensive history of the Black Stone in 1857 in which he favoured a meteoritic origin for the Stone.[39] Robert Dietz and John McHone proposed in 1974 that the Black Stone was actually an agate, judging from its physical attributes and a report by an Arab geologist that the Stone contained clearly discernible diffusion banding characteristic of agates.[2]

A significant clue to its nature is provided by an account of the Stone's recovery in 951 AD after it had been stolen 21 years earlier; according to a chronicler, the Stone was identified by its ability to float in water. If this account is accurate, it would rule out the Black Stone being an agate, a basalt lava or a stony meteorite, though it would be compatible with it being glass or pumice.[5]

Elsebeth Thomsen of the University of Copenhagen proposed a different hypothesis in 1980. She suggested that the Black Stone may be a glass fragment or impactite from the impact of a fragmented meteorite that fell some 6,000 years ago at Wabar,[40] a site in the Rub' al Khali desert 1,100 km east of Mecca. The craters at Wabar are notable for the presence of blocks of silica glass, fused by the heat of the impact and impregnated with beads of a nickel-iron alloy from the meteorite (most of which was destroyed in the impact). Some of the glass blocks are made of shiny black glass, with a white or yellow interior and gas-filled hollows, which allow them to float on water.[5] Although scientists did not become aware of the Wabar craters until 1932, they were located near a caravan route from Oman and were very likely known to the inhabitants of the desert. The wider area was certainly well-known; in ancient Arabic poetry, Wabar or Ubar (also known as "Iram of the Pillars&quot was the site of a fabulous city that was destroyed by fire from the heavens because of the wickedness of its king. If the estimated age of the crater is accurate, it would have been well within the period of human habitation in Arabia and the impact itself may have been witnessed.[5]A recent (2004) scientific analysis of the Wabar site suggests that the impact event happened much more recently than first thought and might have occurred only within the last 200–300 years.[41]

The meteoritic hypothesis is now viewed by geologists as doubtful. The British Natural History Museum suggests that it may be a pseudometeorite, in other words a terrestrial rock mistakenly attributed to a meteoritic origin.


Still no one seems to know for sure what it's composition is, shame.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
97. It could not have been terribly heavy. A crew of city leaders lifted it with a cloak
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 03:45 PM
Sep 2015

(they all fought about who would get to stick it in the corner), so the story goes, and Muhamad set the stone.

There is a Persian image of Muhamad doing just this (from back when people weren't so squeamish about 'graven images' you see). That's himself at the center:

Response to Rex (Reply #16)

MADem

(135,425 posts)
80. It's not IN IRAN. It is Mecca, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 02:41 PM
Sep 2015

It is the holiest site in Islam, where the ka'aba is sited, where Ibrahim (aka Abraham) ostensibly declared that there is but one God as opposed to assorted Gods.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
88. The Persians (most of whom are a minority sect in Islam) have long wanted to be the
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 03:06 PM
Sep 2015

guardians of the Holy Places, but so long as the House of Saud holds sway in KSA, that is not going to happen.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
89. Is pretty twillight zoneish...a crane on 9/11 owned by the Bin Ladens
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 03:10 PM
Sep 2015

life is stranger than fiction imo.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
92. To us, yes, of course--to them, they will say no. Except maybe the date...
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 03:31 PM
Sep 2015

The Bin Ladins build everything for the House of Saud. They have been in business for decades, and their name is associated with construction in KSA. They don't associate that "bad apple" with the rest of the family. Their claim to fame isn't "that guy" -- it's all of the fancy construction they have done down the years.

They have expanded the Grand Mosque, built the bridges so more people can do tawaf, and they even built an airconditioned tunnel so people can do the run back and forth between Safa and Marwah. All of this makes hajj more efficient--and hajj is a HUGE (say it like Trump!) moneymaker for KSA. HUGE!!! Also, it cements the status of the KSA as the center of Islam, and of the House of Saud as the anointed guardians of the Holy Places. It's a really, really big deal, which is why they over-do, over-decorate, and over-air-condition everything.

The Royal Family like lots of buildings. They overbuild, IMO.

As I said, many in KSA will regard this accident as a martyrdom that saved many more--maybe even thousands--that might have been killed had the accident happened two weeks from now when the place would have been PACKED. I'll bet they're checking and re-checking every fricken crane in the immediate region right about now.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
12. Not my argument but definitely the POV of many who worship powerful dieties
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 05:40 PM
Sep 2015

who it is written have smote innocent people all the time for the sins of others.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
67. Then what does this mean?
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 01:22 PM
Sep 2015
Seems like, whatever god is the real god, isn't too happy with the fact ISIS asshats and those who fund them are committing atrocities in it's name. Just sayin.

god is upset with ISIS and funders so is killing other people.

If that is not what you mean, please clarify, since it is the POV of your OP.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
20. There is coincidence and then there is meaningful coincidence that Carl Jung
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 06:52 PM
Sep 2015

termed as synchronicity.

Tsiyu

(18,186 posts)
27. Hate for any tragedy to happen
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 08:52 PM
Sep 2015

to anyone, but it does give one pause.

I wish we would call them ISIL, even though I forget to do so myself, because Isis was cool, and I have a friend with a doggie with that name ( a gorgeous wolf hybrid) and that pup told me she is very offended to be associated in any way with humans as savage as those evil people.

K&R

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
28. Your OP was alerted, results 7-0 to keep
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 08:53 PM
Sep 2015

I was juror #7, looks like juror #2 and I were temporarily sharing the same brain.

On Fri Sep 11, 2015, 08:45 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Pretty odd that on 9/11 a FREAK accident sends a BIN LADEN crane crashing through the holiest mosque
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027162168

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

I'm sorry but there is absolutely NO REASON WHATSOEVER we should rejoice in the fact that 62 people died today in that crane crash. It just makes DUers look as bad as teabaggers when they get all gleeful about things like Jimmy Carter having brain cancer. Absolutely disgusting!!!

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Sep 11, 2015, 08:50 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see no rejoicing, simply a statement pointing out irony.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: To the alerter: I don't see glee and rejoicing in this post.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think the op is a bit over the top but it isn't offending me enough to hide it. Seems to me whatever responses come along will address it properly. We are supposed to be a discussion site, after all.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Poster did not seem like he was rejoicing, just noting an ironic occurrence.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
36. Wow I never anticipated anyone alerting as I focused on the irony
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 09:38 PM
Sep 2015

and the biblical proportions of the event (temple destroyed, freak lightening zigzagging down from the heavens.)

Very grateful to you and all the other jurors who saw that nothing in the OP that suggests rejoicing over a tragic loss of lives.

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
32. Prejudices much?
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 09:20 PM
Sep 2015

Islam does not == ISIL or 'terrorism' or Bin Laden.

Your post is shameful and isn't worthy of even a right wing fundie discussion board.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
37. Exaggerate much? Where have I drawn that equivalency?
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 09:44 PM
Sep 2015

The event was indisputably ironic. Pointing out ironies is hardly an indication of prejudice.

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
41. If I misunderstood your post I'm sorry
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 10:50 PM
Sep 2015

but I don't get the 'irony'. Can you explain?

107 people died at the mosque. What does that have to do with ISIL?

muriel_volestrangler

(101,308 posts)
45. You are "just sayin'" that a god killed a group of random Muslims for what ISIS did
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 06:01 AM
Sep 2015

No, you're not "pointing out ironies", you're claiming this was divine retribution:

"Seems like, whatever god is the real god, isn't too happy with the fact ISIS asshats and those who fund them are committing atrocities in it's name. Just sayin. "

If the retribution happens to some Muslims in the Grand Mosque in Mecca - who are pretty much drawn from all Muslims in the world - then you are equating Muslims in general with ISIS. And you think your deity does too.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
50. Spare me. The obscene notion of divine retribution is built into the
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 07:12 AM
Sep 2015

Abrahamic faiths and natural disaster is one way that gets accomplished. It is the POV of believers not mine. You impose your rationality on a deity not known for rationality. What is rational about a supposedly merciful deity dishing out divine punishment either in this life or the next?


snip

II. Natural Disasters or Divine Punishment?

Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad
The Review of Religions, January 1994

....according to the Holy Quran, the laws of nature can be deployed, under Divine Will, to reward or punish man.


snip

...How terrible then was My chastisement and My warning! We sent against them a furious wind, for a long period of time of un-ending ill-luck, which tore people away as though they were trunks of uprooted and hollow palm trees.' [54:19-21]

snip

...Thy Lord then let fall on them the whip(*) of punishment. Surely thy Lord is on the watch. [89:14-15]


snip

... Allah (enveloped) it in hunger and fear (which clothed it like) a garment because of what they used to do.' [16:113]




https://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000037.html



muriel_volestrangler

(101,308 posts)
51. Oh, so you made up someone deciding this was divine retribution for ISIS, and then channeled them
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 07:29 AM
Sep 2015

OK, your OP is bullshit. If you found someone saying this was about ISIS, then you should have pointed that out, rather than making it up. It's not 'ironic' when it's only in your head. So far, we see that it's only in your head that the victims are associated with ISIS.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
52. Your not making any sense. The first paragraph is strictly factual
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 09:06 AM
Sep 2015

and the facts are indeed ironic. You may want to familiarize yourself with the term tongue- in- cheek as that is where my tongue was planted and fyi the god I had foremost in mind was the despised Goddess Bel whose magnificent and ancient temple was recently blasted to smithereens.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,308 posts)
53. So you've just done it again - lumping these victims in with ISIS
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 09:14 AM
Sep 2015

You're not doing that 'tongue-in-cheek'. You are saying "these Muslims are all the same to me, and I'll make a joke about a hundred of them dying, because of what ISIS did".

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
55. You're making things up. I've not said a word about the victims.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 09:32 AM
Sep 2015

Furthermore you clearly do not understand the concept of tongue-in-cheek.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,308 posts)
59. You're ignoring the victims, and concentrating on the damage to the mosque?
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 10:44 AM
Sep 2015

Wow, you're getting worse and worse.

I understand the concept of tongue-in-cheek. I just know it's not appropriate when over 100 people died.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
60. If someone posts an analysis of why this happened and whether
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 11:13 AM
Sep 2015

blame is to be placed on the Bin Laden company, the site managers or the operator will you accuse him of ignoring the victims? If someone posts about the corrupt and irrational justice system in SA but doesn't mention the victims will you accuse him of ignoring the victims.


There are difference aspects to every news story, the most important is the tragic loss of lives but there is more to every story. That there is such a strange irony to this story is a fact, not an important fact in the great scheme of things, but nevertheless part of the story.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,308 posts)
61. "most important is the tragic loss of lives"; you said nothing about victims, were tongue-in-cheek
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 11:18 AM
Sep 2015

This is why your OP and posts have been so appalling. You've taken the whole thing as 'funny', based on the ownership of the construction company.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
82. Your looking for offense where there is none. In an OP about the odd coincidences of this event
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 02:51 PM
Sep 2015

it would be imo out of place to remark about the victims. And as I already stated the concept of divine retribution via natural occurrences is a part of Islam in fact it is an aspect of most primitive faiths. It is a concept I find abhorrent and ludicrous. Since it is an intrinsic part of Islam it's not beyond the pale to wonder if this event would be an instance of it.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,308 posts)
90. You were tongue-in-cheek about an event that killed over 100 people
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 03:11 PM
Sep 2015

That's offensive. You may be so clueless that you still don't realise that, after all this conversation, but it is. You manage to recognise a problem about being 'out of place', but that doesn't mean you get to talk about the event and pretend it isn't about the dead.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
94. I find the notion of divine retribution offensive, a notion worthy of ridicule.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 03:37 PM
Sep 2015

That you want to see this solely in terms of lives lost is fine but there are other aspects to this story and my narrowly focusing on one aspect without reference to the victims is not beyond the pale.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,308 posts)
96. This wasn't about "divine retribution" - you made that up
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 03:42 PM
Sep 2015

in order, you're saying, to have something to be offended by, and to make jokes about. The 'aspect' you focus on is not part of what happened.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
65. Please explain what this part of your OP means.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 01:19 PM
Sep 2015
Seems like, whatever god is the real god, isn't too happy with the fact ISIS asshats and those who fund them are committing atrocities in it's name. Just sayin.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
40. I've read the OP several times now, I don't see how you get what you are claiming is there from
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 09:54 PM
Sep 2015

the words written. Can you explain your interpretation?

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
43. Okay
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 10:58 PM
Sep 2015

The OP appears to be making the point that someone's 'real' god (not sure what that means - is it some sort of Allah vs American Jesus or something?) is punishing members of the mosque (with death and destruction) on 9/11 because they are somehow related to terrorists, or related to Bin Laden, or supporting ISIL.

It doesn't read that way to you? What do you think the OP is saying or trying to say?

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
47. "whatever god is the real god" .....'scuse me, her name is Eris.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 06:22 AM
Sep 2015


and if you think the Universe isn't made of discord and chaos, you're not paying attention.

 

YabaDabaNoDinoNo

(460 posts)
56. So they say god is omnipotent so the god being knew he was going to kill a bunch of believers with a
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 09:52 AM
Sep 2015

crane while they are praying to him. So it was meant to be or as they say in that part of the world it is Allah's Will.

I personally say oh well shit happens and mostly likely that shit being something wrong with the set up and or operation of it or massive failure of a structural component of the crane.

Now not being one who believes in the omnipotent god or any god for that matter I got to admit it is pretty funny to see the god being wasting a bunch of his supporters

Yeah, yeah, yeah tragedy and all that but one has got to admit it is funny.

There is always humor in everything.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
64. It's not ODD at all. The probability of that accident happening was just as great on any other day
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 12:57 PM
Sep 2015

as it was on the 11th.

To suggest otherwise demonstrates nothing but ignorance and superstitious thought, and places one one the same level as Pat Robertson, et al.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
76. Cheney's roof being hit by falling debris from a plane during a freak electrical storm on the
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 02:18 PM
Sep 2015

the anniversary of the invasion of Iraq would be the equivalent of this and such an occurrence would be odd. You may want to acquaint yourself with the concept of tongue-in-cheek because your reading that one sentence literally is beyond absurd.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
87. There is no equivalency in your comment. Not even close.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 03:05 PM
Sep 2015

If you compared "two churches" to two community mosques, you'd have a point.

But you need to compare a crane crashing into the Vatican to find anything approaching equivalency, here.

And the Vatican is not even a mandatory site of pilgrimage for 1.6 billion people--the Grand Mosque--and specifically, the ka'aba, IS.

That pilgrimage starts in two weeks. If this had happened on 25 Sep, many, many more would have died.

The take-away will be that the new construction of the tawaf bridges (that broke the fall of the crane) not only spared the ka'aba, but it also spared many of the worshippers in the mosque for Friday prayer. Also, because this happened now, and not when the masjid was packed (and it does get PACKED) with people doing the rituals of the hajj, this tragedy now will be seen as having spared many more people. The 100+ people who died will be seen as martyrs to those making hajj this year.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
91. My point was it's ridiculous to attribute supernatural implications to accidents.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 03:12 PM
Sep 2015

I don't buy any of this religious bullshit, and I get sick of people saying "this happened because God thinks X" or "God is taking revenge" or some other nonsensical justifications for manmade and natural disasters.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
95. I didn't catch that point from your comment at all. You were comparing a gnat to an elephant.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 03:38 PM
Sep 2015

It's not about what "you" buy, the point here is that Mecca is the religious center for one point six BILLION with a B Muslims, similar to (but not quite like) the Vatican being the seat of faith for Roman Catholics. They are going to have an approach to this that will be colored by their religiosity. That can't be dismissed.

Those Muslims "do buy" this "religious bullshit," and they will regard this event as an indicator of divine mercy, not as "God taking revenge," because the hajj is due to start on the 25th, and had this happened at that time and not now, and the place been packed, as many as a thousand or more might have died (had this happened at hajj with a stampede following the crane falling, it could have been thousands killed/wounded).

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
99. My comment was aimed at the OP's implication that a magical being hurts/kills people based on
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 04:15 PM
Sep 2015

whether or not it is on their side: "Hmmm. Seems like, whatever god is the real god, isn't too happy with the fact ISIS asshats and those who fund them are committing atrocities in it's name. Just sayin."

That is just moronic. It's just as moronic as suggesting a church would be burned down at Easter time for some divine reason. The sarcasm was to make the point.

And, yeah, of course I get that millions of Muslims will interpret this accident in some way. It's pretty sad that some will think that good ol' Allah was merciful for only slaughtering 107 of them. It's like when the good ol' Christian God wipes out a town with a tornado, and then the few survivors fall all over themselves to praise the deity for sparing them for some special reason. That's the height of narcissism, especially in a universe of 100 billion galaxies.

As someone participating on a discussion board, I am free to post my own opinion, emphasis on my own, that the Abrahamic religions are nonsensical mythologies, and that interpretations of "God's/Allah's will" as a punishment/reward system are putridly idiotic.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
100. Well, your comment didn't come off that way.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 04:26 PM
Sep 2015

Of course you are ... free to post my own opinion, emphasis on my own, that the Abrahamic religions are nonsensical mythologies blah blah blah.... so no need to be so hot-breathed and defensive. No one is 'stopping you' from doing that .... but I didn't get any of that from your post.

What I got from your post is that you were comparing two piddling little churches in the middle of nowhere to the center of religious life for one point six billion devout people.

Apples and oranges, you see--or perhaps raisins to watermelons.

Your comparison was just terribly flawed.


 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
101. Honestly I think it's a bit odd you had so much trouble grasping the point.
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 04:41 PM
Sep 2015

So what if two churches are different than a mosque? It's pretty obvious that I was saying that pointing a finger and saying "God is displeased and is taking it out on a religious building" is stupid in any context.

But, hey, sorry to ruin your day with my terribly worded post. I hope you can continue on today...

MADem

(135,425 posts)
102. I could much more easily say "Honestly, I think it's a bit odd you had so much trouble MAKING the
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 05:15 PM
Sep 2015

point."

Your comment wasn't obvious at all. In fact, it highlighted your paucity of understanding as to the significance of this event in Mecca.

You didn't ruin my day, but judging by your pique, I fear I may have discombobulated yours.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
104. You are reallly fixated on how I made my point. Out of all the posts happening on The DU,
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 06:03 PM
Sep 2015

really ... it's kinda bizarre.

But, hey, have a good day. My day is fine, except that I have to work in between DU breaks.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
107. Not at all! I just don't think you made it, initially anyway...
Sat Sep 12, 2015, 06:35 PM
Sep 2015

You have a good day as well, then!

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
109. Pretty odd
Sun Sep 13, 2015, 03:40 PM
Sep 2015

How so?

Ironic, yes. Odd, no.

Like Lawrence Krauss says (paraphrasing) "The universe is very old and very big and amazing coincidences happen all the time."

tblue37

(65,336 posts)
113. Sorry, but this sounds like Pat Robertson and his ilk blaming gays, liberals, and abortions
Sun Sep 13, 2015, 04:38 PM
Sep 2015

for devastating natural disasters.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
114. Odd?
Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:09 PM
Sep 2015

Not nearly as odd as thinking an all-powerful, omnipotent being would kill over a hundred random people because of ISIS. If he were really motivated to do something about the killing in the Middle East, surely we would be better served if he put forth the effort and smote those who are actually doing the killing.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
116. It's also pretty odd that we resort to post hoc ergo prompter hoc arguments for lack of anything bet
Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:08 PM
Sep 2015

It's also pretty odd that we resort to post hoc ergo prompter hoc arguments for lack of anything better.

I'd always figured that if that particular fallacy is the best position I can offer, I should stay quiet rather than appearing as an irrational and under-educated person.

Just sayin.

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