Carly fiorina LIED on #GOPdebate --says Vox reporter who watched all PP videos!

[riversedge]

I say swamp her email account and the media and your Congresscritters with this.

X-posted
Carly fiorina LIED says Vox reporter who watched all PP videos!
How can a heart beat if looking at aborted tissue?

@jaketapper-@Carlyfiorina LIED says Vox reporter who watched all PP videos! http://www.vox.com/2015/9/16/9342165/carly-fiorina-planned-parenthood #p2


Carly Fiorina is wrong about the Planned Parenthood tapes. I know because I watched them.

Updated by Sarah Kliff on September 16, 2015, 9:50 p.m. ET @sarahkliff [e-mail]
Tweet (2,564) Share (10k) +

Carly Fiorina gave a harrowing description of the Planned Parenthood sting videos at Wednesday's Republican debate. She challenged Barack Obama to watch "a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking, while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain."

Related The Planned Parenthood controversy over aborted fetal body parts, explained

Fiorina is wrong: Nobody watching the Planned Parenthood tapes would see those things. I know, because I recently watched all 12 hours of footage.

The videos were produced by the Center for Medical Progress, an anti-abortion group that argues Planned Parenthood has profited from procuring fetal tissue for researchers. The videos do show Planned Parenthood officials discussing fetal tissue, sometimes in ways that are callous and jarring. But there is no moment where Planned Parenthood discusses procuring fetal tissue for profit, nor is there the scene that Fiorina describes.

There are two Planned Parenthood sting videos that were shot inside Planned Parenthood clinics (other videos exist, taped at conferences and lunch meetings). One was taped in Louisiana and the other in Colorado. And in both videos, Planned Parenthood employees do work with the fetal tissue, showing the pro-life advocates posing as tissue buyers the different parts of the body.

But the things Fiorina describes — the legs kicking, the intact "fully formed fetus," the heart beating, the remarks about having to "harvest its brain" — are pure fiction.

You don't have to take my word for it; You can watch the footage right here. The part showing fetal tissue begins about an hour and 18 minutes in and runs nearly through the end of the video, shot at the Colorado clinic.............

http://www.vox.com/2015/9/16/9342165/carly-fiorina-planned-parenthood

[Jim__]

1. FWIW -CNN Fact Check ruled that claim: True, but misleading.

From CNN Fact Check:

The clip does show what appears to be a fully formed fetus on an operating table with its legs twitching. But the clip Fiorina references is not part of the CMP sting video but was instead taken by another anti-abortion group and was added to the sting video. The Center for Medical Progress, however, doesn't explain where the fetus video was shot, so it's not clear whether it was taken at a Planned Parenthood clinic. For its part, the women's health organization has flatly denied the accusations.

Edited to change the claim from Fact Check to CNN Fact Check.

Fact Check itself actually ruled it false:

Carly Fiorina said that the Planned Parenthood videos released by an anti-abortion group showed “a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain.” But that scene isn’t in any of the videos.

[eppur_se_muova]

7. Ummmm ... "legs twitching" doesn't mean it's alive.

Reflexive Muscle Action

If by chance you come upon a dead body, stand back because it might kick you. Just a joke, but seriously, tissues continue to live for short while after your body’s death. As tissues, including muscle, die, they may contract, causing reflex like actions. Many doctors and nurses have reported seeing reflexive actions, including muscle twitches and muscles spasms, following the death of the heart. In fact, postmortem spasms have occurred (and been reported in the scientific literature) up to 12 hours after a body dies. Which leads us to our next point…

http://www.medicaldaily.com/what-forensic-scientist-doesnt-tell-you-7-postmortem-responses-dead-body-314404

tl,dr: Muscles are physical structures that respond to chemical processes regardless of whether the owner of those muscles is still categorized as "alive" or not. Postmortem spasms have been anecdotally observed in cases of violent/emotional death.

Also, see this video is semi-related (not NSFW/NSFL, but may be disturbing to some -- video of skinned fish meat twitching long after death as a result of chemical reaction with citric acid & aluminum).

https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/ii7tl/what_causes_muscle_spasms_after_death/

[Jim__]

8. Talk about missing the point.

From the Vox article:

But the things Fiorina describes — the legs kicking, the intact "fully formed fetus," the heart beating, the remarks about having to "harvest its brain" — are pure fiction.

But, according to the CNN fact check there is such a clip, it's not pure fiction:

The clip does show what appears to be a fully formed fetus on an operating table with its legs twitching. But the clip Fiorina references is not part of the CMP sting video but was instead taken by another anti-abortion group and was added to the sting video. The Center for Medical Progress, however, doesn't explain where the fetus video was shot, so it's not clear whether it was taken at a Planned Parenthood clinic. For its part, the women's health organization has flatly denied the accusations.

But it is pure misrepresentation.

And the alleged conversation clearly implies that the heart is beating (my bolding):

Carly Fiorina said, "Anyone who has watched this video tape -- I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, to watch these tapes. Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking, while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain."

In a discussion about these videos, denying that such a scene exists can completely destroy your credibility if speaking in front of a group with people who have viewed that scene. However, knowing that such a scene exists, but that is a complete misrepresentation of the facts, not only allows you to retain credibility; but allows you to completely undermine the integrity of the videos.

Whether or not the heart is actually beating is not the point. Fully knowing the facts, as far as we can know them from the description, is to our advantage. Knowing the full truth allows us to destroy their talking point.

[eppur_se_muova]

10. Poor job reading on your part. I never denied that such a scene exists.

knowing that such a scene exists, but that is a complete misrepresentation of the facts, not only allows you to retain credibility

was exactly my point. I didn't expect to be attacked for strengthening your argument!

Fully knowing the facts,

such as the fact an aborted fetus -- or any dead body -- is capable of twitcing long after death, and the voiceover is most likely plain and simply a LIE -- no reason to believe it was recorded at the same time at the video was made, but added afterwards. You can do that, you know! And the people pushing this "sting" video are known for using exactly such methods.

Fully knowing the facts, as far as we can know them from the description, is to our advantage.

Well, make up your mind. You seem to be attacking, not welcoming, facts.

[Jim__]

12. No, legs twitching doesn't mean it's alive, but the alleged conversation strongly implies that it is

And that it is being deliberately kept alive:

Carly Fiorina said, "Anyone who has watched this video tape -- I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, to watch these tapes. Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking, while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain."

[riversedge]

9. So Carly just made up that vile "fact"!!

[Jim__]

11. According to CNN, that scene exists on the sting video.

The clip does show what appears to be a fully formed fetus on an operating table with its legs twitching. But the clip Fiorina references is not part of the CMP sting video but was instead taken by another anti-abortion group and was added to the sting video. The Center for Medical Progress, however, doesn't explain where the fetus video was shot, so it's not clear whether it was taken at a Planned Parenthood clinic. For its part, the women's health organization has flatly denied the accusations.

My guess is that the video itself does not make it clear that this scene has been spliced in. Fiorina may have been fooled. But that scene was not filmed by CMP at Planned Parenthood.

Other sites I've read are not clear that the scene is on the sting video, it may be on another video that CMP has. But CMP did not film the scene, and there is no reason to believe that it was filmed at Planned Parenthood.

My point here is that this claim undermines the Planned Parenthood sting videos. But, we need to know the full story - knowing ony part of the story can work against you.

[question everything]

2. K & R

Hope all the news media refute this.

[kelliekat44]

3. The "outrage" by RW white women over PP just irritates the hell out of me. It is easy for

rich, white, well-connected women to be so damned pious about abortion and yet if the medical records were exposed and examined across the nation you may be stunned by the number of D & Cs performed by doctors who treat the affluent. It is easy to look down your nose at a poor struggling minority woman or poor woman of any color who has been trapped by physical and mental abuse from spouses and unwillingly becomes pregnant. The truth is (and i know at least two of the evangelical class) a fair number of affluent women have abortions and support them for their daughters. They call it D&C. It's a legitimate medical procedure covered by most premium insurance coverage. It's been used for decades to platinum cover what would otherwise be called "abortion" It is sometimes a very necessary procedure for a woman's good health. But let's not kid ourselves. the RW is NOT against abortion (ask any of their mistresses). They are just against poor and minority women having any help with their lives at all and especially having the government pay for any thing that might benefit them. They make you think that the government is paying for abortions and their base believes it.

"Dilation and curettage with suction is a procedure in which contents from the inside of the uterus are evacuated. "Dilation" refers to the opening of the cervix. "Curettage" refers to the aspiration or removal of tissue within the uterus with an instrument called a curette. This procedure is commonly performed as a treatment for miscarriage, retained placenta after vaginal delivery, or as a method of first-trimester elective abortion.

Relevant Anatomy
The uterus is a dynamic female reproductive organ that is responsible for several reproductive functions, including menses, implantation, gestation, labor, and delivery. It is responsive to the hormonal milieu within the body, which allows adaptation to the different stages of a woman’s reproductive life. The uterus adjusts to reflect changes in ovarian steroid production during the menstrual cycle and displays rapid growth and specialized contractile activity during pregnancy and childbirth. It can also remain in a relatively quiescent state during the prepubertal and postmenopausal years. For more information about the relevant anatomy, see Uterus Anatomy.

[yardwork]

4. Yes.

[Gothmog]

5. Carly lied through her teeth last night

[mnhtnbb]

6. A Republican lied!?! And this is supposed to be news?