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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAhmed did not make a clock
He took apart an old store-bought clock and placed the components in a pencil box.
It ought to be possible to condemn the reaction of the authorities (and point out the obvious anti-Muslim biases involved) and also acknowledge that he did not build a clock, or even assemble one.
He should obviously not have been arrested, but he should also not be hailed as some kind of creative inventor based on these actions.
Perhaps he has done other wonderfully inventive things that are worthy of praise and invitations to prestigious institutions, but this isn't it.
I find it really fascinating how "new media" allowed first for this story to go viral - with this young man being hailed as a genius, invited to bring this clock to the White House and whatnot, and then allowed for closer inspection of the clock itself that provided additional information not clear from the initial reporting.
In the olden days, this story would have most likely stayed local, but these days, if it gets picked up and spread around, it can grow into something much bigger. In any case, there are a lot of maker kids out there who ought to be rewarded for their ingenuity, but this particular incident does not seem to be an example of such creativity.
Can we not look at this story both as an example of anti-Muslim hysteria but also as an example of folks jumping on a story without having complete information?
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Oneironaut
(5,491 posts)It's irrelevant to the story anyways.
RandiFan1290
(6,229 posts)Why not post it to DU!
oberliner
(58,724 posts)"Rightwing radio" is not saying that he there was obvious anti-Muslim bias in his arrest, as my post states.
As I wrote:
It ought to be possible to condemn the reaction of the authorities (and point out the obvious anti-Muslim biases involved) and also acknowledge that he did not build a clock, or even assemble one.
Can we not even do that?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)The DU narrative has been set and anyone deviating from it is a right wing hack. C'mon, you've been here long enough to know this but I thought your OP brought out a very good question. Same thing happened to Bill Maher. It was completely ignored that he said Ahmed deserved the apology but to pretend there aren't 14 year old kids blowing crap up is apparently what we're supposed to be doing. Otherwise we may have to admit the obvious that that would be icky.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)He's a guy whose books I have read and admired (The Selfish Gene especially), and, as far as I know, is not a right winger.
I don't see why we can't condemn the ridiculous treatment of this young man (and the implicit anti-Muslim prejudices illustrated therein) while also reflecting on some other elements of the story.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)beyond the braintrust that is DU to hold those two thoughts at the same time but you know Islam and its adherents apparently need the protection of everyone on the left like they're an endangered species. I don't blame the school for investigating but the arrest and handcuffing deserved the apology Ahmed got. And you're right - Dawkins is no right winger but he's going to get slammed for this by those too invested in their memes to actually use their brains.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Read his twitter feed.
Just read the excerpts posted here:
http://www.butterfliesandwheels.org/2015/which-is-true/
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The Selfish Gene was one of my favorite books, but I confess to not being a close follower of his twitter feed and recent comments.
mr blur
(7,753 posts)
brush
(53,764 posts)Last edited Tue Sep 22, 2015, 09:10 AM - Edit history (1)
Have you inspected it? Of course you haven't.
No one is saying that he "invented" a clock.
The stories I've read say that he built a digital clock out of several components.
Although this is a complete side issue from Ahmed being cuffed and arrested, and hardly worth discussing considering the seriousness of his rights being violated, why are you so sure he didn't "make", not "invent", a clock?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That being the word "not".
Anyway, I believe there is evidence that suggests that he took a pre-existing digital clock, opened it up, and placed the contents into a pencil case.
Here's an article along those lines:
http://www.maxim.com/maxim-man/strategy/article/ahmed-mohamed-clock-truther-2015-9
Now granted maybe the guy has an agenda and is wrong, but he appears to present a reasonable case (speaking as a layman myself).
That being said, I do agree with you that it is a side issue, but I disagree that it is hardly worth discussing. I think it is at least mildly interesting.
brush
(53,764 posts)We're both right, it's a side issue.
His rights being violated are the real story.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)"Muslim teen Ahmed Mohamed creates clock, shows teachers..."
That's the first hit on Google.
Also, this was Mark Zuckerberg's statement:
"You’ve probably seen the story about Ahmed, the 14 year old student in Texas who built a clock and was arrested when he took it to school Having the skill and ambition to build something cool should lead to applause, not arrest. The future belongs to people like Ahmed."
Oneironaut
(5,491 posts)My point is, why does it matter? He did build a clock - he took the parts out of an old one and put them in a container.
Is the point that he was purposely trying to scare people, or something like that?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)But maybe you are right, it might just be semantics.
In terms of the point, maybe he brought the thing in to school to see what kind of reaction he would get. Maybe he just thought it was something cool to show teachers and friends. Who knows?
randys1
(16,286 posts)about how he was treated that a white kid would not have been.
It is shameful this garbage is found on DU
Like does it remind you of when people around here said Michael Brown might have stolen cigars, or had a picture taken of him where he looked tough, etc.
Or surely Trayvon Martin didnt have to do this or that, yeah.
ANYTHING to blame the victim IF the victim isnt white.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)You seem to be seeing things that aren't there. Maybe you should reflect on that?
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)They find some side story to try and defuse the situation. Same Shit Different Day.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)And what are you basing that conclusion on?
but be careful...you can lose your posting privileges here telling the fucking truth
Rex
(65,616 posts)Nobody here registers on that scale. However you are correct in that this thread meanings nothing and was just meant to get negative attention. Why some here crave it...who really cares at this point they make in obvious so I guess it makes them feel better.
Hell of a way to live life imo.
randome
(34,845 posts)So he deserves some accolades.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]
gollygee
(22,336 posts)He took the components from one or more old clocks and used the parts to put together a clock in a pencil box. No one thought he made the parts himself or invented anything.
Strawman.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That is just patently false.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and I can't imagine anyone thinking he mined the ore and melted the plastic to form the components for that clock.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I think folks thought that he had done something inventive or creative as many maker kids do, but I am suggesting that does not appear to have been the case here.
I understand the outrage at his treatment but I don't think some folks are going a little overboard in terms of assessing his ingenuity in this regard.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I mean seriously... the kid was trying to take some initiative and learn how to do something. He took a first step. That's a GOOD thing. He wasn't making a fake bomb, which is what is at issue here. If those teachers and cops hadn't fucked up, nobody would have their undies in a twist, because this would be between him and his teacher encouraging him to take the next step.
This thread is balls.
randys1
(16,286 posts)
yardwork
(61,588 posts)I think that you are missing the point.
Maybe you don't have children. Maybe people have to have raised children or been around them a lot to see why it was so awful to see a child in handcuffs for doing extracurricular work.
I have no idea if he is a genius or not. I have no idea if his "clock" was difficult to make or not.
He made something - not assigned, on his own, when he could have been playing video games or watching TV. He brought it to school to show his engineering teacher, who wasn't particularly impressed, apparently, but who didn't scream "bomb!" That was left to another teacher, and the principal, and the police. None of whom believed it was a bomb or they would have implemented bomb threat protocols. But they put the 14 year old in double handcuffs and took him - and the supposed bomb - downtown in the squad car.
The authorities' response is a travesty, and imo nitpicking about whether or not the kid's project was Nobel-worthy or not is beside the point.
I was proud that Presudent Obama, who knows how important it is to encourage intellectual curiosity in children, responded with kindness and interest.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It certainly could be that I am missing the point.
I would point out, however, that I am completely appalled to have seem this young man in handcuffs over this. As I thought I pointed out in my OP - that was absolutely wrong and disturbingly so.
With regard to your middle paragraph, I would just ask the question - do you know that he actually made something? It seems like he just took an existing digital alarm clock apart and put it's components into a pencil case.
I think it is great to encourage intellectual curiosity in children, and it's wonderful that President Obama responded with kindness and interest.
That being said, I am not trying to argue as to whether or not the kid's project was Nobel-worthy but rather whether it was a project at all. A lot of very prominent people have praised his inventiveness (such as Mark Zuckerberg) and, thus, it seems worthwhile to at least give a cursory examination to what it actually was that he did or made.
Speaking as someone who was once a 14 year old nerdy boy, it is certainly possible that he brought this thing in as a goof to see how clueless and ignorant people might react to it. That is the sort of thing that smart kids that age do sometimes (try to demonstrate the foolishness of adults and/or authority figures).
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)It was completely ridiculous and hysterical.
I'm just saying what he did in terms of taking the components of a pre-existing clock and putting the in a pencil case is not all that inventive.
ryan_cats
(2,061 posts)...It was completely ridiculous and hysterical.
aaannd the response is carefully measured?
Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)I don't think he achieved that but I would have to talk to him. There may be something that is not obvious to you or me.
And I don't care! You don't put him in handcuffs and interrogate him without his parents.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)As I wrote:
It ought to be possible to condemn the reaction of the authorities (and point out the obvious anti-Muslim biases involved) and also acknowledge that he did not build a clock, or even assemble one.
msrizzo
(796 posts)He wanted some input from his engineering teacher which is why he brought it to school. People who think that he was over-encouraged for his curiosity and interest in how things work should do a little research on maker fairs, invention education, etc. Ahmed is not responsible for how the internet writes stories about him but the majority of the people who reached out to him were encouraging him in his interests in building and curiosity which they felt was important in light of how his school, the place where he should have been most nurtured, reacted.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)For instance, what leads you to conclude that he wanted some input from his engineering teacher which is why he brought it to school. Also, did you read anything about what that input was? Supposedly he also took it out and plugged it in during his English class for some reason. The original story says that it beeped during English class.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)Why would you disassemble a clock and put it into a pencil case? Was he totally ignorant of the connotations?
If this kid is so bright then he should have anticipated some negative reactions.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)He is obviously a smart kid - he could've just been curious to see what the reaction would be if he brought this in. Maybe even making a point about how people less smart than him jump to conclusion (especially where Muslims are concerned).
Demit
(11,238 posts)When you were 14 years old, what were you thinking of? Were you so sophisticated that you were cognizant of "connotations" and could "anticipate" every kind of negative reaction you might get to your actions?
Either you forget what it was like to be 14 or you had some parents, to make you think like that.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)We made firecracker cannons that shot ball bearings which would probably land us in prison these days. (Very similar to pipe bomb construction.)
This is an intelligent kid we are told. He said he wanted to "impress" his teachers. Impress them with a dismantled and strangely repackaged clock? Impress the English teacher with an electronic device?
An intelligent kid? Yet, in interviews, he acted like he had a learning disorder.
These are observations that I make, not trying to excuse the inappropriate behavior of the school and the police, to put forward some skepticism about the total innocence attributed by many to Ahmed in this episode.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...out of masking tape, gun powder and the bristles from an old broom. Cheap to make and they worked great; and yes, my parents were fully aware of my homemade fireworks skills. That was the 60s. In 2015, I might have ended up with a police record. (I was nine.)
My question is this: What is the responsibility of the parents regarding Ahmed's "clock." Did they know their son had fashioned a clock that looked for all intents and purposes like a movie suitcase bomb? And, if not, why not? If they knew, did they advise him not to take it to school? If they didn't know, did he keep it from his parents? Would a young 'inventor' of clocks hide his latest timepiece 'invention' from his parents?...
And, why did he choose a 'pencil box' that looked like a briefcase when he could've chosen a pencil case that was a little more innocuous looking? Either he's intelligent enough to "invent" a clock or he's too stupid to know what a suitcase bomb looks like. Either way, where are the parents in all of this?
Texas has laws on the books about things that 'appear' to be bombs:
I'll say again that no one, especially here at DU, believes it was cool to profile, handcuff and arrest Ahmed. In fact, it was a pretty despicable, cowardly act. That said, to suggest that he and/or his parents had no clue his clock project might raise eyebrows is naive at least and willful ignorance at worst.
To be honest, I've been surprised at the pretzel lengths that DUers have been willing to twist to, in their insistence that Ahmed and his parents were too ignorant to have known that his "invention" looked surprisingly like an incendiary movie prop.
TYY
JHB
(37,158 posts)It really is just that simple.
He's a bright kid who likes to tinker with things to figure out how they work. Same as a friend of mine did, and he's teaching his kid to do it too. Same as my uncle, who was part of the team that designed and built the lunar landers for the Apollo program.
Why was he arrested again? For having a "hoax device" or something like that, despite never claiming it was anything but a clock, and nobody treating it as if they really thought it was an actual bomb?
The arrest was preposterous and that is what made the story go viral.
But as preposterous as it was for people to jump on the idea that he had a bomb or a hoax bomb or whatever, it is also kind of silly that people that don't really know any details to jump on the idea that he is a brilliant inventor based on this item that he brought into school.
He could very well be a brilliant inventor, but this clock is not evidence of such.
JHB
(37,158 posts)My WAG is that the people who think he "invented" a clock don't know anything more about electronics (or inventing) than the teacher who said it looked like a bomb in the movies.
Those of us from nerdier precincts had a better idea of the range of things he might have done, with the highest probability being in the ballpark of what he actually did.
So what?
In the category of "flawed reporting based on poor understanding of what was actually involved", this is pretty small beans. Compared to the incompetence (and/or malice) on the part of the school officials and police, it's trivial and not worth getting one's nose out of joint over it.
There are many more and much bigger fish to fry on in that category, and a lot of them have far more wide-ranging consequences.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)This is a discussion board and I just thought it was interesting to think about and talk about this element of the story. That is to say, the viral component of it and the various reactions from across the spectrum with limited knowledge of all the details.
I agree that there are much bigger fish to fry with much more wide-ranging consequences, but I just got to thinking about some of these issues and thought it was worth reflecting on and chatting about with folks.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Where someone took an old digital clock and put the components into a similar pencil case.
I don't know the provenance of said video, but Dawkins is generally a pretty smart guy (though he has his biases).
alarimer
(16,245 posts)This refers to an earlier instance, but the same is true now. He's a right-wing piece of shit.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Food for thought, definitely.
Marr
(20,317 posts)validity of their arguments?
There's way too much of this today. People read an opinion they don't like, and they bury it in a hole by dismissing the person who offered it.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)
Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)As others have pointed out, he just simply took the guts out of an existing digital clock and placed them in a pencil case. I would have given him credit if had bought one of these kits and soldered all the components to the PC board himself, because you really can learn a lot from doing that. But apparently, that's not what he did here.
Again, that justifies in no way the amount of shit and hysteria he got for it. That really is outrageous. But I agree with others here that we shouldn't push the "frustrated boy genius whose innovative idea was stifled" meme, because it's not true.
Give it a freakin rest. You and your ilk are just jealous. You are mad because you feel Ahmed didn't 'deserve' the praise he got. Fine, we get that. Now go away.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I promise that I am not jealous or mad and I don't know who my ilk is. I just find it interesting the way news stories go viral in this internet age.
Just from an intellectual standpoint, I find it fascinating the way the reaction to the incident played out over social media.
It's definitely great for this young man that things have gone so positively for him after his ridiculous arrest.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)It seems like it is worth at least looking at (and discussing) the different elements of the story among the good people at DU.
Maybe the young man was trying to make the very point that ended up being made - namely that anti-Muslim hysteria causes people to arrest a kid over an innocuous device.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)some don't want to scratch below the surface to see the complicated reality.
Orrex
(63,199 posts)I once built a LEGO gumball machine and brought it in to show off at school. So who cares where Ahmed got the clock parts?
It inconveniences me not at all if he is recognized for his cleverness. More power to him.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Last edited Tue Sep 22, 2015, 08:17 PM - Edit history (1)
Just interesting to see the way new media and virality took hold of this story.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)
Your good!
TM99
(8,352 posts)We coddle them. We hover over them well into adulthood. We lavish unwarranted praise and condemnation upon them. We see them as brilliant, genius, special snow flakes one moment and thuggish, terrorists the next.
Should the kid have been arrested as he was? Hell no. That was fucking ridiculous.
Should the kid be given a 'full ride to MIT' and all of this narcissistic ego stroking by complete strangers that he has gotten? No, not really. There is nothing 'genius' about putting the parts of a clock in a pencil case.
And you are right that the internet does not encourage reasoned and rational responses to situations such as these. If you say anything negative about the kid on a left leaning site, you are labeled a fascist right-winger. If you say anything negative about the school's response on a right leaning site, you are labeled a liberal terrorist supporter.
Truprogressive85
(900 posts)Black and Brown kids are demonized and discriminated against
yet all you can say is not a creative inventor ?
You will never see a white child in handcuffs and than attacked by rabid racists over such thing
oberliner
(58,724 posts)In fact, I think it's great that he was able to win the day and turn this unpleasant experience into something very positive.
I agree that the story illustrates anti-Muslim (and probably racist) assumptions on the part of many of the folks involved.
All that being said, it does not seem like he actually made or built anything in this case, but rather took apart an existing clock and put it in a pencil case. So with that in mind, it is interesting to see the viral reaction.
Truprogressive85
(900 posts)Are you saying that a child being arrested for doing no crime should not make national news or go viral ?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)My observation is that when it did go viral people online responded to elements of the story that they did not know anything about. The initial local news story that got picked up was fairly short on detail and certainly gave the impression that the young man had actually made some sort of clock.
The first element of the virality - namely that a young Muslim student was arrested unjustly - is clearly outrageous and worthy of condemnation.
However, the second phase of the story - where this young man is being saluted for his ingenuity in making an original clock of some kind - is the part that seems to be not based entirely on complete information.
I think it ought to be possible and indeed encouraged for folks to look into the details of what happened to get a fuller picture. That's just basic journalism.
Demit
(11,238 posts)This is a real request. Because I don't recall that reaction. There might have been some overcompensation, some desire to compensate for the immediate reaction that he had a bad intent, but I don't recall anyone explicitly saying he was a genius. Who did?
Are you sure you aren't assuming that people must have been saying that he was a genius, because there were people sneering at the idea that he was?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Ahmed Mohamed is a maker in the making. A young genius if you ask his cousin. Mohamed builds his own radios and Bluetooth speakers and likes to tinker on his go-kart because he wants to be an inventor when he grows up. So, the 9th-grader brought a clock he made to his new Texas school with the hope of impressing his teachers. Instead, the Muslim boy was arrested by Texas police after teachers worried that his clock was actually a bomb.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/16/9336259/nerds-support-ahmed-muhamed
And this was a popular one that was reprinted a lot of places:
Texas School Mistakes Genius Student For Terrorist
Ahmed Mohamed, 14, was excited enough about his most recent engineering achievement that he wanted to show his teachers at MacArthur High.
http://national.suntimes.com/national-fashion/7/72/1834821/texas-school-mistakes-genius-student-for-terrorist
I do not think this was an "engineering achievement" as it was reported as being above and elsewhere.
Demit
(11,238 posts)The first link, to a Vox Media blog, calls him 'boy genius' in the headline, but in the body of the story refines that by saying he's a genius "if you ask his cousin." The WashPo story it links to doesn't call him a genius. It quotes the same cousin calling him a genius.
Second link is to a fashion blogger, not exactly what I would call reportage. The Dallas News story she links to is much more circumspect; it quotes the president, his press secretary, Mark Zuckerberg & Hillary Clinton, and links to a good sampling of tweets, all offered words of support. None calling Ahmed a genius.
If you feel that the two bloggers you linked to are media heavy hitters, then I guess you are right to try to counterbalance their attempts to persuade everyone to think like Ahmed's cousin.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)You had said that you had not seen anyone use that term in this context.
Demit
(11,238 posts)your assertion. Your assertion was a lot broader than the use of one word: Your accusation is that the kid was widely "hailed as some kind of creative inventor." You even assert that "he did not build a clock, or even assemble one."
I think you're overstating the case, that there's some kind of media consensus that Ahmed is a genius. But you're only being curmudgeonly there, for whatever your reasons are. You're plainly wrong about what he made, as other posters are pointing out. I'm glad to see you're having to walk that one back.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The bodies of the stories are not really relevant in that context. I was just pointing out that the word genius was thrown around, in headlines, on twitter, etc.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)http://www.refinery29.com/2015/09/94070/texas-school-mistakes-genius-student-for-terrorist
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/16/they-thought-it-was-a-bomb-ahmed-mohamed-texas-9th-grader-arrested-after-bringing-a-home-built-clock-to-school/
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/16/9336259/nerds-support-ahmed-muhamed
It's a perfect vortex of idiot school admins, idiot cops who were called by the idiot school admins demanding the cops "do something" and a whole lot of idiots in the media, new and old, who jumped to conclusions past what the facts probably support to make their version of the story get the most hits..
Marr
(20,317 posts)He was portrayed as a sort of socially awkward, engineering prodigy.
Demit
(11,238 posts)Which does not indicate a widespread belief to me.
When you say every article, that sounds like you read quite a few articles. I did too, or so I thought, and I don't recall that being an overriding tone, that the kid was a prodigy. I'm not being snarky, I'm being quite serious. If you can link to articles that either said or heavily implied that the kid had done something so out of the ordinary that he could be considered a prodigy, I had to have missed those. I would be most interested in seeing them now.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The Sun Times is not an obscure blog. It is a leading US newspaper.
Demit
(11,238 posts)It carries the byline "Refinery29," which is an "independent fashion and style website," as it describes itself, carried online by the Sun Times Network. Check it again.
http://national.suntimes.com/national-fashion/7/72/1834821/texas-school-mistakes-genius-student-for-terrorist
By the way, the Sun Times Network is a whole different animal from the newspaper. Check out what the Columbia Journalism Review had to say about it at its launch this year: http://www.cjr.org/business_of_news/sun_times_network.php
trumad
(41,692 posts)nothing more.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)There is no "trolling" involved here at all.
I am someone who has been an active member of this board for many many many years. I find this story to be interesting and wanted to share my views and get thoughts and insights from others who may or may not agree with my observations.
To dismiss this thoughtful and respectful post as "troll bait" is just plain rude.
This is a discussion board for crying out loud.
trumad
(41,692 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)I mean, I don't think the purpose of a message board is to exclusively post things that everyone will completely agree with and then have a string of responses that say "+1000" or "You rock".
Even if you think my reflections are wrong-headed, please know they are not meant as flame-bait.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)People love to swarm. I guess then they feel they're in the majority, and that makes them feel safe.
I can't understand why people can't disagree without calling names. Juvenile imo.
Nothing wrong with your OP.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)This guy is partly to blame...
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)You've gone against the DU narrative and how you're a flame baiting troll. I happen to agree with every word you said.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I appreciate it.
Marr
(20,317 posts)At first it seemed like little more than another illustration of anti-middle eastern bias in this country, and perhaps anti-intellectualism. But that's so obvious and often-seen that it's hardly shocking anymore, though it's no less pathetic.
What's been a lot more interesting to me personally is how people just mindlessly lined up along familiar political lines of scrimmage and started name calling, and defending their chosen 'hero', based on nothing but the roughest of outlines. It's become almost Pavlovian.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Can you provide any link to any article where Ahmed or anyone else makes the claim that he modified the design to include battery backup?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)HE took an old, 110V LED style clock and added battery backup to make it portable.
Desert805
(392 posts)The clock he switched from one housing into a pencil box included a 9v battery backup.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I agree with your OP, and I find it kind of sad that you have to keep repeating what you wrote in it to others who've decided to misinterpret it.
I don't know; maybe they just don't read well.
But you're right - the kid did not "make" a clock.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I find it odd that some folks are offended at the prospect of even talking about this at all on a discussion board. Especially considering the fact that I am not disputing the important core elements of the story regarding the injustice of this young man's arrest.
Iggo
(47,547 posts)And then a bunch of people who knew it was a clock decided to punish him as if he did something terribly wrong, because brown skin and because Ahmed.
That was the story from the beginning.
Everyone with a brain understood that.
But yes, he did make a clock.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)You are saying that he did make a clock. Do we know that to be true?
Again, the whole punishing him because of his name and the color of his skin is the injustice here and that is in no way being disputed at all by my observations.
Setting that aside for a moment, it does not seem that he actually took parts from one clock and made a new clock out of those parts but rather took apart a clock and placed the components into a pencil case.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)What, exactly, is the difference between "took parts from one clock and made a new clock" and "took apart a clock and placed the components into a pencil case"?
He made a functional clock either way. And yes, it was functional. He also added a battery backup power supply.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Can you point me to a link with that info?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)In fact it says the exact opposite:
Inside it, the electronics appear less as a combination of miscellaneous parts wired together into a timepiece, and more so as simply the guts of a standard digital alarm clock. Seen are a big seven-segment display, a transformer for stepping down the line voltage, 9-volt connector for power-outage battery backup, plus the control board with buttons to set the clock, and the main board that connects all the pieces together, attached to the display by a wide ribbon cable.
(Cited from the link you provided)
The standard digital alarm clock would already have a 9-volt connector for power-outage battery backup.
In any case, the article at the link does not in any way suggest that this was a component that he added.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Yes, you can get one with a battery backup, but it's not the norm.
It was also pretty trivial to add to something that already runs on 9V DC.
There's still nothing "genius" level in what he did. But he did actually do something.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)And, again, there is nothing in that link that says that he added such a component. Nor is there any article where he or anyone else makes that claim.
If you go on Amazon and browse for digital alarm clocks, you will find some that have a 9V battery backup.
For example:
http://www.amazon.com/RCA-Digital-Alarm-Clock-Display/dp/B007T0W5CA
I think it is OK to acknowledge that he did not make or invent anything but rather just took apart a clock and placed it in a pencil case without diminishing any of the other elements of the story.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Cheap clocks don't have them. More expensive clocks do. Most clocks sold are cheap clocks.
Except for the fact he did actually make something - taking the parts from a clock and putting them into another case is making something.
He's starting his geekdom. That inherently requires taking things apart and putting them in something else. It's how we learn the basics.
You are complaining that he didn't do what an electrical engineer could do, so he should not be receiving this much praise.
What you don't get is the praise is not because he's the next great electronics genius. It's to make up for the massive pile of shit that was dumped on him so that he does not give up. Abandoning electronics would stop that shit from being dumped on him again and again and again.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I am trying to understand where you are able to reach the conclusion that he added the battery component (which you asserted as if it was a fact) when there are digital clocks that would have had such a component included (especially cheap ones from the 80s).
I agree that the praise was to make up for his mistreatment, rather than for his ingenuity - that was actually the observation I was making.
Edit to add:
Here's a cheap one from the 80's with a 9V battery backup:
Make it to school and work on time with vintage style!
DESCRIPTION:
Vintage 80's Micronta LED alarm clock with battery back-up. Uses 9 volt battery (included, so it's ready to go!)
https://www.etsy.com/listing/105748501/time-flies-vintage-80s-led-alarm-clock
The original clock indeed had a battery backup. All he did was undo a few screws, and add a little hot glue.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Last edited Tue Sep 22, 2015, 06:21 PM - Edit history (1)
during electrical outages. It was a selling point feature.
For example in 1985:
http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/html/1985/h148.html
They note that the "Battery Backup" is "Featured in All Eight AC Clocks".
He didn't add it it was part of the clock he put in the pencil case.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)But I don't see where he is given credit for actually adding on the battery backup.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)IDemo
(16,926 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)But let's continue tearing down this kid. He didn't even design his own chips!!!!
IDemo
(16,926 posts)As the OP states, there is the treatment of Ahmed by school authorities and police, which were obviously over the top. But pointing out that his invention wasn't really of his design or manufacture does not mean one agrees with that treatment.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)He didn't even make his own capacitors, after all.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)Who have actually taken the time to investigate some basic electronics principles and applied them in projects. It can take a bit of time to understand core concepts and to debug a protoboard circuit until it functions as desired, but that experience will be vastly more valuable in gaining them access to an MIT or Cal Tech than simply relocating the components from an original case into a pencil box.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Yet I'm still not interested in tearing this kid down by saying he's not a good enough electrical engineer.
You start with "relocating components". Then you move on to various prototyping equipment.
The various tours he has been offered are an attempt to encourage him to continue down this path, instead of abandoning it due to the pile of shit dumped on him. He is not "cutting in line", nor is it in any way training him. It's just encouraging him to continue on this path.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)This is a discussion board. Can't we just talk about things? No one is tearing anyone down.
Desert805
(392 posts)as you are doing.
He didn't do anything terribly noteworthy (especially if you are AT ALL familiar with the maker scene), and he definitely shouldn't have been arrested.
This isn't hard.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And yes, a 40-something who has been doing this kind of thing for decades could do better.
But he's just starting down this path. Of course he's going to start with simple projects.
You seem to be very bothered that he is receiving too much praise, and don't understand that the praise is an attempt to get him to not abandon this path.
Desert805
(392 posts)From the evidence, he didn't do anything all that remarkable, especially in light of what kids are doing in the maker scene. Maybe he's built a robot, I don't know. Maybe he's a genius. I'm talking about the clock.
I also said he shouldn't have been arrested. It was ridiculous, and it made my blood boil. I posted Obama's response on Facebook.
But you probably know all this already, because you have me all figured out.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Make it to school and work on time with vintage style!
DESCRIPTION:
Vintage 80's Micronta LED alarm clock with battery back-up. Uses 9 volt battery (included, so it's ready to go!)
https://www.etsy.com/listing/105748501/time-flies-vintage-80s-led-alarm-clock
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Whether he is a genius or just an ordinary nerdy kid is also beside the point.
The entire focus of this story is the hysterical overreaction on the part of the school and the police. He is Muslim and brown, and therefor, he must be a terrorist.
I believe that the attention given to him, by the President, by Microsoft and others is an attempt to redress the horrible way he was treated. And the fucking pieces of shit who are now picking on him for that clock: "He didn't invent anything", "He's no genius", "He got arrested on purpose to make a point", etc. All of you doing this and buying into the rightwing bullshit can go straight to hell. Fuck all of them for picking on a 14 year old kid.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Though I hope you are not including me among those you condemn for "picking on him for that clock".
I completely agree that he was wrongly arrested and I am glad that this has managed to turn into something positive for him.
I just find it interesting that some people seemed to make assumptions about the clock based on incomplete information.
It is fascinating to see how the vitality of the story moved through the internet universe.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)When the left and right start sounding alike on racism and xenophobia, history has taught me to listen
ARTHUR CHU
For a period of about 24 hours Ahmed Mohamed was a genuine feel-good story, the story of the Internet coming together to help a 14-year-old black Muslim kid who’d been wrongfully arrested for a homemade clock that supposedly looked like a bomb.
But it’s the Internet and the news cycle moves fast–I predicted at the time that the success of Ahmed’s viral story would have its own built-in backlash, as all viral stories do, and that reactionaries trying to discredit him wouldn’t be far away.
And sure enough, within a few days the Internet delivered.
I’m not that concerned by the genuinely deranged people out to make Ahmed into a monster or a terrorist, to claim that all Islamophobia is ultimately justified. Their narrative isn’t going to get much traction.
What I’m concerned by is the supposed well-meaning liberals like Bill Maher and Richard Dawkins chiding us that this case just doesn’t matter that much, telling us we’re becoming overly emotional about it. Maher telling us to “have a little perspective,” saying the actions of Ahmed’s teacher who had him arrested were understandable. Dawkins calling Ahmed a “fraud” because his clock wasn’t built entirely from scratch like some people thought it was, and calling showing the clock to his teacher a “silly prank.”
More: http://www.salon.com/2015/09/21/the_despicable_backlash_against_ahmed_mohamed_its_nothing_new_for_white_america_to_see_the_gifted_other_as_its_greatest_threat/
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It is insane that people think Ahmed's arrest was understandable or that there is any kind of backlash against Ahmed.
There are some truly deranged people out there who are trying to make Ahmed into a monster or a terrorist.
It is really inspiring, though, to see how quickly this horrible experience for Ahmed has turned into something positive.
That being said, it ought to be possible to try to ascertain what exactly the device was without diminishing the much more important elements of the story.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)The kid says it's a clock. Up and down, it's a clock, it's a clock, it's a clock. It's made of clock parts, and it's not anything that's nit a clock, so why do you and some others have to act like he's lying?
Further, when people and organizations reach out to him, why do you sniff about how undeserving he is, how they're being fooled, and so on?
You don't have to rail against the idea of Muslims holding office to be an islamophobe. Ask Maher and Dawkins, both very much islamophobic derps
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...about it being a clock because it IS a clock. If he can be accused of a lie then it would be a lie of omission, in that he failed to admit to building a clock that looked like a movie prop. I believe he knew his clock had the potential to be perceived as looking like a poorly made suitcase bomb, I just wonder if his parents saw his "clock" before he took it to school. The kid may be too young to fully understand the ramifications of taking his "invention" to school but his parents damn well should've understood and advised him not to take it.
Schools have taken an over-the-top, no exceptions stance on weapons since 9/11, Columbine, Sandy Hook, et al. That includes kids as young as kindergarten being suspended and/or charged by police for bringing a toy Nerf gun to school, drawing pictures of guns, cutting out paper guns, telling friends they might shoot them with their Hello Kitty bubble gun, biting the corner out of a Pop Tart or a Chicken McNugget to make their food look like a gun, pointing a finger and saying, "Pow..."
Seriously, the cops in schools situation is completely out of control. Interrogating, handcuffing and jailing Ahmed is beyond shameful but it shouldn't come as a surprise since he's just one of many similar cases. I think the militarized school to prison pipeline mentality is terrorizing kids every day in schools all across America. It's scary as hell and it needs to stop.
TYY
oberliner
(58,724 posts)He says it's a clock and I believe him.
I think it's great that people and organizations have reached out to him, especially in light of the way he was treated at his school and by the police.
I think Islamophobia is deplorable in whatever form it takes.
He just didn't actually make a clock. He took an existing one apart and brought it to school. And people freaked out about it in spite of him repeatedly telling them that it was a clock, which it was.
Bettie
(16,086 posts)Because I was beginning to lose faith in humanity and DU.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)"Faith in humanity"
For instance:
25 Photos That Will Restore Your Faith in Humanity
Bettie
(16,086 posts)why are people so horrible all the time.
Why are you so eager to make this kid into a villain?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I am appalled by the way he was treated and am glad that things have turned out so well for him in the end, in spite of the horrible experience of being arrested that he had to endure.
Bettie
(16,086 posts)that he's some kind of liar because he didn't make/construct (choose your word) the clock to your specifications.
The whole point of the story was that it was a CLOCK not a bomb.
In the end, it doesn't matter if he mined the metal and melted the plastic to make all the components or if it was a rebuilt thing, the point is twofold:
1. it wasn't a bomb and no one ever thought it was.
2. this would never have happened to a white boy.
By picking at him because you don't like that he did the clock in a way you disapprove of, you play into all the right wing "he's a terrorist" language and you trivialize what was done to him, even down to using Barbara Bush's turn of phase.
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if this keeps him from ever again taking initiative. Just keep your head down and say "yessir" and "nosir" and no one goes to prison. I'm glad that people are taking an interest in him and showing him that not everyone is filled with hate.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Never once called him any kind of liar. Not picking on him in any way.
It was obviously not a bomb and he was obviously treated unfairly due to his race and religion.
There is nothing but admiration from me with respect to how he has handled this injustice.
I very much doubt this keeps him from ever again taking initiative. In fact, it seems to have ended up being quite a wonderful experience for him in the end - getting so much support and positive attention from so many people prominent and otherwise.
All that being said, he didn't actually make a clock. There's nothing so terrible in acknowledging that.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)sets him apart from the vast majority of kids his age. These days we should be thrilled anytime kids are doing sonething other than Facebook, Snapchat and Instagram. And of course once a teacher looked at it and saw that it was not a bomb that should have been the end of it. Calling Ahmad a "genius" based upon this project is of course overblown; he may or may not be a genius but if he does turn out to be one it wouldn't surprise me in the least.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Tinkering appears to be a lost art in many cases, though it does seem to be making a comeback with all the various STEM initiatives being promoted at some schools.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)He modified the clock components to include battery power backup, something not a part of the original components.
So you FAILED to promote what is a rightwing meme.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I resent that accusation.
If you could provide a link to support your claim that he modified the clock components to include battery power backup that would be very much appreciated.
Or at least point out where you got that information from.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)It is not an accusation, what you are pushing is a rightwing meme.
Look at this photo with the components explained:
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Please re-read my OP. I am completely in support of all the left-wing memes associated with this story and none of the rightwing ones.
The photo that you provided indicates that the components of a digital alarm clock were placed into a pencil case.
The labeled components are all exactly what one would find if one took apart such a clock.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)This OP did not even come close to suggesting them.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)The components for Ahmed's build came from an old MICRONTA 63-765A Digital Alarm Clock with Battery Backup (Radio Shack).
The shape and design is a dead give away. The large screen. The buttons on the front laid out horizontally would have been on a separate board – a large snooze button, four control buttons, and two switches to turn the alarm on and off, and choose two brightness levels. A second board inside would have contained the actual “brains” of the unit. The clock features a 9v battery back-up, and a switch on the rear allows the owner to choose between 12 and 24 hour time. (Features like a battery back-up, and a 24 hour time selection seems awful superfluous for a hobby project, don’t you think?) Oh, and about that “M” logo on the circuit board mentioned above? Micronta.
Desert805
(392 posts)The battery backup was always part of the clock.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)so the clock won't lose time if there is a brief electrical power outage.
The Radio Shack Micronta digital clock I had in the 80's had that feature.
And you could get a free battery every month with your Radio Shack "Free Battery of the Month Card".
oberliner
(58,724 posts)We hardly knew ye.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)and accessory store. Especially ironic since they were the pretty much the only local
place for electronic parts for those of us that built stuff back in the day.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Is there a go-to store for the maker movement? Perhaps some company can step in and fill that void (if such a void does indeed exist).
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)I used to love their "DIY" kits back in the day. They could have been your Maker connection, but they saw the ham radio and RC hobby crowd disappearing and put all their money on cell phones.
Maybe they can "remake" themselves and still do it.
treestar
(82,383 posts)That overkill was what did it. Though anything can go viral these days. Without the arrest, it would be another School Overkill story but still there.
It depends on the person about whether they are impressed by the clock. I'm a liberal arts type of person, so anything like that impresses me. I don't think it ever occurred to me to take anything apart to see how it worked.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)stuff that in the old days would result in a call from the principal to the parent.
countingbluecars
(4,766 posts)for the bigotry of the school and police. Why do you have to tear it down? Do you take candy from kids too?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I am very glad this has turned into something positive for him.
Separate from that, though, is it OK to at least examine what he actually did? And to reflect on some of the assumptions that folks made with incomplete information?
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)Just because he didn't buy each component individually from different sources doesn't mean what he did didn't take some degree of skill, much more than your average 14 year old.
I sure as shit wouldn't be able to rebuild my own alarm clock by my bed, even if I had all the pieces.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It's quite possible that what he did took some degree of skill. I just think that perhaps people responded to the story with incomplete information and may believe that he did something more inventive than what he actually did. Like creating a homemade digital clock.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)That said, he still manage to build/rebuild something that most of us, myself included, don't have skill or ability to do. So yeah, props to him.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And the problem with that is........?
He's not being hired for a job based on creating a homemade digital clock. He's got a whole buch of geeks trying to do something good for him because they remember back to when they first started.
In my personal case, I was given a broken telephone to play with (back when rotary phones existed). I fixed it. Had no real clue what I was doing. That didn't make me a super-genius. It just started down the road of "how's that thing work" which leads to eventually making your own things.
It would be far easier for this kid to just abandon electronics in response to the shit dumped on him. So he's getting goodies to encourage him to not do that.
You appear to be complaining that he's receiving too many goodies. What, specifically, is the problem with that?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I just think it interesting to see how the story went viral. It seemed like there was a little bit of over-praising going on as if some people believed that he had created something ingenious, as opposed to something akin to completing a jigsaw puzzle, to use your example. But as you say, it could have just been meant to counter balance the horrible mistreatment this young man suffered.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Just because we support Ahmed and are outraged at his mistreatment, doesn't mean we can't look into getting all the details right about what happened.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)What, specifically, is the problem if non-technical people do not have a 100% accurate grasp of what he did? What harm is done?
He isn't going to work for Intel based on this incident. He's getting some tours and other goodies.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)There is no "harm" or no problem here and I am not looking for one.
I am just fascinated with the way stories go viral and how people respond to them without complete information (and in some cases, without even a desire to try to get more info or to verify basic facts).
One can stand with Ahmed and against the outrageous injustice that he faced and still be curious enough about the story to want to try to examine the details and the way it played out in social media.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Which has nothing to do with the technical merit of what he did. So why are you so concerned about accurate reporting of the technical merit?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)
Bonx
(2,053 posts)
Desert805
(392 posts)Undo a few screws, remove the pile of attached components, move factory attached/assembled components to a pencil box...
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,166 posts)Sadly, it took me 10 minutes to correct the time on my digital watch this morning.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I was neither a criminal mastermind of social engineering - a terrorist bent on world domination, nor was I a lazy hack looking for validation for the most rudimentary form of random destruction.
I was a kid.
This kind of curiosity used to be common, today it's not - not only because this generation of kids grew up afraid to peel off the "no user serviceable parts inside" sticker, but also because in the age of microelectronics, it's unlikely that you could correctly reassemble it.
He took it apart, and put it in a new case. Today they call this "case-modding". I challenge you to do this with your cellphone.
This is how you learn stuff - with a screwdriver.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Doesn't that invalidate the warranty?
IDemo
(16,926 posts)but in case you're willing to give it a go:
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+S+III+Teardown/9391
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)"If I don't know how to do it, it must be easy."
99% of the population will be deterred by the tamper resistant screws. Ahmed's critics will be drawn exclusively from that population.
So yeah, I'm suggesting you try to open up your cellphone. $79 is a relatively cheap education, but it might be worthwhile to start on an alarm clock.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It would be cool if Ahmed or someone close to him would just say what he did exactly. That, in and of itself, could inspire other like-minded kids to similar feats.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Ask my folks about the warranty of our VCR in 1983. 
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)If you can't open it, you don't own it.
While doing some googling a moment ago, I stumbled on the following site
https://www.ifixit.com/ "The free repair guide for everything"
Quite cool.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)Exactly.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Not because he invented something new or shiny. Most articles I've read are pretty clear about the fact that the clock was just a typical 'take it apart and put it back together to see how it works' type project that smart, geeky kids have done forever.
Except he was punished for it.
People, especially people who were also smart, curious, geeky kids at one point have stepped up to show him moral support. Which in the circumstance he really needed.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)No question about that.
However, I do think some folks were under the impression that he did more than take something apart and put it back together. As you say, that's something that lots of kids have been doing forever and so is not particularly noteworthy, in and of itself, were it not for the reaction of the school and police.
There did seem to be the implication that this clock was something more than that, though. But it's quite possible that was a minority opinion/perception.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Anti-Muslim hysteria is the default position of the GOP. And some of that hysteria is evident at DU as well. In some groups more than others.
Jappleseed
(93 posts)What is so important about this little portion of the story that bigots must crap all over a kid.
A partial list of what this child did do.
What he did do is show a Will to learn.
What he did do is show Ingenuity.
What he did do is show Iniative.
That is why so many smart and open folks are gushing all over this young person. Obama knows this is imporantant for young people, Google does too. As do the others who are standing up for this young and willing learner.
Now lets point out what others and the police are doing.
Crap all over a child who is willing to learn in order to belittle and stomp any critical thought or self esteem from him. At least one or more of the above is doing so because of this childs skin color or religion.
I stand with Obama, Google and anyone else who knows it is important to foster positive critical thinking from our young minds. To everyone else I gotta say head back to your hole.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It was awful what happened to him and it is great that it has turned into something positive for him.
Did he make a clock or just take apart a clock and put it in a pencil case? Does it matter? Maybe not.
Is it OK to ask the question and try to ascertain what he actually did do? Seems like it should be.
One should be able to look at that question while still standing in complete support with Ahmed and vehemently against the injustice that he faced.
Desert805
(392 posts)and how many ways you have to explain this. I don't know if folks don't read past the headline before they post, or if they're just THAT invested in THAT PART (weird) of the story.
Jappleseed
(93 posts)It was about accuracy. Not demonizing a child for pot, or a picture, or a hoodie, or a fight.
Or big Mike and some cigarellos.
Or any number of people of color and the unrelated bull that bellittles and dehumanizes them in order to justify how they are treated.
Sick.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)In this case, I have expressed repeatedly throughout the thread that I am absolutely disgusted by the injustice that Ahmed faced, and I am very pleased that things have turned out positively in the end. I'm not sure how I can make that any clearer.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...and would have said so in the first thread about this the other day but it was hidden.
I'll go one step further and suggest that Ahmed intentionally build something that looked like a pretend bomb, down to his decision to choose a pencil case that looked like a briefcase. There are instructions all over the internet about how to build a prank alarm clock that looks like a bomb. Here is one such page of said prank clocks from 2012:
Like me! there are many who have difficulty to awake early in the morning, if so then here is a scary tactic to take you out of the bed.
Let us tell you how to make a defusable bomb alarm clock so that you have to defuse explosive bomb alarm clock every morning. It will give an alarm at the specified time and you will have only 10 seconds to cut or disconnect the proper wire or it will explode 
. Don’t worry there would not be any blast but it will only blink the LEDs to simulate the explosion.
<snip>
This one looks more advanced with a nice covering. It is an epic build inside a steel briefcase and all circuitry is hidden except the clock numbers and the red push button. Don’t ever take it outside with you.
<snip>
Airsoft team built a great device in a steel suitcase. They modified the software to have a higher countdown value and the timer starts when the case is opened. They also amplified the sound with a speaker.
<snip>
Precautions:
We believe, the prankster hidden in you will be giving you many ideas to scare your friends and family members plus your colleagues with this dangerous looking phony bomb clock but use your brain first. This kind of device can make people freak out and call the authorities. So don’t bring this to school or to work, and certainly don’t bring it anywhere near an airport or sensitive area! Seriously, we don’t want you to get yourself into trouble. Love you all and only defuse explosive bomb alarm clock every morning in your bed.
http://www.latesthandmade.com/defuse-explosive-bomb-alarm-clock-every-morning/
No one, especially here at DU, believes it was cool to profile, handcuff and arrest Ahmed. In fact, it was a pretty despicable, cowardly act. That said, to suggest that he had no clue his clock project might raise eyebrows is naive at least and willful ignorance at worst.
DUers should not be swarmed and shamed from speaking their mind about touchy topics. This is a discussion board; that's what we do...discuss stuff.
TYY
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Well said.
Regarding the content of your post, who knows? It's definitely possible that he said, I'm going to bring in this thing and watch how people react as a way of trolling some of his teachers and/or showing how implicitly racist they are (or how stupid they are). Supposedly it beeped during English class and it was that teacher who freaked out about it so he didn't just show it to his engineering teacher.
If this was what was going on, that's even more clever than taking apart an alarm clock.
Or maybe he just had this cool thing that he wanted to show a teacher for support/encouragement and the reaction was not at all what he was expecting. It'd be cool to find out from Ahmed directly, though it seems like there are lawyers involved and the like so that's pretty unlikely at this point.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...until it beeped in English class and the proverbial cat was forced from the bag.
'Shit' in one hand, 'maybe' in another. The problem, as I see it, is the school to prison police state that kids are now required to navigate for a diploma, without acquiring a police record along the way.
TYY
kcr
(15,315 posts)And when it happens, some seem quick to whine that they're being swarmed and shamed when all they're getting is disagreement. Seems to me the vast majority in this thread were respectful in their disagreement. This OP didn't get the response you wanted. I'd hardly call it a shaming swarm.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...to the original thread that was hidden.
TYY
Yes. I saw that. And, I still say people will be challenged and shouldn't expect otherwise.
The whole point of a discussion board is exactly that. In fact, what I like best about DU is having respectful and courteous discussions and disagreements. In that respect, the OP got exactly the response I wanted. A lot of good points raised and things to think about.
Marr
(20,317 posts)But we've got a lot of this today...
And people line up to defend their pure-as-the-driven-snow 'side' without even thinking. I could be wrong-- maybe this kid just took the insides out of a normally functioning clock and shoved them into a case to prove... clocks can work without pretty cases...? I don't know.
If he was indeed trolling the authorities, that wouldn't change anything about their reaction or what it says about our society. But I'd rather have an accurate picture of the event than some black and white, good guy/bad guy, 'innocent genius vs. vicious cretins' cartoon.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)If he was trying to make that kind of point through that kind of trolling that would be damn ingenious.
Marr
(20,317 posts)innards of a clock from one box to another. I don't mean it as condemnation.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)And that whole complaining about 'PC' thing - is almost always people complaining they can no longer find social acceptance for their racist, homophobic, sexist, etc, etc, "jokes".
Marr
(20,317 posts)Exactly the same 'evidence' you have for assuming he was just excited about his clock. The situation itself, as a whole-- particularly the part about showing it to his science teacher, who offered encouragement, but suggested he not show it to other teachers because they wouldn't know what it was.
Kids aren't as stupid as they seem to think they are. I doubt he expected the response he actually got, but it seems reasonable to me to think he was fishing for some sort of official response, given the particulars. As I said, that wouldn't excuse the overblown response on the part of the school or, particularly, the police.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)and added the backup battery, which is exactly the kind of thing a future engineer would do.
What do you think he should have done -- fabricate all the pieces in a lab?
You sound jealous, frankly.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)As has been noted more than a couple of times, the pieces for this project came directly from a Micronta alarm clock from the 1980's which came with a 9v battery backup. And truly, there were no pieces; the circuit board, ribbon cable and LED display were all connected.
Here is an account from someone who went the extra mile at that age to build a digital clock.
And here is a link to the FIRST Robotics competition, a source for youngsters to engage with engineering mentors to design and build robotics.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)This is what future engineers do that most kids do not. They take things part, look at them, and put them back together. You don't have to enter an adult-organized competition to be a future engineer.
An MIT professor said this is the kind of kid they want to attract. Some people here seem like they're dripping with jealousy.
Are they jealous that they weren't handcuffed by the police and led off by the police in front of their classmates? I'm glad all the attention helped make up for what he'd gone through.
Bonx
(2,053 posts)Unlike the kids competing at the Google Science fair, where Ahmed is the celebrity:
http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/21/technology/google-science-fair/
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Isn't having the facts correct important? Like Journalism 101?
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)treated him as a threat and had him put in handcuffs and paraded out of the building, when they knew perfectly well that the thing wasn't a bomb -- which is why they didn't call in the bomb squad or evacuate the school.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)But why not also get the less important facts right too?
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Oh well you got what you wanted anyway. 
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I am certainly happy to have any incorrect facts corrected. That's one of best things about DU - learning from one another.
Rex
(65,616 posts)You got all what you wanted from this thread. Yawn.
KT2000
(20,572 posts)is when a person takes pre-existing tones and puts them together in a unique configuration. Clothing design is when a person takes pre-existing materials and puts them together in a unique configuration.
Ahmed created his clock to show the teacher so he would be impressed and know that he was an interested student. He wanted to establish a relationship so the teacher knew he wanted to learn. Ahmed may have noticed that many other students were more complacent and he was not one of those especially when it came to engineering.
Ahmed's enthusiasm should have been nurtured. Should teen-age students interested in engineering be limited to cardboard and tape or wood and nails? He was born into the electronic age and that is where his interest lies.
This is not about the quality of his clock - it is about a 14 year old student trying to get the most out of his education and being handcuffed and carted away for it.
And BTW - visit a school some time and witness how interested many of the students are - not.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I confess to have not read every article on the subject.
Where did you read that he created the clock to impress the teacher and establish a relationship with said teacher?
KT2000
(20,572 posts)to show his teacher on Monday. Based upon my experience attending schools I have seen other kids do this. They are hungry for direct attention from the teacher and they want to learn. I have also seen kids who do that are ridiculed by their peers because it is not cool. Don't know if that was the case here.
kcr
(15,315 posts)To a friend proudly showing off the sweater they hand-knitted: You didn't invent that sweater! That is store bought yarn!
Brushing the crumbs off their shirt after they thoroughly enjoyed a home-made brownie: You didn't invent that brownie! You got all the ingredients at Kroger! From a recipe you found on the internet!
To their kid who gave them a drawing: Crayola crayons?!
To their partner showing off the app they developed: You just used programming languages and developer tools that already existed! You didn't invent that! Why isn't anyone original anymore? Nothing new under the sun, you say? Where do you think galactic material comes from? The Big Bang. Even the universe can't come up with original material.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)If indeed he put together the clock out of individual parts than that is different from simply disassembling a clock and putting it in a pencil case. It seems that what he did was the latter. Which is also cool.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Exactly. So, not getting why you started the OP. Hence, my post with the absolutely valid comparison for people who think it matters.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Namely, that we stand in solidarity with Ahmed and are outraged over the way he was treated - while at the same time wanting to accurately report on the fact that he did not actually make a clock but rather took apart a clock and put it in a pencil case, which is cool - but not quite as ingenious as the former.
It just seemed like some incorrect info was out there - it shouldn't be considered "right wing" to try to correct the record, even if it is not close to the most significant component of the story. You have people on this very thread saying that he added a battery pack to the clock with no evidence to support such a claim.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Bringing up completely irrelevant facts as if those facts change the narrative is advancing an agenda. Not merely pointing out two true facts. It's just like the people who just had to point out that Sandra Bland actually didn't use her turn signal. Or the guy who was shot for texting in a theater shouldn't have been texting.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I take your point.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Just wanted to point that out
kcr
(15,315 posts)clearly insinuating that he intended to make something that looked like a bomb? The "He didn't make a clock" RW talking point has taken off. It is why you're getting the response to your OP that you have been. No one thinks he invented The Next Big Thing In Clocks. Unless you think this controversy is evidence that Clock Fraud is epidemic, I don't see the point other than to provide backup for those who think he's a scheeming little brown skinned terrorist wannabe, and those stupid liberals fell for another one.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I am barely responsible for what I post myself!
kcr
(15,315 posts)I'm just explaining the response you got. And I noticed in another post you say no one is blaming him. Look again.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...I do hold the kid accountable, as well as, and to a greater degree, his parents. Ahmed made a costume prop over the weekend that he knew looked "suspicious" and then made the ill-sussed decision to carry it to school in his backpack, with his father's blessing:
His parents should've been discouraging him from taking his "invention" to school, not encouraging him. There's not an honest person alive who wouldn't be compelled to admit that Ahmed's "clock" looked like an amateur attempt to create a movie prop suitcase bomb. He's 14 years old and that's old enough to understand the theory behind actions and consequences.
“He was like, ‘That’s really nice,’” Ahmed said. “‘I would advise you not to show any other teachers.’”
Ahmed then chose to ignore the advice of his engineering teacher to not tell anyone, by taking his "clock" to subsequent classes and actually removing it from his backpack and plugging it in.
This kind of behavior by Ahmed was no differently received than if he had removed a pressure cooker from his backpack in the weeks following the Boston bombings.
I think it strains credulity to suggest that his parents didn't see the potential for misperception regarding their son's weekend hobby clock project or the wisdom behind carrying it to school in his backpack. I believe the father was fully aware of the potential negative reaction awaiting his son. To what end, I can only guess...
TYY
Enrique
(27,461 posts)then I saw the picture and thought, how is that a clock?
So many people, including Obama, are calling it a clock, so I've been trying to see how it is a clock. It's not a clock, it's something with a clock in it.
Sometimes I have questions about a story, and a reporter will have the same question and try to find an answer. In this case, I've been looking for some reporter to explain how this device is a clock, but no one is doing it that I've seen.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)The "clock" itself and bringing it to school, the school and police actions, and the national/media reaction. I'm just waiting for it to finally die down.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)It wasn't really an engineering project so much as an art project.
Powerful art.
@1:27
"I closed it with a cable, I didn't want to lock it to make it seem like a threat, I used a simple cable so it wouldn't look that much suspicious."
He also invented a commercially made usb port as mentioned in the video.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...his "clock" might be perceived as suspicious. I wonder if his parents advised him about taking his "invention" to school...?
TYY
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Vinca
(50,255 posts)If they thought it was they surely would have evacuated the building.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)And the reaction to him was completely unjust in every respect.
cmos_sue
(23 posts)