"NO. That is so ludicrous": Clinton on whether she started the Obama birther claims in 07/08

[kpete]

Last edited Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:34 PM - Edit history (1)

https://twitter.com/danmericaCNN/status/646674368051941376





updated to add:
wtf???
happened below?

[riversedge]

1. K and R--and thanks

[merrily]

2. Not her personally. However, interns or volunteers from her campaign were separated from her

campaign for this.

[merrily]

10. No.

[merrily]

21. You should read the entire entry. BTW, this is not the only source. And I remember news of the

firings at the time they happened.

In February 2008, a photo of Obama dressed in a turban and other local clothing while on a 2006 visit to an ethnic Somali community in Kenya appeared on the Drudge Report, which attributed it to a Clinton staffer upset at Obama getting more favorable coverage in the media than Clinton. The photo was interpreted as suggesting Muslim garb, and the Obama campaign accused the Clinton campaign of “shameful, offensive fear-mongering”. A spokesman for Clinton replied that the release of the photo had not been sanctioned by the campaign—but added that "We have over 700 people on this campaign, and I’m not in a position to know what each one of them may or may not have done."[227]

E-mails and flyers repeating allegations about Obama and other candidates were distributed to voters in Iowa and South Carolina just before they went to vote for presidential candidates. In Iowa, Obama told his supporters: “You have e-mails saying that I’m a Muslim plant that’s trying to take over America. If you get this e-mail from someone you know, set the record straight.”[228] Sen. Clinton's campaign fired at least two campaign volunteers for forwarding related e-mails about Obama.[229]

Obama's campaign organization responded with a letter from Christian leaders vouching for his Christian faith, as well as with appeals to supporters to help correct any misunderstanding.[230] From November 2007 to January 2008, as part of a drive to promote awareness of his Christian faith, Obama gave interviews to Pat Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network, to Christianity Today and to the religious website Beliefnet.com.[231] Nevertheless, the false belief that Obama is a Muslim has persisted in some key demographics and is among the most frequently cited reasons for opposition to Obama in public polling.[232][233] In polls taken in March and April 2008, between 10 and 15 percent of respondents believed Obama was Muslim.[234]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_presidential_primary_campaign,_2008

[MohRokTah]

22. That had nothing to do with the birther bullshit.

That was about the garb Obama donned while visiting his father's homeland.

[merrily]

24. Um, read paragraph 2 again. And what was the point of circulating a photo in Kenyan garb again?

[merrily]

26. Read paragraph 2 of that wiki again.

The idea that Americans think "Muslim" not "Kenyan" when they see Kenyan garb is novel, though.

[merrily]

30. Sorry, that is just not how I read Paragraph 2. There was a photo and there were allegations about

his origin and rumors and then two people involved with her campaign were fired.

[merrily]

34. Sorry, I still see it differently. Moreover, there was one "racially tinged" event from her

campaign surrogates after another, until it came out of her mouth. Low blows, each and every one of them. Even your position seems to be that it was okay to smear him as a Kenyan Muslim, just not to say he was born there. Whatever.

[zappaman]

38. Of course you do...

Of course you do...

[merrily]

63. Sorry, Mo is wrong on the timing and refuses to budge from photo only to "allegations" I can't help

any of that, though I've sure tried.

[zappaman]

64. Uh huh.

[merrily]

59. Um, no. You didn't prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. Amazing that you don't get that.

[merrily]

66. No, you did not prove it. Your timing is wrong and you refuse to include "allegations" along with

the photo And you refuse to admit the photo of Obama in Kenyan garb had to do with being Kenyan.

[merrily]

71. Bullshit. The wiki link YOU posted shows your timing is wrong.

And this was my view in 2008. It has nothing to do with Sanders. But, keep trying to sell that divisive crap. It makes you look good.

[MohRokTah]

79. Nope, had to put them on ignore.

No longer worth the bother of ever seeing anything they post as they refuse to recognize documented history.

Blame the PUMAs all you want, they went after the birth certificate bullshit like a pitbull on rawhide.

[Scootaloo]

51. Uh, point of order, Mok...

JONES: Understand this: The Clinton campaign does not condone people putting out pictures that they seem to believe are inappropriate. But let me say this: I have no shame or no problem with people looking at Barack Obama in his native clothing, in the clothing of his country.

This is a diverse country and people across America recognize that. I would not personally have done it and we can’t attribute it to anybody in our campaign, but the Clinton campaign does not condone the conduct and we would hope that America is going to have an opportunity or begin to see if we’re supporting a woman or an African-American for President, we ought to be able to support their ability to wear the clothing of their nation.

That is Stephanie Tubbs Jones, speaking as a Clinton surrogate on pat Buchanan's show on the issue of the campaign releasing pictures of Obama in Somali clothing.

This was a day after Clinton had likened Obama to George W. Bush.

[Scootaloo]

56. Rep. Jones was not a "staffer"

[NWHarkness]

31. If Drudge said it, must be true, right?

I've never seen Democrats so accepting of right wing sources as I have of late.

[OilemFirchen]

37. Your excerpt acquits Clinton and her campaign quite nicely.

What's the argument again?

[yellowcanine]

15. If you make the claim you have to back it up - with at least a link.

So that the worthiness of the claim can be assessed.

Otherwise a claim is just a claim.

[yellowcanine]

19. Yes and so what? Still doesn't link to the Clinton Campaign.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/07/02/fact-check-clinton-cruz-trump-birther/29631903/

[merrily]

35. I did post a link.

[merrily]

69. No. Your link and mine both prove my claim.

[merrily]

74. About timing and YOUR link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7195432

[rhett o rick]

80. You use of the ridicule emoticon damages your creditability. Just sayin'. nm

[yellowcanine]

77. Not with your original claim. Are we supposed to look for it?

That is what the edit button allows you to do. If your link was worth anything you would use it.

[merrily]

81. Edit button? What are you going on about?

Mo claims the birther business began after the primary ended. Mo posted a link proving that timing claim wrong.

Mo claims the photo of Obama in Kenyan garb had nothing to do with his being Kenyan. Scootaloo posted a link proving that claim wrong. It had to do with being Kenyan.

I posted a link showing two volunteers or interns got fired for the photo and for circulating allegations and rumors.

Read for comprehension.

[yellowcanine]

84. I am talking about YOUR claim in Post # 2, not Mo's claims.

Own it.

[merrily]

86. Again, read for comprehension.

Mo's claims were made in an attempt to disprove my statement. They were all wrong.

Three links posted proved my claim, one posted by me, one by Mo, one by Scootaloo.

[yellowcanine]

88. When you make a claim, post a link. I am not reading your back and forth with Mo,

or Manny or Jack for that matter. Comprehend that.

[merrily]

123. I posted a link. Mo disputed it, but Mo's attempt to disprove it on various grounds were wrong.

Not rocket science.

[Fred Sanders]

3. This ludicrous "theory" without evidence is being pushed more from the left wing than the right!

And to die, again, a equally magnanimous death because there is this little thing called "evidence" missing.

Rinse and repeat....I get it.

What else is there to throw at this formidable woman and Democratic Party superheroine?

[yellowcanine]

23. Actually Ted Cruz and Donald Trump are pushing it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/07/02/fact-check-clinton-cruz-trump-birther/29631903/


In an interview on June 29 (2015), Sen. Ted Cruz said "the whole birther thing was started by the Hillary Clinton campaign in 2008," and earlier this year, Donald Trump claimed "Hillary Clinton wanted [Obama's] birth certificate. Hillary is a birther."

[riversedge]

82. Add Morning joe and his panel minions

[rhett o rick]

150. Your continued disparaging of the "left wing" is getting old. nm

[Scootaloo]

28. And that's the truth

No one should try to hold Hillary Clinton responsible for the birther garbage.

[Scootaloo]

36. Oh I know. it was basically this...

[merrily]

41. At least two wiki articles associate her campaign with it and she never disavowed it.

And, forgive me, but I think things that come from her campaign surrogates and supporters did not spring full grown from the head of Athena.

[Scootaloo]

46. "Birtherism" is a specific thing, though

It's the demand for Obama's "long form" birth certificate, and a bevy of connected conspiracy theories. There's no doubt that the Clinton campaign pulled all sorts of racist and xenophobic bullshit out against Obama. But demands for his birth certificate weren't among them.

[merrily]

54. I thought it was claiming he was born in Kenya, regardless of whether accompanied by a request for a

birth certificate. And when you speak of the origin or source of something, the origin was not asking to see a birth certificate. That was the result of the rumors, allegations and visual cues that he was born in Kenya.

During the Democratic Party's 2008 presidential primaries, anonymous e-mails from supporters of Hillary Clinton surfaced that questioned Obama's citizenship in an attempt to revive Clinton's faltering primary election campaign. These and numerous other chain e-mails during the subsequent presidential election circulated false rumors about Obama's origin, religion and birth certificate. [26] [27]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories#Origins_of_the_claims

[Scootaloo]

67. The e-mail apparently can't be tied to the campaign, though

...Skirting around Email seems to be a Clinton campaign theme, donnit?

There's a few things going on here.

1) The Clinton campaign absolutely DID engage in nasty, gnarly racist shit against obama. Including the bit with him dressed in Somali clothing, and a surrogate saying "he shouldn't be ashamed to dress in the clothes of his nation!"

2) HOWEVER, the "really born in Kenya and ineligible for office" thing apparently did not come from the campaign itself - rather it cropped up, as bullshit so often does, on the internet, and was passed around in pro-Clinton circles prior to the convention as a last ditch hope. It belly-flopped because Democrats aren't as stupid as Clinton supporters generally hope we are.

3) republicans grabbed all this garbage up into one big pile, and used it as their own thing during the general - and on down the line since.

[merrily]

112. The volunteers or interns were fired for forwarding emails with rumors.

Please see Reply 93. Also, I do not agree that the photo, which came from the campaign, was only about Islam. I know I did not look at that photo and think "Muslim." I looked at it and thought "African." And there is no question where the photo came from.

As far as Clinton donors being responsible for some of it, yes they were. Are we going to be brand new about that?

Most likely, we will never have irrefutable proof that the smear on Sanders that came from that PAC was directly connected to the Hillary campaign, either.

[clarice]

5. Uh-huh.I guess she wiped that rumor clean. With a rag. nt

[clarice]

9. Perhaps...but you DO know the Clinton M.O. Just sayin'. nt

[clarice]

13. Not trying to insinuate...

Just curious how you KNOW this. Source?

[clarice]

16. Confused....why would ANY Dem start such a rumor? nt

[merrily]

39. And when did Hillary disavow it? Or any of the stuff that her allies and surrogates said?

[merrily]

43. I don't agree with your timing claims. She would disavow it if her supporters started it because

it would have been the decent thing to do.

[merrily]

49. That says nothing about when the birther claims started.

[merrily]

57. The crap started BEFORE she conceded. From your link:

During the Democratic Party's 2008 presidential primaries, anonymous e-mails from supporters of Hillary Clinton surfaced that questioned Obama's citizenship in an attempt to revive Clinton's faltering primary election campaign. These and numerous other chain e-mails during the subsequent presidential election circulated false rumors about Obama's origin, religion and birth certificate. [26] [27]

No one tried to revive her "faltering primary campaign" after she conceded. However, even after her concession, she had a negotiation to do with Barack Obama.

[Scootaloo]

72. Do you understand the conflict between these two statements?

"supporters of Hillary Clinton" does not equal Hillary Clinton campaign staffers

And

And Bernie supporters ask me why I'll never vote for the guy.

[merrily]

76. Once again, this started during the Hillary primarcampaign. It was done by two volunteers or

interns, as to photo and allegations, as the link to the wiki on Obama's primary campaign I posted upthread shows and by Clinton supporters, as the link you posted shows.

This was my original post, which you challenged.

Not her personally. However, interns or volunteers from her campaign were separated from her campaign for this.

you did not disprove it by misreading. We're done.

[whatchamacallit]

83. Heheh..

[marmar]

8. Maybe not birther rumors, but.......

Published on
Wednesday, April 30, 2008
by CommonDreams.org


The Clinton Smear Campaign Against Obama
by Stephen Zunes


Unable to find much that Barack Obama himself has said or believes that is particularly alien to the thinking and values of most Americans, Hillary Clinton and her supporters in the media have chosen instead to engage in a campaign of guilt-by-association.

Not surprisingly, right-wing media pundits and prominent Republicans have thrown their weight behind Clinton's efforts, taken advantage of the New York senator's attacks to smear the likely Democratic presidential nominee. For example, North Carolina Republicans are readying a television ad on the eve of that state's primary which includes a photo of Obama and the Rev. Jeremiah Wright together, a video clip of Wright making incendiary comments, with a voiceover telling voters that Obama is "just too extreme for North Carolina."

Clinton's guilt-by-association campaign has even moved to additional degrees of separation. For example, before tens of millions of viewers of the April 16 debate in Philadelphia, Clinton again brought up Obama's alleged "relationships with Louis Farrakhan," despite Obama's repeated and unequivocal denunciations of anti-Semitic statements and other controversial actions by the Black Muslim leader. The apparent extent of Obama's alleged "relationship" with the Nation of Islam leader which prompted Clinton's charge was that a magazine for which Obama's pastor's daughter serves as publisher granted an award to Farrakhan in honor of a successful program he had set up to rehabilitate ex-convicts.

During that same debate, Clinton went so far as to link Obama with the radical Palestinian Islamist group Hamas because the "pastor's pages" section of the weekly bulletin of the church Obama attended once included -- as part of a series of opinion pieces reprinted from various newspapers around the country -- an op-ed column from the Los Angeles Times written by a Hamas leader. Though Obama had already categorically condemned the decision to reprint that article, Clinton told the tens of millions of viewers that "we have a choice who we associate with and who we apparently give some kind of seal of approval to," such as the pastor who -- in Clinton's typically hyperbolic version of events designed to discredit her rival -- was guilty of "giving the church bulletin over to the leader of Hamas."

Hillary Clinton has even attacked Obama for having served on the board of the Chicago anti-poverty group known as the Woods Fund at the same time as former Weather Underground member Bill Ayers. Ayers, who was never convicted of any crime, is now a distinguished professor of education at the University of Illinois-Chicago and served as a former aide to Mayor Richard M. Daley. Clinton apparently saw it as irrelevant that, at the time of Ayers' involvement in the Weather Underground, Obama was just eight years old and living nearly ten thousand miles away in Indonesia. ..................(more)

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2008/04/30/clinton-smear-campaign-against-obama

[trumad]

33. LOL---people in this very thread buy this shit...

I wonder who they are supporting?

[merrily]

45. That Hillary did this kind of thing during her campaign is one of my reasons for NOT supporting her

now. That was how I felt in 2007-09, when I supported Obama. Stop pretending that what I post is because I am a Bernie supporter.

Not sure why some seem obsessed with dividing DU and treating all supporters of Sanders as though they are joined at the hip and plotting. I don't consult anyone before I post.

[trumad]

55. Uh Huh.

[merrily]

58. Another brilliant rebuttal. sigh.

[zappaman]

61. You've actually made me feel sorry for you.

So congrats...I guess.

[Scootaloo]

73. Are you trying to call merrily a Birther, Moh?

[Rex]

85. Probably not since he is almost back in timeoutland.

Amazing who here gets to have timeouts and who gets banned.

[Rex]

89. No repreat disruptors get to stay even after many timeouts.

But you knew this already.

[merrily]

94. I believe the term used on this thread was "like a birther."

[Scootaloo]

96. Wow. And he went and deleted all his posts here

What the fuck was that?

[merrily]

98. He does that on a lot of threads.

[merrily]

97. I don't want you to feel sorry for me so look at Reply 93.

Save your pity for Mo, who has been very busy self deleting posts on this thread.

[merrily]

95. Post by me dated before Sanders informal announcement

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12777603

[mmonk]

75. As an Obama delegate at the time, i still have a long memory.

[merrily]

100. I was not a delegate, but I was very gung ho Obama. And I was posting on a board

where anyone could post, but it was owned by a Hillary supporter and the mods were very anti-Obama.

I followed that primary closely.

[mmonk]

154. +1

[MisterP]

152. having a memory is racist!1111 denying that is only FURTHER PROOF!111

[mmonk]

156. LOL. Sure feels that way these days.

[mcar]

92. Ludicrous indeed

But the Clinton Rules always apply.

[merrily]

93. To sum up:

Last edited Wed Sep 23, 2015, 03:06 PM - Edit history (1)

The rumors that Obama had been born in Kenya bega as Obama was gaining on Hillary.


The photo of Obama in African garb circulated in February 2008 by the Clinton campaign was, as one might imagine, intended to convey something about Obama's being African. His father was an African Muslim, so both were in his ancestry, not only being Muslim.

JONES: Understand this: The Clinton campaign does not condone people putting out pictures that they seem to believe are inappropriate. But let me say this: I have no shame or no problem with people looking at Barack Obama in his native clothing, in the clothing of his country.

This is a diverse country and people across America recognize that. I would not personally have done it and we can’t attribute it to anybody in our campaign, but the Clinton campaign does not condone the conduct and we would hope that America is going to have an opportunity or begin to see if we’re supporting a woman or an African-American for President, we ought to be able to support their ability to wear the clothing of their nation.


That is Stephanie Tubbs Jones, speaking as a Clinton surrogate on pat Buchanan's show on the issue of the campaign releasing pictures of Obama in Somali clothing.

This was a day after Clinton had likened Obama to George W. Bush.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7195400

In February 2008, a photo of Obama dressed in a turban and other local clothing while on a 2006 visit to an ethnic Somali community in Kenya appeared on the Drudge Report, which attributed it to a Clinton staffer upset at Obama getting more favorable coverage in the media than Clinton. The photo was interpreted as suggesting Muslim garb, and the Obama campaign accused the Clinton campaign of “shameful, offensive fear-mongering”. A spokesman for Clinton replied that the release of the photo had not been sanctioned by the campaign—but added that "We have over 700 people on this campaign, and I’m not in a position to know what each one of them may or may not have done."[227]

E- mails and flyers repeating allegations about Obama and other candidates were distributed to voters in Iowa and South Carolina just before they went to vote for presidential candidates.In Iowa, Obama told his supporters: “You have e-mails saying that I’m a Muslim plant that’s trying to take over America. If you get this e-mail from someone you know, set the record straight.”[228] Sen. Clinton's campaign fired at least two campaign volunteers for forwarding related e-mails about Obama.[229]

Obama's campaign organization responded with a letter from Christian leaders vouching for his Christian faith, as well as with appeals to supporters to help correct any misunderstanding.[230] From November 2007 to January 2008, as part of a drive to promote awareness of his Christian faith, Obama gave interviews to Pat Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network, to Christianity Today and to the religious website Beliefnet.com.[231] Nevertheless, the false belief that Obama is a Muslim has persisted in some key demographics and is among the most frequently cited reasons for opposition to Obama in public polling.[232][233] In polls taken in March and April 2008, between 10 and 15 percent of respondents believed Obama was Muslim.[234]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_presidential_primary_campaign,_2008

The emails were not only about Islam. The idea was that Obama was not eligible to be President under the US Constitution because he was not a "natural born citizen." (Therefore, vote for Hillary in the primary, being the implication.

Origins of the (birther) claims

During the Democratic Party's 2008 presidential primaries, anonymous e-mails from supporters of Hillary Clinton surfaced that questioned Obama's citizenship in an attempt to revive Clinton's faltering primary election campaign. These and numerous other chain e-mails during the subsequent presidential election circulated false rumors about Obama's origin, religion and birth certificate. [26] [27]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories

See also: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/02/08/the-secret-history-of-the-birthers.html

It was one of many race based dog whistles during that primary campaign, coming from the Hillary camp and finally from Hillary herself.
11

ETA: In addition to the above quote from Stephanie Tubbs Jones about Kenya, less than 12% of Kenyans are Muslim. Over 82% are Christian. I cannot subscribe to the notion that photos of Obama in African garb were circulated to imply only that he was a Muslim and not to imply he was African.

[trumad]

99. Wiki?

You are using Wiki as a source to smear Hillary. Unreal.---You need to try harder.

According to the article, the theory that Obama was born in Kenya “first emerged in the spring of 2008, as Clinton supporters circulated an anonymous email questioning Obama’s citizenship.”
The second article, which ran several days after the Politico piece, was published by the Telegraph, a British paper, which stated: “An anonymous email circulated by supporters of Mrs Clinton, Mr Obama’s main rival for the party’s nomination, thrust a new allegation into the national spotlight — that he had not been born in Hawaii.”

Both of those stories comport with what we here at FactCheck.org wrote two-and-a-half years earlier, on Nov. 8, 2008: “This claim was first advanced by diehard Hillary Clinton supporters as her campaign for the party’s nomination faded, and has enjoyed a revival among John McCain’s partisans as he fell substantially behind Obama in public opinion polls.”

Claims about Obama’s birthplace appeared in chain emails bouncing around the Web, and one of the first lawsuits over Obama’s birth certificate was filed by Philip Berg, a former deputy Pennsylvania attorney general and a self-described “moderate to liberal” who supported Clinton.
But none of those stories suggests any link between the Clinton campaign, let alone Clinton herself, and the advocacy of theories questioning Obama’s birth in Hawaii.

One of the authors of the Politico story, Byron Tau, now a reporter for the Wall Street Journal, told FactCheck.org via email that “we never found any links between the Clinton campaign and the rumors in 2008.”

The other coauthor of the Politico story, Ben Smith, now the editor-in-chief of BuzzFeed, said in a May 2013 interview on MSNBC that the conspiracy theories traced back to “some of [Hillary Clinton’s] passionate supporters,” during the final throes of Clinton’s 2008 campaign. But he said they did not come from “Clinton herself or her staff.”

Josh Schwerin, a spokesman for the Clinton campaign, said Cruz’s claim is false. “The Clinton campaign never suggested that President Obama was not born here,” Schwerin wrote to us in an email.
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hillary-clinton-the-original-birther/

[merrily]

101. It's not the only source by any means, but please feel free to provide other links.

And wiki cites its sources, so feel free to click on the links in the wiki articles as well.

Psst. Emoticons are not a rebuttal, either.

[trumad]

102. Edited...

Again show some fucking proof that Hillary and her campaign was involved with this---or it's just a bullshit smear.

[merrily]

104. Links and quotes provided. Ball in your court to refute. Please see Reply 93 and 101. Thanks.

Psst. Replacing your rolling emoticons with some curses is not a rebuttal either.

[trumad]

106. Bullshit the balls in my court.

Your links are garbage. Prove that Hillary was behind this---Prove it.

You can't.

Balls in my court my ass.

[merrily]

108. And your posts are what? You think the links are all garbage? Prove it.

I don't have to keep providing proof until you say you approve the link, which you'll never do anyway. That's ridiculous.

Prove the information wrong. You won't disprove what those links say because you can't. So, we're done.

[trumad]

109. Prove it---I don't have to prove shit.

Show me a link to a reputable source that says Hillary was behind the birther shit. Come on---show me.

[merrily]

120. Wait. You're asking me to cite more than one source for something I never said?

Gee, I wish you'd said that sooner. See Replies 2, 93 and 118.

[trumad]

122. I'm asking you to give me a proper link proving your shit.

Wiki?

[Oilwellian]

147. A month later, after the photo and emails were released

Hillary appeared on 60 Minutes claiming "no way was Obama a Muslim!" Toward the end though, she just couldn't help but stoke the then rampant rumors her staff helped create, and imparted doubt in Obama's word that he was a Christian.

Some of us have long memories.

://

[arcane1]

151. "in the clothing of his country" seems to say it all n/t

[MohRokTah]

103. FactCheck.org says, NO EVIDENCE CLINTON CAMPAIGN STARTED BIRTHER MOVEMENT.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hillary-clinton-the-original-birther/

FactCheck.org was the first to actually take photographs of the birth certificate which appeared digitally on DailyKos on June 12, 2008. Prior to that post by Markos Moulitsas, the ONLY demand to see a birth certificate came from Jim Geraghty to prove whether or not Barack Obama's real middle name was "Muhammed" and prove whether or not his real first name was "Barry".

The movement demanding the Long Form Birth Certificate, or the "Birther Movement", did not begin until after the June 12, 2008 posting by Markos Moulitsas, which was a full week AFTER Hillary Clinton had conceded the campaign and endorsed Barack Obama.

The first Birther lawsuit was filed by Philip Berg on August 21, 2008, more than 10 weeks after Hillary Clinton had conceded and endorsed Barack Obama.

NOTE: Due to concerns over alert swarming, I will not respond to any responses to this post.

EDITED: I really do not want to be alert swarmed by certain supporters of a certain candidate by refuting what are outright lies being posted within this thread.

EDITED X2: This article explains precisely what went on with the two staffers. It is dated MArch 28, 2008 and is titled Obama Photo in Turban, Robe Causes Stir :

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/25/obama-photo-in-turban-rob_n_88272.html

EDITED X3: There are no instances of the term "Birther" prior to the release of the short form birth certificate. That term would not be coined for months after the publication of the birth certificate and was related exclusively to the call for the "Long Form Birth Certificate" by rightwing nuts.

[trumad]

105. I'll respond....

The Republicans started this shit and some supporters of a certain white haired man are jumping right in with this unproven smear.

Shame on them for doing that. Goes to show that they will go to any length to tear this woman down.

I really love Bernie but am beginning to despise some of his supporters.

[merrily]

116. And you were linked to a post that showed my opinion has nothing to do with Sanders.

Shame on them for doing that. Goes to show that they will go to any length to tear this woman down.

I really love Bernie but am beginning to despise some of his supporters.

Irony meter broke.

[merrily]

107. It's not only about demands for a long form birth certificate, ffs. It's about implying that

he was born in Kenya. We've covered that already.

And two people who worked for Hillary's campaign were fired for doing that.

[trumad]

111. Here's another fucking link from Salon blowing your shit apart.

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/21/the_rights_dumbest_birther_meme_hillary_clinton_started_it/

[merrily]

114. My statements had nothing to do with the Mark Penn, so you blew nothing apart. But, from your link:

Back in early 2007, Clinton’s campaign strategist Mark Penn circulated ideas for attacking Obama, who had just announced his candidacy, during the primaries. Penn suggested casting Obama’s peripatetic and diverse childhood in a negative light, writing in a strategy memo:

[H]is roots to basic American values and culture are at best limited. I cannot imagine America electing a president during a time of war who is not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and his values… Let’s explicitly own ‘American’ in our programs, the speeches and the values. He doesn’t.

Clinton supporters also circulated the famous photos of Obama on a trip to his father’s homeland of Kenya in 2006, clad in traditional tribal garb over his Western clothes. The overall effect was to “Otherize” the then-Senator, to cast him as being somehow less than fully American. It was a low-down attack, one that betrayed either cold-blooded calculation or desperation on the part of the Clinton campaign. It was also not exactly new, having been used in some form by a serial Republican Senate candidate named Andy Martin to smear Obama after his breakout speech at the 2004 DNC convention in Boston and survived in various permutations afterwards.

Nice.

[trumad]

124. Where is the birther shit?

[trumad]

113. "And two people who worked for Hillary's campaign were fired for doing that".

Please provide a proper link for that statement. And wiki ain't gonna cut it.

[merrily]

115. So sorry that wiki and the sources cited by wiki give you a sad. The cure is to refute.

[trumad]

117. Wow!

So that's your link. Wiki. You are using Wiki to offer proof that Hillary is a birther.

You are so fucking busted.

[merrily]

118. No, I used those links to show two people were fired from her campaign for circulating stuff that

gave rise to the Kenyan claims, which is all I've claimed. I specifically said something like "not Hillary, but two volunteers or interns were fired from her campaign."

If to you, that means I accused Hillary, I cannot help you.

[trumad]

125. Where is the birther shit?

Where does it say he's not an American?

[merrily]

128. That is explained in Reply 93. Reply 2, 93 and 118 stand.

If you don't like them or the sources cited, too bad. I'm beyond done.

[trumad]

131. No it's not.

Prove to me that Hillary started the birther shit.

[merrily]

133. As previously stated, I never said that and, if you don't like what I did say in replies 2, 93

and 118, that's too bad. This is the last reply from me to you about this.

[trumad]

134. Yep---can't prove it.

Nice smear job

[bettyellen]

119. Let's hope whoever started the Vince Foster thread here isn't helping out Sanders in any capacity...

Because then you'd be blaming Sanders for that bit of bullshit, right? This is what people hate about politics, the bullshit smears.

[Mike Nelson]

110. Thank you...

... DU should not be "Morning Joe" or "FOX and friends" - they are enough.

[Truprogressive85]

121. Is HRC saying the David Plouffe's statement in 08 is a lie than ?

One of the many reasons African Americans shifted their to Obama even though she was the "household name"

[trumad]

126. Where is the birther shit?

You guy's don't have shit.

[Truprogressive85]

129. Excuse me

You telling me as African American the nasty racial and dog whistle politics HRC campaign against Sen. Obama was running was all lies ?

[trumad]

130. Where is the birther shit?

[Truprogressive85]

135. People posted links on Mark Penn

[trumad]

136. God Damn it...

Can one fucking person show me where a member of Hillary's staff or Hillary said Obama wasn't born in America?

One fucking person?

[Truprogressive85]

137. Mr. 3am

To question one's roots is not a problem for you huh ?

Was he not part of the Clinton Campaign in 2008 ?


Anyway that's history people saw past her bs and choose Sen. Obama

[trumad]

138. Ok

so you can't show me. Thought so.

[Truprogressive85]

139. the memo is not enough

repeat yourself till you turn blue I don't give two shits

If you don't read the links provided that's on you lol

[trumad]

140. Show me where a member of her staff---or Hillary said he wasn't born in America.

I'm waiting...can you show me yes or no?

[Truprogressive85]

142. Show you what ? It was posted up to you to read

AA ( including me) saw past dog whistles and pandering and choose the better candidate (Obama)

[trumad]

143. Oh it was?

Well maybe I missed it---can you help me out and show me the link proving Hillary or her staff stated Obama wasn't born in America.

I'd appreciate your help if you could provide that for me.

[Truprogressive85]

144. Re read the thread enjoy

Let me sit back and take in this beautiful fall day

[trumad]

145. Another one who tucks tail and runs...

Your my second today who failed to show me that Hillary or her staff said Obama wasn't born in America.

I asked for simple proof of that and no one can show me.

What a shitty smear job.

[ReactFlux]

160. Lame

You do know what implied means don't you?

Well even if you don't others do and they don't appreciate her low ball tactics nor forget.

[trumad]

161. Uh huh

[ReactFlux]

159. She took the low road in her campaign

We all know it, it's well documented, throwing a public tantrum won't make it go away, so please, settle down.

[trumad]

162. Show me the fucking proof

She or her staff said Obama wasn't born in America. You can't and no one else can.

[randys1]

127. Not sure who did what, but wont it be exciting when President Cruz announces

his appointment to the SC

Roy Moore.

[merrily]

132. Still working on the primary, in which, as you have posted many times, you support Senator Sanders.

[Motown_Johnny]

141. No confrontation like that... Hmm.....

"We do have to trust our leaders and what they say."

[trumad]

146. What's that got to do with this thread?

[Motown_Johnny]

148. She claimed to have no confrontation with Obama like that.

In my opinion, the confrontation in the video is similar enough to be relevant.

[trumad]

149. Everyone has an opinion...

[Motown_Johnny]

153. You see no similarities?

It is a grotesque exaggeration directed at her opponent during the primary.

You see no similarity at all?




Not that I think she started the birther crap.

[trumad]

157. Nothing to do with this.

[Motown_Johnny]

158. So is her statement that she had no confrontation like that

a true one or not?

Is her making a false statement (which it appears to me she did) something that we just ignore? Or do we listen to what was said in that video, that "We do have to trust our leaders and what they say"?

If you are arguing that Hillary making a false statement is something that should be ignored then you and I have very different priorities.

[trumad]

163. Nice try

I've argued throughout this thread that it's bullshit that she or her staff said that Obama wasn't born in America. It's you and others who are trying to change the subject because you ain't got shit regarding this birther bullshit.

[MohRokTah]

164. I'm happy to see that either you were not alert stormed

or the storm did not result in any random juries that would have 4 assholes voting to hide.

[trumad]

165. I was very careful...

I'm certain I was alerted on in this thread.

[MohRokTah]

166. Careful doesn't always cut it.

Odds are eventually they'll get a jury with four voting to hide, especially since their numbers are so large on DU.

[trumad]

167. You're telling me

[geek75]

155. Republicans started it