Ruth Bader Ginsburg attended Francis's Congressional address. Cafeteria Catholics Scalia,

[pnwmom]

Thomas, and Alito skipped it.

(P.S. Almost all Catholics and Christians select from the "cafeteria" -- adopting some teachings and practices but not all. But the right-wing likes to fling the term at the liberals.)

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/pope-francis-supreme-court-214013

[CTyankee]

1. Ginsburg appears to have white gloves on. What gives with that?

[hack89]

6. She is know for wearing them. It is her trademark. nt

[gateley]

2. Justice Ginsburg gives respect where it is due. Thomas, et al, don't. nt

[procon]

3. Don't they understand that they are representatives of the US government, NOT

the Republican Party? Even the GOP congress managed to act like adults and be respectful, but these petty, narcissist, self-absorbed old men are on a par with that low class, attention hog, Kentucky clerk who set herself above everything for fame and glory.

I suppose, on a somewhat positive note, at least these justices have dropped any pretense of being non-partisan and unbiased, unzipped their flies and unfurled their true colors in a contemptuous insult to every American.

[MohRokTah]

4. Scalia is too busy worrying that the SCOTUS will overturn the Death Penalty to attend.

Something his Pope would welcome:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/antonin-scalia-death-penalty

[pnwmom]

5. Yes, and the Pope mentioned his opposition to the death penalty in the speech. n/t

[Hortensis]

17. Good points. Not attending is a remarkable political statement.

It wouldn't be because they're afraid of lightning.

[pintobean]

7. Normally, we would applaud the separation of church and state.

I don't think the Pope belongs there.

[Le Taz Hot]

8. Besides being the papal whateveritis

he's also a head of state so I can see it. And I say that as an atheist.

[whatthehey]

10. Yes but the trouble with that facile cliche

is that he never speaks as a head of state, but as a hypocritical moral arbiter steeped in theocracy. When heads of other countries give speeches to Congress they speak about geopolitics, treaties, threats to peace and the like. They don't...well...pontificate on what a putative god wants us to do in regard to ethics and morality.

[Codeine]

11. Goddamn, that was well-stated.

Nicely done.

[LuvNewcastle]

9. I agree.

He never should have been asked to speak.

[pnwmom]

15. Boehner asked John Paul to speak, and he declined. Then he asked Benedict to speak,

and he agreed -- but then retired.

Then Pope Francis agreed to take Benedict's place.

I think Boehner got a little more than he'd planned on.

[Codeine]

12. Pope McDreamy gets a pass.

Not for any particular reason, mind you.

[pnwmom]

13. He is the head of a city-state that is in the United Nations, not just a religious leader. n/t

[Codeine]

14. A convenient political fiction. nt

[Hortensis]

18. Agree, as both he is a world leader and appropriate to honr. IF we

did not respect heads of state who were also religious leaders, we'd be...W-snubbing a good part of the international community again. Secretly communicating with Iran's Supreme Leader via Moscow.

[pintobean]

20. We're talking about addressing congress.

[Hortensis]

21. Yes. Belief in the separation of church and state and the sanctity of the vote

are about as close as I get to religion, Pinto, but IMO discriminating among foreign leaders on the basis of religion would hardly reflect the respect for people's right to hold different beliefs that freedom of religion in action requires.

[pintobean]

22. If it was John Paul, DU would be shitting bricks

to build the wall of separation. Since this guy is saying some things we like, it's all cool.

[pintobean]

19. Landlocked 110 acres, population 842

Where every citizen and follower is also a citizen of another country, and represented as such.

[pnwmom]

23. Since when does "landlocked" make a political entity less political? By treaty, it governs itself.nt

[Drahthaardogs]

46. And the leader of 1.2 Billion People

Who wields power that most prime ministers could only dream of.

Many things is il Papa. Marginalized is not one of them.

[yeoman6987]

51. Oh well. I disagree.

We had many different religious leaders attend congress. Catholics had one time. I applaud it. The pope did great all 3 days.


I don't remember any complaints when the Dalia lama spoke.

[PeaceNikki]

16. According to canon law, Catholics cannot pick and choose from the tenets of their religion.

If you consider yourself a Catholic, you owe it to yourself take a hard look at the beliefs required by your Church’s religious law. Arguably the most repellent precept in canon law is also the most important for people claiming to be Catholic:
“. . . religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals . . . therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.” Canon 752.

According to that law, there is no such thing as a “cafeteria Catholic.”

[pnwmom]

24. I love it when outsiders turn into Catholic fundamentalists for the purposes of their critique.

Almost all Catholics are -- in substance -- cafeteria Catholics, though the term is usually used only by right-wingers to describe liberal Catholics. However, the RWers are just as selective in the "tenets" they espouse.

(And it is also sometimes used by disparaging non-'Catholics who buy the right-wingers view that the RWers are the real Catholics -- not people like Dorothy Day and Thomas Merton.)

[PeaceNikki]

25. lol, it's clear as day in YOUR Canon Law. I don't need to be a fundy to know that, only have the

ability to read. It's actually fairly common that educated atheists know more about religion that the religious. That always cracks me up, too!

If you use birth control, you’re not a Catholic. If you don’t believe in magic, you’re not a Catholic. If you find cannibalism abhorrent, or even slightly distasteful, you’re not a Catholic. And that’s OK! But now it’s time to find the courage to stand up and tell the world, “I’m not a Catholic.”

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/freethoughtnow/dear-american-catholics-stop-calling-yourself-catholic-and-quit-the-church/

[pnwmom]

26. More Catholics than Americans in general use artificial birth control, so it's pretty ridiculous

for outsiders to inform us that makes us non-catholics.

But it shows the level of your thinking . . . black and white, not capable of dealing with shades of gray.

[Johonny]

31. Catholics are allowed to break cannon

They just have to ask for forgiveness. You can eat meat during lent. If the church expected people to be perfect there'd be no confessional. Instead there is a confessional and forgiveness in the church. The new Pope is heavily expressing forgiveness and charity over oppression in terms of abortion and birth control.

[pnwmom]

49. And, in the real world, most Catholics very rarely go to Confession.

They can and do say an Act of Contrition by themselves, whether that is official Church policy or not.

[Drahthaardogs]

48. She does not understand diddly, she reads the Canons and think she understands, but she does not.

Why bother engaging her? She is obviously anti-Catholic and is wrong more often than she is right when it comes to Dogma, the Catechsim, and Canon Law. Right now, she is basically citing law that talks of loyalty to the Magisterium, but she does not know or understand what the Magisterium is.

[pnwmom]

50. You're right, of course. n/t

[Demit]

28. "If you use birth control, you’re not a Catholic." This is utterly ridiculous.

[PeaceNikki]

29. I didn't write Canon Law, neither did you.

[pnwmom]

32. Please cite the statute in Canon law that says if you don't follow a particular "tenet"

you are not Catholic.

By that definition, there are virtually no Catholics -- which is why there is no such statute.

If there's one thing every Catholic believes, it's that all people fail in some way, every day.

[Demit]

41. But I was taught by nuns & priests for 12 years, and you weren't.

I was baptized Catholic; you weren't. You are talking through your hat. I don't care how much you have read. You don't know what you are talking about. You are like someone who has read all about how to play the piano and thinks that's all there is to it.

[PeaceNikki]

42. Lol. Please hold while I note your concern....

[Demit]

43. I'm not concerned. I'm mocking you.

[PeaceNikki]

44. lol

[PeaceNikki]

30. Claiming birth control is bad or evil is fucking dangerous.

[kwassa]

33. Catholics won't conform to your opinion of them.

Speaking as a non-Catholic former employee of Catholic Charities, I know the Catholic Church does a lot of good in the world, despite what you think.

[PeaceNikki]

34. And I ask Catholics to stop trying to get a secular society to conform to their dogma.

Typically the good they do is even wrapped in it. The takeover of health care by the RCC is the perfect example.

Claiming birth control is bad or evil is fucking dangerous. It's a contributing factor to poverty and climate change. The church needs to evolve or continue to be called out as hypocritical misogynistis.

[kwassa]

35. Call them out all you want.

They will still do a lot of good in the world.

[PeaceNikki]

36. K.

[mhatrw]

38. Have you ever even heard of Liberation Theology?

Somehow I doubt it.

[PeaceNikki]

40. Absolutely. Have you ever heard of St. John's School for the Deaf?

[mhatrw]

37. Again, if you don't ascribe to one Catholic law, why must you

ascribe to the all-or-nothing Catholic law? Why can't you choose not to put that one on your plate, either? You have never explained your rationale for why the all-or-nothing law cannot be ignored along with other outdated tenants.

[PeaceNikki]

39. It's their law, not mine.

“. . . [A] religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals . . . therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.” Canon 752.

This anti-human, totalitarian sentiment lies at the heart of all religions, but one rarely sees it so clearly stated. This also means that Catholics cannot pick and choose from the tenets of their religion. According to that law, there is no such thing as a “cafeteria Catholic.”

Not only must Catholics believe all church doctrines, if you consider yourself a Catholic you are bound to avoid any contrary doctrines:

“A person must believe with divine and Catholic faith all those things contained in the word of God, written or handed on, that is, in the one deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and at the same time proposed as divinely revealed . . . all are bound to avoid any doctrines whatsoever contrary to them.” Canon 750, §1.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/freethoughtnow/dear-american-catholics-stop-calling-yourself-catholic-and-quit-the-church/

[mhatrw]

52. That's not an explanation. Censuring abortion is also one of their laws.

If you don't follow this law and you still self-identify as a Catholic, you are obviously not following the "you cannot choose your tenets" law, either.

It's not as if you are a Democratic presidential candidate who is trying to debate Clinton but is coming up against the DNC's exclusion clause.

[Demit]

27. Really. I wonder what they did before Google.

[Drahthaardogs]

47. You are either loyal to the Magesterium or you are not.

I have seen your responses on the Pope though, and I while I believe you researched the Canon Law, I don't think you actually know what it means.