I'm no fan of violence. But I cannot say this bully did not have it coming.

[Glassunion]

Last edited Fri Sep 25, 2015, 04:00 PM - Edit history (1)

Bully receives instant justice after punching a blind boy.

On Edit: There is an update to this story here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7202458

[niyad]

1. that guy was kind. I wouldn't have gone for the face!

[Glassunion]

2. He did lay out the kid pretty go though. It seemed like a solid blindside.

[niyad]

3. you are correct. he did lay that little thug out well.

[AllFieldsRequired]

4. Dear god, what has happened to the human race.

[Glassunion]

5. There will always be assholes. We've had them for 10's of thousands of years.

Nice to see someone had this kid's back.

The bully's parents must be proud.

[Journeyman]

9. You truly need to read more. History and literature would be a good start . . .

then the arseholes of the world would not surprise you as much anymore and rather than lament our condition you could seek means to rectify it.

[AllFieldsRequired]

10. What a truly obnoxious and insulting remark.

[LanternWaste]

17. No worries. It often happens that when when we are being chastised for a specific question

No worries. One may presume it's simply a self-validating mechanism, as they perceive no one else really considers them clever or worthy of note.

[AllFieldsRequired]

18. You should be a politician

I think you could insult someone and they wouldnt even know it, you have a gift.

But thank you for having the humanity to see our interchange and respond.

You must be a liberal.

[chervilant]

58. Indeed,

which makes my second addition to my IL from this OP.

I have a sight impaired client who uses a cane and depends on me to navigate through the groceries and pharmacy when running errands. I am constantly amazed and dismayed by how many people expect my client to move out of their way so they can continue their shopping uninterrupted.

[Rex]

6. I am glad someone stopped him, I wonder if he will think hard upon his future dealing with others?

One can hope.

[Glassunion]

8. After that punch, I don't think he'll be doing any hard thinking for a while.

That other kid just knocked a full semester of algebra out of his head. You can see it leaking out.

[Scootaloo]

28. Yup, he's going all "two plus two equals peanut butter" right now

[quickesst]

7. Just when you think....

...you're bad, someone comes along to remind you that you're not. Short and sweet. The kid got off easy.

[Warpy]

11. Hard to say if the bully learned anything from this

Usually the bully has to get a bloody nose from one of his victims to understand that people can be pushed only so far, then they don't care if they get hurt as long as they hurt him.

This little shit's parents are likely bullies, themselves, and will probably raise all sorts of legal hell over this video.

[Glassunion]

16. I'm sure...

The video of him getting knocked on his ass, will cause great emotional damage and he'll sue. Remember that cop who hosed down that group of people with pepper spray? IIRC he either sued or claimed disability.

[Journeyman]

12. The next 12 seconds of the exchange can be seen here . . .

[Glassunion]

13. Awesome. Thanks

[Rex]

14. Good to see the kid that knocked him down, go over and try to help him back up.

I hope the bully learned his lesson and then some.

[Islandurp]

15. Actually he went over to the other kids unconscious form to talk shit to it.

Two other kids helped him back up.

[DirkGently]

19. Emotionally kind of satisfying, but probably ill-advised.

The big kid could have stopped the whole thing with a word, or could have spun the offending bully around and scared him off. He looked to have 50 pounds on the two other kids put together.

It's gratifying to see a bully going from frightening a helpless person to being frightened and helpless, but that blindside wallop actually could have killed him pretty easily, especially the way he fell straight onto the pavement. He looks like he lost consciousness, and it wouldn't be surprising if he had a bad concussion or worse. Didn't look like he knew where he was or what was happening.

I question whether the bully kid learns anything from this other than to make absolutely sure he has superior force on his side before hurting someone for no reason.

[snooper2]

20. Bully's need the asses kicked

problem is sometimes they turn into cops

[DirkGently]

21. And if the "hero" kid had killed him?

That was like a man punching a child *from behind*. I get that kids don't fully understand their own strength, but the level of sheer force employed there could have put the "bully" in the hospital or the morgue.

I don't think endorsing that is a great idea.

[Glassunion]

26. And if the bully had killed the visually impared kid?

The visually impaired kid had no effective means to defend himself, and as the video shows was completely unaware of where the next blow was coming from. He could have easily been punched to the ground and hit his head.

[DirkGently]

27. No. There was no life / death threat

Sorry. Kids of equal size were standing flailing at each other. 200+ lb athlete dry gulches to the back of the head, knocking someone out cold.

Not the same.

[Glassunion]

33. A couple of things

1. The visually impaired kid was not the same size as his attacker. His attacker has about 6 inches on him.
2. They were not "flailing" at each other. The blind kid was struggling to keep his feet while a bigger kid used his face as a punching bag.

[DirkGently]

35. Not the same as crushing someone from behind. At all.

No one was getting killed. And there is no reason whatever to think the giant football player couldn't have intervened short of a cowardly, brutal ambush from behind that could have killed someone.

There is not the slightest reason to thing the huge football player needed crush the back of someone's skull from behind to break up two skinny kids slapping each other.

Again, if a cop had broken up a fight this way, he'd be halfway to prison by now.

[GummyBearz]

41. If a cop did this he would have arrested the skinny bully after knocking him out

Could the football player have gone easier on the skinny bully? Yes.

If you start using violence, can someone else end it with violence. Yes.

Now I will rewatch the video a few more times to make sure seeing justice served doesn't get old.

[Glassunion]

44. +1

"Now I will rewatch the video a few more times to make sure seeing justice served doesn't get old."

[Katashi_itto]

82. Defending a bully of someone totally helpless,

a bully who is physically assaulting a blind person

Pathetic

[chervilant]

55. So rolling my eyes over here...

OMG!!! What if; what if?!?

You must have a pretty big spoon, as much as you like to stir...

(I thought I had you on my IL -- I'll remedy that oversight quick, fast and in a hurry.)

[Glassunion]

23. Personally I feel the response was appropriate.

We are sitting here, in front of our keyboards, watching a video, and having ample time to speculate on all of the possible courses of action that could possibly have taken place with the comfort of hindsight.

That video was very short, and very confusing. But after reading other comments, and watching the video several times, it makes it difficult to put yourself in those shoes, because you have had the time to analyze the situation from an outside perspective.

The kid reacted immediately to his visually impaired friend being attacked. From the moment he witnessed the attack to the moment he stopped it was probably less than 3 seconds. When someone is being actively attacked, and you have decided to intervene, there is not much time to weigh and balance all of the possible reactions.

I would not fault this kid if he pulled him off and tossed him to the ground, punched him in the head, or roundhouse kicked him in the groin. Most likely, he saw his friend being attacked, and his only, all encompassing thought was simply "Do something". There is not room for much else once you are in that state of mind.

[DirkGently]

25. And yet we crucify cops for exactly that

"Why couldn't they have just tackled the person?"

"Why did the big man hit the small suspect 29 times with a stick?"

And we're right to complain. Justifiable force doesn't mean maximum force in every case.

If you're going to appoint yourself constable, you don't get to go apeshit in doling out whatever justice occurs to you in the moment.

If you can't stop a child's pitty pat fight without crushing the back of someone's skull from behind, find someone who can.

[Glassunion]

29. This was not maximum force. The kid met force with exactly the same force.

We "crucify" cops when they escalate force beyond what is necessary. This is not a case of someone having their throat crushed for selling individual cigarettes, or and unarmed person being shot for getting their license after being ordered to do so, or a bunch of cops jumping on a kid for stepping of the sidewalk. We "crucify" the cops when the use lethal of physical force to address non violent situations. Your analogy is a non sequitur.

This is a case of a kid getting punched in the head, because he was punching a blind kid in the head.

[DirkGently]

32. Yet only one person was knocked unconscious?

As for not liking the analogy, a cop would be out of a job, into a lawsuit, and sweating prison for making a move like that, without question.

And you're actually arguing that clubbing someone in the back of the head so they fall unconscious to the sidewalk is a more appropriate use of force than a chokehold? Do you think there might be a reason hitting someone in the back of the head is illegal in all combat sports, even when chokeholds are allowed?

You're stretching here because you're convinced a bad kid was punished. But what if the avenger kid had his facts wrong? He didn't say a word, didn't ask anyone what was going on. He walked up on a fairly minor situation and brutally ambushed someone in a way that could have easily crippled or killed him.

[Glassunion]

36. You don't know if he was knocked unconscious. Although it did look like he had to wait for his

system to reboot.

A cop would get away with this, if they were witnessing an attack.

Again you are comparing lethal force for non violent offenses with non-lethal force used in a violent situation.

I'm stretching? Really?
Fact: The smaller of the kids is blind
Fact: The person attacking the smaller kid was punching him in the face. Repeatedly.
Fact: The person who stopped it, knew for a fact that a blind kid was being used as a punching bag.

Given those three facts, why would you ask what's going on? The only one who sees it as minor is you. By the way. Punching a blind kid in the face repeatedly is a brutal ambush. They cannot see the punches coming.

[DirkGently]

39. Sorry, all that is utter nonsense.

1. Yes, the kid was clearly knocked out. The "system reboot" is what a knockout looks like. He has a concussion.

2. No, the vision impaired kid was not getting killed. That is ridiculous.

3. The person who stopped it could have even more quickly and easily done a million other things other than try to knock someone's head completely off from behind, which is extremely dangerous and reckless, and could have done gigantic, permanent damage, which was not at all what was going on in the very slow, very preliminary fight between the two other kids.

It was a giant, potentially lethal overreaction.

[Glassunion]

43. I'd disagree.

1. Again, you don't know he was knocked out. Sure he got his bell rung, but you don't know that for a fact he was knocked out.

2. I never said he was getting killed. However, to your point that the bully "could" have been killed by the 3rd kid, so "could" the blind kid. If you watch that video, that blind kid wanted nothing to do with being punched in the face repeatedly.


3. You are Monday Morning Quarterbacking this.

[DirkGently]

56. It was a gigantic, reckless escalation in force.

This kid could have done a thousand other things to defend his friend short of blindside shot to the back of the skull, which, whether it worked out that way or not, is a pretty good way to kill someone.

When the cops shoot, we are enraged if we think they could have Tazed. When they Taze, we want to know why they didn't tackle. When they tackle, we want to know if they asked for compliance first.

But you are perfectly okay with a third party walking up to a fight and striking a blindside blow to the back of the head of a person a fraction of his size because you're not absolutely positive it knocked him fully unconscious?

It's hard to read your logic here as anything but deciding that this particular person deserved to be savagely injured and just wanting to feel good about it.

If this was your kid being potentially comatose or paralyzed by a much larger child sucker punching him in the back of the head so hard so hard he lost consciousness (I know, we can't be "sure&quot I think you'd react differently.

[Glassunion]

62. You are still Monday Morning Quarterbacking.

In the less than three seconds this kid reacted in, one does not have time, nor the state of mind to go over the "thousand other things". Also... just to nitpick, it was not the back of the head, but the side of the head.

You are also intentionally not getting the point. Our point is when the cops use lethal force to respond to a non-violent situation, yes we become upset. When they escalate something that is not even a felony, to the point where someone dies, we have every right to be pissed.

"But you are perfectly okay with a third party walking up to a fight and striking a blindside blow to the back of the head of a person a fraction of his size because you're not absolutely positive it knocked him fully unconscious?" - I am perfectly okay with a person, defending a person who is unable to defend themselves from a larger person.

He was not "savagely injured". The kid walked away from it, was arrested and then sent home with his parents. No mention of so much as a hospital visit. You are inventing the "savagely injured".

If this was my kid, and he was physically assaulting a blind person, and he got his bell rung by a football player, then arrested... I'd first make sure he was okay, then let him spend the night in jail, while I profusely apologized to that poor kids parents. I'd then go and apologize to the parents of the kid who punched my kid. Then, my kid would spend his free time painting that family's house, mowing their lawn, taking out their garbage, tuning their car, patching their driveway, etc... Until I feel that he is properly humbled by the experience.

[DirkGently]

63. My MMQB is as legitimate as yours, Glassunion.

As someone has pointed out downthread, we are reacting to a short video. I see a reaction to a bully potentially escalating to a reckless level of violence. You see a meanie getting the thrashing he deserved.

Neither of us were there or know any more than what we can see, but my view is not somehow less than yours because you deem it so.

[Travis_0004]

38. Who cares

Honestly, I dont care if a bully got hit. I dont think one punch from a kid is going to kill or cripple somebody.

[DirkGently]

45. That kind of blow is often lethal.

The particular features of this "fight" are relevant

1. The kid dishing out the blow was a large athlete. This was a man-sized kid hitting a kid-sized kid. He probably doesn't fully appreciate what that means yet, but it matters.

2. A blindside attack is not a fight. It's an ambush, and people get vastly more injured when they have no ability to react or position themselves. It is extremely, extremely dangerous to hit someone who is not looking. It's relatively rare for anyone in a fight to take the full, maximum force of a blow. They lean or dodge or block to one degree or another. A blindside shot is like someone punching their fist through a wall.

3. Back of the head / sidewalk below. The back of the head is an illegal target in every kind of combat sport. This is where the skull meets the neck, you can do tremendous damage striking that area of the body. And falling onto a hard surface is how many people severely injured by "one lucky punch" end up being crippled or killed. Dropping full force onto pavement will crack a human skull.

Again, I'm not missing that it looks like a terrible kid was the one who got hurt. But I don't think it's a great idea to cheer kids walking up behind someone and potentially crushing their skulls in because they feel the person is a bully.

[Scootaloo]

48. It wasn't lethal. and there were no weapons involved. And this isn't boxing or MMA

You need to stop sniffing about the "what ifs" and start looking at the what is.

And it's not an "ambush" for fuck's sake. it's not like someone followed the kid home and jumped him from behind his bushes or something. It was a bigger kid intervening on behalf of a smaller, blind kid.

[Travis_0004]

52. First off I'm not against a blindside hit

In self defense of oneself or others its justified.

And a puch anywhere is almost never fatal. Even if it was, I have no problem with somebody throwing a punch is defense of another, if you want to be a bully then you can't complain if you get punched or the consequences that follow.

[Glassunion]

53. Indeed. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

[Glassunion]

64. Did you just say "It is extremely, extremely dangerous to hit someone who is not looking."?

Because you are upset that someone blind side punched a person who was repeatedly punching a blind person?

Just so I have it straight. Are you saying that is is not dangerous to punch a blind person, who by definition is not looking, but it is dangerous to blind side punch someone who simply isn't looking.

[DirkGently]

67. Both are dangerous of course

But they don't conflate. The kids were both fighting and reacting. It doesn't compare to a much larger kid knocking someone out from behind.

The results speak for themselves in terms of who received the potentially life altering blow.

But you know that, I think.

[Glassunion]

68. And all of it could have been avoided if the first kid was not repeatedly punching

a visually impaired kid in the face.

[DirkGently]

70. Doesn't justify an overreaction.

That's why it's called "over reacting."

[w0nderer]

79. an over reaction would be breaking multiple bones or a throat

were you ever bullied there DG? let's see some scars honey?!
so far you sound 'enabler' all over babes

[w0nderer]

78. is this about cops or bullied people?

please remember that cops usually have the power on their side

bullied people don't

??

[Maedhros]

30. False equivalency.

You are comparing school children with trained public servants.

We criticize the police because they have been trained, or should have been trained, to deal with the situations they encounter. We have no such expectation with children.

[DirkGently]

59. We expect them to sucker punch each other instead?

I'm sorry, but there is just no way to justify a huge kid -- and let's be clear please that high school football players are not tiny tots, by the way -- sucker punching another one in the back of the head like that.

He wasn't preventing a murder or stopping terrorism.

He could have done a million other things than deliver a potentially lethal blow from behind.

I don't like bullies either, but letting random football players decide when it's okay to smash someone's skull in is probably not good social policy.

[Maedhros]

76. I wasn't justifying anything. I was pointing out that comparing the actions of children

to the actions of policemen is not valid.

I don't condone violence of any kind.

[Scootaloo]

31. No. He couldn't have "scared him off" or "ended it with a word"

That's just not how this sort of thing works, DirkGently. I understand your concerns, but I promise you, there really is no way to get through to some asshole like this with words or display.

When I was in school, there was this fuckmunch named Tisdale. He liked to go around and just randomly slap sixth graders, and if htey responded, he'd use fits. The "Adults" at school, of course always said "well, we didn't see it, so..." 'cause imagine, bullies are crafty enough to evade authority. Telling him to stop resulted in "Fuck off, man" or, he'd start a fight with you.

Which is what happened when I told him to knock it off. So I got him in a headlock, swung him around for a while, and told him to stop fucking with people or the next time i'd put his head in a wall. he agreed. I let him go. he slugged me in the face and ran off, to continue doing exactly what he'd been doing.

Would just going up and cold-cocking hte bastard have fixed the problem? I dunno. But I hoenstly think it would have had a more thorough impact (eh...) than my attempt to do exactly what you described

Unfortunately the only way to control a bully is to give them what htye give others. At least, short-term; psychotherapy is the only real fix, but you can't really be the kid's doctor when you're a kid two and he's swinging at you or someone else.

[DirkGently]

34. Disagree. Blasting someone in the back of the head IS bullying.

Tiny knit-cap skater bully dude was maybe 140 lbs. One look at the behemoth that laid him out, and he would have walked. I've seen the real world of bullying too, and that is the way it works. Bullies don't want to fight just anybody; they want their target, whom they have already intimidated.

You're actually arguing even facing the bully kid, rather than slagging him full force from behind, would have been less appropriate?

[Scootaloo]

40. You and I must have experienced extremely different worlds of bullying, then

My experience was that "warding off" only results in a momentary respite. They eventually decide you're all talk, just a bitch who isn't going to do anything anyway, and they go back to it. What then? Try the same thing? Nope, they think you're a chump.

Bullies are people who think violence is funny, and that they are invincible. The only "fix" is to give them an up-close and very personal demonstration that neither of those assumptions are even close to being true. Even that is usually only a partial fix - they'll find new victims.

I believe we have an ethical obligation to protect other people when we can, how we can. I also understand that while there are objectively "more appropriate" methods of handling a situation, at the very moment objectivity doesn't exist - you act. Later you can go "well, I could have done something else," but right at that moment, you move on impulse to protect the other person getting their ass beat. And yes, that's okay.

[DirkGently]

42. That is a different thing you're describing.

This wasn't a case of the person being bullied hitting back, correct?

This was a third party of vastly more physical power than either ambushing the presumed bully from behind with a devastating blow that could have freaking killed him.

Besides being a wildly disproportional use of force -- would a bat to the head have been okay? A gunshot? -- it also doesn't do anything I can see to the bully mentality that breaking up the fight wouldn't. Kid still knows he can pick on people weaker them him. Already knew he couldn't beat up a football player.

Are you advocating that bullies just be brutalized as badly as possible by whoever's around to just beat them into submission? I don't think that works either.

I would prefer that people who intervene in bullying or in any violence aim to stop the violence, not to viciously injure whoever they think is in the wrong.

[Scootaloo]

46. It's a case of someone coming to the defense of someone unable to fight back

It's not different.

Are you advocating that bullies just be brutalized as badly as possible by whoever's around to just beat them into submission? I don't think that works either.

I'm saying that use of force to end an assault on another person is acceptable.

I'm sorry if you disagree, but I don't expect everyone earth to be the Mahatma.

[DirkGently]

47. So defend him. Don't kill another kid.

There is not the slightest reason to think for a single second that a huge football player wildly clubbing this kid in the back of of the head was the logical way to go about defending the other kid.

The big kid escalated the situation far beyond anything that was going on, and in so doing took it upon himself to maybe kill or cripple someone.

That is a bad idea and so is celebrating it.

[Scootaloo]

49. Who died? No one.

And yes. he defended the other kid by dropping his assailant like a stone. The assault was brougt to an abrupt end, ending the threat to the blind child immediately. Kid defended.

[DirkGently]

50. So excessive force that doesn't quite kill is cool?

Again, why not a bat to the back of the head? Also might not kill, right?

When cops shoot someone they could have Tazed, or Taze someone they could have tackled, or tackle someone they could have simply ordered to the ground, everyone is upset. It's so important, we say, to use the least amount of force necessary.

But a kid so much bigger than the others he literally could have just said "stop it" knocks someone cold from behind, and it's cool because we really don't like the target of the vicious, potentially lethal attack?

[Scootaloo]

54. If someone is getting their face punched in, and a cop tazes the assailant, I have no complaints

See, that's the important factor you keep missing - a blind kid was being punched in the face repeatedly by the bully.

[Glassunion]

57. The poster is intentionally downplaying the attack on the blind kid.

[DirkGently]

60. No sir. You are downplaying smashing someone's head in from behind

That situation went from about a 0% chance of serious injury to a kid getting knocked out by a blow to the back of the head, which is one of the most dangerous things you can do to a person. It is surprising if the kid whose head was smashed into the sidewalk does not have serious injuries, whether you choose to acknowledge that or not.

I know. You choose to question whether the kid was actually "knocked out," because that changes the whole, "getting smashed by a man-sized football player in the back of the head" situation somehow.

Except of course it doesn't.

[Glassunion]

66. No, I'm not down playing it.

That bully got hit, and he got hit hard.

My point is the blind kid was also getting hit, and getting hit hard. Repeatedly.

So, by your post here, if it had simply continued, the blind kid would have been okay? You did state about a 0% chance of serious injury.

[DirkGently]

69. The murder punch was unnecessary, period.

Gigantor could have shoved the bully, shouted at the bully, or a dozen other things less likely to cripple or kill someone.

The fact you approve of the vicious attack speaks to your desire to see someone hurt, not to protect the bullied.

[Glassunion]

71. Ok that made me laugh...

Murder punch, Gigantor... Holy crap, thank you. That was good.

Lastly, I do not approve of violence. I dislike it a considerable bit. I do not desire to see someone get hurt. I personally, being who I am, would have taken a different approach. However, Cody is not me, and I do not hold people to my own standards. Because they are mine. I however will not condemn Cody for doing what he did in the heat of the moment when he saw his defenseless friend being hurt.

[DirkGently]

72. And I will not celebrate it.

Thank you for acknowledging "Gigantor" and "murder punch" though. I was pleased with those.

[Glassunion]

73. Not celebrating it.

You see I've given it quite a bit of thought, and probably most folks replying have as well. You see I cannot think of any good reason whatsoever where a person would be justified in repeatedly punching a visually impaired person who cannot fight back. There really is nothing so dramatic that he could have done at school to deserve being assaulted at lunch. I've honestly gone through all the bad shit that ever happened to me in school, and none of it justifies whailing on a blind kid.

Now the other kid, well he was beating up a blind kid.

So that's probably where the justification comes in. He was relentlessly beating on a blind kid and did need to be stopped. We'd all handle it differently, but you had a group of kids, standing around, some filming a blind kid helplessly getting punched over and over, and none of them did anything to help until that last kid pushed through the crowd and did something. Yes he hurt the kid and that is bad. But he did bring it on himself.

[DirkGently]

74. Well I don't feel we even have an argument then.

Enjoy the weekend.

[Glassunion]

75. You too. Go Jets!

[Reter]

80. What if ISIS is about to cut someone's head off?

Would you support the Navy Seal shooting him in the back of the head, or would you want him to say "please drop that sword"?

[DirkGently]

83. I'd call that a drastically different situation.

... wouldn't you?

[Liberal_in_LA]

22. Give hero a medal

[Liberal_in_LA]

24. Petition to get him reinstated football team

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/358/010/475/get-cody-pine-back-on-the-football-team-after-defending-a-blind-classmate-against-a-bully/

[DirkGently]

37. He was not kicked off the football team in the first place.

Alyssa Griffiths said Pines hadn't even signed up to play this year after stopping last spring.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/calif-high-school-bully-hit-blind-classmate-arrested-article-1.2374024

[uhnope]

51. 5 second video and people think they know all about it.

I love the Internet. It's making people so hilariously ridiculous

[DirkGently]

61. Oh for gawd's sake it's Friday. n/t

[Facility Inspector]

65. dude got KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT

hell yeah, I would raise my sons to do the exact same thing,

[imanamerican63]

77. My concern is.....

Why didn't the person filming the incident or the others who stood by, do anything to stop this before the big kid stepped in?

[dilby]

81. Looks fair to me.

He had as much warning as the blind kid and if he died, his problem.