What if the Religious Right allied with the Working Left?

[Jetboy]

Corporations support the Republicans economic agenda and the Democrats social agenda. They are against Republican social agenda and Democratic economic agenda. So they bought both parties (some Dems excluded of course). If supporters of the Religious Right and the Working Left united and agreed to leave social issues to the states, no amount of corporate money could defeat their candidate.

It isn't impossible and it would be for the greater good of the country in the long run. In the short run, crazies would have their way in a few southern states and Idaho but it wouldn't take many years for even these places to join the rest of us. The crazies have power but are dying off and the younger folks just don't care about smiting folks quite as much.

[MohRokTah]

1. NO! eom

[yeoman6987]

25. So we continue the status quo?

Something's going to have to budge. We can't continue like this. We can't wait for elections either because the next president isn't until January 2017. That's a long time for people in need and our economy. I am not saying the OP is the way to go but something needs to be done ASAP!

[MohRokTah]

26. Um, YES!

No way no how do I EVER align myself with those motherfucking fundies.

NEVER!

[yeoman6987]

38. I know. They'd never sign with us either.

Well just keep going the direction we are and hope for the best.

[CreekDog]

191. smooth

[rusty quoin]

2. Well maybe. But I don't see it happening soon.

Yet many things have surprised me lately. The religious right was manufactured by people like Jerry Falwell. It's been a long time. I can hope.

[Jetboy]

3. Corporations sure don't want it to happen. There really isn't anything that we can do as

Democrats except to hope that the Pope's words and Bernie Sanders speech at Liberty U reawakens a spark in their hearts about what Jesus was all about. I believe that we will see a percentage, perhaps 5-10% of these people who will join Sanders.

If there was some sort of coordinated effort to exploit this opportunity, and I mean right now, it could pull a lot more IMO.

[rusty quoin]

179. Wow your post did get a reaction I never expected

[PeaceNikki]

4. Align with misogynistic homophobes and leave social issues "to the states"?

You mean social issues like civil rights and a woman's right to autonomy?

No. Hell no.

[Jetboy]

6. Technically yes.

I look at it as the greater good. Corporations call the shots right now and that is good for gay marriage, a woman's right to choose and other important issues but it is very bad for working people, the economy and not fighting endless global wars. The crazy Religious Right is dying off and the younger versions aren't the same.

Social progress will march forward regardless of what we do right now but if we don't rid America of Corporate rule soon it may never happen. Just an outside the box thought in the wake of Bernie at LU and the Pope's visit.

[PeaceNikki]

9. Well, yipidee do for you. You're dangerously wrong.

They are closing clinics, passing TRAP laws, forcing providers to literally lie to patients about abortion, creating fake videos accusing providers of horrific things, defunding Planned Parenthood at the state and federal levels, suing over birth control coverage in the ACA, threatening and literally killing providers.

You fucking think that is good or will get better? That's infuckingsane.

You go align with those monsters, the rest of us have work to do.

There is NO economic justice without reproductive freedom.

[Jetboy]

12. All of that is true but it is also true that children of the people doing this stuff

don't feel the same way. They are simply dying off and being replaced with kids with gay friends, transgendered friends and friends of all colors and religions.

Continued social progress is inevitable. Economic progress for the working class hasn't existed in decades.

[PeaceNikki]

13. There is NO economic justice without reproductive freedom.

We get it. You want to shove LGBT people back in the closest and further oppress them and women to get what YOU want.

Fuck that and your white male privilege.

[Jetboy]

15. The only thing I want is for America to be controlled by the people and not

corporations as they have for decades. I understand what you are saying but I don't know a single young person who is anti-abortion or anti-gay marriage and I just believe that continued progress socially is inevitable and that economic progress is unlikely under status quo politicians.

On a personal level, I am a white male who is quite dark skinned (7/8 caucasian 1/8 japaneese- don't look japaneese at all people have no idea what race I am) and has a rather unique perspective on race. I have most certainly been discriminated against but stealthy enough to be present when old lily white America spoke decades ago. Though I am poor, I have everything I want in life and am very happy except for Corporations controlling our political process. I want the very best for all people, especially the vulnerable, the weak the powerless the discriminated against etc. Maybe I have a different way of going about it than you do. I just was inspired by Sanders LU speech and the Pope's visit and it led to an admitedly outside the box idea. Peace to you regardless of what you think of me.

[MohRokTah]

27. I'll take corporations over fundies EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK!!!

And TWICE on Sundays!

ANYBODY who suggests I should align myself with those evil bastards IS MY ENEMY!

[Skidmore]

54. You have

summed up my reaction well. Giving permission to prejudices feuled by the sanctimony of a group of people who see themselves as a righteous chosen further engrains injustice.

[LostOne4Ever]

61. +infinity (nt)

[gollygee]

145. A country controlled by right-wing fascists is not a country I want.

Are you serious? Are you really willing to throw women, people of color, and LGBT people the hell under the bus? Anyone else you're willing to sacrifice?

[bettyellen]

83. THIS!!!

[gollygee]

147. +1000

[randys1]

206. And I just read this in a thread where I am blocked, so I cant respond there

including the earnest but low-information voters in the Religious Evangelicals, who underneath it all, still are FDR Democrats. Socialists,

That is so ignorant.

I cant believe I read that on this board.

[LostOne4Ever]

60. The only reason that is happening is because people are constantly fighting for social justice!

Last edited Mon Sep 28, 2015, 12:46 PM - Edit history (1)

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Take that away and the kids will grow up just as bigoted as their parents and the rights of women and sexual minorities will be set back decades in some place and centuries in others![/font]

[PeaceNikki]

67. That's exactly correct. In fact it would probably be worse!

[Number23]

100. I didn't want to kick this vile foolish thread but your post is spot on

Take that away and the kids will grow up just as bigoted as their parents and the rights of women and sexual minorities will be set back decades in some place and centuries in others!

+ a million

[gollygee]

146. +100000

[randys1]

207. Let me add my thanks for posting this. I am amazed, wait, no i am NOT

that this thread exists here on DU.

In fact, not amazed at all.

Just another day here.

White male str8t protestant privilege like nobody's business

[gollygee]

141. Hell No

That is not any kind of greater good. My bodily autonomy is not for sale!

[RandySF]

181. NO

"Social progress" on race did not advance in the South until the courts and the federal government got involved. If we left it up to the states, many women would still be living under the rule of abusive husbands or boyfriends. We would have no Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Title 9, and the Equal Pay Act. And I will not throw women, children, LGBT and religious minorities under the bus to get Bernie elected.

[RandySF]

183. It's not even just about abortion and gay rights.

The religious right has a history of opposing desegregation in the South as well as opposing laws against spousal and child abuse.

[CreekDog]

192. Social progress does not inevitably move forward

Only someone who knows little to no history thinks that to be true.

No wonder you think we can abandon the fight for civil rights to align with the right wing on economic issues.

[LostOne4Ever]

59. THIS!!!

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]There can be no economic equality without social equality![/font]

[riversedge]

205. Agree. Look at WI--and other Red states.

[Solly Mack]

5. Fart noises

[Jetboy]

7. Right back attcha!

[UtahLib]

22. Oh, you hit my funny bone. Can't stop laughing.

[Jetboy]

23. It's deja vu all over again!

[betsuni]

186. This is the best comment. nt

[CharlotteVale]

8. Screwing over women and gays would be for the "greater good" of the country?

FUCK THAT SHIT!

[Jetboy]

10. Overthrowing Corporate Rule is not inevitable. Progress in civil rights for women, POC, gays and

transgendered people is. Yeah I would throw Mississippi, Idaho and a few other states under the bus for a decade or so in order to end Corporate Rule in America. It is in no way outrageous to float the idea.

[pinboy3niner]

11. Somebody always has to be the first to stand up bravely and volunteer others to sacrifice

Way to go!

[smilingwen]

24. common good

Both Bernie and the Pope are referring to focusing on helping the poor and addressing climate change. Both the right and the left have lots of poor and both have those interested in climate change. If we come together on things we agree on, and choose to put those agenda items on the forefront we could come together.

I think we could do that and still not leave other things to the states. Those areas where we disagree with the other side would still be addressed, but not at the same time. We fight for them too. Just don't let our disagreements keep us from solving problems we can agree on.

The corporations ruling use these differences to divide and conquer and it works very well. They would lose power if we came together. When right wing economics don't work for the middle class they tell their side it is because 'other people' are taking their jobs. That shifts the blame away from them and keeps them voting against their own interests.

The gridlock is ALL due to big money backing campaigns. If the polititions had to answer to the voters they would get things done. If we don't let them divide us, and if we quit hating the other side the problems would get solved.

We are all getting propaganda. The right is being told we want to kill babies and just want to sit around and get free stuff. They are being convinced to hate us all as part of the plan. Then we are being taught to hate them. The laws are written by the corporations, not the voting public. The bigotry is promoted by the media to keep us from wising up and working together to regain control of our politics and our lives.

[NYC Liberal]

86. Which rights, exactly, are YOU proposing to sacrifice for yourself?

Easy to say others should do it.

You're not throwing states under the bus; you're throwing people under it.

[bettyellen]

88. He is not giving up a single thing

[NYC Liberal]

89. "I'm willing, out of the goodness of my heart, to let you gays and women sacrifice your rights."

[bettyellen]

90. This is so repulsive and harmful to Sanders- that idiocy like this

That this naked ignorance and selfishness should be roundly condemned here by them. But I'm not seeing it.
Sorry folks- this is not a HRC or MOM supporter talking, we all know where this is crazy idea is coming from. Very sad to see this here.

[NuclearDem]

64. It's all about the greater good!

[jberryhill]

14. "Leave social issues to the states"

Gosh, we could have avoided a whole war that way.

[daleanime]

16. Neither side would want to...

we would be giving too much away and they would feel like they had received nothing.

[MisterP]

17. interestingly a religious *left* is building up: as the Baggers scream that the Pope's a Commie

antichrist Frenchman, as the New Atheists literally cite Breitbart, as the televangelists' cries that queering causes hurricanes while their followers age out of the mortal plabe, as an atheish Jewish guy basically lines up with the popular new Pope, a new configuration is becoming viable

[rusty quoin]

18. I thought it interesting and gave you a bump I don't know why no one else did

[NuclearDem]

19. No. No no no no no. No no no.

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no


NO

NO

NO

STUPID STATES RIGHTS MEME MAKE YAKS MAD

WUUUURRRRRGGHHHH

[Chitown Kev]

20. I suppose that you mean the "straight white working left"

I (a black gay man) don't want to be anywhere near those people because they want people like me dead.

[Jetboy]

21. If it was only straight white working left and the religious right the candidate

could not win.

Yes it would mean people having to move away from the home/area/state they grew up in order to live under the freedom expressed in the Constitution.

But what if it was just 1 state? Would that be worth it? Is that concession too much to trade for Gov't for and by the people?

If it was more than just a few states it probably would NOT be worth it. But what about 1, 2 or 3 states ruled by Christian Fascist law? Would you trade that for 48 states where there is complete economic and social justice in addition to ending global wars? I think that I would make that trade. 10 states? Nope, too many.

[MohRokTah]

28. What you suggest is the most vile and evil thing I have ever seen on DU.

You are my political enemy for life.

[Jetboy]

29. I'll put your mark in the collum of 1 state for the Xtian Fundies is not

worth world peace etc. Thanks for expressing your opinion.

[MohRokTah]

30. No, it's not.

And it's spelled, "column".

Besides the fact that you would never achieve your goals by aligning with those evil motherfuckers.

[MohRokTah]

32. No, even if you could actually achieve that, it is not worth it.

And you damned sure couldn't achieve what you claim you would.

[bettyellen]

84. There's already many u more than one state- but you don't know or care.

Stop pretending to be altruistic/ you're in it for purely your own self interest. Fuck that- finds other party to infiltrate.

[bettyellen]

96. Oh wow- handing us world peace on a silver platter are you?

You must be very very new at this. Lol.

[LostOne4Ever]

62. +1000 nt

[stage left]

82. +about a million

Evil, indeed. In my book, no Americans should suffer oppression and shame be on anyone's head who would consign them to such for the so called "Greater Good"

[Bluenorthwest]

58. So without LGBT and other minorities you can't win. That means you can't win.

So that is basically that. Try to learn that truth. You are promoting Christian Fascist law. What do you propose would happen to those of other faiths in those Fascist States? To the LGBT?
Also our country has a history of those States dealing in human chattel. There was a war to put an end to that. Are you suggesting you would be happy with slave states?

[gollygee]

149. Sounds like it

so long as straight white men are taken care of.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

69. Here's where you fail: the first sentence.

Yes it would mean people having to move away from the home/area/state they grew up in order to live under the freedom expressed in the Constitution.

The Constitution and its freedoms are for the entire country.

You want to create a brand new country somewhere not already part of the US and convince all of the bigots to go there, go for it. But when the bigots leave, or 'secede' or whatever they do, they don't get to take part of the country with them. We already tried that, it was called the 'Civil War'. And they lost.

[gollygee]

150. The whole thing is a fail

I'd put him on my ignore list but I want to keep up with where this horrible idea is going.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

151. Nowhere fast?

I mean seriously, it's the total caricature that gets thrown at Sanders' supporters that they 'only care about economics' and don't give a rat's ass about social or civil justice. If it's not deliberate trolling, then this is the guy that got all of those accusations started.

[gollygee]

152. I'm going to hope he's an anti-Sanders troll

because this is seriously bothering me, as a Sanders supporter. I can't support someone who would ever entertain anything like this, or who would bring people into power who would entertain this. If it's trolling, it is VERY effective.

[gollygee]

148. Poor people can't just move

so poor women, people of color, LGBT people, just suffer for your benefit in your horrible scenario.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

33. No. You know what? NO.

The Constitution isn't just some "goddamned piece of paper". People's rights, freedom and even their lives aren't some damned pawns to play around with in some chess game. Talk about not only a total lack of empathy, but an attitude that just screams "I got mine, so fuck you!". Hey, you might gain something out of your "deal", and that's all that matters, right? Sucks to be a woman, a non-white, or an LGBT in one of those "unfortunate" states, doesn't it? No skin off your back.

Crazies having their way in even ONE state is one too many. The rights stated in the Constitution are supposed to apply to everyone. That includes the people you feel can be offered up to sacrifice, and people who are just fucking stupid enough to be born the wrong sex, wrong color, wrong orientation, or just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

"Some people will just have to move". What if they can't? Worse yet, what if you just give away so much power to the crazies that the crazies give themselves the right to kill anyone they don't approve of? Whoops, too late to move out of the state. But, hey, we got ours in the other 25/30/35/40/47 other states, right? Thanks for sacrificing yourself so we can be better off.

Also, have you been paying attention for the last 35 years or so? You throw these assholes a bone, and they want the whole skeleton. You throw them a piece of red meat, and they want the entire cattle farm. You divvy up a state or two for the American Taliban, and you think they'll be happy? Fuck no. "We got Florida and South Carolina? Not good enough. We want North Carolina, and Georgia, and Mississippi, and..." You think Rick Warren is just gonna sit here in California quietly? Hell no. He'll want his, too. Because every fucking time that Gila Monster With A Pompadour (Reagan), the Bush-Whacker, and the Smirking Chimp have thrown these fascists a crumb, they've gone after the whole goddamned bakery.

We're roughly three months removed from the SCOTUS decision making marriage equality the law of the land, and these people are already fighting tooth and nail to undo it and restore Christo-fascism. You go throwing them states and people's lives to "get yours", and they'll fight even harder to GET ALL OF IT, and ALL OF US.

At the very least, your post is completely devoid of empathy. At the worst, it's saying "We don't want nor need YOUR kind anyway."

How absolutely fucking disgusting this thread is, proposing this shit and basically declaring people as pawns.... as human sacrifices.

You know who the fuck else does that shit? Corporations. Yes, those same corporations you're willing to offer us up to defeat. Think about that. How are you any better if you're trying to feed some of us the same shit sandwich they are, just dressed up differently? Some of them are willing to sacrifice us for profits. You're willing to sacrifice us to get what YOU want.

I'm not a fucking pawn. Nor is anyone else who has found themselves in the American Taliban's cross-hairs over the years.

Whiskey?! Tango?! Foxtrot?!

[Jetboy]

34. Vouchers could be created for people who have to move out of the 1 Xtian

Fundie state to one of the other 49 states. I believe that is worth world peace etc.

You clearly think the opposite. Do you know any young people with backwards social views? I don't which is why I don't fear the fundies.

Hatred is going away in America but Corporate power is growing. Body cams on police are on their way and back-alley abortions are history. But global war, a rigged economy and corporations controlling American gov't are not.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

36. Why would you fear the fundies? They're no threat to YOU.

I think at the very least, you don't give a shit about anyone but yourself. At the worst, you're a bigot.

Hearing that some "others" are less important than "the majority" is the kind of shit I would expect to hear from my EX-Republican friends, not from someone here.

You have no right to talk about "world peace" when you're willing to volunteer innocent people to have their lives destroyed so you get what YOU want.

And you tell me "hatred is going away"? I sure feel it on this thread.

Or, to put it another way:

[Jetboy]

40. The only hatred in this thread has been directed at me and not

the other way around.

You THINK I THINK such and such and whatnot but my words are very clear. I am for liberty and justice for all Americans and all people around the world. I see right now as an opportunity to woo some working class Republicans to vote Democrat due to Sanders and the Pope's recent activities.

I value social issues as MORE important than economic issues. A person can get by without money but when justice is not present then it is far worse than being broke. I would far prefer that bad things happen to me than happen to anyone else (besides Trump, GWB, Cheney and a few others who can GTH) The reality is that I give far bigger shit about YOU and everybody else in the world than I do myself. I know how lucky I am and strive to help any and all others be in such a fortuitous position. I want to end cruelty to all people and animals and I want everyone to have justice under the law and freedom to live their lives as they see fit. I don't judge groups, only individuals and I give individuals the benefit of the doubt until it can no longer be done (like Cheney GWB)

I outlined an idea to provide economic and social justice to all Americans. No amount of corporate money could defeat a candidate backed by the working left and the religious right. It's the truth and neither group is being served by corporations in any way. Give 'em a state or two for a few years in exchange for no more war and economic and social justice in 48 of the 50 states? I am some crazy bigot for this hypothetical? If you think that then you are Tea Party Left., completely impractical, unreasonable and very SELFISH!

[IngridsLittleAngel]

43. Yeah. That's it. Play the victim card.

Your idea is sick, and I don't mean in a good way. Everyone here BUT you sees it. And, when you got called on it, you're the victim and everyone "hates" you.

No. We don't hate you. We just hate the fact you're willing to collaborate with the enemy.

Some of us get put through enough hell from the American Taliban without being sold out by Quislings on the "left".

Yes. I'm selfish for not being willing to have my rights sold out from under me so you can get what you want. What a fucking load of shit.

[Jetboy]

45. I'd be willing to give my life for no more global wars and

49 of the 50 American states having social and economic justice.

You want EVERYTHING and RIGHT NOW and without any compromise with ANYONE. Good luck Taliban Left.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

46. I do?

No. You do. And you seem to think others are supposed to bend over and take it so you get what you want.

I don't have to compromise. Meanwhile, you seem to think it's fine to demand others to compromise their rights for you.

[Jetboy]

48. No global war and economic and social justice guaranteed in

49 of the 50 states is about as close to EVERYTHING as you can get and it's not good enough for you. So yes, you do want everything and you have no desire to compromise. Taliban Left.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

49. You don't have the right to tell minorities what's "good enough"

when it comes to rights and equality.

[PeaceNikki]

65. Taliban Left? Back away from the keyboard, dudebro.

[randys1]

209. Taliban left should be the end of this discussion. The person has no clue what they are

talking about and especially not a single clue about what a liberal is or stands for, after making that comment.

My fear is this person is not alone, at all.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

53. So here's poor little lefty me trapped in a burning building with a bigoted rw type and

my gay kid. The only way to escape is for the fundie and me to work together, which will save ALL our lives. But the fundie refuses to help unless we abandon my gay kid to the fire, and save his Bible. Your idea is for me to agree to that, so the fundie and I escape, while the gay kid dies. And then you'd call me 'SELFISH!' if I said 'Screw that noise. I'm only going if my gay kid gets to escape too.' I'm not trading gay lives for Bibles.

[gollygee]

155. +1000

[Meldread]

35. How brave of you.

It's so brave of you to stand up and be willing to sacrifice others for your political agenda.

This is what is wrong with modern liberals right here. You have no moral core, and would gladly abandon all values so long as you maintain your safety, privilege, and things remain relatively stable for you. You are only a liberal so that you can pat yourself on the back, and feel good about yourself--pretending as you mouth words of support to minorities that you are somehow enlightened. However, the truth of the matter is you're just a bigot that smiles, and that is why I prefer the bigots who don't hide it. At least they don't pretend to be allies.

[Jetboy]

37. I strive to have the highest moral code and beleive in protecting the innocent

the vulnerable and those discriminated against first and the rest of us second.

It is consistent with that code that I would be willing to sacrifice one or two states to the Fundies in order to end global wars, and provide economic and social justice for all residents of the other 48 states. Any and all who wish to flea would be provided with a voucher to relocate to the other 48 states. Forget the USA my friend how would ending global wars impact the rest of the world? And I'm the selfish one?

I am an ally to all who believe in peace, love, equality under the law, opportunity for all and discrimination against none. Feel free to hate me but at least read what I have written throughout this thread. I see recent developments such as Sanders speech at LU and the Pope's visit as an opportunity to find common ground with self-described Religious Fundamentalist (aka Fundies) and perhaps a chance to free our country of corporate rule. I have great faith in future generations lacking hatred in their hearts but I have no faith in corporations going anywhere.

[MohRokTah]

39. Yet you are willing to throw everybody else under the bus to get your way.

[Jetboy]

41. I would be willing to dress in Drag and live in Alabama as the only

gay brown man in the state if it meant that Americans in the other 49 states were guaranteed economic and social justice and no more global wars.

I would let the haters in this thread pick out my outfit so that the Fundies would really fuck me up. I'll throw myself under the bus and scream for it to keep running me over over and over again if it meant that. I'd give my life if it meant no global wars and 49 states with economic and social justice. Would you?

[Meldread]

44. That is easy for you to say.

...as you don't live those experiences on a daily basis, and you know that you would never be called to do such.

Your statement is the equivalent of Mike Huckabee crying out that he'll take Kim Davis' place in prison, knowing full well that isn't going to happen.

Your statement is insulting, as it trivializes what queer people and people of color actually have to deal with on a daily basis. They don't have the option of taking off the outfit and going back to their comfortable heterosexual white male life.

[Skidmore]

55. There is no social justice from

the religious right and your expectations are naive. Who do you think those fundies are who would sacrifice you under the bus and what do you think they would want in exchange?

[passiveporcupine]

170. Every post you state is getting funnier than the last one.

Do you write for the Onion, and you are setting up a piece?

Either that, or you are still in high school and just so crammed full of ideology you can't figure out what to do with it.

Sorry...but I think a lot of people posting here are being strung along when they should just be laughing.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

193. I was crammed full of ideas in high school myself...

So many things I wanted to do myself to help others, and no ideas on how to make it happen.

The OP? It sounds like the General from South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut, assigning Battalion 5 (all blacks) to be "Operation: Human Shield".

You may be right about their age. But, sadly, I think their "ideology" consists of pushing others to "take bullets" so they don't.

[Meldread]

42. You are an idiot.

If the Fundies were actually standing in the way of "ending global wars, and providing economic and social justice for all" then it is better to put a bullet in their heads and move forward, as they are surely an enemy to all of humanity. However, any rational person knows full well that it is not -JUST- the Christian Fundamentalists that are the problem. You still have the Muslim Fundamentalists that lead to groups like ISIS. You still have oppressive dictatorships such as North Korea. You still have nationalism which can be just as bad as religion.

The simple fact of the matter is your idea is idiotic. It would fracture the Democratic Party into a million pieces, and you would be left only with the white working class who already lean more toward social conservatism and the religious fundies. Everyone else would bolt and immediately form a new party, and I would be one of the first among them.

I refuse to vote for a religious fundamentalist. Period. I vomited in my mouth when Bernie spoke at Liberty, a borderline traitorous move.

My goal is to push them out of politics entirely. My goal is to ensure that they have ZERO political power, and the more things shift in our direction on social issues the more and more they'll withdraw from politics. I know plenty on the religious right, and they are watching their people become disengaged. This is what I want. I don't want them to have a seat at the table, because they do not belong at the table.

It is like negotiating with a terrorist. You just don't do it. If you negotiate with a terrorist you legitimize them, and you encourage others to act similarly. I do not want to legitimize the religious right, after I've spent my entire adulthood fighting with every fiber of my being to delegitimize and marginalize them.

[Warpy]

50. Some of the smarter ones already have

on issues like the environment and the need to raise wages.

The smarter ones realize the GOP has been stringing them along on social issues for years but not doing much more than window dressing while purchasing power continues to drop, employment contracts, and worker rights are being stomped on all over the place.

I know some of the smarter ones. They're sick of lip service from the corrupt far right. They realize they're not going to get their way on social issues because the majority opposes their way. They're starting to work on things they can get.

[Recursion]

51. Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes

I'd be wary

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

52. No thanks.

But they're welcome to join us in working together on issues that benefit ALL of us, such as reducing corporate power.

Why should we give them anything extra, such as religious power over social issues simply because they might finally become smart enough to work in their own self-interest on economic issues?

[bettyellen]

94. Thank you Erich. Good to see a Sanders supporter here.

[Bluenorthwest]

56. Vague and faith based nonsense. If corps are in charge and they support our 'social agenda' why

has ENDA not passed since 1974? You sound to me like a conservative religious person running a scam.

Trade your own rights for magic beans Jack and go climb a beanstalk.

[Skidmore]

57. I think you nailed it.

[LostOne4Ever]

63. Your idea is based off of bad assumptions would destroy all progress made in the last 200 years

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Social progress is in no way assured.

The only reason we have come this far is because of people constantly pounding the pavement and fighting for change. Back off on that even a little and the regressionistic theonomists will get a foothold that will take decades if not centuries to undue.

They will flood our schools with lies about our government, morality, and how they wish society was and how they want it to works. They will teach our kids to despise LGBTQ people and strip women of all rights. And set up an institutionalize hierarchy and rules to ensure that the children won't ever hear dissent.

We will lose not only the young kids of today but generation after generation thereafter.

Further, just think of what you are saying. ALL the wealth and power would be shored up with cis-white-straight-protestant-males. You would not be moving the country forward, you will be moving it back. Reinstating the old aristocracy that we worked to hard to remove from power.

All the while throwing women and all minorities (racial, sexual, gender, and religious) under the bus for purely your own benefit. Only by having both social and economic justice can the country ever move forward.

Your idea is quiet simply the single worst idea I have ever heard on DU.[/font]

[Facility Inspector]

66. 2016 Election

requires that Democrats focus on "bread and butter" issues, stay away from the bedroom, and hammer hammer hammer republican failure, nuttiness, and downright hostility toward getting ANYTHING done.

They need to be characterized as downright traitors.

ALSO - major GOTV with hispanic/Latino communities regardless of voter status.

Community needs to be reached out to as a WHOLE, getting message to through to family/household leaders.

Who you know, what you know are just as important as who you are: the idea that the repubs have an open season out against Latinos needs to be the most important message.

The first generation Latino American voters will listen to their elders and leaders in the household.

That's why you can't dismiss non-eligible Latino voters. They can communicate the message in a way that no mass mailing can, especially if you coalition build with respect and not treat them as 2nd class people.

[Ron Green]

68. I'm recommending your post, because you've caught a lot of grief

from people who are somewhat closed-minded about this. You're right that the Culture War has been used by the corporations to keep working people divided, and that social conservatives are not as dangerous as some people say.

Although slowly, cultural changes will continue to bend in the direction of tolerance (witness this Pope's evolving thought and language), and economic shifts away from centralized corporate control will benefit local market activity and entrepreneurs.

Exploring alliances over the protests of militant one-issue shouters is difficult, but I'm glad you've brought this up.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

71. I know, right?!

It's funny how 40+ years of bigotry at the hands of the very people that the OP would love to throw raw meat to would cause someone like me to be a big ol' close-minded meany, isn't it? How close-minded of me to think the Constitution applies to me. How close-minded of us to not see the greatness of "state's rights".

I really wish the grief I endured in life was comparable with a few blunt responses on a message board because I inserted my foot in my mouth.

I'm just wondering: How long have you been targeted by those not-so-dangerous social conservatives? Have any experience in knowing they aren't as "dangerous" as we think?

I'll tell you what, buddy: When that "one-issue" I'm so "militant" over involves people's rights and safety, I'm going to shout, and shout as loud as I can. When corporations are standing to one side thinking people exist solely as assets to exploit, and brave "negotiators" are standing to the other thinking people exist solely as pawns to sacrifice for their benefit, how in the blue hell can I see either side as anything but the enemy?

Hell yeah. Let's just throw the religious right a few bones on their bigoted and bullshit culture wars if it leads to the greater good for the masses. The "normal" masses.

What both you and the OP fail to see if there is a huge difference between trying to pull the wool off of sheep's eyes and pointing out to them that we have a common enemy, and offering up some human sacrifices to them in the damned culture war that they may or may not have started, but that they've sure fought and shed blood in.

What a thread. I just wish some of you would hurry up and accuse us of wanting ponies, tell us to eat our peas or sit in the back of the bus, or shout "state's rights!" so I'd get a bingo.

[PeaceNikki]

72. .

[Ron Green]

78. Remember what Kane was clapping for?

[PeaceNikki]

79. Irrelevant. This is indicative of me clapping for that post.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

108. Is this better, Mr. Green?

[LostOne4Ever]

73. I would like to take a moment to welcome you to DU

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Awesome Posts btw! [/font]

[IngridsLittleAngel]

75. Thank you

Thank you to both you and PeaceNikki. Much appreciated.

[bettyellen]

85. Bravo! Every Sander supporter should be all over this OP saying No! If they want our support they

Need to distance themselves from this bullshit today. Because this is the stuff I'm hearing dog whistled both here and in RL.
Stand up for us people or its over for your candidate. Idiotic ideas like this are not worth losing the Dem base over. Just say No!

[IngridsLittleAngel]

93. I've tried to avoid any of the tension over Hillary vs. Bernie, but...

I am a Bernie supporter myself. The biggest reason has been his voting record over the years on civil rights, and that usually when it's mattered, he has done the right thing.

Do I wish he would sometimes speak up more often? Sure. Maybe if he did, we'd see less of his supporters pushing this "beat the corporations at all costs" crap. Don't get me wrong. I am as tired of our corporate overlords as anyone. I am tired of their greed, their corruption, their ruthlessness, and their putting profits over lives. I want to see them go down in flames as much as anyone. But there's a right way and a wrong way to about it. Lowering ourselves to their level, using the same tactics, and selling out people to "win" is just as bad, if not worse.

I don't think we'd see Bernie himself pull something like this in the name of "winning", but... I'm more than a little disturbed by some of the "supporters" who've jumped on the bandwagon who would be more than happy to. Their (and my) candidate has taken controversial and unpopular positions because it's the right thing to do. It scares me to see people in our camp (or claiming to be) who are 180 degrees apart on this.

I get where you're coming from, totally. I do. I have strained relationships with a number of friends who identify as Republican and conservative. They claim to care, to be good friends, to support their party because of "the economy" and have no problem with LGBT's or women's rights or people of color. But, then, they'll badger me every election. "Can't you just vote for Rmoney/Chump/Cruz Control/Rubio/Klondike Kardashian? We need to stop Obama. The liberals will take all our taxes!" So, I ask them "Well, what about the gays and lesbians and transgender and women and blacks?" I'll get some answer along the lines of "That's less important" or "You'll have to wait" or "Can't you just put that aside for us right now?" or "Sacrifices need to be made". So, they care, but, their money and privilege is more important than my rights and freedom? More important than the rights and freedom of millions of people who have done nothing but commit the "crime" of being born an "other"?

Welcome to why this OP disgusted me. I've gotten decades of this shit from "friends" on the right. The ol' "Suck it up" and "take one for the team" and "sacrifice yourself for me" bullshit. So, when I see it from someone on the left, I get even more disgusted. "Wait. I already expect, and endure, this shit from Republicans. I gotta get it from the other side, too?!?

I'm tired. I'm tired after 4+ decades of people's bigotry and nastiness and hate. I'm tired of watching this shit continue and even thrive in a country that's now nearing 240 years old. It's time for the bigots to grow up and grow a brain. It's time for this country to grow up. The religious right has become nastier and nastier every time someone has thrown them a few scraps of raw meat. Throwing them an entire cow (or more) to "win" on economic issues is the absolute worst thing we can do - both from a "strategic" standpoint, as well as a moral and human one.

I'm more than a little disturbed by those on my "side" - whether it be people identifying as liberal, or even saying they back Bernie - expressing viewpoints such as the one the OP did. We're supposed to be better than this shit. We're supposed to value life over profits, rights over power - not the other way around.

No, I can't speak for the Bernie group. I've never even posted there yet. All I can say is this is one Bernie supporter who doesn't buy into or endorse this shit - in fact, I oppose it with every fiber of my being. I would truly like to believe that beliefs such as the ones in the OP are held by a small minority of the camp. Hell, I'd prefer they not be held by anyone at all in the camp. Let's just hope that's the case.

Those who are willing to "win at all costs" scare me as it is. When they're willing to sacrifice others to achieve victory, that's a million times from frightening.

Edit to add, after thinking about it: Yeah. Considering his own track record, I would also like to see EVERY Bernie supporter call the turd of an initial post, and the mentality behind it, the pile of shit it truly is.

[bettyellen]

95. i agree with your thoughts. I'm seeing two prolific Sanders supporters here....

And many very prolific ones who I hope will not ignore this thread. I yelled at a friend of mine for the same shit a few days ago at poker. Asking can't we time it down for just a year. No! These are our lives and I'm not entering a coalition with people who hate me. Fuck that.

[Number23]

101. Dangit, I do not want to kick this thread!! But this is such a fabulous post

Well said. Every last word.

I have strained relationships with a number of friends who identify as Republican and conservative. They claim to care, to be good friends, to support their party because of "the economy" and have no problem with LGBT's or women's rights or people of color. But, then, they'll badger me every election. "Can't you just vote for Rmoney/Chump/Cruz Control/Rubio/Klondike Kardashian? We need to stop Obama. The liberals will take all our taxes!" So, I ask them "Well, what about the gays and lesbians and transgender and women and blacks?" I'll get some answer along the lines of "That's less important" or "You'll have to wait" or "Can't you just put that aside for us right now?" or "Sacrifices need to be made". So, they care, but, their money and privilege is more important than my rights and freedom? More important than the rights and freedom of millions of people who have done nothing but commit the "crime" of being born an "other"?

Absolutely awesome.

[bettyellen]

102. I want to kick it till every Sanders suporter gives it a HELL NO!

I feel like they deserve the opportunity to do so, and it would be a healing moment for DU.

[gollygee]

153. HELL NO

I could not possibly express that strongly enough.

[stage left]

105. I'm a Sanders supporter,

And I say Hell No! I think this Op is so vile, I alerted on it, but it was allowed to stand.




UTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert
Mail Message
On Sat Sep 26, 2015, 10:31 AM you sent an alert on the following post:

What if the Religious Right allied with the Working Left?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027204545

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

This is the most vile and evil post I've ever seen on Du and i've seen a lot of vile stuff. Throwing fellow Americans under the bus is not a Democratic value. it's not even a human value.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sat Sep 26, 2015, 10:48 AM, and voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This alert has to be the dumbest I've seen in a month. The post in question is not a violation of community standards.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The premise of the OP is a bad idea, but I think it sparked a good discussion and those opposed made a great case for why the premise of this post is a bad idea which is why I'm voting to leave it.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: And people wonder why women and POC feel like they are being under the bus here at DU. And this is from people who actually think they are MORE principled. Screw that- you're not going to use us as a wedge issue and destroy the party. Go join the loser libertarians or greens. You don't belong here.
This is disgusting.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I can not agree with the alerter, in fact it speaks a true possibility.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alert message seems to bear no relationship to the post. It seems like the person alerted on the wrong post.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Go argue in the thread. Posting ridiculous ideas is not a hideable offense.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Funny, this post does not surprise me, as vile as it is. I've been expecting something along these lines since mid August. People have lost their minds. Many have just become brazen.

Thank you.
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[bettyellen]

106. Thanks for that. I'm a bit afraid this kind of thinking has bled into some very pourus minds here...

Who think we should cater to bigots just to get a win. I think a lot of the resentment we saw towards BLM confirms this. Not worth losing your souls over people. Go back to the Libertarians, if you ever actually left them. Which I doubt.

[stage left]

111. you're welcome

But I did it for me. Though, on second thought, it might be best that it was left to stand, out in the sunlight where it can be seen.This is only the second time I've alerted on anyone's post. My other alert failed, too, but the other person was finally outed as a misogynist troll and, to be honest, he was booted to much applause. I rarely vote to hide anything when I'm on a jury and I try very hard to be fair. I'm a little dismayed at some of the people I seem to be grouped with as a Sanders supporter. Politics and strange bedfellows? I've thought about pulling out of the Sanders Group. I'm a low key poster and I doubt I'd be missed. But then would I leave it to people who think like this? I don't think anybody should be thrown under the bus. Everybody is entitled to a seat on the bus. Bernie Sanders, I think, would agree with me.

[bettyellen]

115. I think you'd be doing them a favor reposting it there and asking the to weigh in....

And if they kicked you out they'd be doing you s favor. And I'd have my answer.

[stage left]

120. Good idea.

I would still support who I support. I will vote for Sanders in the primary, but as a yellow dog democrat, I will vote for the nominee. Don't want a Republican in that office.

[Number23]

132. Jurors #3 and 7 speak nothing but the truth

Nothing.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

130. I thank you for alerting

Sad to see that 5 people couldn't see the OP for the bigotry it truly is.

What disturbs me worse than the initial post is how it brought like-minded people out of hiding. People like Juror #4 scare me. "Speaks a true possibility".

These are our "allies"?

Having one person spew such things is disgusting and frightening enough. It's made even worse by knowing they do not walk alone here. Makes you wonder how many others here think it's acceptable to throw women, people of color, and LGBT's to the wolves so they can have theirs.

Human rights are not negotiable, and should never be seen as bargaining chips or chess pieces. It terrifies me that some people here - of all places - can't see that.

[Number23]

131. The answer is: LOTS

Makes you wonder how many others here think it's acceptable to throw women, people of color, and LGBT's to the wolves so they can have theirs.

[bettyellen]

135. But they're doing us wrong for world peace! And ummm increased pay.

But you know- peace comes first! *wink*

[gollygee]

156. I don't know why he thinks this would mean an end to all war

We wouldn't have corporate-backed wars like Iraq, but ALL wars? I suppose we wouldn't have wars over human rights issues either.

[bettyellen]

162. I think he wants to replace the Dem base with anybody except for us....

Ha ha, foolish.

[stage left]

172. thank you for your eloquence.

Welcome to DU. And love your avatar. I think it's apt.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

194. Thank you

[pinboy3niner]

177. The premise is ludicrous on its face

It sounds like something a 13-year-old might spitball. And then reject, because even a 13-year-old would know better.

[historylovr]

122. This Sanders supporter says Absolutey NO.

[bettyellen]

123. Thanks! I yelled at an old friend for suggesting a similar coalition and I had to say....

If you were a woman or black person you'd be fucking appalled and you have to rethink that shit right now. Just no.

[gollygee]

158. Irony

He says "Taliban Left" but think of who suffered the worst under the Taliban - women, LGBT people, and ethnic minorities.

[bettyellen]

160. Yep- makes it obvious he has given not one fuck about us, plans to continue that...

While pretending it's for the greater good.
I really think they are pulling out leg.

[gollygee]

161. I certainly hope so.

Please tell me that there aren't any Sanders supporters who would even begin to entertain this. Especially after lauding Sanders for his civil rights background so much. If you talk about that out of one side of your mouth, and you suggest throwing everyone other than straight white men under the bus out of the other side of your mouth, then you are 100% full of shit.

[RandySF]

182. And this what I feared

That Bernie's visit to Liberty University would lead some of his supporters to start courting the RR in a way that could lead to the sacrifice of individual liberties.

[bettyellen]

195. It's not as if the "back of the bus" concept hasn't already been floated here enough times.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

196. I've seen far too much of it over the years...

The "back of the bus", "go back in the closet", "it's not your time yet" stuff has been floated "enough times", as you put it. Or, better yet, too many times - because even one time is too many, if you ask me.

What the ones floating it don't get (or are hoping others won't get) is it's still bigotry. A person does not have to lower themselves to using certain "magic" words to be a bigot. Some of the worst, and nastiest, bigots I've ever met are ones who are gifted enough with words to spew their hate without resorting to the n-word, the f-word, the c-word, or any other disgusting word.

I've had at least a few "friends" in my lifetime try to preach at me to keep quiet, and to quit "holding them back" by "demanding special rights" (which, of course, are the same ones they enjoy and take for granted). They never called me a slur. It still didn't change the fact that I walked away, not only feeling discriminated again, but that the person isn't much of a friend after all.

It's 2015. It's time for people to start acting like it. No more "back of the bus", "in the closet", "seperate but equal", "know your place" or any of that crap... for ANYONE.

[randys1]

211. The other thing he doesnt understand is the religious evangelical right that he says are

really FDR Democratic Socialists underneath that they have NO intention of EVER working with ANY liberal or Black person or Muslim or Gay person.

Unless that person defers to their sick and twisted social positions.

Money means far less to the American Taliban than hate does.

[gollygee]

164. Wow

amazing response.

[Solly Mack]

176. Excellent response!

[bettyellen]

91. Love being lectured I'm somewhat closed minded about you giving away my human rights?

Are you actually fucking serious? Go find another party because women and POC are the base and we don't owe you anything. You owe us.

[stage left]

114. And the grief he has gotten

is well deserved. Social conservatives are not dangerous???????

[gollygee]

142. Holy Fuck

The rights and life of people who are not straight white men are not bargaining chips. What the hell am I reading here? This is crazy and DOES NOT BELONG at DU.

[JoePhilly]

70. But grandmother, what big eyes you have!!!!

"Leave social issues to the States" ... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[DirkGently]

74. Not the religious right, exactly. The religious center-left.

There are religious groups in America -- religious PEOPLE, anyway -- that are not entirely devoted to disturbing views on social issues.

The real vulnerability there, which I think the Pope is threatening to exploit, is that Christianity is essentially a liberalization of Abrahamic teachings, and Jesus' (supposed) teachings were chock-a-block with very lefty type stuff regarding the relationships between the rich and the poor and so forth.

What if American Christian groups stopped being hypocritical on Jesus' lefty socio-economic views, and shifted away from their rigid devotion to conservative Abrahamic social views?

Jesus was not, after all, a no-holds-barred capitalist or a champion of corporate personhood; nor did he seem particularly focused on old teachings about supposed sexual proprieties.

What if instead of obsessing over Old Testament rules about who is supposed to be having what kind of sex, Christians became more politically focused on the meek inheriting the Earth?

That could change things.

[bettyellen]

103. You're advocating people change- he's arguing the party ditch SJWs for

His convenience. Two very different things.

[DirkGently]

109. Correct. I'm not for leaving social issues

to the states either, just to be clear.

[AlbertCat]

76. Hows about....

we just leave religion out of government altogether.

[JHB]

77. Then they'd cease to be the Religious Right...

The Religious Right is thoroughly authoritarian, and since they frame everything g as a crusade against evil they are incapable of any substantial compromise.

If any significant part of it tried what you're suggesting, the harder-line factions would disown them. Except doing so would blur the "our side vs the evil side" narrative, and lead to further fragmentation. And a fragmented Religious Right is one that can't deliver supporters to politicians, so they'd cease to exist as a driving political force.

[haele]

80. Doubt it. The Religious Right thrives on the assumption of the Prosperty Gospel.

You work hard initially, then get blessed with success because of your righteous status as a Good Christian Person, so by the time your first kid enters school, you'll be in management or own your own prosperous business.
If you're still "working" by the time you're thirty, the RR Gawd is punishing you for your poor choices and your apparent disrespect of "His Awesomeness", so you need to learn your lesson. If you fail in business, you're not right with the Lord and have to work your way out yourself. To the seventh generation, if need be...

Tough Love, "Taking Responsibility" and Rugged Individualism - that's what the RR Gawd is all about. Not exactly in line with the "work together to thrive together" view of the Working Left.

On edit, your post is more like "well, what if the Conservative, Moderate, and Liberal real citizens all got together, sang 'Kumbaya' in a national drum-circle, agreed to leave any "social issues" to the states just to get together to throw off the Corporate Oligarchy - and no one could beat them!" That didn't even happen with the American Revolution.
Do you really want to end up with a patchwork of 3/5ths legal rights conditions, or 70 years of smoldering "y'all can't tell me what to do" fiefdoms of entrenched powers that end up in a second US Civil War - because the social issues are what destroy countries far more than economic issues.

No economic justice without social justice. The Religious Right can't live with social justice, because that undermines their worldview that they are the chosen ones, the elect, the right hands of their fearful and fearsome Gawd. No group that has that much investment in maintaining a Status Quo hierarchy will ever risk the corruption of their prophets and lessen their profits.

Haele

[stage left]

81. No, no, a thousand times no!!!

Crazies are already having their way in the southern states. Women's rights are already being torn down and trashed and the religious right has made it clear that they want to keep women barefoot and pregnant. They love to keep minorities down, too. And immigrants. And they could care less about children once they get past the fetal stage. Oh, and to hell with the planet. The rapture is coming soon. The end of days. Why should we do anything about global warming? That's their thinking. They're quite clearly insane. That would be an alliance made and forged in hell. Oh, hell, No!

[bettyellen]

87. Post this in the Sander group- they seem like they have no comment in GD and I for one....

Would LOVE to get their take on it.
I dare you.

[Hortensis]

92. What to create The United Theocratic Fascist States?

The religious right is made up of anti-democratic, aggressively hostile, xenophobic, intolerant extremists with a natural fascist bent. Putting them together with the only kind of left wingers who could find commonality with them (radical extremists) would be a disaster for everyone else. Assuming the alliance didn't dissolve in a bloodbath first, of course.

How about an alliance between groups that are capable of working with others toward a common good? Most liberals are strongly that way, including the religious left, and most moderate traditional and economic conservatives. THIS is the alliance that created the New Deal from the disaster that forced change.

[KG]

97. I lulz'ed

[greatauntoftriplets]

98. WTF?

[Electric Monk]

99. The problem with trying to compromise with the Religious Right, in a nutshell

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027205792

[Marr]

104. What would the impetus be for the religious right?

Leaving social issues to the states is not what they want. They want to push their agenda nationally. And of course, their whole mythology is now thoroughly intertwined with things like trickle down economics and prosperity gospel. Seems like a lose/lose for them.

I can imagine the working class, non-religious right allying with the working left, but not the religious right.

[bettyellen]

107. It's nothing but a big fuck you to women and POC.....

Let's fuck over the most reliable Dem voters because we don't like the way they are polling. It's idiocy, but certainly emblematic of the way a lot of people here seem to think. The ends justify the Bern.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

110. What evidence do you have that members of the religious right are hostile...

What evidence do you have that members of the religious right are hostile to the existing economic order?


Thank you in advance.

[stage left]

113. Great Question.

I've got the idea from the ones I know(and they're all around me here) that they're just fine with the existing economic order.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

117. The whole argument seems to be built on a faulty premise...

The whole argument seems to be built on a faulty premise, that religious conservatives are hostile to the existing economic order.

[historylovr]

112. No. Not a good idea at all.

The religious right is hostile to women and to the LGBTQ community. There's no way I could support allying with that group.

[stage left]

119. And to people of color.

If they would stop that kind of thing, I could consider an alliance. But then they wouldn't be the religious right.

[historylovr]

121. Indeed they are, yes.

[zappaman]

116. Are you sure you're at the right site?

[bettyellen]

126. i guess women and POC shouldn't be insulted by the "low info" crap....

Since there's a plan afoot to capture idiotic RWers now? I dunno man, I think that pooch is screwed. Everyone on the planet knows that Bernie marched with King. Lol. Let's switch out the Dem base for bigoted morons, yeah that's the ticket!

[IngridsLittleAngel]

129. I wish it were that simple.

I wish it were as simple as bigots being attracted by a candidate - even if it's a candidate I support, such as this case. But it's not. This is a problem that's existed on DU since well before Bernie threw his hat into the ring. This is a problem that's existed within the Democratic party since before there was even a DU.

I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's a case of people like the OP infilitrating the party because they're trying to sabotage it, or because they like what the Democratic party offers - and want it offered ONLY to them.

Even before Bernie became a candidate and BLM got started, we had plenty of people here worshipping at the altar of George Zimmerman. Obviously, that is not the only blatant and overt case of racism I've seen here, but, it's definitely the one that comes to mind first.

Blaming LGBT's for Democratic losses has gone on here since day one. Even in cases of Democratic wins, we've seen LGBT's beaten over the head with a four-letter word ("pony&quot for "raining on our parade."

Sadly, there's been far too much racism, misogyny, homophobia and transphobia here over the years. I don't think it comes down to this candidate or that candidate being in the race.

I've known people in real life who go on and on about what "staunch Democrats" they are, because of how the party might benefit THEM. Everyone else? Screw them. They're on their own. Even worse, some of them go on about how "those feminists need to keep quiet" and "those militant blacks are making us look bad" and "those gays are holding us back". Because, yes, these sick people either latch onto a few issues of the Democrat party, or wish to exploit it, or are really Republicans and just ashamed to admit it. So they take their "I want mine, fuck the rest of you" shit into this party and drag it down for ALL of us.

Hell, sadly, I even know a few who left the party after 2008 after being in it for decades. You know why? Racism. They were so pissed off that Barack Obama won, and Barack Obama's skin isn't light enough, that come 2012 they were firmly and loudly on the bandwagon for Palin, Romney, and anyone else who had the "right qualifications" (skin color) for the job. People who were die-hard fans of the Clintons in the 90's and 2000's (and, I don't think Clinton and Obama are drastically far apart on many of the issues) were now up in arms because we had a "socialist" in the White House.

To them I say: I may have been born in the morning, but, I wasn't born THIS morning!

This isn't a Bernie thing. This isn't a Hillary thing. This isn't an Obama thing. What it comes down to is people who are far too right on social issues, and devoid of empathy, dragging the party down and holding ALL of us back. Yes, I wish every Democrat in office, or running for office, would have a Kurt Cobain moment (where he told Nirvana's racist and sexist and homophobic fans to go away, that he didn't want nor need them.) Things would be better if they did, no doubt about that. But the sad reality is, the bigoted views of such people are their own. They own them. What they say and think is on them. Sadly, yes, what they say and think hurts ALL of us and drags us down, too.

No matters who wins the primary, or even the general election, they'll still walk amongst us - in society, in the party, even on DU.

I'm far more worried about putting an end to their bigotry and hatred once and for all than I am trying to figure out who brought them here myself.

I hope this makes sense to you. I'm not even sure it makes sense to me, honestly. I guess I'm just saying we've had a problem for a while now of "Democrats" whose social views are more in line with Ted Cruz's than Ted Kennedy's, sadly.

[bettyellen]

133. I thought this OP might be a parody at first, but I see it being discussed in the Sanders group and

No one is talking about the inherent bigotry in the idea expressed on this OP. Women, GLBTand POC don't merit any discussion- just a vague desire for "separation of church and state". Interesting the lack of outrage.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

139. I wish it were parody.

I've come to learn over the years that very few things that are stated out of arrogance and bigotry are parody. The OP most certainly was not, sadly.

[bettyellen]

143. So you think the claim to just want world peace was for real? I don't know...

Maybe I'm too cynical but he may have well have suggested sacrificing virgins too. I thought he might just want to make DU look stupid.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

171. That I'm not sure of.

Maybe it was "world peace for me, not for thee". Maybe that part was just BS. But, sadly, I think their whole bit about sacrificing a few gro, errr, "states" for "everyone else" was not a parody at all. I think they meant it. Worse yet, it would seem they're not the only one who feels that way.

[greatauntoftriplets]

140. The word that comes to my mind about the lack of outrage is more like disgusting.

[bettyellen]

118. Since this is obviously a strategy for Sanders outlined here, why don't you post it in his group?

[bklyncowgirl]

124. This would require compromise and that is a very, very difficult thing

Let's take the abortion issue. I've always thought that the best compromise solution was to say that abortion is a moral choice that must be left up to the individual woman without the government getting involved, the best compromise phrase was Bill Clinton's "safe, legal and rare" but that will not satisfy those who, like my late mother, believe with all their hearts that abortion is murder nor does it satisfy those who feel strongly that women should not be judged for their choices and who take offense that some view it as a moral issue or even a serious personal choice. Two strong views--life and death views if you want to put it that way. Two diametrically opposed conclusions.

The problem, in my opinion, with leaving it all up to the states is that while people with wealth and/or marketable skills could vote with their feet, many others would be trapped. Let's face it. It's the poor who suffer. Wealthy women who wanted abortions and rich gay people, especially rich gay men did quite nicely during the 1950s. It's women who couldn't afford to jet off to Europe to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy safely or gay men who would never be allowed into exclusive gentlemen's clubs where wealthy closeted men could meet attractive young men without fear of the authorities who suffered and sometimes died.

I completely agree that a less strident tone all around would be a welcome thing and there are ways to compromise on language without compromising on principle but as you've seen it's difficult, very difficult.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

125. Leave social issues to the states? States like.......Alabama

where fetuses can get court-appointed advocates?

No disrespect intended but, ummmmm......hell no!!!

We have public opinion on our side for most of our issues/concerns but we mainly need to figure out better ways to get more (of our) people to the polls IMHO. We don't want nor need the religious right's "help".

[tishaLA]

127. this thread is a trip nt

[MohRokTah]

128. I love that the OP got a hide on a post in their thread.

Now they don't have to answer to the vile evil suggestion they made.

Anybody who would consider allying with the theofascists are my enemies.

[gollygee]

154. The whole thread should have been hidden

I am really disturbed by this.

[MohRokTah]

159. I guess 4 out of 3 thought this was a viable option.

[PeaceNikki]

163. Plus there were two juries on his "Taliban Left" replies.

1-6 and 2-5 on those. So eleven jurors think that's an appropriate response to those who disagree with him.

[MohRokTah]

165. I think somebody is scared and are looking for allies for their candidate.

[bettyellen]

167. It's a perfect solution for those already angered by black and female voters!

And we both know there are dozens here who fit that description here! Don't see a single one here in this thread, lol.

[bettyellen]

166. It's a game to some people. They pretend to be altruistic and virtuous

As did the OP, but in reality it's all about baiting other people. They're just playing stupid games at this point.

[betsuni]

134. "I'd like world peace, freedom from corporate rule and economic justice for all US Americans,

and social justice for, like, the residents of 49 out of our 50 United States." It's interview time at a libertarian beauty contest!

[PeaceNikki]

137. OK, that made me laugh.

[pinboy3niner]

144. Perfect reply!

[Solly Mack]

169. lol! Excellent!

[stage left]

173. Ha!I wonder which southern state he'd choose for the lucky one?

South Carolina or Georgia? Libertarian this one I believe through and through. Why doesn't he go and support Rand Paul?

[betsuni]

187. South Carolina.

I feel a little bad making fun of Miss Teen South Carolina 2007 (does anyone remember?), but at that age I was an idiot too, and this was truly spectacular -- I'm especially fond of "U.S. Americans":

[stage left]

198. yes, I do.

I will never deny that there are some stupid people in my state.

James Petigru, a lone Upstate SC hold out against secession, said it best: South Carolina is too small for a Republic and too big for an insane asylum.

[WinkyDink]

136. "Corporations support...the Democrats (sic) social agenda"??????????? SINCE WHEN?

[bettyellen]

157. They probably noticed some TV commercials geared toward all us or something....

Because it can't be our pay checks, lol.

[NightWatcher]

138. Let's get those who practice willful ignorance and believe in fairy tales to think critically?

Let me know how that works out for you.

[Warren DeMontague]

168. because the religious right doesn't work that way.

and as others have noted, ceding social issues to theocrats isn't exactly defensible.

[stage left]

174. it's completely indefensible.

Unless you want to live in the world of The Handmaid's Tale.

[marym625]

175. It's called third-way and it is killing us.

In what world do corporations get a vote? In what world do corporations support "democratic social values"?

This is, frankly, disgusting.

[LittleBlue]

178. That would basically be a doomsday scenario for the Koch crowd

They spend billions keeping us divided and thus their wealth is safe.

[RandySF]

180. I'm sorry but this the craziest thing I've read yet on here.

First of all, you're assuming that the Religious Right supports the agenda of the Working Left, and they don't. Next, you would be exposing women, children LGBT and religious minorities to unimaginable harm should they ever get full control. No, I will NOT take that chance.

[Ed Suspicious]

184. I get the feeling your heart is in the right place, but this is a very Republicanesque idea.

States rights has been the argument that has enabled the oppression of African Americans for centuries. No, sorry, I cannot agree with your approach.

[RandySF]

185. I'm going to rec this

So that anyone who might be thinking of the same plan will get an idea how ridiculous it is.

[pinboy3niner]

189. In a post some years ago, I once labeled this phenomenon as a "perverse rec"

[Iggo]

200. I've been known to call it a Train Rec.

[pampango]

188. They may be temporary 'allies' on issues like TPP which the tea party opposes too but

any more than that I don't see any basis for cooperation on an economic agenda. And obviously not on a social agenda.

If liberals want to pass or defeat a particular bill, we often don't really care who joins us in accomplishing that goal. (If we need a few votes from republicans, does it matter whether they come from the 'anti-everything' or the 'establishment' wing of their party?) That only makes us 'allies' with the religious right to the same extent that the US was an 'ally' of the USSR in WWII. You achieve your immediate goal then you become opponents again.

[YabaDabaNoDinoNo]

190. No F-ing Way The Religious have one goal and that is Theocracy. They will lie, cheat and even kill

to achieve their goal.

History has proven this time and time again.

Religion has NO pLace in politics at all.

Keep ALL religion on private property where it belongs, no place else.

[Rex]

197. What if unicorns started flying out of my butt?

Probably hurt right?

[stage left]

199. The wings are all right.

It's the horns that get you.

[Iggo]

202. Sign me up!!!

[onecaliberal]

203. I have nothing in common with those racist hating bigoted assholes

Their fake Christianity, pretend morals who they only reserve for everyone else. Women will NEVER go for this, I don't see how black people or Mexican people would either.

[Android3.14]

204. My knee-jerk reaction is to snort with derision

But then I considered Bernie's speech to Liberty students, and I think you might have something.

While we may disagree on many social issues, we probably agree on larger issues that will benefit both groups (wages, infrastructure, healthcare, environment, etc.) and leave the underlying differences relatively unaffected.

[geek tragedy]

208. funny how some fake progressives are EAGER to trash the rights of minorities

purportedly in order to chase a unicorn alliance with the American Taliban.

[workinclasszero]

210. The "Religious right" are anti-freedom

They want to impose their very own sharia laws on the whole country.

How the heck can the workin left ally with that?

Thats scary.