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ariesgem

(1,634 posts)
Sat Sep 26, 2015, 10:05 PM Sep 2015

Animals Rights Activists Steal Homeless Man’s Dog, Sparking Outrage (VIDEO)



A video posted online showing activists violently stealing a dog from a homeless man has sparked outrage around the world. A bystander filmed the three activists as they tore the dog away from the man, as he tried to fend off their attack.

The bystander uploaded the video to YouTube, the description reads:

“Three persons representing the association “Cause Animal Nord” and who also represent the Act, they have taken violently, without pity a homeless man his friend – a small dog, even the homeless cried with them and he begged these three people! I was shocked when I saw this scene in the streets of Paris and also in the first day of European Heritage!”

The group posted a video of the dog, which they have renamed Vegan, to their Facebook page. The group has faced a massive backlash for their actions, with hundreds of commenters claiming that the theft of the dog was not just. They write on their Facebook page:

“This is Vegan… (a dog kept by a Roma who drugged it on the Parisian sidewalks), in great shape this morning, she can finally run around and not be attached with a piece of rope… Enjoy life to the full.”

“This is Vegan… (a dog kept by a Roma who drugged it on the Parisian sidewalks), in great shape this morning, she can finally run around and not be attached with a piece of rope… Enjoy life to the full.”

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/09/26/animal-rights-are-human-rights/

I'm all for animal rights but this is just horrifying. These people have no compassion for this poor man and his companion. Shameful
18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Animals Rights Activists Steal Homeless Man’s Dog, Sparking Outrage (VIDEO) (Original Post) ariesgem Sep 2015 OP
That was a tough watch TubbersUK Sep 2015 #1
Shameful, nauseating. Bonobo Sep 2015 #2
i once read that dogs of homeless people are some of the happiest dogs around Joe the Revelator Sep 2015 #3
Just about as ridiculous as their PETA counterpart... Earth_First Sep 2015 #4
The difference being PETA would kill the dog within 24 hours Major Nikon Sep 2015 #13
Disgusting. Behind the Aegis Sep 2015 #5
Sadly in many cities there are people who use the pups to beg for money. They ARE often drugged, underahedgerow Sep 2015 #6
If the animal was indeed being abused, the authorities should have been notified. branford Sep 2015 #7
You have to realize that the authorities are powerless to do anything. If they don't witness or underahedgerow Sep 2015 #8
I stand by my comments. branford Sep 2015 #9
And I stand behind mine. I have no problem breaking the law in such minor incidents as this underahedgerow Sep 2015 #11
Just don't be surprised or complain when people you really don't agree with branford Sep 2015 #15
I certainly answered you, I told you the limit of the legal authority. It's very real, underahedgerow Sep 2015 #16
Yes, otherwise this is a form of vigilantism. Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #14
Lol Jesus Malverde Sep 2015 #10
None of the bystanders tried to help him??? Omaha Steve Sep 2015 #12
So they save the dog Shankapotomus Sep 2015 #17
That guy "living on the street" has been there for years. Unlike the USA, such as in Los Angeles underahedgerow Sep 2015 #18

TubbersUK

(1,439 posts)
1. That was a tough watch
Sat Sep 26, 2015, 10:36 PM
Sep 2015

As the article says, that group needs to provide a bit more justification for their actions than a throwaway Facebook comment.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
2. Shameful, nauseating.
Sat Sep 26, 2015, 10:56 PM
Sep 2015

That dog was likely the only thing that made him happy.

Great way to show concern for dogs over humans.

Fuck the old homeless and hungry gypsy, eh.

Sanctimonious fucks.

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
3. i once read that dogs of homeless people are some of the happiest dogs around
Sat Sep 26, 2015, 11:41 PM
Sep 2015

Because they live a nomadic life that they are instinctively wanting, are the center piece of their owners life, and because they loved. These particular animal rights activists give everyone who supports animals a bad name. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Earth_First

(14,910 posts)
4. Just about as ridiculous as their PETA counterpart...
Sun Sep 27, 2015, 05:04 AM
Sep 2015

I am just as compassionate towards the justice of animal rights as many of us are, however there is a great deal of compassion missing from the treatment of this gentleman and his companion in their unfortunate situation.

A much better option for this organization is to offer veterinarian services to these companions, to ensure that they are healthy companions and do not pose a health risk to other companions or the public.

However, unfortunately there are organizations out there that claim they are in defense of animal rights, but would much rather create a scene in order to create their 'public awareness' and stroke their own egos.

How utterly frustrating...

I hope that these two are reunited soon.

Behind the Aegis

(53,944 posts)
5. Disgusting.
Sun Sep 27, 2015, 05:15 AM
Sep 2015

Also, sounds like it may have been racially motivated (Antiziganism) ("a dog kept by a Roma who drugged it on the Parisian sidewalks&quot .

underahedgerow

(1,232 posts)
6. Sadly in many cities there are people who use the pups to beg for money. They ARE often drugged,
Sun Sep 27, 2015, 05:59 AM
Sep 2015

mis-handled and abused and very poorly cared for; it's part of the scam: people feel so sorry for the pup that they'll pay an outrageous sum to rescue it.

The Roma in paris are particularly fond of this ruse. Over the course of a year or so I watched one particular woman on the corner near my local shop turn over several pups like this. She wasn't bad with hers, I have to say, but I have seen real abuse out there.

There was a guy in West Hollywood who specialized in selling pups on the street, and he was a real asshole. He was seen hitting the puppies, often got in verbal confrontations and caused a lot of problems, jacking people for hundreds of dollars for his ill, underfed and mistreated puppies that he got for free.

We gradually outlawed the sale of live animals on the street, and got LA to cooperate as well and he went away, I think the Venice boardwalk.

Legally no one could take his property, and what the people in Paris did, snatching that pup, was illegal, but sadly warranted. He's a regular to the area and is routinely seen with new pups all the time.

There are indeed homeless people with genuine pets, and it's true, they are often quite well cared for and very devoted companions. I used to see one homeless fellow pushing his elderly and handicapped dog in a wheeled cart. He'd bring her to the park on quiet mornings and carefully lift her out and set her in the grass to do her business and have a nice nap in the shade. She was really old and feeble, poor thing, and he cared so much and so well for her... After a while I didn't see him anymore and assume she passed away... but she was genuinely loved, even if she didn't have a roof over her head.

Don't feel sorry for this guy in the video, he wasn't in it for a life long buddy, he was in it for the money.

 

branford

(4,462 posts)
7. If the animal was indeed being abused, the authorities should have been notified.
Sun Sep 27, 2015, 08:52 AM
Sep 2015

It was not acceptable to steal the dog and act as judge and jury (or France's civil law equivalent).

Like all vigilantism, acts like these should be thoroughly condemned.

underahedgerow

(1,232 posts)
8. You have to realize that the authorities are powerless to do anything. If they don't witness or
Sun Sep 27, 2015, 10:38 AM
Sep 2015

see & have evidence of abuse, they can't do anything. All Animal control authorities in the civilized world can only supervise a minimum standard of safety and well being for an animal. It amounts to adequate shelter, food and water. In some areas it's thankfully illegal to keep an animal tied outside, but not in most, but it must be allowed a certain amount of freedom of movement. Cages must permit the animal to be able to stand up and turn around, and of course they must be clean. The animal's habitat must also be clean and free of feces and debris and any dangerous materials.

That's it. Without evidence, the authorities cannot act on reports of abuse without evidence (such as injury to the animal) or signs of neglect or starvation. They can advise and counsel, but taking an animal away is almost impossible, especially in the case of the Roma and other homeless people.

I have to say that I've liberated a couple of animals that were being seriously neglected. One was a lovely Solomon Island Skink that my landlord at the time had. She'd bought him for her kids, who were only with her part time. When the kids weren't there, he was completely neglected, often without food and water and his cage was filthy for months at a time. He had a habit of escaping, often being found weeks later. I watched him growing skinnier as time went by, and I felt so bad for him. I had a good friend who loved lizards and she was happy to take him, and bought a HUGE tank for him with all the cool gear any lizard in captivity could ever want. And one day, he just disappeared again. His human didn't even notice for almost 3 weeks, so I felt absolutely no guilt other than taking what wasn't mine. He recovered from his neglect and lived at least another 10 years with my friend, a long and happy, healthy life.

Another was a pup that was tied out on a chain in his back yard, in the dirt with no shelter. Our back gardens overlooked each other; I watched him for months and he had no human interaction at all. I had called animal control on them a couple times and there was nothing they could do, he was being provided the barest, basic essentials. All they could do was 'counsel' them, which I understood. But it did no good. So one day when they were away I slipped through the fence and grabbed him and took him to the shelter where I knew the people. They promised the best care and adoption, which was at least a chance for the little guy, he was very cute and sociable. He had a better chance there than tied on a chain, in the sun, in the dirt, alone and neglected.

Sometimes, all we can do for our animal friends is the best we can, when we can. It's our duty as guardians... sometimes doing the right thing means breaking the law a little for the right reasons...

 

branford

(4,462 posts)
9. I stand by my comments.
Sun Sep 27, 2015, 10:58 AM
Sep 2015

You are not only condoning acting as judge and jury, you have engaged in the practice, under the false belief that you personally get to decide what's "better" for any particular animal and then break the law to accomplish your goals. It's the very definition of self-righteous vigilantism.

Moreover, you claim about needing to personally witness alleged abuse truly rings hollow. The dog in the OP was apparently so regularly and routinely available and visible that the group was able to easily plan the theft. It is hardly impractical to suggest that they should have called the authorities rather than break the law. Further, I'm quite confident that animal rights groups know how to operate ubiquitous video cameras that could have been used to thoroughly document any purported abuse. The group engaged in the theft because they wanted to, certainly not because no other options existed (assuming this even was a case of abuse, which is at best uncertain).

Simply, both the group in the OP and apparently you think that your own judgment outweighs the interests and opinions of everyone else, no less the clear law. It does not.

It's these types of actions that make groups like PETA distrusted and laughable and cause difficulties for, and skepticism about, genuine, law-abiding animal welfare advocates and organizations.

underahedgerow

(1,232 posts)
11. And I stand behind mine. I have no problem breaking the law in such minor incidents as this
Sun Sep 27, 2015, 11:59 AM
Sep 2015

when the welfare of an animal is at stake. Judge and jury? Sure! I have no problem taking the law into my own hands when the hands of those it's charged with are tied. What are my consequences? Slim to none. And the dog gets to have a happy home and away from the cruelty it was subjected to.

Sometimes we have to be the authority and take charge of a situation rather than stand by and do nothing. Some of us have the balls to do it and some of us don't.

I'm not a fan of authority. My motto has always been 'it's better to ask forgiveness than permission'. It's worked out well enough.

 

branford

(4,462 posts)
15. Just don't be surprised or complain when people you really don't agree with
Sun Sep 27, 2015, 12:25 PM
Sep 2015

similarly take the law into their own hands for the purported welfare of others.

I believe your rationale has been offered by the likes of abortion bombers and similar conservative drek to stop "genocide." It's also the defense offered by animal rights terrorists who destroy important labs and other private and government property. However, luckily these individuals often suffer serious consequences, including well deserved decades in prison, with the hearty approval of most people from across the political spectrum.

You also failed to counter my observation about how the authorities could easily have become involved in the OP story or yours. The talk of the alleged lack of first-hand witnesses was simply a pro forma excuse to justify your actions, obviously because the authorities might not have done what you wanted or that the majority of people probably would not have agreed with your opinion or goals.

It's Democrats who so openly and cavalierly believe that the law doesn't really apply to them that justify the worst excesses of Republican safety and security theater that destroy lives and erode liberties, including support for overly aggressive policing, hair-trigger violent self-defense, and draconian prison sentences.


underahedgerow

(1,232 posts)
16. I certainly answered you, I told you the limit of the legal authority. It's very real,
Sun Sep 27, 2015, 02:18 PM
Sep 2015

I dealt directly as a public servant with Animal Control for more than 10 years in the USA. I passed several laws favoring both the welfare of animals and people in regards to animals, hence my genuine knowledge of the limits of the law and what they can do in this particular matter.

The fact is that the authorities can't stand around in plain clothes, staking out a smelly homeless dude, waiting to see if he's abusing a puppy. They have more important things to do, especially in Paris, such as having coffee and cigarette breaks and 2 hour lunch. Yeah, that's what the police are like in Paris, believe me. In the USA, in Los Angeles, Animal Control is stretched to the limit, being a very low priority for the taxpayers and very underfunded. There was ONE Animal Control officer handling West Hollywood, Beverly Hills and Santa Monica, and he had to drive up from the South Bay to respond to any incidents at all. The police have no authority to intervene in animal related incidents unless they witness violence or neglect, in which case they call Animal Control.

I have been in fact, a first hand witness to this guy, as I live in Paris and know the Chatelet area really well. I've seen him there with a number of dogs over the years.

Making this all a partisan political thing is just falling off the chair. My POV has nothing to do with either or any party, it's just how I live my own life, and I sleep perfectly fine at night with my actions. I have never harmed anyone in words or actions, ever. I'm a very nice, kind person, regardless of my personal affiliations or lack thereof.

I find you're very confusing by staunchly advocating for upholding the letter of the law, yet disparaging those who use that same body of law for their own gain. I don't see Democrats believing en masse that 'the law doesn't apply to them'. Not sure where you get that concept from and how you then stretch it to blame them for the Republican narrow and racist ideals that fill the US prisons with their destructive pro-gun legislation that is the root of aggressive policing, hair-trigger violent self defense and draconian prison sentencing... although I believe the prison sentencing is draconian only in regards to violence against women and children, drugs criminalization and people of color in all aspects.

underahedgerow

(1,232 posts)
18. That guy "living on the street" has been there for years. Unlike the USA, such as in Los Angeles
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 12:31 AM
Sep 2015

where the population of homeless people in the downtown city center numbers at least 50,000; there aren't that many homeless people in all of Europe, unless you now count the recent "emigres' from the middle east. They are being processed into the populations in various countries at the highest urgency.

In Europe, particularly France, the true homeless population is limited to people with serious mental and addiction issues. (This doesn't count the Roma. They have homes of their own engineering, such as camping sites and even hotels, this is their chosen way of life.) If he's living on the street, it's basically his "choice" such as it were. Chances are pretty good that he doesn't even live on the street, most likely he has a modest home of sorts and this is how he makes his living, peddling puppies on the street. It's all speculative, I'm just pointing out the likely scenarios.

France has countless outreach programs for addictions and mental health, health care and housing. So much so that the public debt is stretched to the limit. It's all relatively accessible for anyone in need. It's not perfect, no public system is, subject to all the possible variables, but it's a lot better safety net for the population than the USA is able to offer.

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