The American sense of justice and morality is dead. Do you agree?

[Greatest I am]

The American sense of justice and morality is dead. Do you agree?

http://www.c-span.org/video/?328079-1/senator-bernie-sanders-ivt-remarks-liberty-university

Vigilantism is driven by a sense of justice and morality. That sense is feared by our oligarch and plutocrat owners. That vigilantism, I think, is what used to keep the politician in line and our oligarch owners more generous towards their underlings/us.

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Justice and the American Dream were driven by a sense of justice and morality. That sense of justice and morality has been replaced, at the top of the demographic pyramid, and our new owners, by the new sense that the acquisition of wealth is now the moral and just ideal. The oligarchs’ new God is now money.

The rich, in their gated communities, think themselves secure and think that their huge wealth will protect them and isolate them from justice. They do not fear vigilantes as they seem to think that the heart and desire for justice is no longer in the average American heart.

Are they correct?

Are we all willing to continue in such a system where the rich, while driving by the poor, not only do not care for them or their plight, but also take what little the poor have as they drive on by?

I call that theft with the collusion and help of their political elected slaves, eh, politicians, of course.

Regards
DL

[CrispyQ]

1. We no longer value community.

We put the rights of the individual over the needs of the community. To a degree, the country has always appealed to the 'rugged individualist,' but it seems since Reagan the focus has been entirely on individual rights & fuck the community. My husband was reading an article to me this morning about Kentucky state legislators claiming that if they are not allowed to accept gifts & money from lobbyist then it is infringement of their 1st & 14th amendment rights. No shit. If they are not allowed to accept bribes, their rights are being violated.

https://theintercept.com/2015/09/24/state-senator-files-lawsuit-says-ban-lobbyist-gifts-violates-freedom-speech/

The everything-for-profit model has fucked the entire world & the planet. We are so fucked - we being humanity.

[The2ndWheel]

4. There isn't much of a community to value

It doesn't seem like it's just about rugged individualism or Reagan, but it's more how we want society. We like social mobility for one. Move here and there as we need or want. Where is the opportunity for community when that's the case?

We like community, except when we don't. We like breaking up into smaller and smaller groups. Especially as more options for more different tastes and desires has become available.

We don't need people as much anymore in a direct way. Need help moving? Not only are friends and family probably too busy with their own lives to help, but nobody really wants to. What happens? You hire people to help you move. That provides jobs and circulates money, far better for the economy than getting a couple friends giving up their own Saturday for some beer. But it also decreases non-monetary bonds between people, which is what you need for a sense of community.

A big part of that is energy being cheap enough that we need other people less. You don't need help to carry something if you can just throw it in a car.

I think it's more than just rugged individualism and Reagan. Who is willing to give up some individual right that they want for the greater good? It's easy to give up something that you don't mind giving up, or certainly telling others what they should be willing to give up for all of us. What are you not willing to give up though? If there's some individual right you're not willing to sacrifice, it's tough to get other people to not do the same.

There's just that constant push and pull between the individual and the collective. Both involve difficult choices, and human beings seem to have a difficult time with difficult decisions, because we can't agree on who gets to play God. Who gives anyone the right to make my choices for me?

[Greatest I am]

12. There is much of a community to value. Just look with different eyes.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

7. No argument.

I have another O.P. running on women in the Muslim community and most so far are showing the type of self-centeredness you speak of.

Men seem to be leading in the destruction you speak of.

I am a man but think it is a good thing that women are slowly taking everything over.

Regards
DL

[Cal Carpenter]

11. Your other OP about Muslims is racist tripe from the likes of Fox News

talking about "No Go Zones" and other garbage. Take your hypocritical moralizing somewhere else.

[Dustlawyer]

10. Oh wait, they are upset they cannot get "more free stuff?"

What is that they accuse minorities of, always wanting handouts?

[Greatest I am]

13. Greedy poor people who want food and medical aid should all be shunned and shot.

Regards
DL

[Stargazer99]

2. After this nation let my daughter die from lack of medical care-I'm ready for the pitchforks solutio

[Greatest I am]

8. When vigilantees rise, it will be drones and grenades.

I hope the rich react and do the right think before that happens.

Lest we forget ----

Regards
DL

[BlueJazz]

9. Save me a pitchfork. I'd do it for the good of all people..and a part of me will, I admit, enjoy it.

[Bluenorthwest]

3. I do not agree, I think America is in process of developing a sense of justice and ethics that it

has to a great degree lacked in the very past you seem to see as superior to the now. Was this 'justice and morality' the rule during slavery? Jim Crow? When women lacked property and voting rights? When LGBT people were hounded, jailed and murdered? Was moral justice operating when the FHA demanded whites only neighborhoods?
When was this thing present to be lost? You can not lose what you do not have.

[Greatest I am]

14. I think our lifestyles have reduced direct dependance on each other and we have forgotten that we

are all in this together, alone.

We need community and have forgotten that we are a part of one.

Regards
DL

[cloudbase]

5. Institutionally, it's on life support,

but thrives within many individuals.

[Greatest I am]

15. Then those individuals must collectively act.

For evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.

Regards
DL

[Orrex]

6. How so? Because the wealthy class is made up of assholes? When was that not the case?

For at least as long as wealth has been a thing, the wealthy as a class have tyranized the poor, with only brief and rare exceptions.

This will continue to be true as long as wealth, in some form or another, continues to exist.

[Greatest I am]

16. I do not agree with your last.

Knowledge of the real demographics and heartless abuses from the rich are getting quite visible and as people lose hope, they will rebel. Everyone can afford a drone and grenade.

Time will tell who does the dying.

Regards
DL

[Orrex]

19. Well, I don't advocate murder, so there's that.

And the ruling class doesn't need to destroy every person with a grudge; they only need to inconvenience enough of those grudge-bearers to a degree sufficient to discourage other people from acting on their own grudges.

I hope that you're correct, other than the murder stuff. But honestly I don't see it happening as long as long as anything like wealth disparity continues to exist.

[mmonk]

17. 100%

[Fumesucker]

18. You could ask Martin Shkreli while he narrows down the location of his ass

[OneGrassRoot]

20. Our values and priorities are totally FUBAR...

Yes, I do believe that, as a society and citizenry, our sense of justice and morality are on life support, if not dead.

I'm hoping all the pope's talk of the Common Good will raise awareness of how skewed our values have become as a nation.

I posted about the Common Good yesterday:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027202717