So what if he met Kim Davis. Pope met many people while in the US that I personally do not like

[LynneSin]

Probably some US Politician pulled some rank and managed to bring Kim Davis in there to make a political stunt. Whoop-to-do. And Pope Francis is a polite person who was probably nice to her and is an overall supporter of Conscientious objector in general, which is the statement that he made. And btw accommodations have been made to allow her to practice Conscientious objection but Kim actually violated that which is a whole other post.

But I still actually have an appreciation for Pope Francis even though I know there are many issues where we might not agree such as Choice and Civil Rights for the LGBT community (Which btw he has become much more lenient on that issue than any Pope before him). I never saw Pope Francis as the new hero of the Progressive movement nor as the new religious leader I wanted to follow. But what I did see is someone who might be able to start moving religion in general out of this Tax-Free money making machine and possibly into what it really should be which is an organization that was meant to help other people and treat others as equals.

The fact that he is out there talking about doing a better job of helping the poor, treating immigrants better and doing something about Climate Change - this guy has a HUGE platform and audience. He spoke about this message not just in front of millions of people from around the globe but also to our US Congress and the UN General Assembly too. He didn't talk about his stance on Abortion or Anti-LGBT rights, he may have opinions that differ than most of ours but he also thinks those are issues less important. In fact he made it a point to shake the hand of one person only while he walked into Congress and that was John Kerry, a man denied Communion because of his Pro-choice stance. The Pope has also demoted a high ranking priest who has repeatedly spoken out against the LGBT community. Sure these are just little things in these areas but for the Catholic Church it's baby steps in the right direction.

As for Kim Davis, who cares. The Pope has no right to dictate laws in this country just express opinions. She is welcome to be a Conscientious objector for her cause and the state of Kentucky has given her provisions to not sign her name on those marriage licenses for LGBT couples. However she has violated even those provisions by interfering with the clerks who are handling those licenses. Let's hope next election cycle finds her unemployed.

But as for the Pope don't let the meeting with Kim Davis damper the overall message he brought to the United States. Someone shoved this woman in front of him and he was polite to her. But he also stood in front of our congress and told them to stop being greed assholes giving away tax dollars to the wealthiest 1% and start taking care of the poor too. He's not a bad person and as a Christian who doesn't believe in organized religion in general I still like the guy, I think he can help make this planet a better place because he focuses on important issues that will make this world better.

[LynneSin]

7. Look, he didn't ask to meet her

Politicians and clergies schedule these meetings and bring in their guests. He's polite and says nice things. He also had private meetings with John Boehner and other members of the GOP. If anything Boehner has done far more damage to this country than Kim Davis. Yet I still don't care. This is what Popes do. A string of people come in to greet the man and he's polite.

And the Pope was supporting the idea of Conscientious objectors. Kim is doing just that just like you or I might want to be a Conscientious objector of a war. The Kentucky Government has given her a workaround so she would not have to sign the licenses although now I read she is interfering with that so as far as I am concern send her ass back to jail. Pope supported the idea of Conscientious objector but in the end 'rendor unto Caesar' was something that Jesus said and the Pope is not an elected official in the United States.

[geek tragedy]

36. So it's that easy to get a meeting with the Pope? nt

[randys1]

51. I heard that the vatican arranged for this meeting.

https://sojo.net/articles/reports-vatican-arranged-meeting-between-pope-francis-and-kim-davis

If true, and if the Pope knew who she was

SHAME on him

[pnwmom]

20. It is clear from his only public statement that he doesn't know the circumstances

of Kim Davis. He just said he in general supports freedom of conscience.

If he met her at all, which the Vatican will NOT confirm, then it was probably as part of a group of individuals selected by the local bishop.

And he also met violent criminals while in the prison. He was willing to meet with anyone.

[Retrograde]

2. Does he even know who she is?

Sure, she's been big news in the US, but European news recently has been dominated by other things, such as the Syrian refugees (and before that Somalian refugees) and Putin's posturing and Eurozone economic issues that don't get much attention here. I suspect she was presented as someone being persecuted for her beliefs, with no background about not doing her job. I'd like to know who set up the meeting in the first place.

As for civil disobedience: people like Davis forget that it does have its consequences.

[JI7]

4. why else would he meet her ? it's not like she represents any of the places

He visited so he just came across her in his visits.

[LynneSin]

10. Because someone brought her along as a guest?

She was in DC. More than likely, a politician in DC got her on the list.

[hollysmom]

13. I think it was that stupid family group focus on the family or something that did this.

I have no idea why they were included in anything, maybe because of their name

[Bluenorthwest]

18. It would be likely that she was introduced by Tony Perkins, who just gave her an award that day

because Tony Perkins was an invited participant at the Vatican's anti marriage equality conference last November. It's a small world, and they all know each other.
But facts are Perkins was invited by the Vatican to their conference in Rome at which Francis held forth on marriage, Perkins attended. Perkins gave Davis an award from FRC in DC on the same day as the Pope meet and greet.
Those facts are facts. Logic suggests Perkins was the conduit. For what it's worth conduit through Gerhard Muller who also organized the November conference.

[pnwmom]

21. He met her, if he did, because some underling selected her as part of a group

of Americans to meet.

He didn't personally choose each of the prisoners he met in the prison and I bet, since he publicly said he didn't know about her case, he didn't chose her.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pope-visit-prison-20150926-story.html

But the jail does hold people accused of murder, rape or other serious crimes, and some of those alleged violent felons will be in the audience for Francis. Hawes said the jail didn’t screen out serious criminals, but picked the group based on their behavior in jail, and their attendance at services.

[JI7]

3. he went out of his way to meet her

It's one thing where politicians are from the place he is visiting so he doesn't have much say in it.

But she is just so fucKing loathsome and she isn't CathoLic either.

[yuiyoshida]

5. So did Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz...

she does seem to be a magnet right now. Sarah Palin is probably envious! I would imagine
next she will be invited to sing the National Anthem at the first World Series game!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

6. Fidel Castro's no longer the president of Cuba and yet he met with him.

Is he somehow endorsing the unsavory acts or positions Fidel may have taken over the years as leader?

No, it means he's meeting with him.

[JI7]

12. Fidel Castro is a major figure and still has influence

[LynneSin]

8. He did not go out of his way to meet her. Someone brought her to him

There is a difference.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

11. Exactly. nt

[joeybee12]

14. You don't know that...

You're really being quite the contortionist to deny that this Pope and the church is virulently homophobic.

[pnwmom]

23. His public statement was that he didn't know the details of her situation.

If he had chosen her and chosen her "cause" he wouldn't have said that.

[joeybee12]

38. Yeah right...

You can believ that publci statement if you want to...the fact that they didn't want this known tells me otherwise.

[JI7]

17. who brought her to him ?

[pnwmom]

28. Someone who's a lot more fluent in English than he is.

He's okay at minimal chatting and reading, slowly, from a script.

But all his spontaneous unrehearsed speeches were in Spanish.

[Xyzse]

9. I am inclined to agree with you.

I'll leave it at that.

[Gregorian]

15. The Dalai Lama met with George Bush.

It could mean that he is very good at non-judgement.

[JI7]

16. bush was president.

[treestar]

19. Yes, we don't have to agree with people 100%

before working with them. How do we convince them over to our point of view by engaging in unrelenting hostility? I don't think that has ever helped any cause.

[LynneSin]

26. It's hard to change the world if we only work with those who agree 100% with us.

If anything the Pope spoke very little about Abortion or Marriage Equality. Maybe his opinion is the exact opposite of mine but they hardly seem like high priorities in his book on these issues. I know they are important issues to many people here at DU so I hope people are not thinking that I feel they are low priority but I do know we have other people out there fighting hard for those issues too.

But I do know this, sometimes the first step in changing someone's mind on an issue is getting them to realize that their negative opinion of that issue isn't a high priority. And the Pope has done a few things to show that like allowing forgiveness for those who have had abortions and demoting that high ranking hardline Anti-LGBT priest.

[Bluenorthwest]

34. And yet the actions of Francis and the Vatican are not as you suggest at all.

Read this, from last November.
Vatican Strengthens Ties with Evangelicals and Mormons Against Gay Marriage
http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/


Now that conference could have been about helping the poor, bit it was not. Priorities.

[joeybee12]

43. It's ridiculous arguing with these people...

It's the same old sh*t...gay rights don't matter, it's a side issue...it's phucking insulting.

[nichomachus]

22. He was asked to visit a home for LGBT youth

These are kids whose mostly Catholic parents tossed them out because they were gay. The officials at the home thought it would be good for him to hear what these kids had suffered because of the hate messages coming from his bishops.

He totally snubbed them to meet with an unrepentant serial adulteress who is living with a guy who is not her husband, who took a solemn oath and then violated it (and continues to violate it), and who is taking money under false pretenses -- stealing.

He may not know who she is, but his handlers sure enough do. This was no accident. The man is an anti-gay bigot.

[pnwmom]

24. She is only claiming a 10 minute meeting at his residence. He would have needed much more time

to go to a home for LGBT youth, and his schedule was very full.

[nichomachus]

25. Yeah, whatever. He's still a bigot. n/t

[Arugula Latte]

31. Oh, goody, more apologists for this anti-gay bigot.

[Bluenorthwest]

32. No LGBT Catholic groups or voices were allowed at the Meeting of Families.

It lasted 3 days. But of course, Kim Davis is a friend of Tony Perkins, and Perkins accepted the Vatican's invitation to attend the anti marriage equality conference they held in Rome last November. Tony said it was 'almost euphoric'. Francis was the keynote speaker. So Davis is a friend of a friend of Francis, or actually more to the point and if this helps, of Gerhart Muller.

[joeybee12]

39. And guess what, in Philly the meeting on homosexuality and the church allowed ONLY ONE

gay man...one...and is a celibate gay man. Ridiculous.

[PeaceNikki]

27. This is important.

[LostOne4Ever]

37. Thread winner! nt

[LynneSin]

49. He was also asked to visit the Katherine Drexel shrine in Philly

Some lady was upset he wasn't making a stop. The guy was in the states for only six days and visited 3 major cities. And to make visits to every location requires sweeps by secret service and the national guard before he can even show up. He did visit a homeless shelter and a prison in Philly. Obama also invited several members of the LGBT community to dinner when the Pope dinned with him. It would have been nice if he did everything perfect but that ain't happening. It is way easier to bring one person to him then to secure another area to take the Pope there.

[LostOne4Ever]

52. But he did make time for Kim Davis...what does that tell you? (nt)

[LynneSin]

55. He made time for John Boehner too

Personally that I find more offensive but what can you do. He made time for many people I did not like and time for many people I do like. People stream through there and he was polite and greeted them.

But in the end what he spoke about in public many many times over when given a microphone was about the poor, about immigration and about climate change and about how we as a nation need to do better.

I'm not worried about idiots like Kim Davis and John Boehner.

Like I posted earlier, if I'm only going to fight my battles with people who support my causes 100% then I will be fighting a very lonely battle. He has never been the hero for liberal causes but I think he has a very important message that can make positive change in this world. I like that.

[Humanist_Activist]

30. Its interesting to see the twisting of logic on display here, lots of assertions....

very little evidence.

The Pope isn't a god, you can't project your own beliefs onto him and claim they are true.

[Polly Hennessey]

33. Conflicted

This one puzzles me. Perhaps she was meeting him because she came with someone else. What I have heard from MSNBC is that he also gave her two rosaries. A black one and a white one -- what? Why would he do that? Did everyone get a rosary? She is not Catholic. My opinion of him is less than it was before I heard all of this. Surely, someone in his entourage knew she had defied our laws and that she is a public employee. None of this feels right to me. Sorry, Pope, if this is true, I really feel let down. Note: I am not Catholic.

[LynneSin]

50. Hell I had about a dozen Catholic items given to me over the weekend in Philly

I would guess most people meeting him get some sort of girt to remember him by.

I gave the rosaries away to others since I am not Catholic but I did keep a medallion. I think because people saw I was a volunteer and I helped so many people they just like to give gifts. Who knows.

[geek tragedy]

35. a private meeting with the pope is reserved for a very select few.

this was an enormous honor--especially given that Davis isn't even Catholic.

Frank is a homophobic bigot. That Benny was an even bigger one is not much consolation.

[pnwmom]

40. Or . . .

it was a favor for the Bishop or Cardinal who put her on a list.

[geek tragedy]

41. the Pope is their boss, not the other way around

He had a very limited amount of time in the United States, and he devoted 15 minutes of it to meeting with a non-Catholic whose claim to fame is being guilty of illegal discrimination, abusing her office, and openly disrespecting our constitutional order.

The Pope can keep his bigoted ass over on his side of the Atlantic and out of our affairs, thank you.

[pnwmom]

44. Do you really think he personally micromanaged every minute of that week?

And his only response to this 10 minute meeting is to "not deny" it.

If he wanted to turn this into a PR stunt, he would have.

[geek tragedy]

45. the pope is a shrewd politican--as all popes are--and has politically savvy advisers and staffers

controlling his schedule

Well, not so savvy as it turns out, of course.

They confirmed it. There are pictures of the Vatican rosaries he gave her.

[pnwmom]

46. The NYTimes characterized their non-denial as a confirmation.

Where did you see an actual confirmation?

And the Vatican says they will have no comment on the meeting. They clearly do not see it as a public event intended to have public consequences.

[Arugula Latte]

48. I see you're twisting yourself in pretzels to defend Pope Bigot.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/us/county-clerk-kim-davis-who-denied-gay-couples-visited-pope.html

Vatican officials initially would not confirm that the meeting occurred, finally doing so on Wednesday afternoon, while refusing to discuss any details.

Your statement: "They clearly do not see it as a public event intended to have public consequences."

Oh, no, no, no. Of course not! Can't sully the massive PR snow job that millions of so-called liberals were stupid enough to fall for, eh?

[hopemountain]

42. the less kim davis and her attornies say about

her meeting the more uproar & the more attention the attention whore garners.

if the pope was meeting hundreds of conscientious objectors (when there was not time for thousands), it only makes sense kimmie was in a line on the residence grounds along with many other individuals and that his statements included the same compassionate words for all.

she may have 'felt' special and singled out - because the pope is sincere when speaking & blessing - but, even 10 minutes seems like a lot of time for kimmie and her husband to have a real conversation with the pope. a private meeting one on one is highly unlikely. kimmie's statements on what the pope said to her - so far - are generic. just like the purported statements from the vatican whereby they neither deny nor verify exactly who attended or participated in the meetings on thursday. i imagine if there were hundreds of participants, the list is very long and the time with each individual was very short.

just wondering: what the rosary(ies) are made of - plastic, seeds, wooden beads, semiprecious stone beads, or pearls?

[tanyev]

47. Wait, I thought the Talibornagains didn't like this socialist/leftist/commie/liberal pope.

Why are they bragging about him meeting with Ms. Davis?

[Bluenorthwest]

53. You are behind the times....

http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/

[lonestarnot]

54. I personally don't give a rat's ass if pope met with the devil himself.