Vatican fires gay priest on eve of synod

[joeybee12]

VATICAN CITY (AP) — The Vatican on Saturday fired a monsignor who came out as gay on the eve of a big meeting of the world's bishops to discuss church outreach to gays, divorcees and more traditional Catholic families.

Monsignor Kryzstof Charamsa was a mid-level official in the Vatican's doctrine office. In newspaper interviews published in Italy and Poland on Saturday, Charamsa said he was happy and proud to be a gay priest, and was in love with a man whom he identified as his boyfriend.

"The decision to make such a pointed statement on the eve of the opening of the synod appears very serious and irresponsible, since it aims to subject the synod assembly to undue media pressure," the Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said in a statement.

As a result, Charamsa could no longer work at the Vatican or its pontifical universities, Lombardi said.

Despite his dismissal, Charamsa remains a priest, although Lombardi hinted that his superiors could take further action.

Charamsa had planned a press conference in Rome for midday on Saturday to discuss his sexual orientation and criticize the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for spreading "pervasive and blind homophobia," but was pre-empted by the Vatican action.


http://news.yahoo.com/vatican-fires-gay-priest-eve-synod-111749759.html

It's called talking out of both sides of your mouth, something the Church has always done.

[LuvNewcastle]

1. Who am I to judge?

I'm sure that the Vatican didn't really fire this guy. This is a lie being spread by Kim Davis's lawyer.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. Oddly the RCC hardly ever managed to fire priests who were committing sexual abuse

of children, preferring instead to shuffle them off to a new location where nobody would know who they were.

[LuvNewcastle]

5. Something, isn't it?

I guess it's the 'love' part that vexes the church so. If you can fuck children and keep your job, and lose your job after declaring your love for another man, I guess that tells us all we need to know about which is considered the greater sin.

[Major Nikon]

19. They did a lot worse things as well

The vatican issued a secret decree called the Crimen Sollicitationis which laid out how child rapist priests were to be covered up. Among other things it prescribed excommunication for witnesses and victims that went outside the church. It was in effect up till 2001 and some victims to this day still fear excommunication for telling their stories. At one time the chief enforcer of Crimen Sollicitationis was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who later became Pope Benedict XVI.

[Sunlei]

2. Catholic priests supposed to take a "vow of celibacy"??? gay or straight- he should resign

[joeybee12]

4. Where did it say he WASN'T celibate?????

[Sunlei]

6. "was in love with a man whom he identified as his boyfriend"

[joeybee12]

7. Still doesn't say he wasn't celibate...

I know, I know, the Pope fan club is upset because once more it's listen to what I say, not see what i do.

[Sunlei]

8. there is more to 'priestly celibacy' than the basic definition of an actual act of sex

[Kingofalldems]

9. You are correct.

[joeybee12]

10. And if a straight priest was dating a woman, but not having sex...

They'd fire him too, right? My ass they would.

[Sunlei]

11. real priests don't 'date' woman or say they have a 'girlfriend' either.

[Chan790]

14. They do.

Before we get into that...I have to clarify something. Monsignor Charamsa wasn't fired as a priest, he was stripped of his title and position...functionally he was demoted and moved, the exact same punishment given to the pedophile priest Paul Shanley in Boston and no longer considered appropriate for pedophilia or any grave criminal act by a priest. It's still the punishment however for any priest caught engaging or reasonably-suspected of carrying on a heteroerotic (or homoerotic) romantic relationship, whether sexual or not.

Happened to one of my college professors. Fired as a mid-level official of his order, assigned to a "penance" job teaching remedial theology to non-Catholics at a pontifical university under constant supervision waiting for him to say something sufficient to defrock (fire him entirely as a member of the clergy) him as a heretic. Never was (almost 20 years) but as soon as he could be urged into retirement, he was. It was the same year his son was a freshman at the university.

Point is...this is not out-of-norm treatment or punishment for a member of the clergy for being romantically-involved, regardless the circumstances or orientation of that involvement.

Also, functionally two US Cardinals (Burke and Law) have been fired in recent history (the last 20 or so years)...Cardinals can't be easily removed from the college of Cardinals so the easiest way to get rid of them is to assign them F/T to a chapel in Rome that has no parishioners. Your job becomes literally to minister to an empty room until you reach an age where you retire or can be forced to resign. Law was "fired" for lying to the Pope, his efforts to hinder investigation into allegations of clerical pedophilia and cover-up occurrences of pedophilia. Burke for attempting to undermine the apolitical apostolic efforts of Pope Francis in the US in an effort to advance his own regressive conservative agenda...basically, run-of-the-mill gross insubordination.

[Sunlei]

21. sounds almost like any military, government, or police system..they never fire the bad ones.

[Jamastiene]

18. *except when they want to molest kids.

They throw that celibacy clause out the window then.

[sudenlyseymour]

25. I have to say you are correct.

Though I'm not fond of the RCC, this pope or any other pope you are correct.

If those of us who have lambasted Kim Davis for not quitting her job don't also lambaste this priest for doing such a public slap in the face to not only his employer but his church I think we're hypocrites.

Others may disagree with me about the two situations being analagous. I welcome anyone's opinion on that. You could possibly change my mind.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. Where are the many 'Why I Love Francis' posters? They should come to endorse or explain this.

In my view, if you support a group that organizes against a minority and you pretend that group is not organizing against and ranting about that minority, you are telling an unforgivable type of lie.

[Sunlei]

23. I love the Pope promotes the 'golden rule' & expresses that 'rule' by his words & actions.

I don't have to support that entire religious government or their entire 1400BC rule books.

[snagglepuss]

13. A very large percent of the priesthood is gay. The rule this priest broke is to be open about it.

Back in the early 1990s a very good friend of mine who is extremely well-travelled, sophisticated, multi-lingual, Jewish and gay dated several priests. I was surprised as he first was when he told me of sleeping over at the house the priests shared and waking up finding no other priest batted an eye. He once showed the gorgeous Victorian mansion where they all lived.

Shortly after this someone who left the priesthood wrote a book about that very topic. He was gay but left nauseated with the hypocrisy of the Church, homosexuality was an accepted reality within the priesthood, the only rule was to maintain the hypocrisy.

imo the main reason the Roman Catholic Church refuses to allow priests to marry (ie women) is that so few would do so. There is no biblical reason for priests not to marry which is why priests in the Ukrainian Catholic Church do marry.

[Lucky Luciano]

15. No idea if this is true, but someone recently told me priests can't marry because

...when they die, the church didn't want the wives inheriting from the priests. Not marrying kept all the money in the church.

Grain of salt and everything though with that comment though.

[Sunlei]

26. priests have families, brothers, sisters, a mom and dad. Though they do give up earning personal

income when they climb the priest ladder. doubt anything is left for a family to 'inherit' when a priest dies?

[bulloney]

27. The cynic in me says the RCC doesn't allow priests marrying because of the cost.

I know several parishes that are not exactly flush with money just supporting a single priest, or sharing a priest with another parish. If the RCC would suddenly allow them to marry, these parishes would have to support the spouse and kids. And if they're following the letter of RCC belief, they will have lots of kids. Then you get into the debate on whether the parish should support the kids' college costs if that parish has the bad timing of having the priest when his kids are of college age. Also, do you furnish transportation for each of the kids when they're old enough to have a drivers' license? What about the health care issues of wife and children?


It would open a Pandora's box of financial issues.

[Lordquinton]

30. Should be no problem for the church with "Limitless wealth"

That they allow some parishes to wither and die is a smoke screen to make the church seem humble and poor.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

34. What money? Priests these days make a pittance

They live in a building owned by the church and work in a building owned by the church.

Although, contrary to popular belief, diocesan priests do not take vows of poverty, so they can inherit wealth or accumulate their own wealth, although that's rare. A few priests have made money writing books.

Priests who belong to religious orders - like the current pope - do take vows of poverty. Any money Francis would make from writing a book would be given to the church.

Tradition has created an "unmarried" priesthood because it is believed that 1) Jesus wasn't married and 2) unmarried men aren't encumbered by family. In fact, the "celibate" priesthood is only a "practice" of the church and is not considered dogma.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. Married people have heirs. That's why RCC wanted celibate priests. Property.

The second hand tale you tell is greatly exaggerated. Note, you yourself claim both that 'being open is what they don't like' and that your friend's dates were very open about it around Church peers. Those two statements do not mesh at all. Of course there are some priests who have sex with men or with women, but it sure is not a large percentage who bring their dates where other Church people can see them. That's just not the truth at all. They hide like rats.

[snagglepuss]

31. No need to believe my 2nd hand story, google is your friend.

snip

"It's an empirical fact that lots of men are gay who are priests. And they are very good priests," he says. "I would also observe that the numbers of gay men and women in the church ministry is probably larger than the general population, precisely because they are not seeking marriage."

Are these the words of an anonymous poster? Nope.

This is a quote of "Father James Bretzke, a professor of moral theology at Boston College, Francis's comments aren't a fundamental change in the church's teaching, but represent a much-needed shift in attitude that reflects the reality of the priesthood."

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/07/29/catholic-priests-its-empirical-fact-that-many-clergy-are-gay



As for hiding like rats. That may have been true of older generations but the men my friend knew were in their 20s and early 30s.


As for your comment that I've contradicted myself their openness. I haven't because their openness is with each other not with the outside world which is why its so nauseatingly hypocritical.

[Honeylies]

24. That old tradition may be broken soon

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/07/14/3459644/pope-franics-priestly-celibacy/

Early Ukrainian priests would form corrupt familial dynasties so that was one of the problems with married priests way back in the day.

Anyway, married men can be ordained in the Eastern rites and married Lutherans etc, can convert and become Catholic priests. Pope Francis is looking into bucking the tradition altogether and just allowing all priests to get married. He stated it's tradition vs dogma.

So I'd imagine there would have to be a discussion of whether the 50% or so of gay priests could marry. And what about the nuns?

[LittleBlue]

32. I think it's been this way since the church began

Joining the priesthood meant gay men could have a position of importance without engaging in a sham marriage.

[Jamastiene]

17. Watch the swooners line up in 3...2...

to call you the hater here. You know they call us haters if we point stuff like this out. We are supposed to swoon along with them in wide eyed bliss, singing Kumbaya, and pretending we don't notice the anti-gay and anti-trans stuff. It's ridiculous, but that seems to be their latest, right here on DU.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. They live in a manufactured reality in which Francis fires anti gay priests and in which Francis is

entirely separate from the 'fundies' like Davis. The reality is that Francis fires gay priests and that he and his Vatican actively organize with 'fundies' associated with Davis, such as Tony Perkins of FRC who gave Davis an award the same day she met Francis. 'But who could have possibly introduced them?' they gasp 'Fundies hate Catholics' they insist 'and never associate with them' they claim.
http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/

[NonMetro]

28. I Call It The "Defenders Of The Faith" Phenomenon

I was called "pope hater" when I disagreed with John Boehner's decision to invite the Pope to speak before congress. Defenders of the Faith will jump in at any hint of criticism of the Pope. John Boehner knew this, and as you have also observed, this Papal visit, primarily because of his invitation to speak before congress, already has Democrats at each other throats!

[bullwinkle428]

22. Fortunately, some of us never allowed the PR wool to be pulled

over our eyes.

[valerief]

29. I keep thinking of that South Park episode when the Vatican bishops were in an uproar

about having to give up sex with boys because the world found out about it.

The Vatican looks the other way for sex with boys, but heaven forbid a cleric has sex with an adult!

[Deadshot]

33. But I thought the Vatican didn't support Kim Davis?

From the anti-gay rally they had in November of last year and now the firing of the gay priest, it's quite clear the Vatican is anti-LGBT.