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GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 09:40 PM Oct 2015

Russia to Bomb in Iraq, create Baghdad Command Center for Syria, Iraq and Iran efforts against ISIS

This thing is moving quickly now and the US is getting pushed out:

“In the upcoming few days or weeks, I think Iraq will be forced to ask Russia to launch air strikes, and that depends on their success in Syria," Hakim al-Zamili, a leading Shi'ite politician, told Reuters in an interview.

The comments were the clearest signal yet that Baghdad intends to lean on Russia in the war on Islamic State after U.S.-led coalition airstrikes produced limited results.
...
Shi'ite militias, long mistrustful of the United States, see Russia's intervention as an opportunity to turn the tables.

"The Russian intervention came at the right time and right place and we think it will change all rules of the game not only in Syria but in Iraq also," said Muen al-Kadhimi, an aide to Hadi al-Amiri, the most powerful Shi'ite militia leader.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/07/us-mideast-crisis-iraq-russia-idUSKCN0S112120151007

Much more at link, including:

Russians announced a joint operations command center for Iran, Iraq, Syria and Russia to be based in Baghdad.

Iraq cites slow delivery of US weapons and ineffective military operations against ISIS as reasons for switching to Russia.

This new dynamic is trouble for Abadi, the US-aligned Iraqi PM.
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Russia to Bomb in Iraq, create Baghdad Command Center for Syria, Iraq and Iran efforts against ISIS (Original Post) GreatGazoo Oct 2015 OP
Finally, something is being done to contain the Saudis. leveymg Oct 2015 #1
Yep, GummyBearz Oct 2015 #3
Tectonic plates are moving, and the US seems helpless. Comrade Grumpy Oct 2015 #4
Yep sub.theory Oct 2015 #6
We and our allies have basically been using ISIS as a controlled fire killbotfactory Oct 2015 #2
Isn't the guy we helped put into office in Iraq flamingdem Oct 2015 #9
I think we should just turn the whole mess over to Russia, Blue_In_AK Oct 2015 #5
Tell that to the Saban Center and Kingdom Holdings. leveymg Oct 2015 #7
Well, yes. Blue_In_AK Oct 2015 #11
And Israel. But, there's rhe rub. Hard to say no to both leveymg Oct 2015 #15
Good, let Russia have the quagmire. joshcryer Oct 2015 #8
But if it does flamingdem Oct 2015 #10
Isn't that what WE were supposed to get out of all this? Blue_In_AK Oct 2015 #12
Exactly, but Putin is a badger flamingdem Oct 2015 #13
Oil isn't the gold it once was davidn3600 Oct 2015 #16
Thankfully so flamingdem Oct 2015 #18
Yes, the Saudis AND Russia need high oil prices, shale fracking threatens that GreatGazoo Oct 2015 #19
Great article, the Saudi's are the reason for oil prices. joshcryer Oct 2015 #20
If they obliterate ISIS, we all win sub.theory Oct 2015 #14
Sure, but it won't. joshcryer Oct 2015 #17
 

GummyBearz

(2,931 posts)
3. Yep,
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:45 AM
Oct 2015

The Obama admin is going to be burning up phone wires in the next 48 hours making sure Russia doesn't hurt our Saudi friends too much. Otherwise Saudi's will be angry... we can't have that.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
4. Tectonic plates are moving, and the US seems helpless.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:55 AM
Oct 2015

I shouldn't complain. Just back away slowly...

sub.theory

(652 posts)
6. Yep
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 02:08 AM
Oct 2015

I'm not unhappy to see the Russians taking charge, honestly. The President's strategy of arming "moderate" Syrian Rebels has been a total failure and I wish he'd admit it. Assad is going to survive and he's a damn sight better better than ISIS.

killbotfactory

(13,566 posts)
2. We and our allies have basically been using ISIS as a controlled fire
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 10:33 PM
Oct 2015

To weaken both the pro-Iran Shia dominated Iraq, and Syria. We don't control them but are happy to let them run amok so long as they don't push too far into Iraq or get to close to Turkey or Kurdish forces.

They're the enemy of our enemies after all.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
5. I think we should just turn the whole mess over to Russia,
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 02:02 AM
Oct 2015

pick up our toys and go home.

Probably unrealistic, I know, but I'm sick of our involvement in the ME.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
7. Tell that to the Saban Center and Kingdom Holdings.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 02:14 AM
Oct 2015

Both will simply throw another $100 million into the campaign chest.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
11. Well, yes.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 02:21 AM
Oct 2015

As I said, I knew my wish was unrealistic. We're so entangled over there now, extraction will be impossible. But, really, who allies with Saudi Arabia, one of the most repressive governments on the planet? Oh, that's right -- US!

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
15. And Israel. But, there's rhe rub. Hard to say no to both
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 02:30 AM
Oct 2015

considering that they have been pushing the US into war together. Until now, there really has been no countervailing force. Strange days.

flamingdem

(39,308 posts)
13. Exactly, but Putin is a badger
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 02:26 AM
Oct 2015

and can override many limitations Americans have over there. One can imagine a repeat of Afghanistan but this seems easier. Plus, Iran will help with funding.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
16. Oil isn't the gold it once was
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 02:58 AM
Oct 2015

That's reality. Oil was massive in the late 1900s and even up to 10 years ago. But it was a bubble. As we can see today, demand is crashing and prices are falling. And many oil consumers are starting to look at alternative fuels and increased efficiency designs which will further depress demand. Even if oil one day gains its footing and goes back up, it will encourage competition. This is the reason the Saudis want to keep the price down.

A lot of Europe is really making a push to renewables. If we start doing that, the economies of these countries that depend on that oil money (including Russia) are going to have serious problems.

flamingdem

(39,308 posts)
18. Thankfully so
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 03:01 AM
Oct 2015

though I'm not at all sure we won't see oil go up again and not sure if renewables will be embraced in the US as they are in Europe. And demand for gas guzzlers went up over the last couple of years.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
19. Yes, the Saudis AND Russia need high oil prices, shale fracking threatens that
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 08:25 AM
Oct 2015

KSA has tried to crush investment in fracking but it hasn't worked and KSA is getting desparate



Far from retrenching, King Salman is spraying money around, giving away $32bn in a coronation bonus for all workers and pensioners.

He has launched a costly war against the Houthis in Yemen and is engaged in a massive military build-up - entirely reliant on imported weapons - that will propel Saudi Arabia to fifth place in the world defence ranking.

The Saudi royal family is leading the Sunni cause against a resurgent Iran, battling for dominance in a bitter struggle between Sunni and Shia across the Middle East. "Right now, the Saudis have only one thing on their mind and that is the Iranians. They have a very serious problem. Iranian proxies are running Yemen, Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon," said Jim Woolsey, the former head of the US Central Intelligence Agency.
...
Standard & Poor's lowered its outlook to "negative" in February. "We view Saudi Arabia's economy as undiversified and vulnerable to a steep and sustained decline in oil prices," it said. ...In hindsight, it was a strategic error to hold prices so high, for so long, allowing shale frackers - and the solar industry - to come of age. The genie cannot be put back in the bottle.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/11768136/Saudi-Arabia-may-go-broke-before-the-US-oil-industry-buckles.html

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
20. Great article, the Saudi's are the reason for oil prices.
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 12:50 AM
Oct 2015

They're the sole reason for low oil prices as it stands now. They are rightly afraid of the impact unconventional oils were having in the US. With the US actually projected to be the worlds highest oil producer until the Saudi's opened the floodgates. They do not want things like shale to become economical, they do not want the in situ wells drilled, they do not want the technology developed. They do not want electric cars, they do not want all the things that become more and more economical as oil prices go up.

They're of course taking the wrong tack because flooding the world markets with oil isn't going to help them in the long run.

sub.theory

(652 posts)
14. If they obliterate ISIS, we all win
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 02:28 AM
Oct 2015

I couldn't care less that Iran maintains their puppet Assad. I couldn't care less that this spells the end of any Sunni dominance in the region. I don't care if oil rich Russia gets access to more oil. I couldn't care less that Israel, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia don't like it. If the Russians along with the Iranians, Syrians, and Iraqis wipe ISIS off the Earth then we have all won.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
17. Sure, but it won't.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 02:58 AM
Oct 2015

The Syrian army got completely routed today. The Saudi's have been arming the rebels for years now with heavy equipment (like RPG's and TOW's).

It's unfortunate but you need ground troops and occupying forces and a heavily trained military. Russia is not going to do that (they're calling this just training exercises that will be over in a few months, good luck with that). Syria's military is wholly underequipped and undertrained to do what needs to be done.

It doesn't help that Russia is calculating that taking out the rebels will help take out ISIS and bring stability to the region, this is a losing strategy because the rebels are battle hardened for years (and the minuscule "training" the US provided hardly changed that). Russia basically got the Syrian army to get routed today because it emboldened them to attack a city that they simply had no power to do. My guess is that Russia is trying to pull a Libya intervention with airstrikes. It might have worked when the thing was fresh but I don't see it at this point.

We're looking at a Colombia-style FARC type of scenario. Entrenched disparate groups with lots of firepower lasting a long time. And it took ground forces reduce FARC.

(And mind you, I am only advocating for a peaceful end to this war which has killed 200k+ people, mostly civilians. I don't care who "wins.&quot

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