Gun Suicides Plummet in State After New Licensing Law, Skyrocket After Law Repealed in Other State

[La Lioness Priyanka]

More stringent gun laws can save lives, while less stringent ones can lead to more deaths. That is the implication of a new study by researchers at Johns Hopkins, who found that gun suicides plummeted after a law in Connecticut requiring background checks for handgun purchases was passed. Gun suicides in Missouri, meanwhile, spiked after a similar law was repealed there.

“Contrary to popular belief, suicidal thoughts are often transient, which is why delaying access to a firearm during a period of crisis could prevent suicide,” said study author Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, in a press release announcing the study’s findings on Tuesday. “Just as research indicates that handgun purchaser licensing laws are effective in reducing firearm homicides, they could reduce suicides by firearms as well.”

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/09/01/new_study_shows_how_gun_suicides_plummeted_in_connecticut_after_stricter.html

But let's just keep focusing on the one old lady who shot a burglar in the foot

[randys1]

1. This is common sense, but nice to see it in writing.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. it's always nice when data demonstrates what we have always been arguing for

[iamthe99]

8. That article fails to mention it has nothing to do with the recent law CT passed for assault weapons

The handgun law has been in place in CT 25 years

Some years suicides have spiked , some years it has gone down.

Has nothing to do with the recent assault weapons ban passed in 2013 in CT

[La Lioness Priyanka]

13. the article was talking about the 1995 data and not the current assault weapons law

[iamthe99]

3. That law is over 25 years old

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. yes, and?

they had to wait till similar conditions were created in a separate state, otherwise it would be hard to compare the results.

[iamthe99]

10. Read the article they are trying to use the recent 2013 assault weapons ban passed in CT

as proof

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. no, they are not. here is the relevant paragraph of what the authors of the study did

The study, published by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in the October issue of Preventive Medicine, found a 15.4 percent reduction in firearm suicide rates in Connecticut after the passage of a 1995 law requiring individuals to obtain a permit or license to purchase a handgun after passing a background check. Similarly, “Missouri’s repeal of its handgun purchaser licensing law in 2007 was associated with a 16.1 percent increase in firearm suicide rates.”

[iamthe99]

16. Sorry I'm an idiot

I missed that




It's a good law

[Mojorabbit]

59. Was that all suicides rates or gun?

Just wondering if someone does not have a gun, do they turn to pills?

[Decoy of Fenris]

5. Dishonest framing. Suicide is the highest it's been since 1991 and is rising rapidly.

http://www.connecticutmag.com/Blog/Connecticut-Today/January-2015/Connecticut-Has-One-of-Nations-Highest-Suicide-Rates-Seeing-Deaths-on-Rise/


Sure, they're not using guns; they're using other means.

To quote someone recently, "it's always nice when data demonstrates what we have always been arguing for".

[Human101948]

41. So you support gun-assisted suicide...

Perhaps the rate of suicide would have been even higher with easy access to guns.

We know that decreasing access to firearms can reduce suicide rates.

The Israeli Defense Forces, much like American troops, was seeing a disturbing number of suicides in the ranks in 2006. In an effort to bring down the numbers, the IDF banned soldiers from bringing their rifles home with them on the weekends. Suicides fell by 40 percent, according to a study by Israeli psychiatrists.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/03/suicides-vs-handgun-background-checks

I assume you never had a suicidal thought that passed as the sun came out the next day.

[Decoy of Fenris]

42. Of course I do. I should have that right, and so should everyone.

If someone -wants- to take their own life, they should have that ability. I've lost three friends to firearm suicides; I stand by my convictions that it was their right to die as they wished.

[Human101948]

43. Most people who jump off bridges have a moment as they plummet down regretting their decision...

Some survive and go on to have a happy life. With a gun there is very little chance of surviving.

Survivors often regret their decision in midair, if not before. Ken Baldwin and Kevin Hines both say they hurdled over the railing, afraid that if they stood on the chord they might lose their courage. Baldwin was twenty-eight and severely depressed on the August day in 1985 when he told his wife not to expect him home till late. “I wanted to disappear,” he said. “So the Golden Gate was the spot. I’d heard that the water just sweeps you under.” On the bridge, Baldwin counted to ten and stayed frozen. He counted to ten again, then vaulted over. “I still see my hands coming off the railing,” he said. As he crossed the chord in flight, Baldwin recalls, “I instantly realized that everything in my life that I’d thought was unfixable was totally fixable—except for having just jumped.”

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/10/13/jumpers

And you ignored the information about the Israeli ban on taking guns home.

[Decoy of Fenris]

44. And?

They should still retain the right to off themselves if they so choose.

And I casually discounted the Israeli thing simply because, last I knew, this wasn't Israel.

[Human101948]

46. You believe that Jews are somehow different than people in this country?

That dangerous territory you're traveling in.

[Decoy of Fenris]

47. Of course they are.

In the same way that Africans in Uganda are different than Americans in America, or Japanese in Japan are different than Americans in America.

You can try to bait me all day long, but people are different. They come from different cultures, hold value in different things, and culture matters.

[Human101948]

53. Okay, so how are they different that this doesn't apply?

There's some sort of Israeli cultural thing that prevents their soldiers from committing suicide if they don't have a gun? Yet in this country people would be completely different?

[villager]

6. Expect the denialists to insist there is *no connection...*

...as per the circa-90's faxed "talking point" sheet they're all still working off of...

[Eleanors38]

11. You forgot the "5, 4, 3, 2, 1..."

[friendly_iconoclast]

35. I take it you're not the sort that regards it as a good thing when suicides choose another method...

...even when the overall number of them increases?

What the hell is wrong with you?

<SARCASM MODE> to <OFF>

[Eleanors38]

56. "All Suicides Matter."

[friendly_iconoclast]

60. Not to certain posters here...

[villager]

45. But you remembered!

[Eleanors38]

57. Reminds me of Cape Canaveral.

[friendly_iconoclast]

32. Are gun suicides more dead where you live?

[MosheFeingold]

7. Did the overall suicide rate change?

Or were people not jumping off bridges anymore, preferring a shotgun?

Sorry to be crass, but the means of suicide to me is not particularly important; it's the impetus to doing so.

People so inclined will find a way --- I know; I lost a dear relative who was troubled and managed to commit suicide while restrained in a hospital.

[Decoy of Fenris]

9. Yes; Suicides increased and are at the highest rate in over 25 years. n/t

[Eleanors38]

14. Some states lower than national average: GA, TX, LA (food's too good to die young!)

[friendly_iconoclast]

33. True, and the state medical examiner confirms it:

http://www.ct.gov/ocme/cwp/view.asp?a=2165&q=295120

[NutmegYankee]

37. The magazine article did get one thing wrong though.

Connecticut is nowhere near the top in the country. It's actually on the low end.

375 suicides in 2014 divided by the 3.597 million people is a rate of 10.4 suicides per 100,000 people. The national average is 12.94 in 2015.

[Decoy of Fenris]

39. Which magazine article?

Sorry mate, I'm all over the place with links and whatnot today and I've got about 38 tabs open. Care to nudge me in the right direction?

[NutmegYankee]

40. The article in post #5

[pintobean]

15. The middle aged lady shot the burglar in both legs, not the foot.

Aren't background checks federal requirements?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Background_Check_System

[iamthe99]

17. In CT a private gun owner could sell a handgun to someone

without checking to see if the person had a pistol permit.

That changed in 1995 , now to buy or own a handgun you must have a permit

[NutmegYankee]

19. No permit required to own, only to buy. nt

[iamthe99]

20. now it is

I don't think it's legal to own one now without a permit?

[NutmegYankee]

21. Nothing changed on handguns after Sandy Hook.

The 1990s law was just expanded to long guns and the assault weapons ban got stricter. The only other change was a permit to buy ammo, if you already didn't have a separate permit to buy pistol or long guns. There is no handgun registration law and no license to own handguns. The only document required of any gun is the certificate of registration if you have an assault weapon prior to the ban. All owners can keep the assault weapons, they just registered them.

[iamthe99]

22. I think you might be wrong on this

I'm pretty sure to even own a handgun in your home you need a permit in CT

[Decoy of Fenris]

23. Here.

http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?a=4213&q=494614

Enjoy.

[NutmegYankee]

25. There are two types of permits.

One is the eligibility certificate to buy, valid for 5 years. The other is the Concealed Carry Permit, which is considered the "Gold" permit in CT as it's allows for buying both handguns and long guns with no waiting period as well as ammo. And of course, one can carry concealed if they wanted to - typically it's acquired only to transport a handgun by car to a range, a quirk in CT's law originally introduced to combat gangs.

[Decoy of Fenris]

26. Yup, but I think you're posting at the wrong fella. I just give links for education purposes. :) n/t

[NutmegYankee]

27. I just wanted to provide clarity for anyone else reading.

People have a tendency to think CT's laws are far more draconian than they really are. They are pretty easy to live with.

[Decoy of Fenris]

28. Well it's not that they're draconian.

They're thorough, sure, but hardly draconian. My only beef with them is the financial aspect; the government should cover most if not all of the costs of the red tape for owning firearms.

Other than that though, I have only few and middling issues with CT-style gun control.

[NutmegYankee]

29. I can understand the issue with the cost.

Though at the same time, handguns aren't cheap to begin with and are way more than the cost of the permitting (eligibility is $35). I don't want poor people to get disenfranchised at the same time so I wish the state provided the safety courses for free. I'd consider that a good use of taxpayer money to improve safety.

[Decoy of Fenris]

31. See, there's something we can agree on.

Personally, I think a government tax break for the purchase and use/inspection of gun safes would be a fantastic way to help cut down on accidental casualties (think children here), but a lot of people won't spend money on things like gun safes or gun locks simply because they're added costs on top of an object that's already rather expensive on the whole.

And Gods know there are a whole bunch of instructors out there like myself who would gladly do free safety courses. If we got paid by the government, then great, but I'd be honored to teach the class without any financial incentives. I know a lot of instructors would do the same.

-That- is the sort of positive "gun control" stuff I can get behind fully.

[NutmegYankee]

24. I live in Connecticut and own guns.

I know what I'm talking about.

[Kang Colby]

34. The worst part about CT permits

is that local police departments continue to make up "extra requirements" for the application process defined by the state. Despite being told to stop by state officials, they continue to do it. Imagine living in Enfield, and some LEO calls your employer because you want to purchase a firearm.

Then again, with respect to concealed carry Maryland is worse. As a general rule permits aren't issued to the peasant class.

[whatthehey]

18. But did suicides plummet?

Or are the gun suicides extra-dead? Does it matter if people couldn't get guns but used tall buildings or poisons instead? There are many methods of suicide that put other people at more risk than guns.

[friendly_iconoclast]

30. The number of suicides increased per the state medical examiner:

http://www.ct.gov/ocme/cwp/view.asp?a=2165&q=295120

[whatthehey]

49. So - negative lives saved by draconian gun control laws yet again?

[Decoy of Fenris]

36. More people overall killed themselves, just not with guns. This is a good thing? n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

51. no, given the direction that CT suicide rates were going they sharply declined

had they kept going at the rates prior to the 95 laws, we would see far more suicides now.

[friendly_iconoclast]

52. Only suicides by gun decreased- overall, suicides by all methods increased

It doesn't make it better simply because guns weren't used- the dead are still dead,
and there's more of them:

http://www.ct.gov/ocme/cwp/view.asp?a=2165&q=295120

[La Lioness Priyanka]

55. at a lower rate than the projected rate. had these laws not been implemented the rate of suicide in

CT would be much higher now.

[friendly_iconoclast]

61. Try another excuse- no "projected rate" was mentioned in the article.

Suicide is suicide, and it is not 'better' simply because another method is used

[Travis_0004]

38. Its even worse than that

The law banning handgun permits was passed in 2007.

In 2008, suicide rates went up in ALL OF THE US AND EUROPE.

Since I know nothing about causation and correlation, I can only assume that repealing one gun law in one state led to an increase of suicides in half the globe.

There was also a global financial meltdown, but lets ignore that, since slate says it was caused by one state repealing one law. I can then assume that if we re-pass the law suicides will go back down in half the globe. Except for Japan, they manage suicide just fine without access to guns.

[Kang Colby]

48. I find it shocking that anyone would buy into this easily refutable "study"

but then I remember how strong confirmation bias is. Gun control advocates are true believers, thus anything that confirms that belief is held up as gospel. Regardless of where it came from.

Who authored this study? Daniel Webster. Daniel Webster has spent his entire professional career in gun control advocacy. http://www.experts.scival.com/jhu/expert.asp?u_id=970

Where does Daniel Webster work? Oh, the *Bloomberg* School of Public Health. A gun control advocate, working in a public health school that is named after the world's most wealthy gun control baron...former NYC mayor Michael Bloomberg.

I don't post "studies" from the NRA for the same reason I would hope gun control advocates would question their own "studies". I haven't read the actual "study" in this case because I can't find it, but Daniel Webster's group often uses basic statistics to cherry pick correlations that align with the gun control world view.

I will present the actual Connecticut suicide data and some basic calculations I performed with Excel. The raw data was taken from here:http://www.ct.gov/ocme/cwp/view.asp?a=2165&q=295126

I adjusted for population changes each year, and the source of the data was taken from here: https://www.google.com/#q=Conneticut+population

The statistics below show the change in the population adjusted suicide rate year over year. For example, between 1990 and 1991 there was a 5.73% increase in the population adjusted suicide rate and between 1991 and 1992 there was a 14.36% decrease in the population adjusted suicide rate.

Additionally, I included summary statistics for 1995-2014 to evaluate the effectiveness of the purchase permit program implemented in 1995 as to align with the "study". I thought it was responsible to include earlier years in the PY change data to show fluctuations prior to the implementation of the gun control law.

PY Change = Change From Prior Year

Year PY Change
1991 5.73%
1992 -14.36%
1993 2.26%
1994 0.32%
1995 1.26%
1996 -10.56%
1997 -0.69%
1998 -5.94%
1999 5.20%
2000 6.66%
2001 -7.40%
2002 -0.35%
2003 -2.09%
2004 12.46%
2005 -7.47%
2006 -5.98%
2007 -7.42%
2008 16.79%
2009 3.92%
2010 12.58%
2011 3.63%
2012 0.27%
2013 -11.29%
2014 6.97%

Geometric Mean Yearly Increase (Compound Annual Growth Rate): .23% (1995-2014)
Mean Yearly Increase: .53% (1995-2014)
Total Increase in the Population Adjusted Suicide Rate (1995-2014) 3.36%

So what did we learn? Total population adjusted suicides increased between 1995-2014 3.36%.

So let me get this straight, suicides go up .23% per year on average, and somehow this is supposed to illustrate that gun control lowers the suicide rate? Looking at this you could come away thinking that gun control increased the population adjusted suicide rate 3.36% between 1995-2014. Now, you'd be wrong, but you would't be any more wrong than the gun control "researchers".

[Recursion]

50. Suicide is the real open and shut case to me

There's simply no way to sincerely doubt that correlation: availability of guns leads to higher "successful" suicides, period. And since that's 2/3rds of US gun deaths, a policy that puts suicide front and center could save the most lives.

[friendly_iconoclast]

62. How could this be so, given that suicide by other means more than 'took up the slack'?

[alarimer]

54. I see the gun apologists are out in force.

Since the CDC is not allowed to fund studies on guns as a public health issue, this is the best we can do for now. I suspect gun nuts don't want really studies because it will show them that in reality, guns are far more dangerous to public health than a lot of other things.

67 children killed accidentally this year. One kid killed another because she wouldn't show him her puppy, because his stupid redneck parents kept a gun within easy reach. One 2-year old shot his grandmother when he found a gun in the seat back of the car.
Again, stupid fucking gun nut people keeping guns unsecured.

How many is enough? Is this kind of collateral damage okay??? Just how many deaths due to guns is okay? 1? 1 million? I guess no amount is too high. Blah, blah, blah "It's MA RIGHTS" Blah blah blah.

[villager]

58. Of course they are. The same personality matrix that clings to guns also demands the smothering...

...of any meaningful discussion/exchange on the issue.

No "cracks in the edifice" must be allowed!