Why should "education" cost money?

[kentuck]

Why should knowledge not be provided to society in general? Why should people have to mortgage their futures to acquire an education?

The "capitalists" like to blame the "people" for wanting "free stuff" - like education, medical care, and a roof over their heads, and food on their tables.

These "capitalists" do not believe they have any responsibility to society. Their only goal in life is to acquire everything they are capable of acquiring without any interference from government or regulations.

All the Republican candidates for President talk about Democrats wanting to give away all this "free stuff". This will be the end result o Bernie and Hillary's "socialism", they argue.

But the problem is not with "socialism" - the problem is with "capitalism". The problem is with thsoe those that purchase the representatives of our democracy. The problem is with those that tear down our own country, that has been built with the blood and sweat of the American people, in order to search the world for the small corner where they can make the most profits for themselves and their shareholders. That is what they do. And it is wrong.

[whatthehey]

1. It doesn't. Schools and degrees do

But libraries are free, torrent sites abound with both commercially produced and personally recorded lectures as well as textbooks. There are websites filled with experts on every academic subject keen to prove that fact, and there is no longer any excuse for saying there is no peer support available.

If you want to become an expert on economics and you have the time it's easy to do and free. If you want the piece of paper from XYZ State proving you are one, then refer to what you learned about scarcity and various ROI measures, NPV especially.

[GreatGazoo]

2. I think the real issue for billionaires is that socialism eclipses many private industries.

Health care in the US is a disease maintenance system -- little to no prevention, little to no cures, instead mostly long term drugs and medical services. Socialized medicine would shrink the percentage of dollars going to such goods and services through efficiency and prevention.

A big part of the US economy now is financial services (credit, debt, lending). There is a big incentive for those in the credit industry to see COL continue to outpace wages. It fuels the credit industry. The 30 year mortgage seems designed to saddle you with debt for your entire working life. There is a lemming-like push to score high schools by the percentage of their graduates that go on to college. College is currently archaic and overly expensive. By itself it is no guarantee of a better job but does guarantee you will be in some major debt.

Education IS free. You can learn about anything, read almost any work written in the last 5000 years, free. You can view lectures, read Shakespeare, study biology, learn to fix cars all free. College is about buying credentials, about having roughly the same experience and path that your future corporate boss had and putting a major brand, the brand of the college (and their expensive football team) on your resume and yourself.

[kentuck]

3. But should "knowledge" be measured by a simple piece of paper?

Or by what you know and can contribute to make society better? Should not education be a shared sacrifice and not a money machine for the big banks and universities?

[GreatGazoo]

6. Not defending it at all. I think college should be completely redesigned

since it is still based on going to large lecture halls where stuff is written on a board and you copy it -- the same system they used before electric lighting.

An easier and more valid way to credential people would be to allow people to sign up for say, a proctored exam and then have that credentialing available when they approach employers. In other words maybe there is a fee for the test but how you prepare for the test is up to you. I think they do something similar to this in France.

Before college, education is a shared benefit. It is in the interest of all that we have a populace which understands basic concepts of math, science, language and our checkered history. Basic education should remain free and mandatory of course, but college in 2015 is a debt factory, badly in need of an update, cost reduction and re-alignment with the future job market.

In the bigger picture we see that GDP includes suffering, waste, prisons and all kinds of things that would be best if they were limited. Instead they all count the same in GDP; efficiency is punished, waste and excess is encouraged, environmental destruction puts points on the board in terms of GDP. Rebuilding after a hurricane scores more GDP points than better preparing for one, the more destruction, the more GDP. The same people who complain that free college would be "free stuff" seem to have no complaints about the government subsidizing junk foods which create lifelong health problems. Banksters have no problem with government programs that help people buy their first house. The targets seem to be things which compete with or preclude private businesses, or things which would keep people out of debt (or additional debt).

[kentuck]

7. In my opinion...

...education is used to keep the present class distinctions in place. Rather than measuring "credentialed" vs " non-credentialed, pehaps we should measure the "credentialed" vs the "less-credentialed"? This would put everyone on a more level playing field and make for a more fair and egalitarian society.

You make some good points.

[HughBeaumont]

5. "about having roughly the same experience and path that your future corporate boss had"

Which, in turn, he or she more than likely had a relatively inexpensive head start at.

My generation (X) had the last period of semi-affordable higher learning in this country. Even a lot of us had some student loan debt, but not to the extent everyone going to college after 1999 has.

That second paragraph has been spot-on for the last three decades; the start of which kicked off the decoupling of productivity and the cost of living to a worker's inflation-adjusted wages.

[daredtowork]

16. College is buying connections as well as credentials

This is why online degrees are a terrible idea. What happens at college is that young people create relationships outside their immediate family or geo-local hierarchies. This is why prestigious colleges are "upward mobility machines": the credential provides the upward, and the physical relocation provides the mobility. Also, the stepping stone of college housing allows rural kids to transition to urban areas. While they are still in college housing, they can get a job and accumulate enough money for a deposit plus first and last months rent.

[hill2016]

4. check out edx

it has free online lectures from the best schools on the world.

At the undergrad/grad level.

[Nye Bevan]

8. Because teachers deserve to be paid a good salary?

Education will always "cost money". The only issue is, how much of this should be paid by taxpayers.

[kentuck]

9. Of course, but it should be a shared sacrifice...

If we can pay the generals the big bucks, surely we could pay teachers and professors good salaries?

[Human101948]

10. Star professors (like generals) do get ridiculous salaries and perks...

It's the teaching assistants and associate professors who are paid like the enlisted men.

[kentuck]

11. We could argue that the "market" should determine their salaries...

...as it could with doctors and other fields of study.

But "good" salaries should not mean "ridiculous" salaries.

[Arugula Latte]

14. In the case of higher education, there's almost always little connection between

professors' salaries and the cost of attending that institution.

[tk2kewl]

12. Open source everything

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jun/19/open-source-revolution-conquer-one-percent-cia-spy

http://p2pfoundation.net/Open-Source_Everything_Manifesto

[mmonk]

13. Because our god lords say we have them thar taxes for big guvimint

if we have those "guvmint schools" and we should not tax our god lords because it will hurt our economy and is too librul fer murika, whose greatness was given through the generosity of our god lords, the rich. then thars those deficits cause by those lazy disabled people and elderly, them thar takers.

[Cal33]

15. Unfortunately, our system is still, to a certain extent, influenced by that of the British.

Oxford and Cambridge were, initially, for the nobility only. And so were Eton and Harrow.

In the continental Europe of today, there is no such thing as a private university. Only
State Universities exist, and they are all free, except for a nominal registration fee every
semester. Anyone who graduates from high-school can automatically continue their
education there.

But here's the rub (isn't there always a rub?): The standards are high, and those who
don't reach them have to repeat the entire year. Most students do not graduate from
high-school. Those who flunk out can continue in trade schools. {Not every kid wants
to be a high-school graduate, either. Some deliberately choose to go to trade school.}
And when they graduate from trade-school, most of them are competent, and make a
good living. An auto-mechanic can really fix your car. And in Switzerland, a graduate
from a secretarial school can take dictation in three languages, and some of them even
4, the fourth one usually being English.

I think the continental system is better than the British one.