General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsjust curious who thinks we should take more Syrian refugees
I posted a link to Senator Durbin's impassioned plea for a Democratic initiative to take in 100,000 refugees from Syria.
Speech
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027271991
Press release
I'm surprised at how few views the post has. I'm curious now if people don't think we should take in refugees from Syria.
35 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited | |
We should but no more than the 10,000 President Obama is requesting | |
1 (3%) |
|
We should take in the 100,000 Senators Durbin, Warren and other Dems are requesting | |
1 (3%) |
|
100,000 is nothing compared to how many we should take in | |
25 (71%) |
|
We shouldn't allow any more than are already here. | |
6 (17%) |
|
some other answer I will explain in a reply | |
2 (6%) |
|
0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll |
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Whatever number decided is fine with me since those in the know have a bigger picture.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Let's not forget that some of those "in the know" deny climate change
Thank you!
enid602
(8,615 posts)Maybe a large number could be resettled to the large spread that Bushco bought at the headwaters of the Parana River in Paraguay. Largest source of fresh water in SA. You know, the one he bought a few days after invading Iraq. He sent one of his daughters down there to sign the docs while she was touring for UNESCO. Very discreet.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)We are basically the same area as China with one quarter the population, and the entire western half of China is some of the least-densely-settled land in the world.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)against in favor of Syrian refugees. Not the Syrians' fault or anything, but for some reason in some places they have been getting the best camps, best tents, best food, most assistance, being "fast" tracked (a highly misleading term, but, still, faster than others) while others are in bad shape.
How about...Yemenis, Afghans, Eritrians, Libyans, Iraqis, Nigerians.... How many should we take in? Should they be in addition to Syrians?
Should the fact that we take in people from Central and South America that Europe does not be considered when we figure out what our duty is?
Recursion, since we can't just dump people in trouble out on the high plains a more realistic evaluation would be immigration compared to ability of our existing population to absorb them. Speaking of, we do a lot of just that. Although we have less than 5% of the world's population, we attract about 20% of the world's migrants. A quarter of all Americans are first- or second-generation. We ARE truly a nation of immigrants.
Just some stuff to think about. That some European leaders find it expedient to claim we are not "doing our share," doesn't mean it is completely, or even mostly, true.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)How many are there? It'd be nice to know that before we start throwing numbers around.
marym625
(17,997 posts)I try to catch your stuff. Great article and perfect picture
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Too bad I left Chi-town in the late '80s.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Right before Cubs fever
I'm in the San Francisco East Bay area
Yes, you have a fan!
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)VTA runs a bus up to BART at Fremont, or as I call it, the "Gateway To Civilization".
Awesome! I live about a mile from Fremont in Union City. We'll have to meet up!
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)generally myself, arcane1, and Hell Hath No Fury. Both of them are in SF. The usual destination is Tommy's Joynt at Van Ness and Geary, "home of the buffalo stew".
Then again, since it's such a PITA for me to get up there without a car , perhaps we could scare up some other South Bay DUers and go someplace I can actually get to (that is, downtown San Jose ).
marym625
(17,997 posts)We'll figure something out
merrily
(45,251 posts)I believe the reference is to Union City, NJ, but wth?
marym625
(17,997 posts)Thanks, Marily!
merrily
(45,251 posts)Yes we are. And we're grateful to us, too
merrily
(45,251 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)I'll ask.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)terrorism? I still have the Tsarnaevs on the brain. Seems likely that allowing large numbers quickly will allow some AQ/ISIS sympathizers to slip through.
marym625
(17,997 posts)I highly doubt that's a serious issue. Just my humble opinion. But I understand your concern
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Seriously, I am not that worried about AQ/ISIS sympathizers. Their ability to wreak havoc here seems about on a par with our regular, run of the mill, all-American criminals. Somebody killed three people? Just another day in America.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Around ten percent.
marym625
(17,997 posts)BainsBane
(53,031 posts)100k is a good start.
marym625
(17,997 posts)mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)If you take in too many at once it could lead to problems finding places to settle them. Settle 100k and then once you have a plan to place more open the doors again.
I would start with families, women with children, elderly and disabled. Pull all our military out of the middle east and use the money to help the people instead. Mobile homes with schools, playgrounds, places to garden, etc etc. That would be way cheaper in the long run. Heck partner with business to open factories nearby....maybe to make more mobile homes...
marym625
(17,997 posts)I don't think we really have to be too worried about vetting. Not that it shouldn't be done but that it would be done well. These people are suffering.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)which I'm guessing is more than other nations combined...
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2015/09/247115.htm
marym625
(17,997 posts)And it's mentioned in Durbin's speech. Are you saying that's enough and we shouldn't take in refugees?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)when Germany is letting them all in??
marym625
(17,997 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)for the military-aged men to fight and take back their country, instead of fleeing...
Of course the dynamic is a bit different now that the Russians are involved...They're going to stomp any anti-Assad forces like ants...
marym625
(17,997 posts)I don't want to get into the virtues and evils of what you're saying. If someone feels helpless, persecuted, their very lives are in danger, we should do what we can. Just my humble opinion
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)No doubt, many people believe the right thing to do is much more predicated on imaginary borders (a standard act of faith, I guess) and less on actual lives, actual hunger and actual safety-- especially convenient when we suggest everyone but ourselves make a sacrifice...
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)read some European newspapers.
marym625
(17,997 posts)eissa
(4,238 posts)Those that lean right will highlight the worst of the bunch and paint all refugees as being "the same." While those with a liberal bent do the opposite. I don't think it's too much to ask for the international community to look at the cases of those who are war refugees and respond as we would to this crisis as we have in the past, and as we would if the victims were not Middle Eastern.
840high
(17,196 posts)We cannot help our own children or old people.
eissa
(4,238 posts)trekking across continents on foot is no easy task, particularly for the elderly and children. When my in-laws made it they were alarmed at the number of children in their dingy, which nearly capsized in the rough waters. But they made it, are enrolled in German language classes now, and will hopefully become productive members of society, as most of these REFUGEES hope to be.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)eissa
(4,238 posts)The repressive government that never did anything for them? The rebels? Which ones? Not many care to have Christians in their ranks.
Also, fuck you. Go ahead and alert, it was worth it. We get it, you hate the refugees. They're not like you.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Last edited Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:44 AM - Edit history (1)
Have you never studied the history of war, any war?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Last edited Thu Oct 22, 2015, 07:22 AM - Edit history (1)
On Wed Oct 21, 2015, 06:03 PM you sent an alert on the following post:
Fight for what? For whom?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7274934
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
YOUR COMMENTS
He asked for it...
JURY RESULTS
A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Wed Oct 21, 2015, 06:06 PM, and voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT ALONE.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Would have been OK but you had to add the fuck you. Try acting like a grown up sometime.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Obvious hide is obvious.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: A little harsh, but I agree with the principle.
========================
========================
But make no mistake, that decision was motivated more by this forum's resentment of me than admiration of you...
And since you refuse to address me with a basic level of respect, you can address my ignore list from now on...
840high
(17,196 posts)right thing to do.
marym625
(17,997 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)night about a family living in a cardboard box. Their two year old wandered off and that's how they found out about this family.
marym625
(17,997 posts)The welfare reform from the Clinton era, all the horrible shit from the Reagan era, and so very many cuts in social programs for people, while elevating socialism for corporations, is completely and totally inhumane.
There is no reason we can't do both.
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)and we have played a major role in screwing up that country.
840high
(17,196 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)They can't get work permits. But I hear it's going to try to block some of the refugees in return for a $3.4 billion bribe from the EU.
Turkey also has a huge responsibility for destabilizing Syria itself.
840high
(17,196 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Turkey has pretty much said, "enough!"
840high
(17,196 posts)the same thing.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)So often aid money does not get to the people it is meant to help.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)It's plausible they'll return from Germany. It's not real plausible they'll all return from the other side of the planet.
So, there would have to be a very candid discussion about the future of these people before they get here. They likely would have to be treated as immigrants seeking citizenship or permanent residency.
Are they a good fit for assimilation and integration? Not everyone is.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Don't agree at all but I thank you for it
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)apply for refugee status here.
Those who can't or won't integrate will most likely leave when the opportunity presents itself, those who are happy here and are able to rebuild their lives here will most likely stay, going back to their home country for visits and such when it is safe enough to do so.
I don't see why the Syrians are very different from the Bosnians.
WDIM
(1,662 posts)They should be there fighting to save their country.
Women and children and elderly and disabled should be the only refugees we accept.
They young and able bodied should go back and demand peace in their land.
marym625
(17,997 posts)eissa
(4,238 posts)Very easy to say when you live in a country that has waged multiple wars in our lifetime where less than 5% of the population actually served. Most people, regardless of their country, actually don't like to fight in wars, especially in one where there is no good side.
Vet the applicants and let some in. We've done it in the past post WWII and at the end of the Vietnam War, we can do it again. We have the resources; if we can spend $500 million to train 5 rebels, we can afford to spend that on humanitarian efforts for those who are paying for our foreign policy blunders.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Why should the women not be fighting for their country as well?
I assumed it was because of the culture. But maybe it wasn't.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)On other, less diverse message boards.
msongs
(67,395 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)Since you obviously don't think for a second what you said will actually happen, are you saying we shouldn't take any more?
eissa
(4,238 posts)had no problem with us taking in refugees post WWII. I wonder if they would feel the same if the refugees we were asked to take in were from Iceland. Doubt it.
obnoxiousdrunk
(2,910 posts)Last edited Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:36 PM - Edit history (1)
840high
(17,196 posts)about fixing things here first.
eissa
(4,238 posts)We can find trillions for our war adventures, we can use a fraction of that to help the victims we created.
840high
(17,196 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)their countries and now they are running from a hopeless situation that we have created.
Unfortunately I do not see TPTB doing anything except token efforts. And if we continue down the kind of political road we are on now they will pit the refugees against the poor so that they can cut their benefits as well. We live in a very greedy self-centered country.
BTW I think the laws would allow you to help relatives without this refugee plan.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)It's also less expensive.
marym625
(17,997 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)they have done quite well for themselves and added to our economic growth.
Stinky The Clown
(67,792 posts)And we should do that for ALL such refugees.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Amen to that!
frizzled
(509 posts)That would be nice and fair; and as religious whackjobs, they'll all get along.
I'd start by giving the refugees the houses of registered republican donors. Guess they'll need guns, too; fortunately many of these boys are pretty handy with an AK.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Due to those wars, you and I both know, that will never happen.
So, you still think we should take in some refugees?
frizzled
(509 posts)Put a special poll tax on all registered Republicans to resettle refugees and confiscate their homes via lottery.
marym625
(17,997 posts)But those who are in, or were in, office and voted for or pushed for war, and any corporation that lobbied for war, goes before the lottery
frizzled
(509 posts)nt
marym625
(17,997 posts)I like it!
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Such as Hilary, Biden, and Kerry?
frizzled
(509 posts)So sure, why not.
ozone_man
(4,825 posts)and let the secular Syrians have Syria. Why should they have to leave, because the U. S. Is supporting the radical Islamists?
marym625
(17,997 posts)Actually, though obviously never going to happen. But yeah. Serves us right. And they should all be supported by Bush, Cheney, Powell and Wolfowitz
(your post was tripled)
ozone_man
(4,825 posts)and let the secular Syrians have Syria. Why should they have to leave, because the U. S. Is supporting the radical Islamists?
ozone_man
(4,825 posts)and let the secular Syrians have Syria. Why should they have to leave, because the U. S. Is supporting the radical Islamists?
pipoman
(16,038 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)But we know that isn't going to happen overnight. We do know these people are dying now. And yes, I know there are immigrants here suffering, just like so many of our citizens are suffering. It all can and should be fixed. But making one dependent on the other will ensure nothing happens
jwirr
(39,215 posts)IVoteDFL
(417 posts)I agree it is the right thing to do.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)The entire industrialized world, us most of all, owe these people succor.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Absolutely!
prouddemfromaustin44
(52 posts)We have an obligation to live up to our supposed ideals of being "The Land of Opportunity". But in any case, the world community should be doing everything they can to take care of these refugees. Otherwise, these people will undoubtedly suffer a terrible fate.
marym625
(17,997 posts)I don't know if you listened to Durbin's speech but his relating this to Vietnam was heart wrenching
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)Damn straight we did
Lyric
(12,675 posts)We live in a small mobile home, but the other members of my family would happily give up a bedroom and the living room to a small refugee family--or even a large one, if necessary. Sign us up. It's killing us to watch what they're going through.
Why doesn't our government give us the option of adopting a refugee family? Bring them here. Let us help them. Compared to their plight, even the poor here in America are wealthy.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Here's a site that may help you out. While I can't find anything on the site that tells you how to do that, I'm sure if you email them, they can give you more information. Help Syrian Refugees
I know before, during and after WWII, there were private people going to Europe to bring refugees here. Many of them spent every dime they had to at least get Jewish children out. The U.S. wasn't very helpful. Here's a documentary about one couple that valiantly fought to bring 50 children here 50 Children I'm not sure you can watch it from that link. If not, I think it's on this great site Free Documentaries
I wish I could host a family. Not possible at the moment since I'm staying with my brother.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)several families who were helped in my own community. One problem that develops is that when the sponsored refugee is helped so much while the poor family in the same community is shunned.
One of the churches gave them free rent of a furnished home, a new car, clothes, and a good job. That was not very well received by those who were poorer.
A problem I remember with the Cuban refugees was that instead of taking a woman and her children the church took two men who they decided would end up helping their own family. It did not quite work out that way. One of the men turned out to be a criminal and they other was a real con-artist. If given a choice take the woman and children.
YabaDabaNoDinoNo
(460 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)We owe it to them
YabaDabaNoDinoNo
(460 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Of course that would mean about 20 or so.
marym625
(17,997 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)going to Arab nations already.
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)And concentrate on taking care of the people already in our country who are struggling.
marym625
(17,997 posts)JCMach1
(27,556 posts)for refugees...
Note, these countries are the major cause for the ongoing wars in both countries.
Sure, the US can do more, but the Gulf States need to help themselves this time.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)Help by taking some of the millions?
JCMach1
(27,556 posts)lie firmly at the feet of the Saudis and the other Gulf States... http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/14/america-s-allies-are-funding-isis.html
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)and there'll be no need for the real moderates, shias, christians and minorities to leave.
marym625
(17,997 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)especially south american refugees from drug wars that we help start. This country is giant and does have the space to do this.
marym625
(17,997 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)refugees we created who fled to both Jordan and Syria, now we are helping drive THEM from Syria AGAIN.
War mongering nations who are responsible should be the ONLY nations obliged to take in the victims of their Wars for Profit.
It isn't the responsibility of nations who did not join in our Imperial Wars.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)other people, like the ones who live there, far, far too little. Poor little mindless peacenicks who'd be living happy lives building sandcastles, grabbing and eating crabs and snakes as they crawled by? Is that the picture? They don't deserve that contempt. They're PEOPLE, and damned conservative ones at that (conservative = more war), with governments that typically combine secular and religious leaders in one position (gov+religion = more war). The history of that region is one of thousands of years of wars and massacres, of great civilizations that arose long before northern Europe's, declined and were replaced, or were destroyed and replaced. They have books, ones they've been writing themselves for centuries, and can even read, cultures, ethics, morals, religions, civilizations, governments.
We've done some bad things, all right, but if the U.S.A. had never approached the middle east, things would not be all that different. Except its wealthy would be be poorer.
Oh, yes! Thought of one -- We are far more responsible for global warming than any other one country, and that is one of the major destabilizing problems in the middle east and Africa. But even there the oil-producing nations have been doing all they can to encourage burn-baby-burn on the planet. They are victims, yes, but hardly innocent or too stupid to look after themselves.
This is a notion of what the great library at Alexandria probably looked like 3 centuries before the birth of Christ. It probably held a half million scrolls before it and they were destroyed. A dreadful loss to humanity.
marym625
(17,997 posts)But I wouldn't say don't to the non warmongers.
JCMach1
(27,556 posts)that would be a multi-sided civil war where the most dangerous and disruptive groups have been bankrolled by the Saudis and the Gulf States...
Meanwhile, the Assad regime has become a proxy for Iran and the other Shia in the ME.
Our invasion of Iraq has had little to do with the destabilization of Syria... it has merely added to the magnitude of the clusterfrak..
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)So, yeah, we did help create Syria's refugee problem.
JCMach1
(27,556 posts)This is largely a problem that should be resolved by regional powers and the Gulf Arab states that created most of this mess.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)The MIC is probably going to destabilize Europe next, and then finally America.
At that point, we'll all be wondering why we let them dismantle so many countries without stopping them, but by then it'll be too late, they'll have turned on us, and there'll be no one left to defend us.