I made a racially insensitive remark at work

[lapislzi]

As soon as the words came out of my mouth, I realized what a complete idiot I am. How I could possibly have thought such a remark would not be perceived for exactly what it was: insulting. The person about whom I was speaking was understandably deeply offended and angry. I immediately apologized, verbally and in writing. She was having none of it. That is clearly her prerogative.

Naturally I was called into the CEO's office and presented with a written warning which will never, ever go away. Apparently I am lucky to still have a job, and it's only because the CEO chose not to comply with the offended person's demand that I be fired.

The fact that I have been with the company for almost two decades and am a "key player" makes not one bit of difference, nor should it. The fact that I've never said or done anything remotely like this before matters not at all. The fact that other offensive speech (of which there's quite a bit) in our office goes unchallenged, is of no consequence. I said it; I own it; and I will pay for it for the rest of my life. I have never wished more for a "rewind" button to pull those words back into my mouth. I'm not "that person" (even if for a moment I was). I've tried very hard to educate myself from a racist upbringing not to be "that person."

My question to DUers is: how, over time, can I demonstrate my goodwill and atone for my error? Is there anything at all that can be done, now or in the future, to make amends to this person (without seeming like a disgusting suck-up)? Obviously, "think before you open your big mouth" is at the top of that list. You can be sure I'll be hiding under a rock for the next million years, so my mere presence doesn't give offense.

If DU thinks I deserve further excoriation, then bring it. This is not about my comfort level, and never will be. I want to fix my behavior in demonstrable ways. I also want to improve the general tenor of the company so that sexist or or gay "jokes" will not go unchallenged in the future.

We're a smallish company without an HR director, so I'm kind of on my own here. How does, or should, the punishment fit the crime?

Someone? Anyone?

Signed, ashamed.

[bravenak]

1. Maybe find a cultural sensitivity training program.

[Reter]

2. What did you say?

Joke or comment?

[lapislzi]

8. It was intended to be a jokey compliment

But--I'd appropriated it from African American context, which is a clear no-no. It's OK if Spike Lee or Key & Peele say it. It is NOT OK if I say it. I should have known better. I sure do now.

There are maybe some African American people I know who might not have been offended and taken it in the spirit in which it was intended--or maybe said, "hey, don't do that, it makes you sound like a jerk." She is not one of those people.

The lesson here, as I see it, is, it's just never OK. Don't even try. At best, you will look like a fool. At worst, you could ruin your own life.

[trumad]

16. Wow!

So you used the N-Word at work?

Did you use N_____R? or N____A.

Not that it matters---it was pretty damn dumb to use in the work place.

[lapislzi]

39. Yes, it was pretty much the dumbest thing that ever came out of a mouth that often says dumb things.

I didn't use the worst N word. I used a phrase that gets used in a pop culture context, but it was clearly highly inappropriate, even if the person knew what I was referring to. Indefensible.

I might as well have stood in the lobby and announced that I was about to commit career suicide if anyone cared to watch.

[Heddi]

58. I'm taking that you said something like "Nigga Please"

? Correct

Yeah, that was a pretty asshole thing to do.

[lapislzi]

66. That is not what I said.

I have never used "nigga" or any of its variations in my life, and I don't expect to start.

I said an asshole thing for a white person to say, even though it's been said about Morgan Freeman and the President, and by people like Spike Lee and Key and Peele, for whom it is presumably OK. I said it because she fixed the printer when nobody else could.

I think you get the idea.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

74. "Gangsta?" "Pimp"?

I seriously don't know. I commend you for apparently being more pop culture wise than myself and your co-worker, I guess. I thought Key and Peele were supposed to be cool.

[alcibiades_mystery]

75. "...for whom it is presumably OK..."

Your claims of contrition are consistently counterbalanced by these snide justifications.

You called somebody a "REDACTED" because they REDACTED. It's not even a correct use of the phrase, which is a literary phrase referring to a stock character in the white imagination. When it is used about Morgan Freeman and President Obama, it's generally being used critically, as a critique of the function of their characters or actions in the white imagination. Ditto the way Spike Lee and Key and Peele use it. They are critiquing a particular representation of blackness in white literary and filmic works.

Your usage of it was just ignorant, and, yes, ridiculously offensive.

Now, I don't know if you should get fired for something like that (probably not, in my view), but you are continuing to justify yourself throughout this thread, including in the OP.

Reasons for redactions: I don't want this coming up on some search and getting you in yet more trouble. You'd be wise to nix this whole thread.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

77. Whoa

Okay, if THAT'S what they said, then now I get it. Because that's pretty close to using the Nword.

[lapislzi]

81. If it sounds like I am trying to defend myself, I truly am not.

I freely admit my ignorance, which should be obvious by now. You are right, and I am wrong. I admitted as much in the moment, after the fact, and will continue to do so. Under no circumstances was the remark justified, and if I could take it back, I would. I spoke stupidly and without thinking. I offended someone whom I respect, and I am deeply sorry for having done so. NOT for being reprimanded, which I richly deserved. I am sorry for being part of the problem. Or being THE problem. I'm not trying to get a pass from the person I offended, or from anyone. I don't deserve one.

If anything, I'm trying to learn from this thread and from this mistake. So I can be less part of the problem.

If it sounds like I'm trying to justify myself by my use of words like "presumably," it's because I truly lack understanding. That is what I am trying to fix. I hate ignorance, in myself most of all.

AB, I am a great admirer of your posts, and I thank you for taking the time to comment.

[theboss]

161. Did you call yourself the HNIC?

I hope you called yourself the HNIC.

[lapislzi]

162. I don't know what that is.

I don't think I want to know what that is. I'm pretty sure by the context it's something I should never say, like the other thing I should never have said. To answer your question, no, I didn't call myself that.

[theboss]

164. Head <BLANK> in Charge

It's an awesome phrase, but probably not for you to use.

[cwydro]

83. I wish someone would clue those of us in who are not so pop culture savvy.

?

[Heddi]

95. He called a coworker a "magic negro"

because they fixed the xerox machine. IT was posted in the original version of post 75,then redacted.

you can see the original version here, if you scroll to the bottom of the screen
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7289598

[cwydro]

103. Ok, thank you. I'd never have gotten that on my own lol.

Honestly, never have heard it, though seen it online.

[ecstatic]

135. +1000.nt

[cwydro]

82. I don't get what you said.

My imagination is probably coming up with worse than what you said, and I wouldn't doubt if many here are having the same problem.

[lapislzi]

87. Post 77

I'm ashamed that it even bears repeating. Those are not words an ignorant idiot like myself should be using, ever. Even if I was trying to be clever and it was the worst thing I could have done.

Those who figured it out agree that it's the equivalent of the N word, and that I am a total asshole for having used it.

Edited cause I can't even type right.

[cwydro]

88. I'm sorry for being so dense.

I'm one of the few whites in a mostly black workplace. I hear things I wouldn't say to any co-worker on a daily basis, but for the life of me I just can't figure this one out. I understand there are some things whites just cannot say.

I've never had the urge to use the n word anyway, in any of its iterations. I was raised to believe it is vile; I flinch when I hear young black co-workers (usually male) use it with each other. But that's not my business.

Whatever you said has been said about President Obama and Morgan Freeman? I can't think of anything they even have in common other than being prominent black Americans. I'm clueless here.

I certainly understand if you don't want to put it out here on DU, but I'm perplexed.

Now I'll be trying to figure it out for hours lol.

But hey, don't be so hard on yourself. I'm sorry that the co-worker would not accept the apology. Sounds like she might have just felt it was the final straw, ya know?

I also don't find a workplace that allows peeps to say, "move your fat ass" to be a family type atmosphere or very friendly. That would offend me for sure if I heard it, unless it was said to someone very skinny. However, it is still an inappropriate comment for a professional workplace, imo.

[LisaL]

93. I still don't get what was said either.

[Heddi]

94. He called a coworker a "magic negro"

because they fixed the copier or something
(Note to alerters--look at post 75's original posting, it's there. I'm not calling anyone a magic negro, as I think it is a disgusting term to use, even accidentally as the OP supposedly did)

You can use this link, scroll to the bottom of the page to see the original, unedited post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7289598

[cwydro]

105. Unfamiliar with this term, but no. I wouldn't even think to use it.

No.

[smirkymonkey]

125. I've never heard it either.

[cwydro]

129. It strikes me wrong anyway.

No way, no how would I say that. Actually, I really could not imagine how to work that into a conversation.

Nor would I want or need to.

The "magic Negro" fixes the printer? I'm sorry here on some level for the OP, but yes, I find that to be quite offensive also.

No idea where the OP lives, but I can't imagine anyone white (or black) using that term in the workplace in North Carolina. No. Just not. Ever.

At the beginning of this thread, I just had no idea what the words were. I imagined all kinds of things. But wow, not even these.

[PoliticAverse]

133. It has its own Wikipedia page with history...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro

[cwydro]

136. Wow, well, I guess I learned something today.

I have watched a lot of Spike Lee films, so I recollect it now thinking back.

But I'm pretty sure it was offensive then too, right?

There's all kind of wrong on this imo.

[Heddi]

96. Wait, you're flabbergasted at the use of "nigga" but "magic negro"

is okay enough to have just rolled off your tongue? THey're like one degree of separation apart.

[lapislzi]

99. No argument from me.

I am not in any way defending the remark. I'd be a bigger idiot to try. It is not okay. It was never okay. It was stupid and thoughtless.

I wouldn't say that the remark rolled off my tongue. I would say that my internal filter suffered a catastrophic fail. I should know better. Everyone should know better. I was immediately aware and immediately stricken with shame. Too late, obviously.

You're right, I may as well have used that other word. I doubt I could have offended her any more than I did.

[Blue_In_AK]

148. Did it have something to do with being rigged?

I have to call my Texan husband out on that periodically. He doesn't mean to do it, but I won't let him get away with it, even when it's just the two of us.

[Snow Leopard]

17. Sounds like you are being

Railroaded to me. Sticks and stones and all that. Not saying a reprimand was wrong but it is only human nature to pick up on others speech and accents. If a large portion get away with saying things then it stands to reason those things will get picked up by others. Of course I believe people are waaaay to easily offended.

[marmar]

23. Who appointed you arbiter of what people should or shouldn't be offended by?

And I don't know what kind of human nature you have, but I don't automatically assume it's OK to use others "speech and accents" mockingly.

[Snow Leopard]

29. Nobody did,

Nor did I suggest that. It is my opinion. As far as I know I'm still allowed to have them. I don't automatically assume it is ok to mock either, but if what this person said, and they qualified by saying this a one-off, is perfectly fine for others in our society to say then I think the level of outrage(firing) is over the top and indicative of someone who is too easily offended. Ymmv.

[kcr]

34. Of course you're still allowed to have them

And others are allowed to say what they think of them.

[gollygee]

37. She didn't get fired. n/t

Last edited Mon Oct 26, 2015, 11:50 AM - Edit history (1)

[gollygee]

25. It's easy to not get easily offended

when dehumanizing you isn't someone's joke.

[leftofcool]

3. I would just continue to be nice to said person without going overboard.

People do forgive once you prove yourself worthy of forgiveness. Just be kind, it will in time be forgiven.

[randome]

11. Yes, going overboard can make things worse.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[trumad]

4. Hard to answer the question without knowing what the hell you said.

If you said your Mama wears Army boots--well that's one thing.

If you said "You're a C-Word, N Word, B-word---well that's another.

[Brickbat]

5. It sounds like the punishment has already been meted out, so now it's up to you to do the work on

your own. You've apologized verbally and in writing; I'd say there's nothing more to do now for the person you spoke to, beyond "showing" and not "telling" how you're trying to evolve.

Have you dug into what you said and where it may have come from? It sounds to me you've learned a lesson; continuing to punish yourself probably isn't going to do much good. Keep reading, keep listening, keep learning.

[JayhawkSD]

6. I don't see any self examination reflected.

No words emanate from the mouth alone. They are the product of attitudes and manners of thought. I suspect you would do well to examine what led you to say what you said. Rather than worrying about how to get along at work, I would think it's important to examine how it reflects who you are and what is the lens through whach you see the world.

[JTFrog]

9. Well said. n/t

[lapislzi]

10. I am aware. I mentioned that I grew up in a racist background

I have worked to educate myself and detach myself from the attitudes I grew up with. This is a process, and obviously I have more work to do.

That's one part. Most of my life has been spent being a wiseass, and that doesn't always go well. Obviously I have more work to do. Not every action requires a snarky comment. Sometimes just "thank you" will do.

And, sometimes, we learn the hard way. Thank you for commenting.

[JayhawkSD]

19. I will repeat. There is a lack of self examination

"I'm not "that person" (even if for a moment I was)."

No one is someone just for a moment. That racist background has not been eradicated, as you seem to think by your "I'm not that person."

That comment let the cat out of the bag. Despite your desire to believe otherwise, it revealed your nature to the other person. You want us to give you a set of actions which will put the cat back in the bag. Can't be done.

The key to getting along with others is to be the kind of person who other people get along with. You cannot act that way, people see through acts in a heartbeat, you have to be that way. You need to be focused on who you are, not on what acts you can perform to make someone like you. Life is not an ongoing con job.

[lapislzi]

27. I do get what you're saying.

I do understand that I still have much work to do. Willingness is not enough. I thought I was overcoming my background. Clearly that isn't the case, at least not so far. That was a hard one for me to realize, but realize it I do.

I don't want to make this person like me. She never will and I don't blame her. I want to be a better person. I do want to contribute to an atmosphere of respect and dignity. I don't think that's a bad goal.

How does one unlearn bias? I'm not asking for a set of actions to "put the cat back in the bag" as you put it. I would like for there to be no cat and no bag. I've been asking this question for a long time, and I understand that it's bad form for an oppressor to ask an historically oppressed people how (the oppressors can) behave better. How best to get on with this work?

I think you're judging me unfairly to suggest that I'm trying to con anyone. I'm not suggesting that I want to continue harboring my secret (or not so secret) racial biases and skate through life as "racist lite." I don't want a pass on this. That's the last thing I want. I can't unthink what I thought any more than I can unsay what I said. I want not to think or say things like that ever again.

Is goodwill worth nothing? Is sincere effort worth nothing? If so, then what is a worthwhile action for me to take?

I am sorry if my words suggest that I'm being intellectually dishonest or disingenuous. I wouldn't be on these boards if I believed I was doing either.

[gollygee]

30. If you live in as racist a society as ours

and particularly if your family was as you say yours was, you're going to pick up stuff. It's called "socialization." It happens. Recognizing that it's a problem is a good start.

Here's a good article too: http://www.tolerance.org/supplement/white-anti-racism-living-legacy

I think you need to just keep learning and working on it, just like everyone else. We all should keep learning and working on it, whether we've done what you've done or not.

[randome]

42. Intentions count. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. Learn and move on.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

59. well in a 12 step program I use

I'd suggest a 'living amends' which means you demonstrate from here on out that you have learned a lesson and act and speak as such. Whether the other person ever comes around and forgives you is her business, not yours.

[TheBlackAdder]

110. +1 (But get that resume up to date, in case she takes it to the State Labor Board) nt

[JayhawkSD]

154. Well, I'm going by the question you posed in your OP.

"how, over time, can I demonstrate my goodwill and atone for my error?"

The better question would be "how can I become the better person who is not prone to making this kind of error?"

Some 30+ years ago it became apparent to me that in addition to a drinking problem I had a dishonesty problem and that, in reality, the dishonesty was a bigger issue and was at the root of my drinking. I resolved to demonstrate that I could be honest, and failed utterly. I had to work on becoming a different person, and in the process become a person for whom dishonesty (and drinking) was not a part of my makeup. Long task, involving overcoming insecurity, fear, family issues, etc.

My point is that being honest with others, and what others thought of me, what I demonstrate to others, does not matter. What matters is what kind of person I want to be, how I go about becoming that person. As long as I was focused on the dishonesty I was getting nowhere, but when I addressed the person as a whole the integrity emerged as part of the better person I became.

[randome]

13. Sounds like he has plenty of self-examination going on.

I think anyone is capable of saying something 'unwise'. We are all exposed to such comments every day, whether in discussions of them or hearing them said by coworkers. So if someone lapses and their internal filters don't do the job, it's something to be aware of, not something, IMO, to drag someone down in the dumps for the rest of their lives.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[Nay]

32. Agreed. I did not grow up in a racist household (in fact, it was just the

opposite) and, in my working life in a conservative, racist area, I have almost done what the OP has done. It was only because of the atmosphere of the society I was living in at the time. That shit gets into your head whether you want it to or not. And the shit can come out of your mouth before the filter kicks in.

[dmr]

7. The best thing to do is lead by example.

If there is a written record of reprimand, I'd write an apology to be attached to it. This way if it is reviewed in future years your input will be on record.

If the offended person discusses this with others - especially on a continuous basis, then you might have to address that, too.

I know it's hard, but sometimes we say things we don't mean, or don't even think in our daily thoughts. Sometimes we're just being sarcastic, or even want to be momentarily hurtful.

But, we all need to examine ourselves from time to time, because sometimes our spoken words do betray our secret thoughts.

[LisaL]

12. You already apologized to the person. She wouldn't accept your apology.

She also apparently reported you to human resources. If I were you I would leave this person alone. She could report you again for harassment if you continuously apologize. And then you can actually get fired.

[Xyzse]

14. I believe you've done what you can.

People do learn and evolve. Some are unable to let go, but that is definitely on them.

Sadly, there is not much else you can do other than be more careful in the future, and be more mindful of your thoughts, words and actions.

I am trying to do the same thing. You've even done a written apology.
Good luck, hopefully time will help.

[Act_of_Reparation]

15. You can't make someone forgive you.

Not to sound unsympathetic, of course. In my younger, more ignorant and disaffected years, I was a pretty horrible person. I said things then I would never dream of thinking -- much less saying -- today. It's been well over a decade since I turned around, and I still cringe to think of how I acted back in the day. Trust me: I know how you feel.

But the bad news is you really don't have that much control over the opinions of those you've slighted. The damage is done, and it is up to them to forgive you. And if they decide to, they'll do it at their own pace.

Your best course of action is to never say things like that again. Maybe, as others suggested, taking a cultural sensitivity course will be seen as a sign of goodwill.

[GliderGuider]

18. What about championing an anti-harassment training program for your workplace?

Let the smoke and flames die down for a bit first, then start working to get such a course brought in on a periodic basis. It will help others see in advance what you did not. I've been through one where I work, and they can do a world of good.

[ryan_cats]

20. When

When you accord victimhood with Sainthood, this is what you get.

You said a word and the offended person wanted you fired? Welcome to the end of the line with the perpetually offended (and entitled) crowd. This is where the years of PC b.s. have landed us.

You allowed this to happen by buying into the prevalent opinion that while it's horrible and racist to use an offensive word, others can use this supposedly offensive term as a term of endearment. Cognitive dissonance rules the day we'll forever rue.

[marmar]

24. "This is where the years of PC b.s. have landed us."

Someone needs a call on the clue phone.

[ryan_cats]

36. Five

Five years from now when you are sentenced to a re-education camp because you carelessly mentioned at work that you wore white after Labor day, you will remember this.

[gollygee]

38. You might have made a wrong turn somewhere. n/t

[Orrex]

43. Yeah! My thumbs were cut off because I used the wrong salad fork.

These PC brutes make it so hard to hit the space bar.

[randys1]

101. Holy smokes...what you just said is a little whacko

[gollygee]

21. You could

see if there's an organization in your area that does anti-racisim training, and then take their training, and give a copy of the certificate of completion to your employer to put in your file.

[lapislzi]

33. Thank you. This is a good idea.

I think the incident was also a wake-up call to the CEO who is among the worst offenders with his off-color "humor." I am hopeful that we will see these remarks disappear. That is the only "positive" I can take away from this incident. The fact that I'm the scapegoat/catalyst...well, that's the way it goes sometimes. As I said, I own it and I wouldn't even try to explain it away or say a word in my own defense.

[lonestarnot]

22. And you willingly have entered the DU confession box.

[Nye Bevan]

26. You mention that "other offensive speech" in your office "goes unchallenged".

You need to start challenging it. Misogynistic and homophobic remarks and "jokes" should not be tolerated either. Helping to put an end to all other kinds of bigoted hate speech that is tolerated in your office would be one way to make amends for your racist remark.

[TipTok]

28. Move on...

You can't control other folks...

[Kalidurga]

31. I also want to improve the general tenor of the company...

so that sexist or or gay "jokes" will not go unchallenged in the future.

It sounds like you answered your own question. If this is something that goes on a lot unchallenged and you are basically the first one to have been challenged then yes, you do have something to say to people who casually drop racist, sexist, and religion based jokes.

[librechik]

35. in this horrible dystopic world we live in all employment is a personal relationship

This may be obvious, but figure out where you fit in the hierarchy of the company. Maybe you're one of the uncles. Misbehaving uncles. And she is an aunt--a scandalized and offended aunt.

Sure she's mad, and rightly so. But you are still family. And you love and respect your sister, right?

If you stay cool (20 years at the company!) and model nothing but good behavior, eventually the bad feelings will be replaced by reactions to your improved image. People are usually too busy to hold a grudge within the family.

However, some people relish making things difficult for co-workers. They refer back to the forgiven trespass as if one mistake defines your entirety. You might not be able to win a game if that is your opponent. Try to avoid contact or confrontation. Just stay persistently on the "improved image" track.

But you have to be sincere. How did you make that mistake? Was it careless sarcasm? Do you hang out and socialize at work and forget how formal the relationships actually are? Is there loose talk around the water cooler? Do you use racial epithets in your off-hours yet try to have a different persona at work? Does anyone else in the "family" know that persona? Do you harbor secret, unresolved feelings about this person?

Be honest with yourself. This is a time for serious soul searching. If you need to make changes, do it quickly and faithfully and don't keep it a secret.

and update your resume. You are on thin ice. (sorry, but I've been there)

[lapislzi]

41. This is really good advice and I appreciate it.

I do love and respect all my colleagues. Even the difficult ones. We've been together a long time. People stay here for decades--literally. The ones who leave are poor fits for the family-type atmosphere--smart that you picked up on that.

Some of the people at the office actually call me "Mom" because I am the chief medical officer (I used to work with doctors), fire marshal (because I can usually keep a cool head in a crisis), and grief counselor (without giving too much away, I assumed this role after a mass shooting affected one of our colleagues).

What I'm not is a big socializer. I'm senior management, and the junior folks don't want to hang out with me, although I've mentored a couple of them. Also, I have a tendency to sarcasm that keeps people at arm's length except in the situations noted above. I know my mouth can get me into trouble. And so it has.

Thank you for your comments.

[librechik]

44. good luck and remember

act like the boss you are!

[Warren DeMontague]

40. Put me down under "just leave the person alone from now on"

any additional moves on your part to "atone" may not be welcomed or appreciated by them. If they are interested in you repairing the relationship, they will probably communicate that to you. It may be shot, though, so your best bet is probably to just let it be.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

73. I agree

And quite frankly, I'd want nothing to do with someone whose first move after I apologized was to call for my firing. Destroy someone's fucking life because someone was an asshole once? Not someone I'd want to deal with.

[REP]

127. From what the OP says a few posts up

It's possible that her admitted propensity to sarcasm may rub her coworker the wrong way - some personalities just don't mesh - and then the ill-advised (and wrongly used) racial comment may have just been the breaking point. If I had heard a colleague use the same term toward another, I would report it as well; there is really no way for that phrase to be acceptable in the workplace (and yes, I'd even say using it at work discuss white directors' use of black characters in movies such as Bagger Vance is not appropriate).

[matt819]

45. Ease up

I'll leave it to others to address the larger implications of the weirdness of life in today's workplace.

You apologized to the CEO. As difficult as it may be, apologize to the offended person. Document both in writing, at least for your own files.

If you continue to agonize over this, you'll only drive yourself nuts. Do your job, be a good person, etc.

If you're concerned about losing your job or somehow encountering job related issues, e.g., lack of promotion, go see a labor lawyer for a consultation. It will cost a few hundred bucks, but you will have laid the groundwork for later legal action, if needed, and you may receive more productive guidance than you might receive from well-meaning DUers.

[LisaL]

48. He already apologized to the offended person, verbablly and in writing.

Apology was not accepted. It's in the OP.

[karadax]

46. +1 to just leave it be.

It's done. Time heals wounds of any sort. Time and positive actions.

Refresh yourself on protected classes. You'd be surprised at how disproportionately they're enforced in the work place. Race and gender problems are always acted upon. The immigration stuff seems to go unchecked.

[babylonsister]

47. You

touched me with this and sound honestly contrite. Would it be too weird to mail your co-worker this?

We all have said and done boneheaded things we later regret (at least I have); I like the fact that we can learn and grow from them. I am all about forgiveness if it is asked for sincerely; life is too short for anything else.

[LisaL]

49. What would be the point of mailing "this" to the co-worker?

Never mind that discussing job problems on the internet can get someone fired.

[frizzled]

51. You live in a country that's incredibly sensitive about race. Don't hate yourself for tripping.

It doesn't make you a bad person, it shouldn't brand you for life, and it's a double standard that there are certain words blacks can say and whites can't.

Nonetheless, just be aware of what the invisible lines are.

One of my co-workers once said something that implied being gay was bad, and I just told him that wasn't okay. He over-reacted and couldn't stop apologizing. I had to calm him down. I certainly didn't want him to "atone" for anything afterward. That'd be cringeworthy.

I think people get far too defensive about such things. Everyone fucks up and offends people sometimes. Almost all of us just want to get on with our jobs.

[cabyio]

61. This is a reasonable response

This guy gets it. No one should be permanently punished or hell, even temporarily punished for saying something stupid ONE time. If you are constantly dropping racial slurs then sure, but one utterance of something that isn't even a direct racial slur. Seems like a simple apology is in order and that should be the end of it.

The offended person suggesting you should be fired is the crazy part.

[LexVegas]

52. Are you a racist? If not, I wouldn't worry about it too much. nt

[linuxman]

53. Resign.

If you're that torn up about it, you must have done something particularly awful which merits a resignation.

If it wasn't that bad, then move on and get over it. You did something unbelievably stupid (especially for a 20+year employee), but if your apology was thrown back at you, then there is literally no reason to pursue it further. Don't talk to the person again outside of completely necessary work interaction.

Resign or get over it. My 2 cents.

[lapislzi]

65. "That bad" is an extremely elastic concept.

Would I call it "that bad?" It doesn't matter what I would call it. Obviously she thought it was "that bad," because she wanted me fired for a first offense. I'm not the monitor of anyone's sensitivity level. If she thought it was that bad, it was that bad.

I didn't call her the N word. Not even I am that stupid. I used a phrase that I have heard used in popular culture, by African American people, about other African American people. There are a few of these types of phrases floating around. This particular one was not intended to be derogatory. It has even been used in the media to describe President Obama and persons such as Morgan Freeman, in a somewhat ironic context. Clearly I didn't think before I used it--that it's not appropriate for a white person to use, irony or humorous intent notwithstanding. It was pure stupidity with no malice aforethought.

I have considered resigning. It would be very difficult for me to get another job at my age, and certainly not one as good as the one I have. I am also not sure that that's a punishment that fits the crime, exactly. I give up my livelihood and career for a single mistake? That seems disproportionate, but rest assured, I have considered it.

[LisaL]

68. Stop beating yourself up. You apologized. Now move on.

Keeping on with the apologies isn't going to do you any good, because offended person made it clear she doesn't accept your apology.

[renate]

54. you sound genuinely contrite

I have nothing much to offer (except to second those suggesting to just let it be, now that you've apologized both verbally and in writing), but I really do want to give you a . You're fully aware that what you said was wrong and a horrible mistake, and I hope you can stop beating yourself up about it.

[YoungDemCA]

56. At least you recognize that what you said was racially insensitive and are bothered by it

And it sounds like you want to genuinely act better.

That puts you ahead of a lot of other people already, IMHO.

Best to you.

[luvspeas]

57. You officially are one of those people...

You say that the other people you work with including your boss is much worse. You have worked there 20 years and like it for its "family atmosphere" and that people who don't stay just don't fit in. Quit feeling sorry for yourself for a minute because somebody doesn't like you and consider what the person you offended must have to put up with day in and day out in a work environment like the one you describe. Perhaps you weren't ever paying attention to that and this person never felt like you were ever on her side. You worked there 20 years and it felt like family. She probably goes home disgusted every day that she has to walk into a warzone for a paycheck.

get over yourself and be happy you don't have to deal with microaggressions a thousand times a day.

[bettyellen]

60. best post here! "consider what the person you offended must have to put up with day in and day out..

.... in a work environment like the one you describe. Perhaps you weren't ever paying attention to that and this person never felt like you were ever on her side. You worked there 20 years and it felt like family. She probably goes home disgusted every day that she has to walk into a warzone for a paycheck. "


Seriously, THIS.

[LisaL]

69. Sure doesn't sound like offended person would put up with anything.

She reported OP and demanded OP be fired. Why do you think she would put up with somebody else saying something to her?

[bettyellen]

89. The OP said racist remarks were not uncommon - do you have reason to doubt that? Or reason to rhjnk

This person should have just put up with all of it? It may have been the first time a racist remark was directed specifically toward them- or it could be the first time a very unacceptable word was used.
You and I can't know why this time was a deal breaker for the person that reported this. The OP doesn't dispute they were in the wrong here- despite your hinting that there's nothing to see here. The OP disagrees with you

[LisaL]

91. Well, first, OP didn't say racist remarks were not uncommon.

Second, I didn't say offended person should put up with anything ( so please don't put words into my mouth). What I said is that offended person obviously doesn't put up with racially insensitive remarks and reports these types of remarks.

[lapislzi]

97. The student does not know what the student does not know.

I freely admit my ignorance. I've spoken to this person casually about matters pertaining to her appearance ("how long did it take to do those braids?" "That color nail polish looks great on your skin&quot but I don't know if these are offensive things to say. I wouldn't have thought so, but I could also be very, very wrong. If there's a handbook out there, I'd read it. She answered me, civilly, but I cannot know if she was seething inside. And if she was, who am I to judge her? Sometimes I ask questions because I genuinely want to know. Is that offensive? How do we learn if we don't ask questions? I didn't grow up around people of color. My family were casually racist like many working-class families of the 60s and 70s. I knew that had to be wrong, but knowing something is wrong and fixing it are two different things.

Now, let me be clear. Asking questions or complimenting nail polish is a far cry from the insulting remark I made. But sure, it could have been the last straw, even if all the other straws were little ones like nail polish and hairstyles. I don't know if those count as microagressions. If they do, then I'm guilty.

Do we make a distinction between a "racist" remark and a remark that's inappropriate, insensitive, or just plain nobody's business? What I said was racist, no doubt. But is any discussion of skin color, with people of color, out of bounds?

Many on this thread have suggested that I'm looking for sympathy or a pass. Nothing could be further from the truth. I really am trying to learn, because learning is the only way I can demonstrate by my actions that I am committed to changing my ways for the better.

I committed an indefensible act; that much is clear. I would like to not commit any more of these, macro or micro.

I do thank the people who have contributed to this thread.

[luvspeas]

106. Since you put it out there...

no, it is not especially appropriate to ask ANYONE how long it takes to do their hair. Google it if you want to know. Also, if all of your questions, remarks compliments include something about the person's appearance that is related to their difference from you or your experience, it is probably not worth adding the little mention of things like skin color UNLESS you know this person very very well and (IMHO) they have brought it up once in a while.

Finally, stop assuming this person is seething. They probably are going on with their life without giving you a second thought. Again, please stop assuming you are the center of anyone else's universe but your own.

[LisaL]

108. I really think you should stop commenting about this woman's appearance/ hair style.

Even if you think you are making a complement.

[Heddi]

111. "that nail polish looks great on your skin"

what the fuck? Seriously? Why not just say "wow, that color looks great on you?" Or "I really like your hair style today" or "Purple is DEFINITELY your color"

Why make it about her skin? or her unique, ethnic hair and how long THAT hair-do must take Why not just about her, as a person?

I can see why she reported you. I can see why she asked that you be fired. If these are the things that you're able to come up with off the top of your head, things that you pretty well have pegged as being racially insensitive, what about the things you just can't even think about? The things that were offensive that don't even register to you.

She's probably seething that you weren't fired for having a long history of making insensitive and borderline-racially insensitive remarks to and about her. The fact that you called her a FUCKING NEGRO (oh but in the nicest way possible!) and you didn't get your as thrown on the sidewalk probably made her fucking day.

I kind of felt sorry when I thought you said something innocuous. Then I found out what you said. Then you freely admit you've been just so enamoured with this woman's blackness for years.

God help her for having you as an office mate.

[luvspeas]

112. yesyesyes n/t

[lapislzi]

121. I don't know what you mean

And I am not trying to be disingenuous.

I know perfectly well that I said something that absolutely was not innocuous. I may be ignorant and naive about racial matters, but I know that much.

I don't know what you mean when you suggest that I am "enamoured" by a woman's blackness. She is pretty. I didn't think that was a bad thing to notice. I AM curious about differences, and if it is bad to ask about them or even notice them, then I won't do it.

If anything I had said prior had made her feel uncomfortable, and she had told me so, I would have never said another word. I did not realize I was offending. Apparently good intentions count for nothing. OK, fine, I can deal with that. You can be sure I will never utter a social word to her again beyond "good morning."

I am sorry that my ignorance is so offensive. That's why I'm here. I'm trying to fix it.

You honestly think that a fitting punishment for my error would be for me to have been fired? You really think that? You really think people can't be given a chance to learn from their mistakes once they've been shown to be mistakes? I've done everything I can on this thread to demonstrate that I want to be a better, more sensitive and educated person. Should I not be given that chance? If not, why not?

[Heddi]

124. Yes. I do think that calling a black woman a negro, even if meant in a nice way

even if prefaced with "magic" before negro, should be grounds for someone to be fired.

And she's your coworker--not your friend. She gets paid to do her job, not be your science experiment. You can compliment people without referencing their race -- Again, why bring up her skin color with relation to her nail polish? That's basically the equivalent of saying "you're so pretty for a black lady." It truly is.

I mean, how would you feel to be told by your 20 year Key Player Coworker "Gee, those pants really accentuate your fat ass." "Your makeup really makes your face not look as fat it usually does." "That nail polish really hides the cellulite!" "can I touch your jiggly stomach? I've never felt one before. I'm trying to learn!"



And if you're curious, there's this wonderful invention called "Google." You don't touch someone's hair because it looks fluffy, and you don't ask about their ashy skin, and you don't wonder about those crazy braids!!! You want to know--look it up. Don't humiliate your coworker. She's not there to dazzle you and educate you on her exotic nature. She's there to get paid and do her job without being reminded by you that she's black, and to not be called a negro by you.

The more you post, the less sincere you seem. You seem very offended that someone didn't see your joke in calling them a magic negro. You can't see why she just can't get over being complimented on how her nubian skin goes so well with her nail polish

YOU
ARE
CONSTANTLY
SAYING
OFFENSIVE
THINGS
TO
HER

That's why you should be fired. Because you obviously don't care. You want people to feel bad for you and come to your defense. Fuck that. Enough people upthread have soothed your bruised ego. You've got the sads because people are calling you out on your nasty-ass racism.

If you were really TRULY embarassed and ashamed, you would have never posed this OP. You would have done what most of us would do--(well, the most of us who would accidentally call a black woman a negro---I am not part of that group because I don't accidentally or purposefully call people racist names, even in jest): pick our jaw up off the floor, clean off our desk, and start looking for another job. There would have been no surprised at not being fired because we would have done the honorable thing and just quit.

Your posts give me the impression that you just woke up today and WHAMMO it's 2015 and JUST YESTERDAY we decided that we shouldn't call black people Negros and hey! You didn't get the email and WHY IS SHE SO UPSET ANYWAYS

then you go on about how you compliment her skin tone -- THAT IS NOT YOUR JOB. Jesus Christ.

She is there to WORK. Not be gawked at by some white woman who just can't figure out her black co-worker. You want to "learn more," do it on your own fucking time with your own friends who know what a racist you seriously aren't, who have a personal relationship with you, and who are actually accepting of your benign racism.

And, for the record--I'm a 40 year old woman, born and raised in South Carolina. My childhood friend was called "The nigger girl across the street." I was threatened with death if I ever dated "some nigger boy." My life is steeped in racism. It was how I was raised.

And you know what--I have never. Ever. Ever. EVER considered calling a black person a "magic negro." Never. Not to my friends. Certainly not to my coworkers. Not seriously. Not joking. Not. ever.

I educated myself out of the ignorance I was forced to endure. Don't fall back on this "i grew up in a different time.' Well, you may have grown up in a different time but it's 2015 now and you're JUST realizing these things?

Again -- that's why you should have been fired. You admit this isn't your first rodeo with this woman. You are known for making racist comments to her. You should have been fired.

http://thoughtcatalog.com/tarrin-andrews/2014/10/15-stupid-things-white-people-really-need-to-stop-saying-to-black-people/
#1 CAN I TOUCH YOUR HAIR
http://thoughtcatalog.com/madison-moore/2013/08/14-things-you-should-not-say-to-black-people/
#2 IS THAT YOUR REAL HAIR
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/09/10/stuff-white-people-probably-shouldnt-say/
http://mic.com/articles/96144/11-things-white-people-should-stop-saying-to-black-people-immediately
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/11-things-white-people-need-to-realize-about-race_55b0009be4b07af29d576702

[lapislzi]

137. I fucked up badly.

I didn't realize it called for a death sentence. I am truly sorry, but that point seems lost on you. Or, more likely, you consider that worthless coming from me.

We could argue personal history and microagression all night (as we seem to be doing), but we are never going to agree. I cannot explain what I did or did not know, or why, or whether intentions matter. If you educated yourself out of ignorance, why do you think I can't?

If, as you ardently desire, I am fired from my job, I will PM you so you can gloat.

[ecstatic]

142. +1000.nt

[gollygee]

122. Ouch

There's this huge history of oppression around black women's hair. And more recent oppression around black women's fingernails. Those comments probably did not make her feel OK.

It sounds like you mean well but you just have no context to work with and you are as a result being hurtful. Just those two things and the "magic negro" comment would be enough to probably make her feel pretty horrible around you, and I assume you've had other interactions with her as well. You really would get so much out of cultural sensitivity training (as suggested in reply #1) or anti-racism training as I suggested. You should really see if it's offered around you. You can't do better if you don't understand the history and context, and you've got to learn that somewhere. You didn't grow up learning it, and it isn't something you learn by osmosis.

[lapislzi]

130. You are right.

We didn't have any people of color working in our office until a few years ago. None. Zero. Now we have two. (That could be another topic for another day).

And I absolutely agree with you that every single person in our office would benefit from sensitivity training, starting with the CEO, who thinks it's perfectly fine to tell someone that their idea "sucks balls" at a creative meeting (among other things), or to yell "fuck me!" at me when something goes wrong. My standard reply to the latter is, "I'm sorry, that's above my pay grade." But I am not a member of an oppressed class who has suffered a lifetime of harassment, and that is the way I choose to roll with that type of thing. I would never suggest that anyone else should try it.

Thank you for understanding my predicament and my desire to overcome it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

152. "But I am not a member of an oppressed class who has suffered a lifetime of harassment..."

Your behavior in this thread is despicable.

[lapislzi]

157. I don't understand your comment.

My behavior outside this thread was despicable, and I'd like to change that. That's why I'm here. Whatever else I've said in this thread, I've been honest and upfront about the bad behavior, the ignorance, and the work culture that got me to this place--a place that is no good for the person I insulted, and not good for others.

I offer no defense or excuse for being an ignorant bigot, only that I want to stop being one. My desire in starting this thread was to learn from others. DU has a lot of smart people, and I have counted you among them. I'm not flinching from the comments. I'm trying to understand and address them.

If this is an impossible goal, then say so. Is the real answer, "you're so far gone that you don't deserve to hold a job and the only decent thing to do would be to disappear so that woman never has to look at your face again?" How does that fix anything for anyone? The work culture would still be toxic; the woman would likely still face racism in her daily life (just not from me). If the only goal would be to make me disappear, that's accomplished easily enough. For reasons of their own, my superiors decided that was not the decision they wanted to make.

I don't know what else to say (words are cheap anyhow). I sinned. I am sorry. I have expressed as much. I have expressed a willingness to change. If this adds up to despicable behavior then I'm guilty of that too and I will live with your contempt and the contempt of many others here.

[alcibiades_mystery]

159. Your behavior is manipulative and self-justifying

The only purpose for this thread is for others to agree with you that your firing would be inappropriate. You don't care about your co-worker, about "learning," about anything but protecting your own privilege to utter anything at all about people without real consequence.

Indeed, you are spouting the usual racist tripe that there should be no real consequences for white people's racist speech acts. You've rehearsed nearly every trope of this argument: that real consequences for you would be excessive; that you meant no harm; that other people are allowed to say what you are not; that you too are the victim of offensive utterances, but you're not sensitive like those others. The only difference between your posts on this thread and plain old unapologetic racists who spout the same bile is that you have clothed your racist nonsense in this "I'm very sorry, I'm trying to learn" garb that is, at best, a thin sheet of manipulation.

You are out there fishing for other white people to agree that you are actually the victim here, should you have to face any real consequences. At this point, I have serious doubts that this incident ever even occurred. It sounds made up, quite frankly, a little story you're telling in order to get people to agree that facing any consequences for racist speech acts is bad. The fact that you freely use the term "microaggressions" correctly but feign not to know (or is it just a character) that commenting on a black woman's skin tone is workplace inappropriate?

I don't believe a word you're saying, quite frankly. The whole thing smells like a racist sham.

You said upthread that you admire my posts. More manipulation. But I see you, lapislzi. So do some others here, notably Heddi. I see you. Your character is on display here for anyone to see, if only they'd look.

[lapislzi]

160. I think you are mistaken on several points.

The incident did happen as I described it. I did say and do all the other things I said and did prior to this egregious fuck-up. A series of small fuck-ups leading to a gigantic one, if you will. All the result of ignorance and insensitivity on my part.

I never suggested that there should not be any consequences for this serious offense. I would agree that a simple write-up is a mere slap on the wrist, but that's what's happened so far. I'm well aware that I got off too easy. I don't know what other punishment would be "fair" or express any kind of justice in this scenario. Other posters have suggested sensitivity training, and I plan to do this. I hope it helps.

I have never claimed to be a victim. I have asked for zero sympathy. I have asked for advice on how to rectify the situation, on how I can improve myself and my workplace. That was the sole purpose of this thread. Find me a statement where I've been a crybaby victim. Even when my boss called me a pussy. That happened, but I wasn't trying to characterize myself as a victim OR suggest that I'm some kind of tough guy who can take it when others can't. I've tried to characterize my workplace accurately. I've pleaded ignorance about some of my own actions. Only you can judge if that is genuine or not. I'll agree that it's unforgivable, but I'm telling the truth.

To the people who think I should be fired and unemployable for the rest of my life, I don't agree with you. You know nothing about me other than what you've read in this thread. You know nothing about my character outside of this series of incidents. You might think it defines me, but I would say that's rather narrow. Do you think punishing my family is appropriate for something that I alone did? Do you think I deserve to go to prison? Should I resign? I offered to do that, but the CEO said he didn't think that was warranted. Should I resign anyway? Should I have my property confiscated? Does my company deserve to be bankrupted by lawsuits because nothing was done until now? (How would that benefit the 40 others who work here?) Should I be executed? What kind of justice should be meted out here?

I've been on these boards a long time. I'm not false flagger or other troll. I read and learn. Clearly I don't read and learn enough, or I wouldn't make so many mistakes.

I am sorry that we cannot carry on this conversation in a tone of mutual respect. It is one thing to have a disagreement. It is another to be called a liar. Stupid I may be. A liar I am not.

[randys1]

104. Put up with anything? I bet the offended person would put up with men talking about

baseball, or two people talking about hair styles.

But no, she wont put up with racist remarks.

Nor should she.

Ever.

[LisaL]

107. Did I ever say she should?

[randys1]

109. Your comments seem to say to me that you are a little annoyed at her asking

the person to be fired.

[gollygee]

64. Wow

Can't deny the truthfulness of this.

[lapislzi]

71. I do not disagree with anything you have said.

Let me be clear. I don't want to draw any kind of false equivalency, because none exists. And I have considered what life experience may have contributed to this person's perceptions, or her reaction to my remark. I have barely a clue of what she has to deal with daily as a woman of color, and believe me, it surely wasn't my intention to make it worse.

As an overweight, older woman, I know a little about microagression. I hear the fat jokes and the sexist jokes. I've tried to address these over the years, as have others. It was only with the concerted effort of several people that just last year we managed to convince the CEO that the word "retard" is unacceptable (I was part of that group). I've been told to "move my fat ass" or to "stop being such a pussy."

I've re-read my OP and I don't think I'm asking for sympathy or feeling sorry for myself. On the contrary. I'm ashamed of myself and I want to make amends. But, if it's contempt you think I deserve, then I can't fault you for it.

[cabyio]

79. No amends

You shouldn't have to make amends beyond apologizing and meaning it. The fact that this person tried to get you fired over ONE dumb thing coming out of your mouth is just beyond crazy. No one would have a job if everyone got fired or even punished for saying ONE dumb thing.

If you did it all the time that might be a different story, but everyone fucks up. Apology is all that's really needed here.

[Tipperary]

62. What was it that you said?

It is ifficult to give an opinion without knowing.

[lapislzi]

67. See post 66

I think you will be able to figure it out. It embarrasses me even to repeat it. I could barely get the words out when I told my husband.

[RobinA]

63. You Sound Like

part of those Communist reeducation groups. Apologize and move on. Do not try to atone, you will dig yourself in deeper. Stay clear of the person who won't accept your apology. We all say things and we are all offended by things said. Stop beating yourself up and don't say it again.

[roody]

70. You apologized sincerely. Let it go.

If you try to make up for it, it will only remind people that you said it. Let it be forgotten.

[Liberal_in_LA]

85. Agreed

[Oneironaut]

72. Nothing, honestly (and purely imo). Just avoid that person.

Depends what you said, but I'm guessing it was bad. I would just let it go and avoid the person. Trying to get their forgiveness will probably just make it worse. Other than that, just don't mention it again.

Nobody is perfect and things like this happen.

[Juicy_Bellows]

78. With nothing but hint hint and wink wink as far as what you said what the hell are any of us

suppose to weigh in on? I need exact context otherwise I can't say one way or the other.

Not that you need my judo-adjudication skills but without details I can't weigh in.

[Alenne]

80. There is nothing you can do.

While this may be your first racially insensitive remark, it is not her first experience with this. She will go about her job like normal and suck it up. It is what people of color do to make a living. Even if she continues to talk to you, you will always be that person to her.

[lapislzi]

84. I guessed as much.

I wish I had not offered that insult, which to her was likely one among thousands she has received throughout her life. Nobody deserves that.

[LittleBlue]

86. I would look for a new job

That's my advice. Your reprimand will hang over your head and will give them cause to fire you at any time.

[Kang Colby]

90. You are lucky you didn't get fired.

I can envision how this played out..an African American team member did a good job or helped you out; and how did you decide to acknowledge their contribution? You called them a magical n*gro. Wow, that's dumb.

[Warren DeMontague]

98. Also, you know, people make mistakes.

The true measure of our character is if we acknowledge them and try to learn from them.

You can't go back and undo what you said, but there is no point in kicking yourself endlessly over it, as long as you understand what was wrong with your statement. The people here who want to drag you over the coals again- I'm not sure what they think they are accomplishing.

[TuxedoKat]

100. Forgive yourself

It was unfortunate but you apologized. Hopefully in time the person you offended will forgive you too. You mentioned some compliments that you made in the past. I would keep my compliments more general. For example, "I like that nail polish color." Or "I like your hair. ". Don't be hasty and quit your job. Good luck.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

102. I doubt you'll ever make it up to that person.

Last edited Mon Oct 26, 2015, 08:47 PM - Edit history (1)

If they demanded your immediate firing, they're probably not into 'second chances'. If you don't think you can hack the tension forever after, maybe it's time to start shopping your resume to competitors, and become a 'key player' somewhere else.

ETA - If the comments downthread are correct as to the phrase you used, you probably are damn lucky not to have been fired, and probably only haven't been BECAUSE the CEO knows he's been guilty of similar offenses. I'd seriously start shopping that resume, though, and you can hope you do find another spot before you do wind up fired. If you're already at a point where finding another job is going to be tough, think of how much tougher it'll be if you have to say you were fired from your current position, especially after 20 years. And, quite frankly, it sounds like people at that business are reinforcing each other's bigoted behaviour.

[Renew Deal]

113. Find a new job

They might be keeping you until they find a replacement.

Also, stop saying and thinking dumb stuff. That can be a challenge.

[Heddi]

114. So here's why she wanted you to be fired

1) you called her a magic negro -- seriously.
2) you have asked her how long it took to do her hair, that her nail polish looks good for her skin -- that's pretty out of line as well
3) you say that you, as an overweight white woman, have been called fat-ass and told you're acting like a pussy. So if YOU have had to put up with that from other office mates, and we've already known YOU have a history of saying inappropriate race-related things to her, imagine what ELSE she has to put up with from others? They call you a fat ass, what do they call her? They call you a pussy, what do they say about her?

Your workplace is toxic, especially for a racial minority. Yes, you are being abused too, but I imagine she's getting much worse things said to and about her than you are.

Realize that you got off very, very easy. I can't imagine any corporate workplace where that would ever. fucking. stand. Ever.

I would not be surprised if she files a "hostile work environment" lawsuit or EEOC lawsuit.

People should be free to work without being degraded because of their race, their gender, or their physical features. That includes you. But the fact that you are abused where you work does not give you the right to abuse others as you did today, and as you admit you have done in the past.

How can you make up -- thank the stars every day that you're not on your ass, unemployable because you called a woman a negro.

[luvspeas]

116. The whole shitshow needs to be shut down...

Last edited Tue Oct 27, 2015, 07:32 AM - Edit history (1)

indicative of how workers in america think it's totally ok to be treated like chattel for enough money to barely get by.

Edit: I mean the business needs to be shut down.

[lapislzi]

123. If you think that me losing my livelihood is a punishment that fits the crime

There is nothing I can say to dissuade you of that idea. Nothing.

I was told by a lawyer who specialized in these types of cases that people rarely get fired for a first offense. If she had reported me before because I said something inadvertently offensive, then we could talk about history--which, if I accept your argument, there is.

Except there isn't. A history, that is. I may be insensitive and ignorant, but I am never mean-spirited. Whether that "counts" or not, I don't know. Offense, as we know, is in the ear of the beholder. And, apparently I've been guilty for a long time.

But should I be unemployable because I did these wrong things? Am I incapable of redemption? Does the very fact that I am here on this board, answering virtually every charge, not speak to the fact that I am committed to changing my ways? Is that, too, worthless?

I've got my written warning. I've submitted my written apology. I will sign up for sensitivity training (which everyone there, quite frankly, could use). There's nothing more I can do (legally) in this situation except try to demonstrate by my behavior that I can do better. If you think that I do not deserve that chance, then I accept that as your judgment and opinion. But I don't agree.

[Heddi]

126. YES YOU CALLED A WOMAN A NEGRO FOR FUCK'S SAKE

Jesus Christ on a Crutch.

It's 2015. Not 1955. Not 1975.

We don't refer to African Americans as Negros. Not Magic Negros. Not plain old ordinary negros.

We just don't do it.

You obviously do. It was in your mind enough that it just slid right on out.

You weren't overheard in a private conversation that could be misconstrued.

You said it to her face

And now you has a sad that people aren't kissing your ass and telling you what a wonderful person you are.

I imagine the fact that you weren't fired means she's going to go EEOC on your company. THEN you'll be fired. Or as soon as they get your replacement.

And how can you demonstrate that you'll do better? By NOT calling her a Negro? Well that's kind of the baseline we all operate under (Well, most of us). So now you're going to SUPER DUPER NEVER EVER NOT EVEN THINK about calling her a Negro in the future? Not even kind of sort of joking??? NEVER EVER?

gee, what a mensch. You should get an award

[lapislzi]

134. Yes. I see.

I never once in this thread asked anyone to kiss my ass or suggested that I deserved sympathy. I have not tried to defend my behavior in any way, shape, or form. I said it, I own it, I'm ashamed of it. Clearly, that's not enough. I can't prove to you (or to anyone) except over time, that I can change. And, frankly, I'm not beholden to you or your opinions. I will stay at my desk until I'm told to leave. I'll take a sensitivity training course. How can I do better? I have no fucking idea at this point. Well, DUH, I'll never say another social word to her. I have no wish to interact with her ever again except regarding essential business matters, which is probably what should have happened from the beginning.

I wasn't fired because the CEO said, "I'm not firing her." If she makes a lawsuit, I assume it will be answered, but as I understand it, a single written warning is not grounds for firing. If she wants to make a case for history, I'm suppose she can, if she wants to talk about hair and fingernails--clearly inappropriate, now I understand. Not being a legal expert, I have no idea where that would go.

If you think I should never hold another job, that's your right. It is good and fitting and right that I should lose my home? It is good and fitting and right that my entire family should suffer because I did an idiotic thing? Should we go seven generations down the line? Would that be satisfactory?

I do not think that this incident defines me as a human being, however. It defines me as a human being who is deeply flawed and would like to improve. I think you are missing that concept.

[roody]

165. When I was a kid, that was the courteous and proper word for a person of color. nt

[philosslayer]

168. Well times have changed.

n/t

[Heddi]

128. And what about your fucking COWORKER

having to work with your insenstive, racist ass every day? Jesus Christ -- There is not ONE bit of concern for HER from you. None. Just oh gee, I did a bad thing, oh gosh I said a bad thing, oh well I"m going to learn THIS time!!

Fuck that.

This woman has been harassed by you on account of her race repeatedly. You make comments about her hair. You make comments about her skin. You call her an outdated bigoted racial epithet. And yet she still has to look at your fucking face tomorrow morning.

No concern for her, though. NO concern for what you have repeatedly put her through. What other people probably put her through as well.

Nope, just you. Just how YOU can make amends. How YOU can show your'e doing better. What about the woman who is your magic negro? What about the work environment YOU caused her to find herself in?

I mean, let's be clear -- this is all your doing. You created this mess. You made this woman uncomfortable repeatedly. You brought every single bit of this upon yourself.

You don't deserve a medal for being open about this. You're not hero. You're not some great person. By your own words, you have a history of saying racially insensitive things to a woman and the cream on the top was calling her a negro.

And we're supposed to feel bad for *you*?????

Get the fuck out with that bullshit.

[cwydro]

140. Hey Heddi, I agree with most of what you're saying.

However, the OP put this post up all on her own.

I'm shocked at it too, but we can let this be a lesson for others who might just be as clueless.

Can you stop beating up on someone who truly seems to be contrite? What other point would she have to post here?

Have you never done something you wish you hadn't?

I think the OP is completely culturally clueless, and I would love to know what state this happened in. Because in the South we all know each other WAY better than that.

But Heddi, back off a bit ok? The OP is apparently beating herself up quite a bit. We can talk without berating.

Internet bullying is so yesterday, ya know?

Let's back off.

[phylny]

170. Thanks for saying this - I agree and couldn't have said it better. n/t

[lapislzi]

143. Where are you getting this?

I'll say it one more time because it doesn't seem to be getting through to you. I. Am. Not. Asking. For. Sympathy.

Do you think I'm ashamed and embarrassed just because I was reprimanded?

I'm ashamed and embarrassed because I insulted a co-worker whom I respect. I am horrified that she endured such an insult--from me, or from anyone. It is unacceptable and unforgivable (I don't expect to be forgiven and I certainly don't deserve it).

I can't undo that. I can't fix the fact that we work together, unless you get your wish and I am fired, or I kill myself or something. Even if all of that happened, the toothpaste wouldn't be back in the tube. What can be done for her other than me disappearing off the face of the earth? I have no earthly idea, and I don't think my disappearance would fix much of anything except that she wouldn't have to look at me. Do you think she would feel good knowing that she caused me to lose my livelihood? Would that make you feel good?

When people do me wrong, I generally don't wish the worst possible punishment on them. When my ex husband beat me, I didn't have him sent to jail. It didn't seem like a productive thing to pursue.

A productive idea? Maybe let's fix this workplace so that there are clear standards about what is and is not acceptable. Maybe that would do something to make her feel better. She already knows that her complaint was taken seriously and legally appropriate steps were taken to address the situation.

We are not going to see eye to eye here, so I think we will have to stop communicating. I am a terrible person. I admit it. If there was a Hell, I'd be going to it. I should probably speed up the process, since I have no hope of redeeming this situation in any way, shape or form. I would be doing others a favor to die quickly. Is that better?

[melman]

147. This is why a thread like this is a bad idea

all you're going to get is people grandstanding and trying to out-outrage each other.

[pnwmom]

150. Heddi, why not direct your righteous anger toward at least one poster here

who is openly mocking anyone who is offended by racial slurs?

The OP seems to get it now, but not everyone does.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7288996

[npk]

153. Damn this is a great post.

Wish I could rec it.

[trof]

115. Just to be clear, "magic negro" was the term?

This is the most confusing obfuscating thread I've ever read.
And I've never heard the term 'magic negro'.
Yeah, 'negro' is the term us uppah clahss white libruls used back in the 50s and 60s.
Where the hell did THAT come from?
Haven't heard it in decades.
What part of the country are you in?

[luvspeas]

117. I am postulating and the term she used rhymes with bigga...n/t

[Heddi]

118. I specifically asked if she used "nigga" and she said no, that was beyond the pale!!!

but negro..eh...

Post 75, the unedited version, confirmed that it was "magic negro" used after her African American coworker fixed the xerox machine

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7289598

[luvspeas]

120. Whoah! that's actually worse than what I thought!

I was going on this statement:
I didn't use the worst N word. I used a phrase that gets used in a pop culture context, but it was clearly highly inappropriate,

That's like Rush Limbaugh territory.

[trof]

119. Ah.. Many thanks for the clarification.

Yes, white folks can do ethnicity on other white folks, but not on black folks.
Wasps are allowed to do Irish or Polish or Italian or Jewish or Catholic or Evangelical or Hispanic or French or German or English or Cajun or American Southern or New Englanders' patois/slang/accent/jokes/put downs/whatever.

But we do not touch the third rail of...

[notadmblnd]

131. I was in the Dr office the other day

And I heard the receptionist say something to someone behind the door they there would be no apple pie for them. She said it in a way that I knew she was mocking Asians. I asked her if that was her imitation of an Asian accent, she replied yes and I let it go for a moment, I was trying to figure out why she would be using a fake Asian accent in regards to a comment about apple pie, so I let it go for a moment.

When I was finally called into the back, there was a very tall Asian Dr. to which she was making those comments. She also let it be known that she thought it strange that he was so tall and asked me if I had ever seen such a tall Chinese person. I replied "yes". I then said to her, "you know what you said is totally racist? I thought all the bigots left Pontiac years ago."

"Oh, he knows we're just teasing," she replied. To that I replied " Yes, many minorities tolerate bigoted remarks and make self deprecating jokes about their ethnicity, It's a defense mechanism.

After that I let it go. But I do hope she went home that afternoon and gave some thought to what she said and why it was wrong. Maybe next time she will think before making comments of that nature?

[Skittles]

132. was there bad blood between you and that other person before this?

demanding you be fired is a bit much, unless you have a history of such behavior

[ecstatic]

138. It sucks that your co-worker has to put up with you and

much worse, according to you? You seem to have an "I'm sorry, but..." attitude, so don't bother wasting her time with another non-apology. It is what it is.

[lapislzi]

145. I'm sorry if it came across that way.

There was no "I'm sorry, but." It was a straight "I'm sorry; I'll never do anything like that ever again, and if I could find a way to make it up to you, I would."

We all put up with crap at work. Maybe she has put up with more than her share. Probably.

[phylny]

171. It didn't come across that way to me.

In fact, as you know, what you said was wrong, but you wanting to do and be better is the message I got.

[Warpy]

139. We've all had bad jokes fall flat and we've all wished

we could snatch words out of the air after they'd fallen out of our mouths, before anybody else noticed them. If we could communicate in cartoon bubbles, we could be a lot more diplomatic.

When the person who was insulted and complained calms down a little, apologize, thank him/her for taking you to school, and say you'll never do it again.

That's all you can do. A reasonable person will accept the apology and move on, realizing that people who make a habit of using that word are the problem, not somebody who used it once making a joke that missed its mark.

There are just some words that rely heavily on context to be barely acceptable. The "n word" relies on all participants being of African descent and even then educated people think it's tacky. The "b" and "c" words can be used among women but never by men, and rarely in the US. Is it fair? Nah. However, it's the way it is.

[leftyladyfrommo]

144. I agree.

I think some people here are coming down way too hard. It wasn't meant to be insulting. It just came out wrong. I would totally blow that off.


I hear some older people around here still use "negro". They don't mean it to be insulting but it really is. People here say "black". It's just what's accepted . By both blacks and whites.


We all make mistakes. I hate to think of all the things people have said to me over the years that were insulting. I mostly just blow it off. Mostly what I hear are "women are stupid" jokes. It gets really old. There are lots of old fashioned guys here who are misogynist pigs. If I got upset over everything I hear I would be upset all the time.

Would I go to the CEO over it? No. It wouldn't do any good and would probably just make things worse in the long run. That isn't to say I wouldn't get them back for it. In my own way.

[Laffy Kat]

141. Hopefully, people will look at patterns.

We all make mistakes and you have owned yours and apologized in every way possible. Maybe you weren't fired because your boss realized you had no real history of this sort of thing and were earnestly mortified by your own words. Learn and go forward. It's all any of us can do. We are all learning together.

[LostOne4Ever]

146. If you truly want to change start by not making it about you

Last edited Tue Oct 27, 2015, 05:01 AM - Edit history (2)

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Your entire post seems more focused on how horrible YOU felt, how this will negatively impacts you, and later posts seem to more worried about explaining why you did it than thinking about the victim.

If I were you, I would wait till the person is receptive to interacting with you again, apologize and ask them what you can do to make it up to them (not to a bunch of strangers on the internet) and make it very clear that you are willing to quit your job if that is what they want.

And if they do say they want you to quit...quit.

Also consider donating your time and money to organizations to help people of the same race as the person you offended, and read up on the issues they face. It is not enough to feel contrite, educate yourself and do penance for your misdeeds.

And whatever else you do, quit referencing people's skin color/hair texture.[/font]

[JayhawkSD]

155. Nicely put.

Much relief is found by moving outward from self, and toward others.

[egduj]

149. You apologized. Nothing else you can or should do.

[cherokeeprogressive]

151. You apologized. Immediately. In more than one way.

You memorialized the apology by putting it in writing.

Yet... there are those here who would see you suffer financially, your family suffer financially (I admittedly know nothing about your personal life so that could be a completely wrong assumption) and want you ostracized for a slip of the tongue.

You did what needed to be done, and did it immediately. Someone posted above about this person going to the EEOC about a hostile work environment; for one mistake? Please.

Be contrite, but don't beat yourself up about it. It's water (or it should be) under the bridge.

[Skittles]

156. AGREED

yes indeed

[romanic]

158. As some as said you've apologized

Though no offense some of your post does sound a bit "melodramatic" with the whole "atone my sin" tone there. Just accept the fact that what you said was offense and that there consequences. End of.

[lapislzi]

163. Final post on the subject.

To the people who have spoken kindly: thank you.
To the people who have spoken harshly: thank you. It was a strong wake-up call.
To those I have offended, I apologize.

I wish you all well.

Here is what has been done, and what will happen.
I have been issued a written warning. I have issued a written apology.
I have undertaken to sign up for sensitivity training, even though I was not told to do this.
I offered to resign. My offer was declined.
I will speak respectfully to this and every other person in my organization, and only about matters relating to work. I will examine my conscience and think before I speak.
I will work diligently, and hopefully by example, to model better behavior in the workplace.

What may happen.
The offended person may bring a lawsuit against me or my company, based on history. I don't know what could or would happen in either of those scenarios.
The offended person may, over time, forgive my behavior enough so that we can coexist peaceably.

[luvspeas]

166. So why did you even post your confession...

When in the end you have done nothing other than what you were going to do all along.

[philosslayer]

167. Resign

Because no one at the company will from this point forward trust you. They will know what is your heart. And if those words DID come out of your mouth, it is because they are in your heart. No matter how much you try to explain it away. And the whole point of this thread seems to be you trying to gain absolution for what you did.

[cwydro]

169. She offered to resign.

I cannot believe the bullying on this thread.

I've said I don't understand the OP's actions, but neither do I understand the nastiness, the pile-ons, the excoriation of a poster who made an OP perhaps to create a learning moment.

There are so many holier-than-thou posters on this board. They show up on every thread like this one.

I find it sad.

I hope the OP does not take some of the nastier things said here to heart.

Words are real - people, remember that. Just as the OP may have hurt the person in the story relayed here - your words may hurt the OP.

Think folks; think before you cast your stones.