The Rude Pundit - Cops in the Classroom: How Pathetic Are We?

[meegbear]

There is a simple reason that police officers walk the halls of nearly half of all the schools in this country: ignorant fear. In the post-Columbine world, the abject terror of something so heinous occurring caused legislators to shit themselves around the country and demand a tough law enforcement presence to deal with any serious incident.

We didn't do a goddamn thing about the guns. But we sure as shit want the kids to know that they don't have control. So we turned schools into another place where the power of the state is enacted on the bodies of teens, disproportionately non-white, in even the most minor of cases.

Anyone who went to school before the hysteria about "safety" can tell you stories about fights or kids being assholes. Hell, let the Rude Pundit tell you one. In middle school in south Louisiana, in a school that was probably a third African American and the rest were white, with a few stray other non-whites, he had a teacher, Ms. Musgrave, and a black kid in the class, Darren, wasn't listening to her when she told him to stop talking. She confronted him and told him to be quiet. He looked her dead in the eyes and said, "You ugly." Ms. Musgrave, whose son had recently died, burst into tears and ran out of the room. No one laughed. No one was able to take out their goddamn, motherfucking phones and film it. The Rude Pundit told Darren that he was a jerk, and they got into a fight in the classroom that was broken up by a couple of the other kids.

Now here's the end of the story that blows the Rude Pundit's mind every time he thinks about it. He and Darren were sitting outside after the fight, waiting for the principal. Darren told him, "I'm gonna take this. It's my fault. I'm gonna tell them you didn't do nothing." The Rude Pundit asked why he'd do that. Darren said, "Because I get in trouble all the time. You don't. You're gonna do something with your life. I'm gonna take this." And he did. He took blame for it all when, really, the fight was something we shared. He was in and out of trouble after that, but he did graduate from high school a few years down the road.

If this had been today, Darren would have been confronted by a School Resource Officer, who is a cop who sometimes gets off smacking around kids, and probably arrested if he didn't listen. After the fight, both he and the Rude Pundit might have been taken to jail. And for what? For the usual teenage bullshit that every school everywhere has.

Shit, let's not even talk about the fact that pretty much every guy in school carried a pocket knife. It was Louisiana. We might need our knives to skin a squirrel.

The actions of Deputy Ben Field, who slammed around a teenage girl in a classroom in South Carolina before cuffing and arresting her, have no basis in anything we might rationally discuss as belonging in a school. It doesn't matter that, as the sheriff of Richland County said, the girl hit the officer as he was tipping her chair backwards. Who the fuck cares?

The point is that the officer shouldn't have been there in the first place. He shouldn't have been in the school. How many incidents does it take to prove this? Shit, earlier this month, in Texas, a boy was choked by a cop in his school for being "non-compliant" with the demands of the officer. Fuck that officer. Fuck his demands. It's a school. If a teacher or administrator isn't telling the student what to do, then no one else should have any goddamn right to do so. That schools have abdicated their responsibility to teach kids how to behave through regular disciplinary actions is pathetic to the point of absurdity.

We can look at a myriad of things that have made schools into tightly-controlled zones of paranoia and overzealous punishment. We can blame zero tolerance policies that get kids suspended or expelled for having ibuprofen or a birth control pill on campus. We can blame asshole parents who will bitch and threaten to sue if their precious snowflake is in any way treated poorly by a teacher or another student. We can blame politicians who want their constituents to be catfuck crazy with fear about What Might Happen. We can blame the bullshit racism that permeates so much of our policing of black kids.

Essentially, though, what we really are doing is Gitmo-izing the teenagers. We are telling them that they have no rights. They must obey or they can be taken out. They cannot act out like fucking teenagers do. Frankly, the saddest part of the video of the girl in South Carolina is that everyone in that room didn't get up and try to stop the cop (the one girl who protested was also arrested).

That means that they have internalized the oppression. That's their education in a nutshell.

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2015/10/cops-in-classroom-how-pathetic-are-we.html

[tecelote]

1. Children should be allowed to be children.

No child should be cuffed and arrested short of having a gun in school.

Kids do dumb things and they learn from them. What we're teaching kids these days is to be afraid. But, I guess that's the point. Sheep are easier to corral.

[malthaussen]

45. Hell, I brought a pistol to school in '72

Loaded with blanks, I was going to use it in the school play. A classmate ratted me out, the weapon was confiscated until the play started, and that was the end of it. And there are plenty of anecdotes about kids taking shotguns and rifles to school during hunting season. A firearm is not necessarily intended to be used against other persons.

-- Mal

[RedCappedBandit]

2. The last sentence says it all.

Spot on as always.

[retrowire]

6. they've internalized the oppression

that line literally brings tears to my eyes.

damn these oppressors.

[ieoeja]

41. Except it is not entirely correct.

Shortly thereafter one kid got into a fist fight with another cop in the same classroom. See post #40.

Rude is falling into the same trap as gun nuts. Repeatedly we have learned "good guys with guns" were on the scene of mass shootings ... and did nothing. In part, because they are trained on how to use a gun, but not trained in combat. The two are far from the same.

Most people require time to make up their mind before acting. That is what happened with these kids.

[99th_Monkey]

73. So where is Rude incorrect again? I missed that part.

Do you think Cops belong in our schools, being "the enforcers" when kids act up?

[ieoeja]

91. Where he said the kids sat there and did nothing.

They did eventually intervene. It just wasn't shown on the short clip.

No, I do not think cops belong in our schools. Do you think they should be? If so, why?

[99th_Monkey]

92. No cops in classrooms. nope

I think EVERY police dept. needs a rapid-response plan for EVERY school,
nearest to the precincts,

And every school needs administration & teachers trained in how to respond
to a REAL threat i.e. an active shooter (not an 'unruly student'), although
perhaps the latter may be a good idea too.

my point being is the "active shooter" threat is the whole rationale for having
cops in schools in the first place I think, but then once the cops are stationed
there, they have nothing to do but abuse students, which they appear to be
more than willing to do.

[WinkyDink]

106. "Do you think they should be? If so, why?" Reading comprehension? It's quite clear what the previous

poster thinks.

[ieoeja]

109. True. But for some strange reason he asked me. So I thought I would return the favor. n/t

[malaise]

3. The point is that the officer shouldn't have been there in the first place

Most excellent Rudie - nailed it again. Rec

[Thespian2]

4. reacting to modern teenagers...

control them or physically abuse them...

Or failing control, kill them...

Welcome to the USA...

[Pacifist Patriot]

5. Been hitting them out of the park a lot lately, but this is a Grand Slam.

Could not possibly agree more. I honestly believe schools are no more or less dangerous than when I attended in the 70s and 80s. Except perhaps more dangerous because of the atmosphere bred by SROs.

We moved around a lot. I attended WASPy as hell suburban schools, inner city schools where my sister, myself, and two other kids were literally the only white students in the entire grade, small schools, big schools, well-funded schools, poor as shit schools.

The vast majority of days were uneventful no matter where I was. And the few incidents I can recall were dealt with by the teachers and administrators (do recall one janitor pitching in to break up a fight) without police intervention.

Heck, I saw someone pull a knife and the principal just roll his eyes and say, "Name, put that away you look ridiculous." The other kids laughed, he lost face, and put the knife back in his pocket. He was sent to the county school for kids with disciplinary issues, but he wasn't thrown to the ground, handcuffed, and hauled off to jail.

The RP's closing two sentences are depressing as hell!!

[NewJeffCT]

10. I'm guessing

that crime in schools overall is down. However, reporting of crimes is probably up, and now that everybody has a cellphone, they can upload each incident to youtube to be seen around the world. So, it seems like crime is on the increase because 30, 40, 50 years ago, you didn't hear about incidents like this beyond maybe the local newspaper or radio station, and maybe a local news brief on TV.

[Pacifist Patriot]

12. Very good point

[gollygee]

7. We had police in my high school in the 80s

The police officer at our school didn't throw people around though.

[Mariana]

43. In my school too, also in the 80's.

He didn't even wear a uniform, he usually wore jeans and a polo shirt. His gun was concealed. He smiled and joked with the students and was not a threatening presence at all.

[Enthusiast]

54. Maybe they weren't doing roids.

[Thav]

8. It seems like people have lost their ability to "deal with it."

It's just anecdotal, but it appears that we have a generation of kids and young adults who have been brought up in such a way that they've never had to deal with any crap that life throws at you. There's a lot of factors that have reduced these coping skills, but if kids grow up without these skills, then life eats them. It seems that the "I can't deal with this" is starting to permeate into the older adults as well (either that or I'm just getting too damn old too damn fast). So these people are passing the "Deal with It" buck over to someone in authority - who also doesn't have the ability to deal with it. But this authority figure can assault someone and not get in trouble for it, so that's their solution - violence.

Life has a truckload of crap to dump on you - so you better have a good shovel and be ready for it.

[Bluzmann57]

9. The cop says the girl hit him?

Well, that seems to be a natural human reaction; self defense. I mean if someone was manhandling me, I'd fight back too. As would most people. Fuck that cop. Throw his stinkin' ass in jail where it belongs.
One more thing, where was the teacher during all this? He or she should at least be suspended for standing by and doing nothing.

[Chakab]

11. She threw her hands up after he grabbed her by the neck.

People quite frequently get charged with "resisting arrest" or "assaulting a police officer" for having a natural defensive response to being manhandled.

It's the same thing that happened to Sandra Bland. She was charged will assaulting a police officer for flail her arms about when he threw he down and put his knee in her back (conveniently out of the view of the dashcam).

[rladdi]

13. The point is that kids cannot be kids anymore. Most don't have parents that care about them.

The laws for the schools are so strict, esp in SC. that is you sneeze you are disrupting the class and can be expelled. Education has lost it way in the USA. The Conservatives have destroyed education in so many ways. And many subjects cannot be taught in schools anymore. Kids must take a bus to get to school. no more walking. Hell, I walked 2 miles daily to school, in the sunshine, darkness, rain, snow storms. I survived. Now kids don't even get outdoors. It all about computers, games, IPads, cell phones,etc. Kids are now wimps because of their parents and the educational system.
Politicians have destroyed the teaching of kids. Deciding what they can study and learn. Civil, sex education, studies about other nationality are not allow in classrooms.
When will the parents and voters wake up to what is going on.
How long will this nation survive under the stranglehold of the Conservatives?

This officer has 2 had 2 charges against him. one was dismissed and the other will go to court next year. Cops get the best deal. They are always believed, are honest, never lie, so the judge and jury will believe them. Kids LIE, don't tell the truth, story unbelievable, etc. So Kids don't have a chance with our justice system. JUSTICE SYSTEM, ITS THE WORST IN THE USE.

[alcibiades_mystery]

102. "Most (kids) don't have parents that care about them."

What the fuck are you talking about?



SMDH.

[tavernier]

14. We didn't need a cop. We had Miss Spencer.

My blood still runs cold when I remember the look she could give you, and she was seventy.

[malthaussen]

46. My third grade teacher was like that.

She had the perfect name, too: Miss Ironside. Man, if looks could kill, there would have been no survivors in that class. She was only about 40, too, I shudder to think how intimidating she must have been when she got older.

-- Mal

[deafskeptic]

75. I remember my first grade teacher could silence a whole class just by looking at them. n/t

[Valoz]

76. We've taken away too much power from teachers

The kids don't have any respect for them or their authority anymore.

[mountain grammy]

15. In 1963, my 300 year old high school was torn down

to make way for an interstate exchange. The school was enormous, nearly 3000 students, and close to downtown. It was a city school and very diverse.. wealthy white kids from the west side of the city mixed with kids from the projects and everyone in between, but it worked with few altercations. In two years, I only saw the cops once, when two boys got into a knife fight over a girl.
We moved into the new high school in Sept, 1963. It was in a different part of town, more residential, lower middle class, but mostly white. All of a sudden we had cops in the school. I'll never forget walking out of school on that first day and seeing 4 city police cars parked in front of the school. We all thought something terrible had happened. When it became a daily occurrence did we realize the something terrible was outsiders (us) in the neighborhood, and that's when I understood that my integrated city of Hartford, Ct. wasn't that different from backwards, segregated North Carolina, where we had lived just 5 years before.

[Dustlawyer]

16. I had the misfortune to be walking past the trash cans on my way out of the cafeteria

when a string of firecrackers went off in the can next to me. The bell rand and I went to class. Told my favorite teacher about it and class started. Next thing is a knock at the door and I was summoned to the hallway. We had a school administrator who literally looked like a pig and two cops. In front of my teacher (I was her pet) the pig slammed my head into the lockers, then I was cuffed behind my back. The pig grabbed my cuffed wrists and yanked them up to smell my fingers (for gunpowder) causing my head to rake the lockers all the way down by my ankles. My teacher tried to talk to them about me so he had a cop drop me in his office where I sat cuffed tightly for the next hour and a half.

Porky returned and started to talk to me when his wife called and literally dictated a long grocery list to him. He finally realizes I am still there and tells me I can leave. I show him the cuffs and he unlocks me, never apologizes, and says they caught the kid that did it.

I think school officials should be better trained at their jobs and maybe they would not need cops as much. There had to be a better way to deal with the unruly girl. Do we even know why she was being a problem? Maybe the teacher was out of line instead of her?

[WinkyDink]

107. And your anecdote doesn't end with "I won my lawsuit" because?

[Dustlawyer]

108. Maybe because I didn't file one!

Are you a boot strap person?

[WinkyDink]

110. I'm a "Justice" person. But hey---if you thought that those who 'cuffed you should get away with it,

then you did.

[Generic Other]

17. white kid vs. black kid

[niyad]

28. but the sheriff insists that race had NOTHING to do with this.

[Paka]

58. WOW!

That's powerful.

[WillyT]

62. + 1,000,000,000 - Thank You !!!

[vlyons]

18. Police walk the halls because kids have not been properly taught discipline and respect for teachers

Plus the teacher had no skill at dishing out discipline in his own class. Why should kids respect teachers, when our politicians don't value them and demonize them? I had a HS math teacher, Mrs. Edmondson (now deceased), who had the perfect discipline tactic. Whenever a class clown was disruptive, she simply went to the blackboard and started writing pages and pages of homework assignments from the textbook. She would get about 1/4 of the board filled and then turn around and say, "you'd better start working on your homework now, so you'll have less to do tonight. And it will be graded, and go towards your final grade in this class. Plus there will be a test on it tomorrow. If you don't like so much homework, you should persuade your classmate to not be disruptive in class and behave him/herself."

Also that cop could have told the girl that he would return her phone at the end of class. The way he grabbed her around the neck, he's lucky he didn't break it. He could have really hurt her very seriously. What a frightening sight.

[Bok_Tukalo]

19. Just hand the school over to the kids, then

What a bunch of nonsense.

I agree the police officer has no place in that school. But neither does that young woman. She obviously doesn't want to be there and if she has to be there, she wants to run the classroom.

[justiceischeap]

22. So because the young woman didn't want to give up her cell phone, she has no place in that school?

Really?

I just read the account of what happened... I'll paraphrase.

She got a text, looked at her phone for a few seconds and put it back in her bag. The teacher asked for her phone, she said she looked at it for a few seconds. He told her to go to the office, she then asked if he'd please forgive her this transgression. He called the administrator. She repeated her plea... admin called for resource officer, she repeated her plea (I'm guessing she didn't want a ticket). This was how she was disrupting the class. The police officer tells her to leave, she refuses (I'm guessing she doesn't want a ticket and to be arrested), violence ensues.

How is this her wanting to run the classroom? She's asking for a pass so she doesn't get in trouble. Horrible, horrible girl.

There were many days I didn't want to be in school and may have acted inappropriately because of that but nobody slammed me so hard I ended up breaking my arm.

Kids are gonna be kids and sometimes kids do stupid things or they push back at authority... it's what kids are supposed to do.

[silverweb]

74. She also recently lost her mother.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]She's a newly orphaned 16-year-old, currently in a foster home, already traumatized. The teacher was - or should have been - aware of this. The blame for the escalation is mostly his, imho, and the psychopath in uniform dealt the final blow, causing her physical as well as further psychological injury.

There's no empathy anymore. No consideration for where the other person might be coming from. The new rule is instant compliance with orders, whether just or not, or a violent takedown.

It's a militarized police state and it sucks.

[justiceischeap]

88. Not just her mother but her grandmother too

Yeah, I don't get some of these responses. Not only is there no empathy in some schools, there's no empathy from some on DU.

[silverweb]

95. I didn't know about her grandmother.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Poor kid! All of 16 with such significant recent losses - and in a foster home now - but nobody seemed to think some acting out should be expected and dealt with sympathetically. So many seem unable to see anything but the immediate surface of people anymore.

Even if she were getting counseling, which I doubt, a teenager just isn't capable of processing and dealing with that immensity of loss quickly.

I've noticed the lack of empathy from some here, too, and quickness to judge and condemn. We've learned to expect it from the RWNJs, but when even self-identified Democrats respond the same way, I can't help but think it should be no surprise that the country's been heading to hell as fast as it is.

The 1% are loving it, too. We squabble and fight among ourselves over nonsensical divisions they create, magnify, and force-feed en masse through media they control, while they sit back and take more and more away from us.

This insanity has to stop!

[Valoz]

78. She shouldn't have her phone in school

And we shouldn't be encouraging kids to push back at authority.

[justiceischeap]

87. You've obviously forgotten what it's like to be a kid

ALL children that aren't robots push back against authority, which is not a bad thing. It's part of developing their own ideas and their own selves.

And I'd guess that all students that have cell phones, have them in school. Why should she be a special case? Granted, she shouldn't have checked the text but my goodness... now checking texts constitutes getting a broken arm. Go America!

[silverweb]

96. Actually, phones are allowed for a reason.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]It was after one of the mass school shootings some years ago, Columbine, I think. Some smart person recognized that students having their cell phones with them could save lives, so the restriction was lifted.

[niyad]

29. what an utterly despicable, authoritarian-loving comment.

[Bok_Tukalo]

33. Okay, Lord of the Flies

Whatever.

[gollygee]

39. Right, looking at a text = Lord of the Flies. n/t

[Maedhros]

57. I certainly won't be missing anything by putting you on ignore.

/bye.

[niyad]

66. I feel sorry for whatever young people are within your sphere of influence. how very sad for them.

actually, I feel sorry for anyone in your sphere.

[Maedhros]

56. All children have a place in school.

We should abandon at-risk youth because they don't behave?

[Valoz]

79. No, but they should be in a place where they can't disrupt the education of others

[Maedhros]

94. What a vile point of view.

/bye.

[Elmergantry]

71. Agreed

If kids don't want to be there, fine, just don't disrupt the education those who do. Otherwise, out you go. Respect. Discipline. Two things that are not being taught at home.

[sammythecat]

20. The brave girl who protested

what was happening was also arrested. Arrested! She was taken to jail (this is insane) and had to post $1000 bail to go home!

Her mother was justifiably proud of her daughter. http://bcove.me/lc9z3o5d (2, maybe 3 minutes)

I don't get it. It seems teachers have zero authority to use any kind of discipline until it's time to call in an armed thug like this guy.

Irrelevant side note:
I recently found out kids in our local high school are allowed to chew gum. It's fucking everywhere. Every table , desk, chair, carpeted floors. Who the hell thought it'd be a good idea to let kids have gum in school? Why? Anybody know?

[malthaussen]

47. I guess somebody finally brought enough for everybody...

-- Mal

[sammythecat]

103. I see "zero tolerance" has been around

longer than I thought! Thems was the good ol' days. People had discipline and manners or they got gut shot.

I know we're way off topic and I'm raising an old thread, but this scene reminded me of a scene I just recently posted and it's right in the same vein. I have to put it in here because I really think you'll get a charge out of it. Another zero tolerance guy that made me want to stand up and cheer. I can't stand tailgaters either.

[silverweb]

97. She was *very* brave.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]I hope a wise judge throws the case out of court and expunges her arrest record.

[sammythecat]

104. I certainly hope so too.

That she was arrested isn't "too" surprising. That cop was out of control and I guess she's lucky he didn't throw her around the room too. But that later on, someone else, a judge, or a magistrate, or whatever, actually made it so she had to be bailed out of jail, that was just totally unnecessary and completely outrageous.

[silverweb]

105. That's awful.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]So the lesson children learned that day is:

(1) Authority is everything and you are nothing.

(2) Expect violence against your person for any perceived disrespect or disobedience.

(3) Don't risk helping anyone else being abused, because you will be punished similarly.

(4) Communication is not an effective way to resolve conflict.

(5) If you grow up, and if you manage to acquire a position of authority some day, then you, too, may get to punish those beneath you with impunity.

Great lessons our kids are having demonstrated for them in school.

[spanone]

21. it's an insane fucking world we have made for ourselves.

i don't see it getting any better.

[gregcrawford]

23. Slowly boiling the frog

Most have heard that if the temperature of the water in a beaker containing a live frog is raised ever so slowly, the frog never notices that it is being boiled alive.

It is my belief that these obscene abuses of power by psychotic thugs, who should NEVER carry a badge and gun, are part of a much larger pattern.

Travelers have become inured to, and grudgingly accept, the institutionalized abuses and invasions of privacy imposed at airports.

Even though Attorney General Eric Garner ordered the practice to be halted, cops still routinely rob drivers under the auspices of the despicable Civil Forfeiture law, supposedly enacted to target drug dealers, but in reality, used by corrupt police departments to augment their budgets. Cops rob people before they've even been charged with a crime, let alone been convicted of one. And good luck getting your money back.

I could go on until the Intertubes break. But you get the idea.

And the pattern that emerges is one of an ever-warming beaker of water in which we are all immersed. Anyone with the brains of a potted plant knows that the government doesn't wipe its butt without asking its corporate overlords which hand to use. So too, is the government following the edicts of corporatists in gradually eliminating the civil rights of Americans and restricting their ability to travel and communicate without constant oversight.

And just to remind us all what will happen should we even think of stepping out of line, cops routinely beat and murder innocent civilians, even children, because they know that corrupt prosecutors will never charge them. They target people of color most often because the room-temperature IQs upon whom they depend for mindless support are nearly always bigoted wastes of skin who foolishly believe it can't happen to THEM!

But it is happening. With ever-increasing frequency and savagery.

The US already has the largest prison population on the planet. And that is NOT per capita. Corporate-controlled prisons impose contractual obligations on states for mandatory minimums for numbers of prisoners. If any given state hasn't railroaded enough people, they gotta pay a penalty AND pay for the empty beds and maggot-infested food anyway.

Corporate prisons advertise the savings that companies can enjoy by using their captive workforce for piecework, call centers,or what have you. They pay prisoners little or nothing, but charge enormous fees that are still a bargain compared to the costs of employing free citizens. Hell, it's even cheaper than outsourcing the work to Mumbai. Every corporatist has wet dreams about slave labor, and they are lining up to take advantage of this offer.

The dots connect themselves.

So... do we just sit there and boil? I think not.

Have a nice day.

[Dont call me Shirley]

50. Did you mean Eric Holder?

[gregcrawford]

85. I did...

... talk about a Freudian slip! I was fixating on the unspeakable treachery that the Black community has had to endure, and Mr. Garner's murder looms large.

[Dont call me Shirley]

101. Eric Garner....

May his reason for his existence bring healing to many.

[niyad]

68. would you consider making this its own OP so that we can rec it?

[gregcrawford]

86. I will...

... we had some nasty weather last night, so I've got some issues that require my immediate attention, but I will do an OP later this AM.

Thanks!

[gregcrawford]

90. I posted my response as an OP in Good Reads, since that's where I post my cartoons...

... thanks for the suggestion!

[niyad]

93. you are most welcome. k and r'd.

[silverweb]

98. Agreed!

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]I've been calling it "neo-feudalism," the goal being strict class divisions: The "lords," a limited business/professional class (including police and military) - and the rest of us disposable serfs, indentured servants, or slaves to be used for cheap labor and cannon fodder.

[gregcrawford]

99. I've thought of it as feudalism as well...

... cool graphic! Where did you find that?

[silverweb]

100. Google images.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]There are similar ones to choose from. Google "capitalist pyramid."

[librechik]

24. slight correction: a School Resource officer is a cop who failed to get hired as a cop

so he is forced into a less glamorous position with less pay etc. No training, even the very necessary anger management and sensitivity instruction obviously needed in that position. No wonder he's an abuser.


We have these losers in our schools because the Congress and others have spent the last 50 years doing everything they could to destroy our decent public school system and grab all the funding for themselves and their corporate donors. We don't have enough teachers, schoolrooms, supplies to do ANYTHING except duck down and wait til the school day is over. The teacher is too exhausted and overstressed they can't control the overpopulated classroom. So the oligarchs hire private security firms to police the kids, (or open up charter schools) and get their cut of the taxpayers dough.

[niyad]

31. this abusive asshole is a sheriff's deputy.

[malthaussen]

48. *Was* a sheriff's deputy, at least.

I guess some actions are too egregious to be mended by any amount of lipstick on the pig. I'll be interested to see if the crud is prosecuted.

Even if so, it's only one case of many. We are institutionalizing the terrorizing of our own citizens.

-- Mal

[niyad]

69. someone needs to keep an eye on this abusive little prick, see if another force takes him on

before/if there is any prosecution.

[Dont call me Shirley]

51. You hit it exactly where it is, librechic!

[Pacifist Patriot]

53. That's not true.

The SROs in my county are all sheriff's deputies with many years on the job. I am in no way defending this guy (think he should rot), but I do personally know SROs who love their jobs and adore the kids at their schools. And the kids adore them.

I have no idea what the ratio of good apple to bad apple is in the position, but it's not accurate to say they are wannabe cops. They are cops.

[librechik]

59. My post was just my humble opinion

your post was anecdotal.

I think we came out a tie.

[Pacifist Patriot]

84. Not really

It doesn't take much of a search to find that the qualifications for an SRO throughout the country include meeting the requirements of a Certified Police Officer, including completion of a law enforcement academy curriculum approved by their county or state laws. And that it's standard practice for SROs to be employees (officers and deputies) of their community's law enforcement entity rather than employees of the school system or private contractors.

Your humble opinion, particularly in the case that's in question, is all well and good, but it's not an informed one.

[cyberswede]

25. K&R, as usual

The RP nails it again.

[Kelvin Mace]

26. Can we stop with the doublespeak

and call "school resource officers" what they really are:

Pre-prison guards.

[niyad]

27. as usual, rude nailed it! I am so glad that I do not have hostages to fortune in the school

systems, and my heart aches for those who do.

[niyad]

30. a little background on that abusive officer:

. . . .



Fields, who also coaches football at the high school, has prevailed against accusations of excessive force and racial bias before. Trial is set for January in the case of an expelled student who claims Fields targeted blacks and falsely accused him of being a gang member in 2013. In another case, a federal jury sided with Fields after a black couple accused him of excessive force and battery during a noise complaint arrest in 2005. A third lawsuit, dismissed in 2009, involved a woman who accused him of battery and violating her rights during a 2006 arrest.

. . .

http://www.mail.com/news/us/3916190-arrest-girl-who-texted-class-prompts-civil-rights-case.html#.7518-stage-hero1-1

[Javaman]

32. schools are slowly turning into a new arm of the prison system..

armed guards: check.

head counts: check.

lock downs: check.

limited access: check.

frequent contraband searches: check.

more and more are privately owned: check.

but hey, they have teams! Oh wait, so do prisons.

[malthaussen]

49. You forget the cameras in the corridors...

... and the metal detectors at the door. I know, I know, it's so hard to keep up...

-- Mal

[Javaman]

67. Thanks. It's really sad. nt

[Alkene]

77. Slowly?

[Kurska]

34. I'm sorry this is incredibly ignorant.

Last edited Wed Oct 28, 2015, 02:27 PM - Edit history (1)

100% what that cop did was wrong and a massive overeaction. He deserved to be fired. However, if you have never worked in a public school environment than you don't know what you are talking about. Kids get violent with teachers all the time and teachers are almost legally bound to not be allowed to defend themselves in any way. That is why there are so many cops on campus. A kid could take a swing at you and if you even push them hard you can get in serious trouble. These aren't tiny children we are talking about, these could be nearly fully grown 17 year olds.

Cops need to be in highschools to deal with situations like that, when a student gets violent. It is real easy to say "toughen up" when it isn't your skin in the game.

[DrDan]

81. yep - my wife was a HS teacher - now retired

What you describe is exactly what she expressed as well. I am happy there were resource officers in place, for her safety as well as other students and teachers in the school.

We have a lot of experts in school discipline here. Lots of folks with strong opinions. Not many with any real experience in a classroom. Teachers SHOULD NOT be expected to provide the necessary security! Hospitals, airports, many corporations, government buildings all have hired security. Schools should be no different! Particularly with restrictions now put on teachers and administrators.

[Kurska]

83. Exactly, the problem isn't that there is security

In this instance the security acted awfully and was rightfully canned for it. It would be like if people started calling for the fire department to be disbanded, because a firefighter punched someone who was yelling at him while on the job. Obviously the firefighter should be fired, but there still is fires that need to be put out.

Lets not forget that most violence in HS is directed at other students, not teachers. The resource officer exist for the protection of students as well as staff. As awesome as teachers are, they aren't properly trained to handle a situation like a guy wailing on his girlfriend in the hallways. That is the job of a resource officer.

[valerief]

35. That's it. Brainwashing. Internalizing the oppression. That's the whole shebang. nt

[dembotoz]

36. why is rude always correct?

[d_legendary1]

37. When I went to high school in the early 2000's

A police officer once told my American History class that the following things that they could do to us:

1. If students get too "rowdy" when on break, protesting, or wherever there are a lot of students gather the police can say "break it up" in a low tone and then go to town on them. It matters not if the students heard them say it or not.

2. If a student is told to do something and they don't do it, that student is taken into custody for failing to obey a police officer. Good luck making up an excuse even if it was true.

3. A male student can be shot by a female officer and nothing will happen to that female officer. It is much easier for a female officer to explain her fear for her life than a male officer. BTW this was a female officer explaining these rules to us.

4. And of course the obvious reasons why we shouldn't fight the police (helicopters, guns, police dogs). And something about us not having any rights.

Not sure why our teacher felt compelled to bring this officer to our class. We weren't a bad class nor were we troubled students. It horrifies me that this authoritarian mindset that administrators have implemented has only gotten worse. I wonder how many other schools have had situations like this occur that have gone unreported.

[ymetca]

38. "Schools and Prisons...

... Is it any coincidence that they came along at about the same time?"

I forgot who once said that (George Carlin? Robert Anton Wilson?)

The transition from agrarian to industrial (i.e. time clock) culture necessitated the establishment of two systems of public indoctrination and control -- mass education and mass incarceration.

What's the first thing you have to learn? Be on time. Don't be late. Tardiness is the original sin.

And now we are racing to the bottom, leaving every child behind, in our insanely competitive, social-Darwinian, dog-eat-dog dash for the ever-receding brass ring.

Brass rings were commonly pulled to shut the assembly line down when an industrial accident occurred.

Welcome to the machine --Pink Floyd

[ieoeja]

40. What the fuck does Rude mean "didn't get up and try to stop the cop"?!?

&feature=player_embedded


People not trained in policing or combat typically take time to assess a situation like that before they make up their mind to intervene. And when the assailant is an authority, it takes even longer since we have to trust them to decide what is the correct thing most of the times. It took the kids some time to realize this was not one of those times.

I assume they did not arrest this kid or we would have heard. Maybe because of the wild swings by the cop trying to take off the kid's head. Or maybe this cop, once things cooled down, decided the kid has the right to defend himself even though he was the one attacking the kid.

[packman]

42. How many DUer's remember what their parents expected from you

at school. God forbid if you got into trouble at school, you knew what to expect at home.

Really "They cannot act out like fucking teenagers do" - and to what limits can this be done in a classroom? Swearing as a second language - teenagers do that. Or having a phone and texting in class - teenagers do that. Talking to another while class is going on - teenager do that. Fart, burp make other body sounds and laugh at that - teenagers do that. Shit, why bother with a system trying to teach or instill some semblance of a social code? Let the teenagers roam free to express themselves and act out.

The oppression and free expression of their emotions and rebellion against authority figures might stem from sources other than a School Resource Officer. May I suggest parents who just don't give a damn about what their kids do in school and as long as they are out of the house, they are OK with that.

[malthaussen]

44. If I did today as a student the things I did when I was a student...

... I would probably not be alive to write these words. This is no misty-eyed, rose-colored glasses nostalgia, it is simply due to the fact that we are more and more inclined to force our citizens to stand in line, keep their mouths shut, and pull their forelocks in fear and dread whenever the Voice of Authority speaks. And just to add a little spice, we've made it so even those who do willingly comply may be racked up, just because, you know, somebody is having a bad day. Arbitrary violence by authority is a great means of making everyone look over their shoulders. Unless one happens to belong to the privileged classes, of course, in which case he can get away with murder. Or manslaughter, anyway.

-- Mal

[passiveporcupine]

55. This has been going on for some time, but I agree it's progressing

[Demeter]

52. When I went to kindergarten on Halloween I dressed as a cowgirl, with a cap gun in holster

which the teacher took away for the day.

God forbid! What would they do today?

I also remember when the friendly policeman visited the class: he put me in handcuffs to demonstrate, but my hand was so small and bendable, I escaped like Houdini.

This was Detroit, 1959, it must have been!

And I've lived a clean life ever since!

[malthaussen]

60. When I was about six or seven...

... friendly Mr Policeman demonstrated what it was like to be in jail by locking my class into a cell, but I was so skinny and small I was able to wriggle through the bars...

About '62 or '63, not too long after your experience.

-- Mal

[4lbs]

61. My high school in Southern California garnered actual police officers and prison bars on campus

during the summer break between my Junior and Senior years back in 1986.

After leaving for break after my junior year in June 1986, the school was still wide open, no on-campus officers, and a smoking area. During the school year, students were allowed to leave campus temporarily during lunch hour to eat if needed. The smoking area was for the students that were at least 18 and decided to smoke.

Then when I came back three months later to start my senior year in September 1986, I noticed bars all around the school campus, and what appeared to be a permanently parked police cruiser in the front parking area near the main entrance. The smoking area was also removed and smoking was banned at the school.

I later found out that a huge gang fight occurred at the school during the break, and several people were stabbed. It was then the decision was made to put up the bars, have a continual city police presence, and no longer allow students to leave campus during school hours unless accompanied by an adult relative, guardian, or school faculty member.

However, the police on campus were real city police officers. With real guns and nightsticks. Not mall cop types or security guards.

All this was years before Columbine.

[blackspade]

63. This:

"That means that they have internalized the oppression. That's their education in a nutshell."

This is the goal of an authoritarian system. USA, USA!

[whereisjustice]

64. The gun nuts have won, just like the terrorists have won.

Every time homicidal maniacs take advantage of weak laws and a gun saturated society to shoot up a bunch of innocent people, we respond exactly in the way that gun nuts want: insane authoritarian overreaction causing fear and a twisted sense of moral exceptionalism manifested by the millions of people who go out and buy more guns. Gun huggers got EXACTLY what they wanted.

Just like after 9/11, the terrorists got what they wanted - a cowardly overreaction driving us into stupid wars, mass citizen surveillance, restricted civil liberties, fear and panic. The terrorists got EXACTLY what they wanted, more violence and repression of American society.

Our two cowardly political parties are unable to stand up and fight against the emotional reactionism that is slowly but surely turning the US into a full-on fascist police state. They won't do it because they might lose some campaign cash from the very groups creating the chaos confronting us on a daily basis.

American exceptionalism has become another way to say American assholery.

[Mr.Bill]

65. Like it says in the OP,

I noticed first and foremost in the video that the other kids just sat there and watched it.

When I was in school in the 60s, if that cop did that to a girl he would have been lucky to get out of the room alive. And that's not just conjecture. Although we didn't have cops on campus, more than once I saw kids kick the shit out of a teacher who got violent with them first. Sure, they got in lots of trouble, but so did the teacher. One thing is for sure, the teachers didn't get physical very often. The better ones knew how to maintain control in other ways.

[niyad]

70. don't forget that the girl who did film it, at least, and demand that the abusive little prick stop,

was ALSO arrested.

[YOHABLO]

72. There is no excuse for the actions of that officer. And firing him was the right thing to do.

However, the school does have rules, and "children" today know exactly which buttons to push when it comes to authority figures. Many teachers today only have about 50 minutes to teach a lesson. When you have one disruptive child in the class he's/she's robbing the rest of the class from precious learning time. The only option is to send that student to a detention area in the school, sometimes called independent study or special resources center. They have to hire an officer to keep strict control of these students, mainly to show these students that they mean 'business'. From my reading this child had a cell phone and was given instructions about having it out which was against the rules. But the way that it was handled was way out of line. The issue here is THESE OFFICERS need training on how to handle these types of students. It would not hurt to get a professional in to train these people in interpersonal communication skills. Yeah, these kids can really get your blood boiling if you let them. Not all schools have to deal with these types of behavioral issues, they're the lucky ones. But many many public school teachers have to deal with class behavioral interruptions on a daily basis and it is so stressful.

[Facility Inspector]

82. We feared what our parents would do

if we stepped out of line.

When I was in school, I would have never even thought of being disrespectful to ANY grown up, let alone the teacher or an authority figure.

You'd get in a shitpile of trouble at home for stuff like that.

We simply weren't allowed to do whatever we wanted to do.

[Jesus Malverde]

89. Cops in the classroom did not come from columbine.

It was a feature of the DARE program long before that.