NO NO NO NO FUCK THIS NO NO

[NuclearDem]

First Afghanistan and now fucking Syria!

Hey dumbasses, remember that little mess at the VA you still haven't cleaned up? Maybe you finish taking care of the veterans you have now before you make new ones!

God fucking damn it, do we actually matter to any of you?!

[yeoman6987]

1. Who are you referring to? What has you upset? No link and not enough info

[hollysmom]

2. I think they are responding to boots on the ground in Syria.

I would support it more if it was not a war, every time we go somewhere it gets worse.

[TheSarcastinator]

15. how could anyone object to the US sending boots to needy people?

Do you want them all to be barefoot? Put those boots on the ground!!

Oh, wait: you don't mean "boots", you mean real live, actual breathing people who will die. Yeah, fuck that noise.

[Fred Sanders]

23. Boots in the air is sufficient.

[NobodyHere]

33. You can't take and hold ground from the air.

Boots (whether ours or somebody else) are needed.

[grahamhgreen]

115. Why?

[Chemisse]

30. Haha! You are aptly named. n/t

[raindaddy]

59. What about the needy people here?

Child poverty is through the roof. 22 vets commit suicide in the US everyday. Unemployment among minorities, kids dropping out of school. The number of our citizens incarcerated is a national embarrassment. Our roads and bridges are crumbling...

What's wrong with the Saudis? When the last time they sent troops into one of these wars? Why do our leaders continually subject the people in this country to these continuous wars? It's the middle class and poor who end up paying the price.

[area51]

73. +1

Not to mention that people in this country are dying due to treatable diseases but we have no right to health care in the US. And our tax dollars subsidize drug R&D, yet that savings isn't passed on to us.

Plus the Saudis & other Arab countries need to be taking in the Syrian refugees; it would be much easier for them to adjust to another society where they didn't have to learn a new language and culture.

[classykaren]

89. Best Post of the day.

[tecelote]

90. We used to say this but not anymore.

Doctors, Teachers and Engineers will win over the hearts and minds of our enemy faster than bullets.

But, hey, the argument falls apart when you consider... how do we get the oil?

[RKP5637]

94. It's the SOS again, it will be "creeping mission." More and more will be sent. Just how

many F'en years/decades do we need to spend in the Middle East.

This country, the US, is falling apart. Many in the penthouse just don't get what is happening in this country.

No doubt many in the MIC are celebrating this. It will mean $$$$$$$$$$'s to them. We claim we are a peace loving nation, yet my entire life the US has been engaged in wars leaving a path of death and destruction wherever the US tramples in other nations.

[uppityperson]

5. People, special ops, are being sent to Syria

[Logical]

26. It is big news! nt

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. Do you really want an answer to this?

>>>>
God fucking damn it, do we actually matter to any of you?!>>>>

[NuclearDem]

6. Platitudes, platitudes, platitudes, empty promises,

And maybe some free pancakes at IHOP once a year.

[Smarmie Doofus]

14. You ABSOLUTELY matter.

But it's WAAAAy bigger than that.

YOU MATTER SO MUCH IN FACT THAT WE NEED TO KNOW THAT *YOU* KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GETTTNG INTO.

[Punkingal]

4. Exactly!

Another cluster fuck in the making...

[LiberalArkie]

7. This

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/30/1442632/-Obama-administration-to-announce-U-S-will-send-tiny-number-of-special-operations-forces-to-Syria

[jwirr]

22. All wars start with a tiny number.

[Waldorf]

25. You got that right. From what I have read our involvment in Vietnam started with a small group

of "military advisors".

[LiberalArkie]

29. You must be talking about the Viet Nam Conflict. Just a small thing built on lies.

[jwirr]

36. If I remember correctly the number was 60.

[alfredo]

104. The first US death was from the Army Security Agency.

SP4 James T. Davis first casualty of the Vietnam war. Others died before him, but that was pre war. He was gathering intel on the cong.

https://www.nsa.gov/about/cryptologic_heritage/vigilance_park/origins_of_asa.shtml

[jwirr]

108. So the number was actually 1.

[alfredo]

121. 1 too many

[jwirr]

125. Absolutely for a war we got nothing back for. Personally I

think there are few wars that we get anything back from.

[alfredo]

126. Some get folded flags.

[jwirr]

127. And headstones with a flag every memorial day.

[alfredo]

128. Us survivors get bad coffee at the VA, but it's free.

I lucked out, I was stationed on a volcano in East Africa. My secret was volunteering for Nam. They figured I was nuts, so they put me far away from pretty much everything.

[Paka]

43. Exactly!

[RKP5637]

95. Yep, and proven throughout history. I hope I am wrong, but I see this ratcheting up. n/t

[jwirr]

109. I hope that we are wrong also but this aspect of the war is

so intertwined with the rest of it that I do not have much hope.

[morningfog]

8. Obama's eight years: 8 full years of war in Afghanistan.

A re-entry into war in Iraq.

A new front of war in Syria.

Acts of war in Libya, Sudan, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan.

The Obama Doctrine=Bush Lite Doctrine, drone wars of pre-emption.

Targeted, unilateral, assassinations of US citizens abroad.

Guantanamo Bay detention center still open and Obama claims the right to detain indefinitely without charge.

The Nobel Peace Laureate.

[hifiguy]

13. I repeat.

Change, my shiny metal ass.

Meet the new boss!
Same as the old boss!

- Pete Townshend

[Enthusiast]

47. What? Can't you believe in it?

[SammyWinstonJack]

52. Chump change for us freeloaders...NOW EAT YOUR PEAS!!!

[McCamy Taylor]

79. He ran on a platform of more war in Afghanistan.

I think some people were to busy feeling the "Hope" to read the speeches.

[still_one]

83. and Bernie supports Obama in keeping troops in Afghanistan also

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-afghanistan_5623b601e4b08589ef47bdaa

[Jesus Malverde]

81. You forgot the troops to Uganda, Chad, Liberia, etc...nt

[Jim Beard]

9. And what does Russia think about this?

Lets just give Turkey and Northern Iraq to the Kurds and arm them, since they are the only ones that seem to be able to fight over there.

Too many factions and I strongly suspect IS is a creation of Assad.

[bvar22]

10. As soon as someone arms "The Rebels" (whoever they are) with

...shoulder fired, heat seeking missiles (Stingers, or whatever the Russian counterpart is)
it is Game Over.

[Fairgo]

11. Armageddon Bingo

I think the entertainment arm of the war machine could market their industry's wearisome and predictable death cycle better by offering the common man a piece of the action. Code the states and theatres, enumerating the steps in the eternal war dance, and count the number of boots on the ground and dead in the ground. Every week, the master of war ceremonies could just announce the winning combination. The winner gets some of those famous spoils of war, you know, all those empty boots and used guns. This week's lucky numbers are S*1*5*713. Don't forget to buy your ticket! You can't win if you don't play...

[hifiguy]

12. War then

War now

War forever

Profits trump peace.

A-fucking-men.

Change my shiny metal ass.

[RKP5637]

97. That is, the bottom line! Profits trump peace. Zillions are made off of war machines.

As usual, follow the money trail.

[Rex]

16. I'm getting this image in my mind of NO FUCK NO NO FUCK THIS NO NO NO NO!

I agree, this is getting problematic.

[tiredtoo]

17. Let the Saudis fight their own wars. N/T

[dhol82]

53. Damn! I wish they had 'like' buttons on DU

[Awknid]

61. Yes!

[Ghost in the Machine]

75. Why should they, when The House of Saud pumps money into The House of Bush and Poppy doles

it out to all of his war profiteer cronies??

Peace,

Ghost

[Scuba]

76. + Eighty Gazillion

[TransitJohn]

18. Michael Moore's new film

http://wheretoinvadenext.com/
It's playing at the Denver Film Festival next weekend, I think I'll try to go see it.

[MisterP]

19. you get what you vote for

[bvar22]

117. Not really....... not anymore.

We "vote" for whomever the 1% let us vote for.

In the 2008 Presidential Election,
they gave us a choice beween a:

A) a Free Trading, Business Friendly, Wall Street deregulating, low taxes for the RICH, Military Expansionist, Republican,

OR
B) a Free Trading, Business Friendly, Wall Street deregulating, low taxes for the RICH, Military Expansionist, Democrat.

You see.
We never really had any choice.

[MisterP]

118. thousands pretended we had one, at least, and tried to mute any alternative

the warning signs were all there, we were just told to STFU on them

[leftstreet]

123. +1

[pansypoo53219]

20. LEARNING CURVES ARE FOR PUSSIES!

jon stewart told us so.

[Enthusiast]

48. Well it's true. Tough guys don't need no stinkin' learning curve.

The USA must behave like a drunk loudmouth in a cheap Western.

[LittleBlue]

21. To me, you matter. Unfortunately you don't matter to Obama in his CIA wargames

His obsession with Putin overrides any concern for the people who will die in that hopeless country.

We're arming Islamists and sending special forces to assist them in establishing Sharia law. Remember those "moderates" we armed who began murdering children for blasphemy? We didn't learn. We don't want to learn. Because all that matters to this administration is fighting Russia.

Sorry. Not a pretty answer but it is the truth. The US military folks are just pawns in the new (imaginary) Cold War.

I will keep you in my thoughts as you're used and discarded by people who don't give a damn. Take heart! You're finding and creating more enemies to support our military-industrial complex. No enemies, no military spending. It helps the economy! Or something.

[RKP5637]

98. So sad how people are used for MIC $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s.

[Auggie]

24. Agree

[retrowire]

27. BERNIE!!!

[img][/img]

[smirkymonkey]

42. +1000

Eff this shite. Why do I get the feeling we are always going to be at war? Our priorities are so far out of whack it isn't funny. The trillions of dollars that go toward funding the military and these pointless wars could do so much good for so many here at home. God, this makes me so angry!

[still_one]

84. So I guess Bernie's support of Obama's position of keeping troops in Afghanistan must me he thinks

we can afford to take care of our veterans?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-afghanistan_5623b601e4b08589ef47bdaa

[notadmblnd]

28. Syria was on the list from the get go.

the only real question was; will it be Syria or Iran first?

[Tipperary]

31. President Obama promised no more boots on the ground.

Our president lied to us. What else is new?

[PADemD]

32. Syria is a country in the middle of a civil war.

How are our troops supposed to recognize who to fight? Whoever is shooting at you?

[Joe Turner]

34. Seems like the lesson of Vietmam

was quickly forgotten. The monolithic arms industry in this country makes sure we are in a continual state of war.

[bvar22]

120. They picked the WRONG side in Libya.

They were warned that they were helping militant Islamic Rebels fighting under the Black Flag (Al Qaeda), but just had to fuck up another stable country in the Middle East.

[NonMetro]

35. I knew it would happen. I'm cynical that way.

This won't be the end of it, either. We wait with baited breath to hear the reassurances there won't be any more! You know: so we can be reassured!

[Fumesucker]

37. <sigh>

[Enthusiast]

49. That is a good one.

[ctsnowman]

88. Exactly!

[cprise]

38. Expert on TV: "Millennials need to have a GENERATIONAL COMMITTMENT

...to the conflict in the Middle East."

Courtesy of Charlie Rose and BloombergTV.

He claims that millennials agree with this 'commitment' because they are signing up for service. It couldn't have anything to do with not having adequate income.

[blackspade]

65. "GENERATIONAL COMMITTMENT?" Fuck you expert on TV.

What a fucking asshole.

[cprise]

68. Found out he is Retired Admiral William McRaven

The interview will probably appear in the youtube channel in a day or two:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CharlieRose

[blackspade]

72. What a flaming asshole.

[cprise]

87. The media briefly dappled with interviewing anti-war people

following the realization that the Iraq war was a debacle (and the surge in anti-war protests).

After a couple years, it was back to business as usual.

[blackspade]

111. Isn't that the truth.

[aidbo]

124. A clip about Afghanistan from that interview. He calls it a "Generational Fight" *shudder*

"We have always been at war with..."

[cprise]

130. It cuts out before he talks about millennials committing to the fight.

I'll have to digitize and upload it.

[valerief]

39. Nope. We just breed the cannon fodder and pay for the endless wars. nt

[Plucketeer]

112. Lotta FINE-PAYIN' jobs

in the Military Hardware industry - one of the few that still flourishes here! And with an all-volunteer fighting force (fostered by a dearth of jobs here at home), we've got plenty of anxious mercenary fodder as well. If some of them come home missing a few parts, we'll just find ways to cut the costs of caring for them (something I know about first-hand!). AND...... since alot of them do themselves in, there's calculable savings right there. Enough to give the Koch's a tax break! Just plain (or is it plane) good all around.

[grahamhgreen]

40. Amen!

[christx30]

41. What the hell possible

interests does the US have there? I mean, other than getting rid of Assad?
And why is that worth the lives of US service members?

[hifiguy]

58. Selling weapons - to our government in particular

but to anyone with ready cash.

"Profits trump peace" - some shitheel Texas pol

[christx30]

63. At this point, I have no idea why anyone would join the military. n/t

[hifiguy]

64. Desperation for a regular paycheck

is about the only reason I can imagine. And TPTB are gonna make sure there are a lot of desperate poor people in this country for as long into the future as I can see.

[LuvNewcastle]

66. Free college is another reason.

That's the biggest obstacle to us having free university tuition. Nobody will join the military if they do that.

[RKP5637]

99. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s! n/t

[niyad]

44. do we matter? HELL NO.

[That Guy 888]

45. Have to agree with the OP n/t

[paleotn]

46. Want to know what's even scarier?...

....Russia also has boots on the ground. And in the air. And they're actively backing the other side.

[littlewolf]

50. yup .. Vietnam part II …. US vs USSR using proxies . nt

[snappyturtle]

74. You want to know another scary tidbit?

Russia has permission to be in Syria. Syria asked for Russia's help. The U.S. does not have permission.

[NaturalHigh]

51. What NuclearDem said.

No more fucking wars!

[hifiguy]

54. Perusing the rec list

(click on the number) is very interesting. Very.

[beam me up scottie]

55. It sure is.

This should have hundreds of recs.

[hifiguy]

57. The Tiger Beat brigade is nothing

if not consistent.

[rug]

56. Maybe they'll have to move some from Afghanistan now.

What to do, what to do . . . .

[denem]

60. Typical Isolationist Cowardice

Here we have the closest thing to pure fascism since WWII, but like useful idiots, prior to Operation Barbarossa, the song remains the same: What me worry? Someone else's problem. Endless excuses; Comfortably Numb. Well ... if Deash is not worth opposing with force, then neither was the genocide Rwanda, or whatever else killed the cake. Pathetic.

A word of advice: Don't start reading President Truman anytime soon.

[cprise]

70. Speaking of comfortably numb, tell me about Saudi Arabia

or any number of despotic regimes that the US-NATO empire favors.

Oh, and why are the Five Eyes --- all Anglo countries -- privileged to spy on and manipulate everyone else in the West at the highest levels? There is a fascism in that. Its backed by 800+ military bases around the globe and an arms trade volume to the third world that no one else can approach. We are even willing to play both sides of a conflict (defined as a type of genocide).

Unknowingly or not, you're spouting neocon rhetoric. Long-term destabilization and strife AND stoking terrorism against the west is hardly any way to deal with established despots who come down hard on rioters.


Our foreign policy is NOT about democracy and freedom, its about alignment with (integration into) our economic and client-state (banana republic) frameworks.... peace and stability be damned for anyone who dares to buck the empire.

[UTUSN]

62. Note:The VA is not a good example. It has been f**Ked forever & will always be.

[daleanime]

67. No....

but you probably knew that already.

[CarlaJonesChicago]

69. Wtf

Excuse you! First off do you get how and why we are over there to start off? But did they answer for ANY of that crap? No! So wtf are you here asking us? Tony Blair owned up to his part and why can't the Bush Administration do the same? Why o why can't they attempt to help end this b.s.? I don't think we want more people over there! My mom works for the VA and they been fucked up for awhile. I wonder why? No, I don't. I know already! Do you think he just came to that conclusion this morning? How many other people are in this? I mean military people. Why don't you ask the Republican party? Ask Trump, Carson, Chris, Carly, Ted, Marco , Rand, Robbie, Bobby, Ricky, and Mike while you at it!

Do I like that people are going over there? Hell no! But guess what when you do fucked up shit you pay for it one way or another! Stopacting like President Obama was suppose to be Jesus. He is a man that has to make shitty decisions just like others before him! Yes, we dont like this but its happening. So you think you can run this messy ass country who hates everybody then you run and win and see what you do! Hell everyone else is running, with NO EXPERIENCE. You might win.

[Scootaloo]

77. The Republican Party isn't making this decision.

Because - I dunno where you've been for seven years - the republican party does not control the executive branch.

Now somehow, Bill Clinton managed to get us the fuck out of that box of turds Poppy gave him as a housewarming gift in Somalia. Are the people who took over Somalia nice, wonderful men? Absolutely not, but we still got the fuck out of there, and it's good that we did.

The only acceptable answer from the US to Syria is this:

[marym625]

71. 1, 2, 3, what are we fighting for?

I care, little good that does anyone.

I have an idea! Let's vote for another hawk! Warmonger a go go. Can't say anything about Bush Cheney Powell and Wolfowitz being caught with their.... I won't say it here... And the fact Clinton had the emails proving their war crimes for nearly a decade doesn't matter...no press about it. Not a word in congress or the justice department. We need to elect the next warmonger!!!

FUCK THIS! God damn! Sick pieces of shit! Just go kill our children, fuck the people of Syria. Play games with Russia. Who needs Republicans? We've got big money in third way wars!

[McCamy Taylor]

78. Um...we elected the president on a platform of "I'm escalating the war in Afghanistan."

So, take it up with the American voter.

[neverforget]

82. Syria is a whole new war. And we left Iraq but we're back there too.

Afghanistan is falling apart so we can't leave.

"I'm escalating the war in Afghanistan." doesn't absolve President Obama for his choices in Iraq and Syria.

[still_one]

85. Bernie agrees with Obama in keeping troops in Afghanistan

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-afghanistan_5623b601e4b08589ef47bdaa

[Jesus Malverde]

80. Obviously

Not. He apologizes for your being confused.

[still_one]

86. There are about 50 special forces that will be used in coordinating efforts with Kurdish forces. In

addition, Kerry has been meeting with Russia, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia discussing the situation in Syria.

It would be nice to understand the entire situation instead of the typical sky is falling, Obama is bad, etc. etc. etc.

[CJCRANE]

91. Those Kurdish forces are considered to be terrorists by the Turkish govt.

There was an alleged incident recently where the Kurdish forces received an airdrop of weapons, and were bombed shortly after by the Turkish airforce.

[still_one]

93. thanks for the information

[Munificence]

116. Yeah, what a fucked up world

we live in where we help the Kurds and Turks and the Turks blow the shit out of the Kurds.

How long until the Kurds say "fuck this shit" and turn against us?

[Jim Beard]

114. Russias involvement has changed the entire situation.

The US needs the right to join in on the resolution conflicts. Without involvement, we would be left out of the process.

[TheKentuckian]

92. Unbelievable yet unsurprising. Nobel ought to shut down due to ineptitude

[Darb]

96. Temper tantrum much?

I trust Obama to do what he thinks is necessary. It is a mess and if O thinks we need 50, read it, FIFTY special ops guys in the theater then I support it. This mess isn't going away if we pull chocks and go home, it will likely get much worse. We have our role and I trust Barack to do what is in our best interest, irrespective of what tantrums are thrown on the DU.

[The Traveler]

102. What is the necessity?

I'm looking at several global scale issues and a whole raft of important domestic issues and I can't find a one that depends upon the outcome in Syria. So ... what agenda is really being served? Human rights? OK ... but no one has identified a political focus in the Syrian opposition that we can comfortably assume will prove superior in that regard to Assad.

There may be a legitimate purpose to this ... but as a citizen I have a right to know what that purpose is perceived to be. I voted for Obama thrice, proud to say (once in the 2008 primary and in the two general elections) but that doesn't mean he has my blind trust.

50 Special Ops guys you say ... oh, dear. You really haven't seen this movie before, have you?


Trav

[Doctor_J]

100. apparently the president said 8 different times that this wouldn't happen

So he lied...again

I will not vote for another conservative democrat, ever

[paulbibeau]

101. I can't understand how the smartest people in the government can be so short-sighted.

The idea that we can back a couple of militia groups, train some people we like, and bring about a good political situation in a chaotic war - even if you define "good" really, really charitably - is nonsense. We tried this. We're not good at it.

There are SO many ways for us to help ease suffering in Syria without killing Americans.

[alfredo]

103. It has now become a proxy war against Russia.

[DustyJoe]

106. ^^this

It is . simply an ego trip for putin and Obama.
Obama got drubbed for his red line in syria and putin drew a line and went in and is kicking ass which makes the US look bad both militarily and diplomatically.
I do agree with the other vets on this thread, sending in 50 SO types as targets for russia, isis and al queda is a stupid idea.
You know they will get embedded with the 'rebel' forces like the last bunch where the trainees all joined isis or AQ, big difference now is the revels are in russias bombsights so the 50 (right 50 lol) SO troops will be the next batch of tbi/prosthetic needs of the VA.

[alfredo]

122. Did Obama say they will be situated in Syria, or are they going to do in and out raids?

[olegramps]

105. The situation is impossibly complicated. Religion, politics, dictators all scrambled together.

When Bush and his cronies invaded Iraq they opened up Pandora's box. The Shia and Sunni have been at each others throats for 1500 years. The only stable governments have been vicious dictatorships. Mix in tribalism and suppression of women for a perfect storm. We have very little in common with this mix of cultures except sharing the same planet.

[Dont call me Shirley]

107. No, NucDem, we don't matter to any WarMongerOligarch.

[Scootaloo]

110. Where are all the people who wanted war with Syria back in 2013?

Strangely quiet!

[Charlie Brown]

119. presumably that war, if it had happened, would have been airstrikes against Assad

Even then, Obama said he would not send in ground troops.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/obama-in-2013-i-will-not-put-american-boots-on-the-ground-in-syria/

This mission is not against Assad, it's against IS, and it will probably be a lot messier and strategically confusing than the Libya-like air war that was envisioned in 2013.

The fact that the units our forces are advising are almost entirely Kurds could blow up in our face with the friction that exists between Kurds, Arabs, Turks & the entrance of Russian forces has greatly compounded the risk of this intervention.

I can't comprehend how anyone Obama or Hillary listens to believes this is a good idea, or what the definition of "victory' is supposed to mean.

[hedgehog]

113. .

[trillion]

129. If you're following climate change you'll get the idea theres not going to be

An Afghanistan or Syria much longer. Pick your poison, flood, heat, drout or fire. I've been trying to find out if that massive fire that was still burning in a whole lot of Syria 2 months ago was ever put out. I believe nobody was working on it when I read about it last and the war was continuing with the fighters constantly having to move away miles away from the fire.