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PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:26 PM Oct 2015

Muslim truck drivers who refused to deliver beer win $240,000 lawsuit

Last edited Fri Oct 30, 2015, 08:54 PM - Edit history (1)

An Illinois jury awarded $240,000 in damages and back pay to two former truck drivers who claimed religious discrimination when they were fired in 2009 after refusing to make beer deliveries.

A jury was convened to determine damages after US District Court Judge James E. Shadid ruled in favor of Mahad Abass Mohamed and Abdkiarim Hassan Bulshale when Star Transport admitted liability in March. The men, both of whom are Somali-American Muslims, were represented by the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC).

Under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, employers must make accommodations for workers' religious beliefs unless doing so would impose "undue hardship" on the business.

Read the rest at: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2015/1027/Muslim-truck-drivers-refuse-to-deliver-beer-win-240-000-lawsuit

Edited to add...

EEOC press release on the case from May, 2013...
http://eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/release/5-29-13.cfm

DU discussion from September on a similar case:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7145256

69 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Muslim truck drivers who refused to deliver beer win $240,000 lawsuit (Original Post) PoliticAverse Oct 2015 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #1
In addition, Muslims weren't being asked to drink the beer Warpy Oct 2015 #2
Otherwise it is a precedent 1939 Oct 2015 #4
Really. Same principle. SusanCalvin Oct 2015 #48
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #5
Legal or not, companies are going to start to ask prospective new hires Warpy Oct 2015 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #7
I'm not sure it's legal to ask questions about religion SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #25
its legal to ask the prospective employee Mosby Oct 2015 #42
Yep, and if I were an employer I'd start doing that. SusanCalvin Oct 2015 #49
I think this one might squeak by Warpy Oct 2015 #53
Seeing as the company admitted they were in the wrong SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #54
+1000 smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #8
THANK YOU - it's pretty freaking simple Skittles Oct 2015 #59
If the "offended party" weren't a Muslim hifiguy Oct 2015 #68
This is out of control MattBaggins Oct 2015 #69
I hope that it is overturned, also, and I am very pro religious freedom--just don't take the job emsimon33 Oct 2015 #22
Well, Christians chose to go there. Agnosticsherbet Oct 2015 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #9
Let me know how that works. Agnosticsherbet Oct 2015 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #12
Same for my Dudeism hifiguy Oct 2015 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #16
Happy Hot Dog Friday! Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #39
Onward, Golden Apple Corps! (nm) Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #65
Aww, such a cute chaos goddess! hifiguy Oct 2015 #43
I love the costuming! (nm) Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #66
She's almost cute enough hifiguy Oct 2015 #67
Dudeism is not a religion! Dr. Strange Oct 2015 #45
Sorry, man, but I gotta disagree hifiguy Oct 2015 #47
In a rational world, SusanCalvin Oct 2015 #51
I am a raving liberal and I agree--don't take the job! emsimon33 Oct 2015 #21
unbelievable. the job is to DELIVER beer, not to drink it. Islam tradition says KittyWampus Oct 2015 #11
There you go. nt SusanCalvin Oct 2015 #50
How is that a good thing in any way? hifiguy Oct 2015 #13
How could they get ever get hired? Dyedinthewoolliberal Oct 2015 #14
Because the trucking company didn't ask if applicants wouldn't deliver PoliticAverse Oct 2015 #17
hmmm.... Dyedinthewoolliberal Oct 2015 #20
I'm sure they will consider it now Skittles Oct 2015 #56
Good for them. And this is a jury who voted unanimously. closeupready Oct 2015 #18
Idiotic to me. Like idiots no willing to hand out condoms. nt Logical Oct 2015 #24
Not all religious lunacy is created equal apparently MowCowWhoHow III Oct 2015 #19
Will Jewish truck drivers refuse to deliver bacon!!!!! emsimon33 Oct 2015 #23
Actually, an accommodation is often made for observant jews who don't want to work on the sabbath. X_Digger Oct 2015 #26
So? We don't have a 7-day work week. Apples, oranges. WinkyDink Oct 2015 #30
It's a reasonable accommodation-- as was the one that the company in the OP made. X_Digger Oct 2015 #33
That has nothing to do with this case dhol82 Oct 2015 #32
It has everything to do with this case SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #34
Then the company was stupid in what they started dhol82 Oct 2015 #35
They didn't "start" anything SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #37
The problem is the company didn't find it an undue hardship to accommodate the guys before.. X_Digger Oct 2015 #38
I think that is bullshit Marrah_G Oct 2015 #27
The law is a ass---again. (I wish I had had a religion that banned grading student essays!) WinkyDink Oct 2015 #29
EEOC press release from May, 2013 on the case... PoliticAverse Oct 2015 #31
This is stupid HassleCat Oct 2015 #36
ridiculous Skittles Oct 2015 #40
They could have traded routes/loads with someone else SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #46
if hauling beer is one of your job duties you should perform said duty Skittles Oct 2015 #55
The job was delivery of goods SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #57
it's bullshit Skittles Oct 2015 #58
Well, the law disagrees with you SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #60
I don't think it is reasonable not to perform a job duty Skittles Oct 2015 #61
Happily the law disagrees with you n/t SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #62
LOL, I am sure you just LOVE Kim Davis Skittles Oct 2015 #63
And of course you would be wrong n/t SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #64
Absurd. Dawson Leery Oct 2015 #41
There is a huge difference between the two SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #44
Ah, thanks for the clarification. SusanCalvin Oct 2015 #52

Response to PoliticAverse (Original post)

Warpy

(111,109 posts)
2. In addition, Muslims weren't being asked to drink the beer
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:37 PM
Oct 2015

only to drive the truck and help unload cardboard boxes of it. Their hands would never have been sullied and they don't have the right to force their religious proscriptions onto people who aren't of their religion.

I don't agree with the interpretation of Title VII this jury ruled on. I hope it is overturned.

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
48. Really. Same principle.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:40 PM
Oct 2015

If it's part of your job and it's legal, do it.

This is not the same as such things as accommodations for religious holidays. That ruling is flat wrong.

Response to Warpy (Reply #2)

Warpy

(111,109 posts)
6. Legal or not, companies are going to start to ask prospective new hires
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:44 PM
Oct 2015

if their religions will forbid them to do any part of the job.

People with morbid religious scruples are going to find themselves less employable than ex cons.

Response to Warpy (Reply #6)

SickOfTheOnePct

(7,290 posts)
25. I'm not sure it's legal to ask questions about religion
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 08:31 PM
Oct 2015

Unless it's a religious organization that is hiring.

Mosby

(16,249 posts)
42. its legal to ask the prospective employee
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:18 PM
Oct 2015

If there is anything that would prevent them from doing the job as detailed on the job description.

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
49. Yep, and if I were an employer I'd start doing that.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:42 PM
Oct 2015

And I'd get real specific in the job description.

This ruling will cause more problems than it solves.

Warpy

(111,109 posts)
53. I think this one might squeak by
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:54 PM
Oct 2015

since it's a question of whether or not an applicant can do the job--all of it.

SickOfTheOnePct

(7,290 posts)
54. Seeing as the company admitted they were in the wrong
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:56 PM
Oct 2015

and lost the suit, then no, I don't think it would "squeak by".

The law is what it is - if there is a way to accommodate religious beliefs that don't present an undue hardship to the employer, then the employer is required to provide the accommodation.

And there was obviously no undue hardship here, as the company permitted drivers to switch loads previously.

Skittles

(153,103 posts)
59. THANK YOU - it's pretty freaking simple
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 10:55 PM
Oct 2015

before you accept employment MAKE SURE IT FITS WITH YOUR RELIGION

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
68. If the "offended party" weren't a Muslim
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 02:02 AM
Oct 2015

people would unanimously be going ballistic over this. But for some tolerance is most assuredly a one-way street.

Remember Hobby Lobby, you goddam hypocrites? I do.

MattBaggins

(7,897 posts)
69. This is out of control
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 02:29 AM
Oct 2015

As a nurse I could refuse to administer calcium channel blockers claiming they were developed with embryonic tissues.

Refuse to administer certain vaccines that used fetal cells to develop growth mediums.

emsimon33

(3,128 posts)
22. I hope that it is overturned, also, and I am very pro religious freedom--just don't take the job
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 07:56 PM
Oct 2015

This has become just plain silliness. No one is asking pharmacists to take the birth control drugs or morning after pills, or clerk to marry people of the same sex themselves, or drink the liquid that they are delivering. STOP THE NONSENSE!

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
3. Well, Christians chose to go there.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:40 PM
Oct 2015

So pardon me if I laugh at them.



Now, I await the first lawsuit when companies refuse to hire religious people because demanding a religious accommodation places an undue hardship on making profits and companies choose to avoid the problem.

Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #3)

Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #10)

Response to hifiguy (Reply #15)

Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #28)

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
47. Sorry, man, but I gotta disagree
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:39 PM
Oct 2015

The Church of the Latter-Day Dude: http://dudeism.com/

Come join the slowest-growing religion in the world – Dudeism. An ancient philosophy that preaches non-preachiness, practices as little as possible, and above all, uh…lost my train of thought there. Anyway, if you’d like to find peace on earth and goodwill, man, we’ll help you get started. Right after a little nap.

First, you might want to get ordained as a Dudeist priest. There are almost 300,000 worldwide.

emsimon33

(3,128 posts)
21. I am a raving liberal and I agree--don't take the job!
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 07:53 PM
Oct 2015

If your religious beliefs would interfere with your doing the job, then go get another job!!!!!!!!!

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
11. unbelievable. the job is to DELIVER beer, not to drink it. Islam tradition says
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:52 PM
Oct 2015

MUSLIMS can't drink beer.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
13. How is that a good thing in any way?
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:56 PM
Oct 2015

Not one bit different than the fundys who won't fill birth control prescriptions.

HORRIBLE decision and I hope it is overturned on appeal.

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
17. Because the trucking company didn't ask if applicants wouldn't deliver
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 07:02 PM
Oct 2015

shipments containing alcohol? A question which apparently according to the
EEOC and the law would have been improper.

Dyedinthewoolliberal

(15,541 posts)
20. hmmm....
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 07:38 PM
Oct 2015

still seems funny to me. I haven't read the article though to know if this was a general distributor or a beer distributor. See if its a trucking company delivering all kinds of stuff, I could see not giving them this assignment. Kind of like a person who is Jewish taking off Jewish holidays. It just feels like there is a detail missing here somewhere. I suppose I could read the article............

emsimon33

(3,128 posts)
23. Will Jewish truck drivers refuse to deliver bacon!!!!!
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 07:58 PM
Oct 2015

Give me a break!!!!!! There is a war in this country but it is not on Christmas; it is on common sense!

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
26. Actually, an accommodation is often made for observant jews who don't want to work on the sabbath.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 08:37 PM
Oct 2015

This part of the civil rights act has been in place since 1973 or 1974.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
33. It's a reasonable accommodation-- as was the one that the company in the OP made.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 08:52 PM
Oct 2015

Observant jews regularly swap shifts so as to keep from working on Saturday.

The drivers in the EEOC suit didn't work less than other drivers, they just swapped deliveries.

Apples, apples.

dhol82

(9,351 posts)
32. That has nothing to do with this case
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 08:51 PM
Oct 2015

The men were not asked to work on a holy day. They only needed to deliver a caseload of merchandise.

What's the problem?

SickOfTheOnePct

(7,290 posts)
34. It has everything to do with this case
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 08:55 PM
Oct 2015

It's a religious accommodation, which when reasonable, companies are required by law to allow.

The company in this case admitted they were wrong, since they permitted drivers to switch loads all the time, but when these guys wanted to because of what they would be hauling, they fired them.

SickOfTheOnePct

(7,290 posts)
37. They didn't "start" anything
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:03 PM
Oct 2015

This law has been on the books for 50 years - it's part of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

If the trucking company allowed other drivers to switch loads and routes without considering it an undue hardship, why not these guys?

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
38. The problem is the company didn't find it an undue hardship to accommodate the guys before..
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:03 PM
Oct 2015

.. and so claiming later that it was a hardship doesn't hold much water.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
36. This is stupid
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:01 PM
Oct 2015

They didn't have to drink the beer, serve the beer, come in contact with the beer in any way, etc. Can I refuse to deliver Korans because they contain blasphemy? Where is this religious nonsense going to end?

Skittles

(153,103 posts)
40. ridiculous
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:13 PM
Oct 2015

why should anyone be rewarded for refusing to perform their job duties? When they don't work, someone has to do their work for them - it's bullshit.

SickOfTheOnePct

(7,290 posts)
46. They could have traded routes/loads with someone else
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:34 PM
Oct 2015

It's not like they were saying they wouldn't work - they just wouldn't haul beer.

Have you never traded shifts with a co-worker because they had something important they had to do? I know I have.

Skittles

(153,103 posts)
55. if hauling beer is one of your job duties you should perform said duty
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 10:38 PM
Oct 2015

if you don't want to haul beer, find a job where hauling beer is not one of your duties........ever had a job where beer was not involved? I know I have.

SickOfTheOnePct

(7,290 posts)
57. The job was delivery of goods
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 10:50 PM
Oct 2015

Beer was among those goods, but not the only one. If beer was the only product they delivered, I would agree with you 100%.

But if they allowed people to trade hauls/routes for non-religious reasons, which they did, then there is no reason they couldn't allow people to trade hauls/routes for religious reasons.



Skittles

(153,103 posts)
58. it's bullshit
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 10:54 PM
Oct 2015

find a job where you don't have to deliver ANY PRODUCT of which you do not approve

it's fucking NONSENSE

before you accept a job MAKE SURE YOU CAN PERFORM THE DUTIES

SickOfTheOnePct

(7,290 posts)
60. Well, the law disagrees with you
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 10:58 PM
Oct 2015

and I have no problem with that. If it's an easy accommodation that doesn't present an undue hardship to the business, I see no reason not to do it, unless the owner is just trying to be an asshole, which seemed to be the case here.

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
41. Absurd.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:16 PM
Oct 2015

All of those around here who are defending the man should remember you condemned Hobby Lobby for making the same argument regarding birth control.

SickOfTheOnePct

(7,290 posts)
44. There is a huge difference between the two
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:31 PM
Oct 2015

In the Hobby Lobby case, a corporation was demanding that it be able to force the religious beliefs of the owner onto employees in their private lives.

This case is two men asking to switch loads, which the company admitted in court it had allowed other drivers to do. Allowing these guys to do so would have made no difference - the shipments still would have been delivered.

Where I do see this having implications is in businesses that provide services for weddings. A bakery can't say "We refuse to sell wedding cakes to same-sex couples because of our religious beliefs", but an individual baker or decorator may well be able to say "I refuse to bake/decorate the wedding cakes for same-sex couples because of my religious beliefs", and if there is another baker or decorator at the business that can do the work, they'll most likely be covered by the law.

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
52. Ah, thanks for the clarification.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:52 PM
Oct 2015

If they switched loads, and that was commonly done, and it caused no problem for the business, then I reconsider my position stated elsewhere on this thread.

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