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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Starter Apartment Is Nearly Extinct in San Francisco and New York
(Bloomberg) So youre looking for a one-bedroom apartment in San Francisco, and you have about $2,000 a month to spend. You know the citys median rent is more than $4,200 a month, but median means half the apartments cost less. Surely there are larger, more expensive apartments pulling up the midpoint.
Perhaps. But theres a reason Google employees are sleeping in their trucks.
Ninety-one percent of one-bedroom apartments in San Francisco cost more than $2,000 a month. Perhaps more surprising is the number of apartments that occupy the high end of rental rates: In Manhattan, a fifth of one-bedrooms rent for more than $4,000.
Those figures come from a report on Wednesday from Trulia, which pulled data from rental listings on its website. While we already knew these were expensive places to live, this view of the vertiginous rents in San Francisco, New York, and a handful of other cities paints a somewhat more useful picture of housing affordability.
For instance, the median rent for a two-bedroom in Boston costs $145 a month more than a two-bedroom in Washington, D.C. Only 13 percent of Boston two-bedrooms cost less than $2,000 a month, compared with 23 percent in the nations capital. .............................(more)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-28/there-are-hardly-any-one-bedroom-rentals-for-less-than-2-000-in-san-francisco-and-new-york
LiberalArkie
(15,703 posts)OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)Though I will have a little to add to my SS when I retire next year, I also must downsize as I currently live in a 2800 sf house. I cannot afford to live in this area (Denver), so I will re-locate to North Carolina where housing is a lot more reasonable and I maybe can live AND eat.
Retrograde
(10,119 posts)It limits the amount that rent can be increased, but it also limits the availability of housing for new residents. And higher rents mean higher prices for other necessities.
madville
(7,403 posts)I will retire in a rural area, that's where I prefer to live anyway even though I have typically traveled for work or worked in cities.
I still own a good condition 1200 sq ft house on one acre in a rural county that I bought when I was younger, property taxes are $600 a year, insurance is about $550 annually. If I even tried to sell it I would probably only get about $85,000 so I just plan to keep it and retire there within 10 years. I just spend weekends there now and maintain it, work is 120 miles away in a large city.
LiberalArkie
(15,703 posts)work at a new job. Naturally no insurance. I had a new mobile home that I lacked $1500 paying off. I sold a lot of stuff and built me a little 600sqft house that I still live in. Real estate taxes are $68 a year, insurance about $400 a year. I purchased a GE heat pump water heater and it cut my light bill in half. I have change all the lights to LED and that bumped it down some more. With me being single and living in the county, that is were the problem comes up when you are going to have to have something done where you have to have a ride home because of the rules. Logistics are a nightmare for me.
madville
(7,403 posts)Ideally I would like to buy maybe 5-10 acres and build around a 500-600 sq ft one bedroom house or just live in a travel trailer or motor home. Land around here is currently going for around $3,000 to $6,000 an acre.
LiberalArkie
(15,703 posts)Arkansas. I really like my little house. And easy for me to clean even with the dog and cats. I think these big houses that people get are too large for a single person. And the cost to heat and cool them. My highest light bill since I got the new water heater has been $95 and when I had the mobile home it ran over $300 back in 1993.
madville
(7,403 posts)Even on this 1200 sq ft house it's rarely over $100 a month in the summer and runs around $60 in the winter.
We have a community water utility that serves 400 households and is about $25 a month and everyone out here is on their own septic tank system.
I have coworkers that probably spend 3 or 4 times what I do on housing, utilities, and taxes by living in the city where our office is. I honestly don't know how some of them do it, I know some are paycheck to paycheck.
LiberalArkie
(15,703 posts)I think money would be less without all the electronics I have. TV's, printers, 4 computers, lan switches and routers, ad UPS's etc. A total geek home. I have a 8kw propane generator for winter. In fact everything in the house except the range runs on a 30 amp breaker from the generator transfer switch.
I have some friends that did all the big home thing back in 2005 and it hurt them bad. I am glad I lost the mobile home after the accident. Really the best thing for me.
Have a nice night.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)not that i could ever get one anyway even if i wanted. used to live in 800 sq ft home. it was perfect for just me, even a little big. now SO and i have "upgraded" to 1000 sq ft. funny thing is, so many people think it is so small, and now that i am downsizing and getting rid of stuff i no longer use or want, there is much more space here than i used to think. an acquaintance came over and said "nice starter home." grrrr works just fine for us.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)What do you expect from such a conservative bastion such as Frisco?
yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)just saying..
ryan_cats
(2,061 posts)Nooooooo.
Frisco is what us ever so enlightened native Californians call San Francisco.
yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)its called San Francisco. Frisco is in Texas. We are not Texas, we're California.
I've been here longer than your life and those of us in the know, call it Frisco and know it as the hotbed of conservatism.
It was named after, "Francisco Domingo Carlos Andres Sebastián d'Anconia" from Atlas shrugged.
yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)ryan_cats
(2,061 posts)Nothing wrong with home town pride.
Is this the Oakland 49ers?
Must be a glitch in the 'Trix' as I was replying to #27.
yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)moves his team out of town, and says the fans in the City suck, and when he says its greener ($$$$) down in Santa Clara, with better fans, after your parents had season tickets for years, they can go suck a rotten egg. The BAY AREA has two football franchises. The RAIDERS did move to LA but they came back. The owner says he will not move the team again. When you support a team that fights for you, you go with who appreciates you more. I LOVE THE RAIDERS. THE fourty niners should change their name to the SANTA CLARA FOURTY NINERS. They can keep them. I have chosen the Raiders not because they are winning now, but because I have always been a pirate at heart, and they didn't turn THEIR backs on their fans, and give them the finger while they were walking out the door.
ryan_cats
(2,061 posts)Oaklandians said the same things in 1982.
Los Angeleans also said the same things in 1994.
True California natives like the Cowboys, at least Herb Cain thinks so.
yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)Last edited Sun Nov 1, 2015, 06:31 PM - Edit history (3)
NEW YORK JETS today, and go 4 and 3 for the season.
****U P D A T E **** Raiders 21 Jets 6 (Half time)
ryan_cats
(2,061 posts)Ha ha ha, the Jets trounced the Raiders by very cleverly scoring less points and thereby winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqis.
Let's see how well they do against the Harlem Globetrotters when they play in Frisco's 49er stadium conveniently located in Santa Clara.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)seeing as how they're a square root of their former selves.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)great thread!
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)It was just never heard.
yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)I don't care how long someone has lived here, we DON'T CALL IT FRISCO.
http://www.thebolditalic.com/articles/3271-don-t-call-it-frisco-the-history-of-san-francisco-s-nicknames
Excellent article. Even if they ignore the very real possibility of time travel and an alternate reality as how the name really came about.
Loved this:
(Pro tip: If an out-of-town friend calls it Frisco, avoid the soapbox.
San Franciscans have a rep for being uptight jerks about the nickname.
Don't play into the stereotype. They'll eventually notice you never
call it that anyway.)
yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)I saying it as a long time resident. City Pride? Damn straight.
Are you telling me you didn't take one refugee in from the latest crisis?
I thought Friscoan's were known for their compassion?
yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)This city is a tourist town. Its why I can't buy Crab at my local restaurant because its out of season and the tourists can ALWAYS buy crab at fisherman's wharf. Its why I don't ride the cable cars and the tourists do. I have known all my life to leave it for the tourists. I love my city...as I said above..City Pride? damn straight!
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Just curious, do you guys ever call it San Fran? Or is that just a flight attendant/tourist thing?
pangaia
(24,324 posts)I had to say it a few times but when I do it always comes out 'SanfrnSISco'
Whew!
Guess I pass some test or other..
Best sushi east of Japan, from where I just returned after a 10 day trip...
Super orchestra, and so much more...
You are lucky to live there..
yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)next time you come for sushi, go to Japantown to Kushi Tsuru!
pangaia
(24,324 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)I met a waitress who used to work there. She spoke five languages fluently. Japanese, Korean, Mandarin, Cantonese and English. She now works as a translator out at the airport, SFO making twice as much. She used to help me with my homework.
I have a Taiwanese friend now living in Guangzhou who speaks Mandarin, Cantonese, Taiwanese, Hakka and English. He was my translator in Taiwan..Freaks me out.
I have a couple friends from here who MAY have eaten there a few months back....
senseandsensibility
(16,888 posts)or messing with you. That being said, no one who has ever lived in California calls it Frisco. This native Californian needed to chime in on that.
yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)and yes I know he is messing with me.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I've never heard it called Frisco.
shanti
(21,674 posts)3rd gen, 59 years and counting, and the only people I know who call San Francisco "Frisco" are non-natives. That would include my father, a native Washingtonian. I just call it "The City".
yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)Baghdad by the Bay
Fog City (like: Fog City Diner)
San Francisco!
NOLALady
(4,003 posts)I was advised to refer to it as San Francisco or The City. Frisco was a No No.
yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)Anyone who thinks there is a Frisco in California, does not know anything about our state. Imma California girl!!
pnwmom
(108,950 posts)Response to pnwmom (Reply #40)
yuiyoshida This message was self-deleted by its author.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)Frisco is on State Highway 289 and Farm Road 720 about thirty miles north of Dallas in western Collin County. A portion of the community also lies in eastern Denton County. Frisco was originally named Emerson, after Francis Emerson, who owned the farm where the townsite was located. Emerson, a McKinney banker, had promised to place a national bank in the town if it was named after him, but the bank was never established. Because the name Emerson resembled that of Emberson in Lamar County the town was renamed Frisco City, in honor of the St. Louis, San Francisco and Texas Railway Company, popularly known as the Frisco system, when the post office was established in 1902. The town name was later shortened. Frisco was incorporated during the first decade of the twentieth century and augmented by an influx of residents of nearby Erudia and Lebanon, who wanted to take advantage of the railroad line. Originally a retail and shipping point for farmers, Frisco had a number of cotton gins and grain elevators and was the home of a Farmers Co-operative Gin Association. By 1914 the population was estimated at 1,000. The Reinbert Electric Company began service to the community in 1913. In 1924 Texas Power and Light bought out Reinbert and in 1955 constructed a 110,000-kilowatt generating plant just outside of town on State Highway 289. In 1921 the Lone Star Gas Company organized the Farmers Gas Company in order to supply gas to smaller towns, including Frisco.
The population grew steadily, from 618 in 1930 to 1,184 in 1960. In the 1970s, however, it increased rapidly, from 1,845 in 1970 to 3,499 in 1980. This increase was a result of the growth of Dallas and Plano, advancements in production of dairy products, small grains, and cotton, and new aeronautical production plants in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Although still a retail point for farmers, Frisco gradually became a suburb of Dallas. Frisco is home to the Frisco Roughriders, an AA minor league affiliate of the Texas Rangers MLB team, and FC Dallas, a major league soccer team. In 1990 the population was 6,141, and the community had spread into Denton County. In 2000 the population had increased to 33,714.
BIBLIOGRAPHY:
Kathleen E. and Clifton R. St. Clair, eds., Little Towns of Texas (Jacksonville, Texas: Jayroe Graphic Arts, 1982).
J. Lee and Lillian J. Stambaugh, A History of Collin County (Austin: Texas State Historical Association, 1958).
University of Texas Bureau of Business Research, An Economic Survey of Collin County (Austin, 1949).
Not to tear down your assertion, of course. Just some interesting info
yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)kentauros
(29,414 posts)Although, that might have been too confusing back then
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Add my name to that list.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)There is a reason I keep seeing more and more plates around here from California and Colorado
Style Beds Ba 1/2 Ba Sq. Ft. Rent Term Deposit Availability
A1 1 1 0 761 $885-$1425 Per Month $100 Reserve Now
http://image1.apartmentguide.com/imgr/73bfe5e19d998ae5ca5accf9c4e49765/602-
http://image.apartmentguide.com/imgr/ebf43776b7948f3c3ba73f0e3bd7c42b/602-
kimbutgar
(21,027 posts)Parking space in the garage. It had ugly yellow shag carpets. A living room on one end and a bedroom room on the other. 2 large walk in closets and a sit down kitchen. I shutter to think what that apartment is going for now.
When I moved out in 1993 the 9 unit building was sold for $898,000. I begged my boss at the time to buy it. I didn't have enough money myself to buy. That building must be worth at least 6 million now.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Rent controlled and stabilized places oftentimes don't get listed.
Rent control tends to hurt newcomers because it creates shortages of market rate places. But that's a price that may need to be paid.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)Johnny Noshoes
(1,977 posts)I live in a rent stabilized apartment in Queens. I have lived here for 25 years. When I tell people what I pay for rent they can't believe it - LESS than $900 a month. I'm NOT leaving because I could not afford to live in NY WITHOUT rent stabilization. I lost a great paying job 4 years ago when the company I worked for went bust. I make half of what I used to and manage to make it every month.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)for some.
I moved out of a rent-controlled apartment in 1974 and rent-stabilized apartment in 1977.
People thought we were nuts, but I couldn't see myself living in the same place for decades.
We've moved around a lot as jobs and family responsibilities changed. Even left the country a few times.
Different people have different preferences. We did keep our house in Queens, though.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)SF most units are 'rent controlled' but that means limits to raises while you reside there, once the unit is unoccupied the rent can go up as much as the market can bear. No special unlisted magic.
NYC rent control changed greatly and that's part of why people lose where they live and have to leave NYC. The days of an apartment with a low, controlled rent passing from renter to renter are long gone. About 27,000 units in NY are still under old style rent control.
http://www.nycrgb.org/html/resources/faq/rentcontrol.html
Los Angeles, rent control is like SF, tenant protected while living there, rent can raise to any level for the next renter. No secret low cost units.
What city are you thinking of that still has such units in great numbers?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)http://www.nycrgb.org/html/resources/stabilized.html
Rent control program is an anachronism that should go away, on the other hand.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)That's less than what I'd expect a 1BR apartment in DC to go for (It's artificially low because 1BR units don't exist outside of the areas of the city (seemingly-intentionally) left-behind by neglect and ghettoization.)...the problem is that DC has traditionally had construction of larger apartments (over 1000sqft.); finding a 1BR apartment outside of far NE or Wards 7 or 8 (These are all places you do not want to go, let alone live) is like winning the daily pick-3 lottery...1BRs in DC are rarer than 4BR or even 5BR apartments. (Which are themselves uncommon.) The majority of the rentals in the city are 2BR or 3BR or shared houses.
The problem in DC isn't affording a 1BR, it's finding a 1BR apartment.
MichMan
(11,858 posts)Looks like living in Brooklyn instead of Manhattan is pretty reasonable with half renting for < 2K. I imagine the same is true for other boroughs.
I imagine the same also holds for Oakland instead of San Francisco.
As someone who lives in a sparsely populated rural area in Southern Michigan, neither sounds all that particularly reasonable or appealing to me, but to each his or her own.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)"NYC" is a popular way to reference Manhattan. At least, in the recent past. "New York" minus "City" is a reference to anyplace with the 5 boroughs constituting the jurisdiction administered by the New York City government - Manhattan; Brooklyn; Queens; Bronx; and Staten Island.
Now that Brooklyn has become so hot, it probably could be considered "NYC". But for those of us who are old, Brooklyn will always be a Bugs Bunny punchline.
In my neighborhood, century-old 3-flats, middle of the block and a mile-hike from the subway station, are actually selling in less than 90 days for between $2 and $3 million.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)However Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn are the real high rent areas. You can still find deals in the other neighborhoods.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)that way for a reason.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)But rents in Oakland are now shooting through the roof as well. And it is less than half the size of SF, while Brooklyn is nearly twice the size of Manhattan.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)community 35 minutes by train from midtown Manhattan.
When we were first married we lived on the Upper Eastside near Hunter College where we both attended.
Our rent was $195 for a one-room walk-up (220 square feet) four flights up. That apartment now rents for over $2,000.
Since our kids are grown I'm now converting the playroom/family room area of our home into a one-bedroom, 800 square foot apartment with a 12X16 outdoor patio. We have a vibrant downtown area with plenty of restaurants and bars within walking distance.
I'll be asking $1,800 per month which includes all utilities, separate washer/dryer and cable TV. The tenant will even have their own thermostat for heat and A/C.
I think it's reasonable. My 93-year-old father is horrified that I would charge that much.
Every time we entertain the idea of moving back into the city, the expense, the crowds, the inconvenience... jolt us back to reality.
It's a big, beautiful world with plenty of great places to live.
shrike
(3,817 posts)And that utilities and cable are included, and a washer/dyer is available (one of the biggest pains of living in an apartment, for me, was lugging my clothes out to wash) and that there is an outdoor patio, I think it's very reasonable.
My husband does repair work for older folks, and they all get sticker shock when they find out what they have to pay. And he's cheaper than everyone else in the area. I think once you get to a certain age your life is full of sticker shock.
kcr
(15,313 posts)Must be a very nice area.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)and we have a lot of friends and great neighbors.
Actually 800 square feet is the legal limit for an apartment in an owner-occupied home.
And it's only permitted if the homeowner is over 62 years old. I framed out the space after Sandy and it's 796 square feet.
There's a one bedroom attic a few blocks from here that's half the size and you can only stand up straight in the center of the room. It just rented for $1,000 plus utilities.
It's nuts.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)That seems crazy to me. You share a 4BR with three other people.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)this post would make me strongly suspect it.
I was just commenting on this in another form up-thread. DC really doesn't have 1BR apartments. It's all 2BR, 3BR, some 4/5BR, and a lot of shared houses.
Nobody I know ever had a 1BR apartment in DC except the lawyer dating my roommate senior year of college.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I lived in some really shitty Allston group houses there...
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Of course, I am living by myself here, but had a much nicer space in NYC. Huge UWS apartment w/ doormen. My place here is pretty nice too (it's only a studio) but I am paying a lot more than I was in NY and my salary has not gone up so my standard of living has gone down quite a bit.
mnhtnbb
(31,366 posts)for $1600/mo but she can walk to work.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Brookline is pretty nice. A lot of students however, so you can probably find some deals.
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)That's who.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)There's a reason 1BRs make up a very small part of housing stock in most cities.
yuiyoshida
(41,817 posts)cap, but I am not quite living in the lap of luxury either. For me the worst part about living here in the city is the cold fog at night during the summer. In winter its a bit warmer at night, and despite the fact that my place opens right to the garage and the street, Its not bad here. I wish I had more than a space heater, but I have lots of fuzzy blankets to keep my toes warm.
Deadshot
(384 posts)Why are prices so inflated in San Fran? I'd never pay those prices!
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)the communities closer to the campuses of the major software companies have strongly-resisted development to built units closer to work.
I read somewhere that the majority of Google employees would prefer to move/live closer to the Google campus in Mountain View, CA which is more than an hour outside San Francisco. Mountain View though has gone as far as to threaten to issue a full moratorium on the issuing of building permits for new construction to prevent development of their town...they like the rural, wealthy small-town Google has made them. Google instead spends a small fortune to bus their employees from SF to work.
You can repeat this tale for just about every Bay Area and Silicon Valley computing company. It's starting to happen in the Seattle and Portland areas as well, though they are less land-constrained than San Francisco. SF's geographical location is not helping the problem...there is no place to build more housing.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Though I will say that Fremont is pretty affordable.
Retrograde
(10,119 posts)San Mateo county has been filling up along 101, El Camino Real in Palo Alto is full of new apartment/condo buildings, Redwood City has been a construction zone for years...One problem is overseas investors willing to pay high asking prices and let units sit idle.
BTW, Mountain View hasn't been rural since the mid 80s, when the last farms along Charleston were plowed under to build the SGI buildings.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)The east bay, too: I remember when there were farms between Fremont and Hayward.
Deadshot
(384 posts)Those units better come with concierge service and golden toilets.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Maybe it's time for some enterprising person to buy run down hotels, and vacant mansions, refurbish them and turn them into old fashioned boarding houses, where you rent a room and a bathroom for the week or month for the young person employed in their first job so they don't have to sleep in their cars. They could operate a cafeteria too, open to the public, that provides a selection of food at a discounted rate for the residents.
PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)Deadshot
(384 posts)The price of my apartment or not spending $24,000-$48,000/year on a single bedroom apartment?
I'm not kidding about either.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)My kids are NEVER gonna go.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)When I lived in San Francisco in 1969-70 (which I do understand was a completely different time), my three roomies and I rented a three-bedroom, fully restored Victorian in the inner Richmond with hardwood everywhere, formal dining room, fireplace, etc. etc. for $225 a month. It was easy for us with our little clerical salaries.
San Francisco is rapidly losing its "coolness" factor.
Warpy
(111,106 posts)the stratosphere, buying bolt holes in cities all over the world in case things go to hell in their own countries. Which they will.
The major problem is that those clerical salaries have been allowed to fall so far Had the rich not been convinced that we greedy working people were the reason inflation was eating away at their vast fortunes, paychecks would have kept pace with inflation and you'd still have ordinary people able to afford the cities.
The only thing to do now is to say fuckit, leave, and hope you can find a gig in a cheaper part of the country--or resign yourself to some really desperate exurb and 4 hours a day of commuting.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)that I rented by myself. I can't remember how much I paid, but it was affordable.
I only mentioned the house because I'm guessing that these days four young girls working as secretaries probably couldn't manage it. It was a gorgeous place and we had the whole building, not just a flat.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)If you define "San Francisco" as starting up north around Cloverdale, heading east to Stockton and bounded on the south by King City.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)I mean, during the Vietnam War era and the years immediately following.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and a lot of people are struggling, just who is snapling up these 4000 month apts?
they can't all be celebrities and ceos.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)had plans to move to a town near Charlotte.
A three-bedroom apartment in a complex with a pool was renting for under $1,000 per month.
They could have afforded the rent, even on starting salaries, but got cold feet.
I think we've made it too comfortable here.