It's not just Trump: Islamophobia in America is spiraling out of control

[applegrove]

It's not just Trump: Islamophobia in America is spiraling out of control

by Max Fisher at Vox

http://www.vox.com/2015/12/1/9822452/muslim-islamophobia-trump

"SNIP..............


On the Tuesday after the Paris terror attacks, a Virginia civil engineer named Samer Shalaby carried a few poster boards into Spotsylvania County's small, low-ceilinged community forum room to present plans to replace Fredericksburg's aging Islamic center. Shalaby's presentation was meant to formalize his application for a zoning permit — the very dullest sort of dull civic meeting — but as a crowd filed in, filling every seat and standing shoulder to shoulder along the walls, it became clear that they were not there to discuss zoning.

"Nobody wants your evil cult in this town," one of them shouted at Shalaby, pointing an outstretching finger. Many in the crowd clapped and cheered their affirmation.

"And I'll tell you what," he went on, "I will do everything in my power to make sure that this does not happen. Because you are terrorists. Every one of you are terrorists. I don't care what you say. I don't care what you think." He later added, to cheers, "Every Muslim is a terrorist, period. Shut your mouth."

As the crowd grew more hostile, a city official stepped in, first to ask them to calm down and, when they wouldn't, to abruptly cancel the meeting.



...............SNIP"

[politicman]

1. The forum here is a peice of proof these days of the rise of anti-Muslim sentiment..

One need only come to these boards here to see the flood of anti-Muslim comments from so-called progressives after a terrorists act somewhere in the world to see proof of how much Islamophobia is growing in the U.S.

[applegrove]

2. They're paid trolls. Not real democrats. There is a big campaign on. Comments sections in Canada and

US websites are being pulled down in regards to stop certain conservative racist talking points.

[politicman]

4. I suspect they are not...

I tell myself that sometimes as well, but then I look at the continued support that Trump has when he continues his racism and bigotry towards Muslims as a whole and I start to wonder whether those anti-muslims poster on here really are so-called progressives.

Islamophobia is on a steep rise in the U.S and its only logical that it will also show up among so-called progressives as well, especially those that hold all religion in contempt and thus are easily swayed to the Islamophobia bandwagon whenever a terror act is carried out.

Look at Bill Maher as an example of a so-called progressive who wraps up his Islamophobia in the guise of being anti-religion.

[applegrove]

7. Bill Maher has questions about conservative islam. I have the same questions about orthodox religion

of any kind. Maher has problems with all religion which I don't (if folk are walking the walk and not taking a holy book as absolute thousands of years later). He has problems with conservative islam and any crimes they commit in the name of god. I have a problem with any crimes committed for any reason. He's going on a pew poll that perhaps people in non democracies can't really authentically answer because it is not safe to speak your mind. I posted that poll online myself not knowing this. The middle east has multifaceted problems. As do most regions in the world. And most religions. I get a facebook feed that is called my stealthy freedom where Iranian woman post their pictures online sans hijab. And they are brave to do so. Makes me so mad. But to lump Bill Maher into the whole stirred up fear of all muslims in America is not what he is doing. People ask questions about Fundamentalist Christian Churches in the USA all the time, but nobody is telling Americans to be afraid of any and all Christians, fundamentalist ones or not.

[politicman]

8. not exactly...

The problem with Bill Maher is that he feeds into the Islamophobia that is growing in the U.S.

For instance, we all know that there are countries in the world with Islamic governments that are backwards, but instead of criticising these governments, Bill Maher goes a step further and criticises the Islamic religion as though these Islamic governments represent every single person of Muslim faith around the world.

For example, Saudi Arabia forces women to cover in public and executes gay people, etc,, but a Muslim living in the U.S whose wife doesn't cover herself and who has a gay best friend shouldn't have his religion mocked and criticised simply because of the way that the Saudi government practices Islam.

Terrorists interpret the Islamic faith in a way that justifies carrying out terror acts and killing innocents, but a Muslim living in the U.S who doesn't interpret the faith the same way and believes that killing just one innocent person is akin to killing all of mankind shouldn't have his faith mocked and criticised because of some terrorists interpretation of Islam.


Point being that mocking and criticising an entire religion when that religion can be interpreted in different ways by different people only leads to all adherents of that faith being painted under the same brush.

Hence Islamophobia is on the rise, with people accusing any Muslim of being a terrorists etc.

[applegrove]

10. But can you question Islam like I question Catholicism for lack of promoting birth control in places

like Africa where survival of children this generation has gotten much better and women don't want to have such big families lest it cause poverty rather than help the parents survive? Can I question that? I do all the time. All the time. I'm not catholic. The internet is filled with people on the forums and in the comments sections of people stirring and conflating Islam with ISIS. Bill Maher is not. He just wants to criticize Islam for it's worst practices. Because he blames it all on religion. Which he does across the board in that he sees nothing good in any religion. Which is his right but I don't agree with.

[politicman]

16. question by debating it, making derogatory remarks just fuels hatred..

I am all for having a constructive debate about any religion and its practices. And I'm sure you will find untold amounts of people ready to debate their religion and the aspects of it that are considered to be wrong.

Bill Maher doesn't do this, instead he makes statements and arguments about Islam (and other religions) that are criticisms or are derogatory.
For instance, if he disagrees with a certain rule in Islam then there is no harm in saying so, but making derogatory remarks or criticising Islam without giving his viewers an idea of how many other Muslims interpret this rule differently in today's age, isn't constructive, its just adding to the perception that is growing that Muslims all follow the interpretations of the Saudi monarchy or the terrorists and as such are bad people.

And as I said earlier, criticising an entire religion regardless of whether some followers interpret it one way or another just ends up in the followers of that religion all being painted under the same brush, which you see daily now with people considering anyone that practices Islam as a bad person, a terrorist, s woman hater or a gay hater, etc.

[Yorktown]

23. Bill Maher makes lots of good points

The Quran itself is discriminatory against women, gays, unbelievers, etc

Bill Maher says it like it is. Do you know a Muslim country were gays can live freely?

So much for "religion all being painted under the same brush".

[politicman]

30. Bill Maher is helping Islamophobia grow....

Do all Muslims the world over practice everything the Quran demands they do?
Do all Muslims the world over live in Muslim countries where gays cannot live freely?


See when you criticise or denigrate an entire faith, then you end up feeding into the stereotype that all adherents of that faith are backward thinking gay hating women hating death preaching followers.

Thus we have Islamophobia on the rise in the U.S.


Bill Maher doesn't say it like it is, he says it the way he wants to with his bias against religion and Islam in particular.
That feeds into those idiots around the world that will try to push a lady into an oncoming train simply because she wears a head scarf and thus must be one of the bad people that follow that bad faith that keeps getting criticised by people like Maher.

[Yorktown]

32. Islamophobia is a misleading term

Islamophobia is a deceitful term.
Muslimophobia = bad (hostility toward individuals)
Islamophobia = OK (Islam=ideology; phobia=don't like)

You say "Bill Maher (has a) bias against religion and Islam in particular."
What's wrong with that?
Especially in the case of the abrahamic religions with their ultraviolent 'holy' books?

[politicman]

33. ...

As I said earlier, just because someone follows the Muslim faith, does not mean that they are following every rule in the faith.

There are many Muslims I know that drink alcohol even though the religion strictly forbids them to do so. There are many Muslims that have sex outside marriage even thought the religion strictly forbids them to do so. There are many Muslims that are either gay or have gay friends even though its considering one of the worst sins in the religion.

Some Muslims interpret the religion and its Koran as allowing all of the above, whilst some others decide to disregard half of the rules of the religion.

So criticising an entire faith that can be interpreted by different people in different ways or practised by different people in different ways or have rules disregarded so easily only ends up as painting all adherents to the religion under the same brush thus every Muslim must be bad like those damn terrorists and Islamic governments, etc.

That there is how Islamophobia begins and how it rises.

[Yorktown]

34. Again, I do not blame people, I attack ideas and texts

The text of the Quran contains horrible passages. Yet Muslims are required to believe it is the perfect word of some god. That is a terrible contradiction.

The legitimate islamophobia (the dislike of the ideology put forth by the Quran) will find its solution when the people, the believers, find enough courage to treat the Quran as many Christians now do with the Bible, a vague source of inspiration in no way perfect.

I have equal disrespect for both books, Quran and Bible, but the current mainstream idea among Muslims that the Quran is perfect is extremely dangerous. Unless one approves of slavery, death for basphemy and of chopping the hands of thieves.

[politicman]

39. ideas and texts can be interpreted in different ways by different people...

Yes Muslim's believe the Koran is the perfect word of God, but even though they believe that, massive amounts of Muslims still disregard many of those words because life is much more fun to live without so many rules etc.

Take drinking alcohol, or sex before marriage or any untold number of sins that massive amounts of Muslim commit every day, because they choose to disregard certain rules even though they know they are the word of God.
Each person is responsible for his own deeds and actions so each person chooses how strictly they want to follow the religion, and whether or not they want to have too many sins to pay for in the after life.

Point being that even though there are things in the Koran that were more appropriate in the climate of 1400 years ago, many many Muslims recognise this and have adapted their interpretation of the Koran to suit today's way of life.

So attacking an entire faith or attacking its holy book which can be interpreted or disregarded by each individual Muslim is painting anyone that holds that religion or holy book dear all under the same brush.

Thus like I said, you get people associating bad things to every person that identifies with Islam even though not every believes, interprets or practices those bad things being criticised.

[Yorktown]

42. Funny: you try to justify a text by the liberties believers take with it

Besides being a moral inconsistency (after all, that damn book is perfect or not, no halfway to perfection), you are committing bid'ah.
Abd Allah ibn `Umar said: "Every innovation is misguidance, even if the people see it as something good.

It is not for you or anyone to interpret the holy book: it must be applied literally. The Quran condones slavery, the Quran is the perfect word of god, so slavery is very OK.

Contesting the sentence above is bid'ah, therefore blasphemy against the Quran, which is punishable by death. Opposing slavery is Bid'ah Say'iah, "a new thing" which "opposes the Qur’an and Sunnah". Catch 22.

[politicman]

44. not so fast.....

But to apply the holy book literally is an extremely difficult task because it is written in a way that is open to interpretation by different people.

An example is the difference between Shiite and Sunni sects.
Which interpretation is the right one? How can anyone know which sect is applying the Koran literally and which sect has taken liberties with the interpretation of the text.

See, if Muslims themselves cannot agree on the interpretation of the texts, then who gets to decide which sect is guilty of blasphemy and deserves death.
There is no way to do so except what is happening now which is through violence and force.

But peaceful Muslims living all around the world don't pay attention to what you wrote, because peaceful Muslims know that they don't have the authority to decide who is blaspheming and who isn't all they can do is live their lives with their own interpretations of the text and hope they are the right one when the after life comes.


(BTW, thanks for this fun debate we are having here and on the other thread)

[Yorktown]

45. Like I mentioned on the other thread, the violent medinan verses take precedence

Other than that, Islam, like Judaism and Christianity, is stuck with a dilemma:
some verses are clearly impossible to apply if one is not a psychopath.

The Torah requires to stone to death he who works on the Sabbath. Hard to apply.
But it's in the Torah.

That's where the chamans (rabbis, imams, etc) come in with excuses and exemptions.
Piles of nonsense to make the original layer of nonsense livable.

And yes, the discussion is fun.

Now, be honest, the perfect, eternal word of god states in black and white it's OK to own slaves. What do you think god had in mind when giving that eternal piece of advice? And what makes theologically ISIS wrong when they apply it and have a price list for slaves?

[politicman]

46. i'm starting it here too lol ^^#%#$*$&%^

It's not just some verses that deal with violence that are hard to apply, there are many other verses that are not violent that are hard to apply in todays age.
Many verses in all holy books were more appropriate for a time long ago when they came down and the world was a very different place than it is now.

But that's the beauty of religion, everyone gets to choose for themselves what verses they are willing to apply and what verses they are not, and then deal with whatever repercussions come in the after life.

I myself and a Muslim yet I drink, I have sex outside marriage, I do commit many sins on a daily basis, I don't follow every word in the Koran literally, and I know that I will have to deal with this when I die, but not for one second do I believe that I am less of a Muslim than some terrorist fanatic that wants to convince the world that selling Yazidis girls is his right under the religion.

And on that last point, Muslims like me look at ISIS and its possible sale of women which as much disgust as you do, we look at it as a he sin, but they own their sin the way that I own my sins.

(just a note, I am not excusing ISIS in any way, but sometimes I am also sceptical about the stories that come out regarding things going on in Syria such as the sale of yazidi women. Yes that is a flyer but it can easily have been drawn up and come from anyway as a psy ops program.
I'm not defending ISIS, I have just grown sceptical of news coming out of that region after we all saw that Kuwaiti girl testify in front of Congress that Iraqi soldiers were throwing babies out of their incubators and it turned out to be one massive orchestrated lie.
I have no idea what news is real and what is fake out of the region anymore)

[Yorktown]

47. Let me highlight two of your sentences

Many verses in all holy books were more appropriate for a time long ago when they came down and the world was a very different place than it is now.

It's nonsense. It's one or the other:
• either, as it claims, the Quran is the perfect, eternal word of god, and then slavery is OK
• or slavery is not OK -as I suspect- and then the Quran is not a perfect book.
(based on lots of other indicators, I do think the Quran is eons away from being perfect)

But that's the beauty of religion, everyone gets to choose for themselves what verses they are willing to apply and what verses they are not, and then deal with whatever repercussions come in the after life.

Again, it's nonsense and one or the other:
• either holy book X (T, B or Q) makes sense, is perfect and must be applied to the letter
• or the holy books (T, B or Q) are just piles of nonsense and anyone can do as they wish

I too can find my way in life using a book, any book. Let's say Harry Potter. I follow the example of the characters which are good, and shun that of Voldemort. And when the text isn't explicit, I do what I wanted to do anyway and try to latch it to any passage vaguely related. Ameen becomes Harrmeen or Hermioneen, et voila, I have a religion. Yay.

[politicman]

49. Yes anyone can mae their own religion as long as they are willing to believe it

Your last point is totally correct, anyone can do as you say and claim they have a religion.
But that's because religion is nothing more than a belief. Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, and any other religion is nothing but a belief. No one denies this, it is a fact that a religion is nothing but a belief.

I think that being a Muslim will get me into heaven when I die, but I have no proof to convince you of this so it is nothing more than a belief that I hold, one that I hold strongly but albeit a belief, a faith in a higher power.

And as religions are simply just beliefs and having faith in something that cannot ever be proved to others, then it naturally follows that each individual with pick and choose which rules and which interpretations he/she thinks are appropriate to get to the afterlife.


How do you think religions have split off into having different sects within them. A Sunni can have a certain interpretation of the Koran that he believes will get him into heaven, and a Shiite can have a totally different interpretation of the Koran that he think will get him into heaven.

I being a Sunni complete believe that the Sunni interpretation is correct and a Shiite completely believes that his interpretation is correct, but only one of us can be correct while the other is committing blasphemy.

This even extends to the same sect, there are many different interpretations within the same sect, but everyone has a core belief that their interpretation is correct and they are following the words of God, etc.

[Yorktown]

51. Your answer is part of why religions are nuts.

I think that being a Muslim will get me into heaven when I die

is the mirror image of 'Jesus saves'.

If there is a benevolent 'god',
why would he/she/it offer an afterlife only to those who correctly believed in he/she/it.

It's nuts. Not to mention the god of the quran is a sadist in hell:

Indeed, those who disbelieved in Our Signs, soon We will burn them (in) a Fire. Every time are roasted their skins We will change their skins for other (than) that, so that they may the punishment. Indeed, Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

[politicman]

52. Religions are equivalent of following societies rules, except religion requires following gods rules

But that's how religions work, the reward in the after life is for keeping the faith in this world.

It may not make sense to you at all, but for those of us that believe that our lives here on earth have a meaning, it makes plenty of sense.

We believe that all us humans are on this earth as a test to see who will keep the faith and follow Gods rules, and those that do will be rewarded in the after life and those that don't will be punished.
It sounds sadist to you but to people who have a belief in a religion it makes all the sense in the world.

Its funny how that works.

[Yorktown]

56. OK, let me put it this way to you, a believer

I disbelieve.

Completely.

I think there is no Allah and that muhamad was a misguided person.

Do you think I should roast in hell with skin growing back so that I can feel pain eternally?

[RichGirl]

38. The Bible is...

...discriminatory against women, gays, unbelievers, etc . In the Old Testament God is committing random mass murder all the time. If he isn't killing people he's instructing people to kill each other. Like killing people for working on Sunday, killing gays...etc. Read it yourself. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are the desert religions and they all came from Abraham.

The difference between U.S. and Middle East is the culture...not religion which are very much the same. They take the Quran seriously where we don't follow the Bible literally.

For the record...I believe in God but think the Bible is an old interpretation based primarily on life thousands of years ago. The only thing of value, in my opinion, are the teachings of Jesus which don't line up with the violence and craziness of the Old testament.

[Fast Walker 52]

17. he's actually tempered his rhetoric somewhat recently

but yeah, he has fed into the raging Islamophobia. Overall, I think the right does pretty well pushing it by themselves.

I do agree with him that common tenets in the Islamic world about women's right and homophobia are unacceptable.

The sooner we evolve away from religions, the better.

[Yorktown]

27. The sooner we evolve away from religions, the better.

But two bastions resist, kicking and screaming:

Evangelicals/Baptists and Muslims.

Other than that, Christianity is vanishing away in Europe and Judaism outside Israel is becoming a cultural rather than religious thing.

[Fast Walker 52]

54. yep.... that evolution can't happen soon enough, imo

[Yorktown]

55. Amen, brother

[KittyWampus]

5. Oh no they are not. I've been here since close to day one.

For some it's antipathy to Muslims specifically.

For others it's antipathy toward anyone who follows any religion.

[Matrosov]

57. The forum here is a piece of proof many progressives wilfully have their heads in the sand

We hate homophobia, misogyny, and religious violence.

Therefore, we criticize it in Christianity and Judaism, and DU is fine with that. However, when we criticize it in Islam, there's no shortage of DUers tripping over themselves to dismiss the critic as a hateful bigot, or my favorite, a 'racist.'

People were eager to explain San Bernardino as 'workplace violence,' as if the average worker keeps +1,000 rounds of ammo, several guns, tactical vests, and IEDs, out in his car, just in case someone at work steals his parking spot.

People were eager counter with scum like Dear, Roof, and even McVeigh, as examples of Christian terrorism, even though neither Roof nor McVeigh killed in the name of God; one is a racist piece of crap, the other hated the federal government.

There is plenty of senseless violence all around the world, but let's not pretend Islamic culture doesn't have a problem right now with people committing violence against gays, women, and innocent people in general, and let's not pretend Christianity and Judaism has the same level of problem right now with people committing violence in the name of God.

[mwrguy]

6. Islamophobia is going to be one of our greatest challenges as a nation in the next decades

[Fast Walker 52]

19. Decades??? I hope not.

What's bizarre is how it's gotten much worse in the most recent years, long after 9/11. I'm sure a major part of it is the right's fear of Obama. I hope maybe it will die down when he's out of office.

[mwrguy]

22. As the demographic gets larger and larger

White Christians will get more and more scared and lash out.

Eventually it will be stamped out as those people become a smaller minority.

[flamingdem]

9. The repukes found a winner with Isis fear

and they will ride this into some wins with the neanderthal public.

[Fast Walker 52]

20. they are the fucking worst, aren't they?

Is there any negative emotion they don't capitalize on? Or is there any positive emotion they actually tap into?

[ladjf]

11. The Republican's dream. It adds up to votes for them. nt

[mountain grammy]

12. This is very troubling and scary.

All of us must be diligent in defending our Muslim neighbors from this abuse.

[loyalsister]

43. A Muslim friend told me he is afraid to go to the Mosque

He is afraid that his neighbor, boss, landlord, etc might see him and make assumptions. It is extremely painful for him and his wife. To me, it is absolutely horrifying!

[Yorktown]

13. Again, the confusion induced by that misleading term, 'Islamophobia'

The examples of appalling behavior given above are inexcusable.

But the term islamophobia remains a red herring: Islam=ideology, phobia=dislike.

It's OK to dislike religions, especially when their effects have been so recently demonstrated.

(Colorado Springs, San Bernardino)

[applegrove]

14. But there are not christianaphobians who want to stop christians from pursuing their faith and stop

them from coming to the USA even though the radical Christians can be deadly.

[Yorktown]

21. And?

Sadly there still are lots of believers in the Bible nmumbo jumbo in the US. So yes, whenever xenophobia will manifest itself, it will pick on foreigners identified by their religion. The dark side of human nature, to be fought and condemned.

But it should not exonerate Islam, the ideology, from robust criticism in its theory and practice.

[applegrove]

25. Yes. But you cannot equate any person with terrorism because of their religion.

[Yorktown]

29. Unless terrorists have the sacred texts on their side

Muslim journalists have written it: ISIS is ideologically justified in scripture.

Hence the problem.

There are other, sane, ways to read the Quran because it is a self-contradictory book.

But the fundamental flaw of the Quran (like the OT) is that literal reading can justify violence.

[MellowDem]

24. Actually, there are plenty of them...

In many Islamic countries, Christians are discriminated against as official policy. But no one calls this behavior Christianityophobia because it's not, it's just bigotry.

[applegrove]

26. Yes. And that should be criticized.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

15. I do not think Trump is anti-Muslim. He is a pragmatist not an

ideologue. He is talking in the most basic terms. Enemy. Wants to kill us. Who are they? Muslim. If we get Muslims out. No enemy. No one hurting us.

It could be Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, whatever religion - he doesn't care.

He is linking with the vast ignorant majority who never think or investigate or research anything in depth.

It is almost cavemanism.

[RichGirl]

18. Republicans hate...period.

Islam is just a handy target at the moment. A diversion from hating blacks, Mexicans, Gays, Liberals, etc. The ever expanding list...that starts with subconscious self-hatred. Odd that most consider themselves Christian. They claim to believe in God yet are so fearful and cowardly that they need an arsenal of automatic weapons to feel safe. I really think it's a form of mental illness.

[MellowDem]

28. That is such a terrible word to describe it...

Yes, bigotry against Muslims is increasing, and conservatives will milk it for all its worth, but Islamophobia is such a terrible name for it. Islam is explicitly bigoted against a number of groups, especially homosexuals, and borrowing from "homophobia" seems so wrong when Islam itself is so homophobic.

[applegrove]

31. I think it is a good word. I'm sure Obama thought long and hard about which word to use as he wrote

his speech yesterday. Fear of Islam is a great word in actual fact.

[Yorktown]

35. Disagree: the word islamophobia is a ploy to try to disqualify criticism of the religion

homophobia is obviously bad because it is a dislike of people, gays.

islamophobia as a term has been invented to try to disqualify it as homophobia should be.

islamophobia is the dislike of a bad ideology, which is perfectly acceptable.

What is unacceptable is muslimophobia, the blanket dislike for individuals.

[applegrove]

36. No. Islamaphobia, as a word, works for me. You can question

a religion without being afraid of it or all its followers. ISIL is not Islam.

[Yorktown]

37. Well, I am a Christianityphobe and an Islamophobe

But I do not hate or dislike Christians or Muslims.

I simply strongly disagree with their ideologies, insofar as they know them

(which is not often)

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

53. The no true Scotsman fallacy again

Sorry, but ISIL can cite passages to back themselves up. Hence the problem with trying to rationalize with idiots who believe in fake sky poppys.

Fuck all religion. It is ridiculous rational people have to suffer this shit.

[Behind the Aegis]

48. A ploy? I don't think so.

While "Muslimphobia" might be more accurate, the word is "Islamophobia." There are those, as you have seen, who conflate criticism of Islam with hatred of Muslims. However, the word is much like anti-Semitism; the term describes hate of Jews, not Judaism. Of course, there are those who try to claim it really means "discrimination against Semites." The irony is "anti-Semitism" was created as a right-wing's PC term for Judenhass (Jew hate). They have a problem with anyone trying to claim Jews can be victims of hate and like to change the subject. I have read many of your posts and it is very obvious you take issue with the religion, not the people. Therefore, you aren't Islamophobic, but I am hoping you will read this post and understand trying to "re-work" the word to something else of claim it is a ploy will only hurt your arguments in the future.

As for your conversation above, please look at this thread and see how Jews are the "the most protected species in the U.S." It certainly speaks to some issues of "goose and gander" moments.

[Yorktown]

50. Thanks for having understood what I try to say

And I am well aware my contestation of the word islamophobia "will hurt (my) arguments in the future". And yet, I stil will keep on contesting that word. Because I really, really dislike religions, Islam included. Islam-phobia really covers it, along with Christianity-phobia.

[MellowDem]

40. Obama gets lots of things wrong...

and religious privilege is great, so great in fact that Islamophobia only exists as a term because of it. I mean, Obama invited Rick Warren to the inauguration, he is comfortable with religious inspired bigotry, as are most Americans, it's all quite normal to most. And part of it is that he's a spokesman, so he has to be genial to the powers that be, and Islam is one of the privileged, powerful religions in the world.

Plenty of ex-Muslims criticizing Islam and just plain legitimate criticism of Islam from any corner is referred to as Islamophobic now, because it's a wonderful way to make discussion of a religion tough to do, which is tough enough anyways with all the privilege religion has in our society.

Many people have legitimate fears of Islam, which would make it not a phobia, and which is why it is a terrible word.

Can you name some other bigoted belief systems that should be given a designation of phobia to apply to those who don't like it?

[applegrove]

41. No. But I'm not a wordsmith by any stretch. I agree with criticising fundamentalism of any ilk.

Last edited Tue Dec 8, 2015, 04:24 AM - Edit history (3)

ISIS are not fundamentalist, they are a terror organization. They are genocidal. That is the real estate staked out by Obama. Genocide was, at one point a thousand years ago, acceptable in a religion. It is not any more.

The word phobia is important because people are really scared, or being stirred up to be being really scared. of all of Islam, of every muslim because of genocidal maniacs in ISIS. They are conflating terrorism and a cult with the religion as a whole. The point of the word is to take the religion back from those who would conflate be they the right wing in the USA or the jihadists of ISIS.

This is a war. A war fought on the battlefields and towns of Iraq and Syria and the suburbs of California. A war fought on the internet. A war fought with the meaning of words. If you want to cede territory to ISIS with your vocabulary you go ahead. The President obviously will not. I don't know what your motives are.... I can't imagine why the right would want Obama to lose so bad that they give in to ISIS. Think of it as a war of aspirations. Cause that is what it is.