Why aren't the Bundys in prison?

[SHRED]

Seriously. This can't be just because they are white.
They have firearms on Federal property and now are using Federal equipment to destroy a fence line.

What the F is going on here?
Why do they have electricity to the building?

THIS IS BEYOND FRUSTRATING.

[MohRokTah]

1. They're white rightwing terrorists.

That's why.

[jalan48]

13. So Obama likes right wing terrorists?

[mac2766]

21. I seriously doubt that the President of the United States

is directly involved in this situation. The FBI has leadership and subordinates that are in charge of making the decisions.

It's insane to believe that President Obama is directly involved with something as minor as this other than the possible infrequent briefing - if that.

[jalan48]

24. You think this is minor???

A group of armed protesters taking over a FEDERAL facility. Please.

[mac2766]

33. Well, yes.

It's minor.

Move along... nothing to see here except a few idiots waiting to go to jail.

[TBF]

52. First job is to protect the country - WTF? nt

[mac2766]

61. I'm not going to argue with you.

You're supposing that the President of the United States of America is directly responsible for something as insignificant as managing the outcome of this minuscule happening is more important than.. well... something important... shows me how reduced the intellect of the American public has become.

[TBF]

64. One Muslim turns up on that property

and all hell will break loose. But a bunch of good ole boys with their guns are just having a little fun. Your acceptance and rationalization speak volumes.

[mac2766]

78. What the heck are you talking about?

Last edited Sun Jan 17, 2016, 10:34 AM - Edit history (1)

Not sure you're arguing the same thing that I am.

[JoeyT]

31. Nope. My guess would be Obama is iffy on dropping the hammer on them

because he doesn't want to set the rest of the morons off. The second he so much as says something snarky to them right wing nuts are going to be crawling out of the woodwork to faux-martyr themselves, while being ably assisted by Fox and talk radio.

A handful of militia dipshits running around playing soldier are bad enough. Imagine how bad it could get if a few thousand of them start turning up there, along with random Republican politicians, Fox anchors, talk radio personalities, etc.

And that's assuming Obama is personally involved in these decisions....which...probably not. They're probably being made waaay below his level, and the situation, as bad as it is, will have to escalate quite a bit before it makes it up to him.

Edit: That's not to say I think inaction is a good idea. My vote would be to cut utilities to the building and block anyone bringing them supplies. They'd bugger off soon enough, and you could arrest them a few at a time later without having to shoot anyone.

[mac2766]

62. The President of the United States

is just not going to have to deal with a bunch of insignificant imbeciles. The FBI will be able to take care of them. That's what they're paid to do.

Have you ever heard of the word "subordinate"? Do you know what the word means? You may want to get a volume of the Encyclopedia Britannica, a Websters dictionary, or at least google the word for goodness sake. We really should be more intelligent than this. What is wrong with this group?

[TBF]

65. Wow - insulting everyone on the page.

You sure are clever.

[mac2766]

79. Sorry.. didn't mean to insult everyone on the page...

Just the people who have no idea what the word "Leadership" actually means. Hope you aren't one.

[JoeyT]

69. Well, if only the president were half as tough a guy as you pretend to be on the internet,

this situation would've been resolved in a matter of hours. You're absolutely right, he should roll out the tanks. Maybe nuke the state. That'll show 'em who's boss!

[deathrind]

77. Thank you!

It's a wildlife refuge not Grand Central station. Certainly a serious issue but not something the President is going to be directly involved in beyond a briefing by the USAG unless people start shooting. They can be waited out.

Having said that I am confounded as to why they are reportedly going off the property and allowed back on...also why do they still have power and water... maybe those systems cannot be isolated but if they can they should have been shut off days ago.

[Amishman]

82. i think this is the reason, dropping the hammer on them risks a spark

there are a shit ton of pissed off, well armed, militia types in this country. Better to wait until the fame fades and round them up individually later than risk setting off tens of thousands of anti-government militants.

[cheapdate]

2. Nobody knows, except maybe Attorney General Lynch, and she ain't saying.

[backscatter712]

5. Because she's a chickenshit coward. n/t

[passiveporcupine]

23. I did read one story on Oregon Live that said the feds are working on it

I can only hope that "working on it" will result in arrests. If not, especially now that they have started going through old files found in storage, and taken that fence down, I will be pretty pissed.

I guess the FBI works in strange and mysterious ways.

[MH1]

3. I have no idea.

It's disheartening.

If they were black, it would NEVER have been allowed to go this far.

[geek tragedy]

4. because the US govt considers rightwing men with guns above the law nt

[JEB]

8. Often, rightwing men with guns are the law.

These lowlife scum are making a mockery of the government. It's time to shit or get off the pot.

[babylonsister]

6. Rec'd. Very good question. nt

[7wo7rees]

7. Does this mean since we disagree with what the IRS

(ie, the govt) say we owe them we can refuse to pay?

We can work with this, how about you?

Hmmmm........

[RKP5637]

9. Sometimes I wonder if the feds are giving them enough rope to really hang

themselves? At least I would like to think that, but after the Bundy Ranch, I do wonder.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

10. Waco

That's why

?zz=1

[jwirr]

25. Yes and the followup in Oklahoma City. Wack one mole and

another crawls out of the hole.

Aside from that I have no idea what they are waiting for.

[SHRED]

37. So they are leaving the power to the building on...

...because of Waco?

The Feds won't even take a baby step.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

51. It might have something to do with the temps

Maybe? I don't know what it's like there, but in Chicago, during the winter, sometimes it's a good idea to leave the water running so your pipes don't freeze and crack. They know more than me about why you'd want the power on.

[Maedhros]

11. It's a matter of public perception and pragmatic propaganda.

Last edited Tue Jan 12, 2016, 01:15 AM - Edit history (1)

The Government wants you to be angry at the "terrorists" they want you to be angry at - namely, Muslims and Arabs, because our Government wants your blessing to go to Muslim/Arab countries and inflict suffering in the pursuit of oil for our overlords. If you are angry at Muslims and Arabs, you will not complain about the war crimes they commit as a result. Cracking down on Muslims or Arabs can therefore be used to let you vicariously live out your angry fantasies of revenge, which inoculates the Government from criticism and accountability.

The Government does not want you to be angry at white conservative "terrorists" because that gets them nothing but trouble. The Government is not going to perform 'signature strikes' and 'double-taps' against any white people, so your anger is not needed. Cracking down on white conservatives will only rile up more white conservatives (yes, yes, I know this is true of Muslims and Arabs as well, but those people are brown and far away so we don't care).

Therefore the misbehaving white conservatives get the kid gloves treatment.

[jwirr]

28. I see what you are saying but that should not mean that

they cannot use passive action such as turning off the power and closing the supply road down.

Waco was an idiots war that ended in the government looking like a bully. A siege is a whole different thing.

[Maedhros]

42. Obama has always been more concerned with what the conservatives think

than what the liberals think.

[KT2000]

12. are ALL national forests, refuges,

and parks up for grabs now? I can see armed militia deciding they want to spend the summer at Mt. Rainier National Park and keeping checkpoints to deny anyone else access. If the feds are not going to do anything they should explain why because this is an offense against the whole country - not just an agency of the government.

[Ford_Prefect]

19. That seems to be the plan behind the Bundy action. Ask the ones who are paying for

them and enabling them behind the scenes to do it. Follow the damn money trail.

It isn't that hard to do. The ranching, mining, oil & gas industries have a big stake in this, as does the anti-Federal Republican party. Look at the politicians who are ever so sincerely sympathetic without ever spending a day herding cattle.

In other countries the Bundys would be considered poachers and thieves, not some aberrant variation of patriot. Think about that.

[MrChuck]

14. Here's my idea

If you try to arrest them, they'll resist and cops will do what is often their duty, to use forceful procedures.
That will cause violence to escalate.
That will cause gunfire and death.
Ultimately the police or nat'l guard or whomever was necessary would be able to contain the situation and prevail but you can't win the PR war that way.

Oh, and they're not dead already because they're white and that's that.

[SHRED]

38. Why not just shut the power off for starters.

[MurrayDelph]

84. They don't have a standard grid

The small country they're in has an energy co-op, and the only way to shut off their power is to either shut down the whole county or send an electrical truck to the property (where the technician would be a target for these macho thugs).

[Bigmack]

86. You mean they don't have a transformer box...

somewhere? Lines going into the building(s)?

You mean that if a tree.. or something... takes a line down, the whole grid goes?

[UTUSN]

15. Yes, White. No, still have electricity. Yes, beyond frustrating. n/t

[zentrum]

16. No, it

…is because they are white. And have the same teaparty politics as the local police. And because their presence is a thorn in the side of Obama and the Democrats—because they get a platform every night on tee-vee and radio to spew their anti-government distortions. And all that works well for the powers that be.

And the Feds don't want WACO—but they would go in, anyway, if these guys weren't white.

[FailureToCommunicate]

20. That's it in a nutshell.

[OnionPatch]

32. Yep. White AND right wing.

The right wing part is as important as the skin color. If these were "tree-hugging, hippie" environmentalists breaking and entering federal property, cutting federal land fences and threatening the government with weapons, we'd probably be reading about their funerals right about now, even if they were white.

[jalan48]

17. Ask Obama. He's in charge.

[mac2766]

22. Goodness....

So the President of the United States is supposed to be directly involved with every single minor thing that goes on in the US?

That's an absolutely insane proposition.

[jalan48]

26. I think this is much bigger than a "minor thing". It's at least as important as a photo op with a

college football team wouldn't you say?

[mac2766]

34. Yes. This is a minor incident.

Moving along. Nothing to see here. Just a few idiots waiting to go to jail.

[jalan48]

36. We shall see how minor this is down the road.

It appears Obama has no plan to deal with this. Has he dealt with Cliven Bundy yet?

[mac2766]

63. The President of the United States

is just not going to have to deal with a bunch of insignificant imbeciles. The FBI will be able to take care of them. That's what they're paid to do.

Have you ever heard of the word "subordinate"? Do you know what the word means? You may want to get a volume of the Encyclopedia Britannica, a Websters dictionary, or at least google the word for goodness sake. We really should be more intelligent than this. What is wrong with this group?

[TBF]

66. And you used the same message upthread -

determined to get that message out.

Hmmm.

[jalan48]

68. He definitely seems to have an agenda on this one. Given he's so new to the scene it is interesting.

[mac2766]

81. Just don't seem to understand how

Last edited Sun Jan 17, 2016, 10:36 AM - Edit history (1)

people can point a finger at a leader when the leader has so little to do with issues that his subordinates should be able to take care of.

In your opinion.. President Obama is actually responsible for everything negative that is happening in your life.

Shouldn't it also be the same for everything positive then? If something happens in your life that makes you feel happy, shouldn't he then be responsible for that?

.... if you enjoy the movie that you just saw.. "Thanks Obama"
.... if you enjoy the pizza that you just ate.. "Thanks Obama"
.... If you enjoy WHATEVER... "THANKS OBAMA!!!!!"

Blame President Obama for everything negative that you are experiencing, but.... give him credit for EVERYTHING that is going right in your life then.

[TBF]

83. What kind of f****** BS is this?

Seriously, I worked on the campaign. You obviously have an agenda and you're here to spew it.

Welcome to ignore.

[mac2766]

85. Not sure I follow.

Of course. You need to understand the meaning of the word "follow" to understand the meaning of the word "lead".

[jalan48]

67. What would DU have ever done without you genius?

BTW-subordinate means that they take orders from someone above. You understand that right? Obama gives the orders and they follow up. How did you ever get so simple-minded?

[mac2766]

80. Eh?

Last edited Sun Jan 17, 2016, 10:35 AM - Edit history (1)

Who mentioned anything about a college football team?

[jalan48]

74. Justice Department? Who does the AG report to?

[uponit7771]

70. Yeap, the water preassure was low in Mansfield... it's Obama's fault dammit!! /sarcasm

... cause that's needed around here

[jalan48]

73. There went the "they get to do it because they are white" argument.

[NutmegYankee]

18. Because gathering up a few hundred cops and heavy equipment would set off a firefight.

And it would look really bad on TV and would likely finish radicalizing a few right wing extremists to engage in real terrorism.

The kind that looks like this:

[SHRED]

39. What explains not shutting off the electricity?

[underahedgerow]

43. They brought generators along, so what's the point in turning off the electricity?

They have snow for water, and if they didn't have running water, they would ruin the plumbing.

What's the rush to justice here? Provoking a greater response from these boys and their toys would only draw more attention to them, and probably instigate other terrorists around the US to commit dangerous acts. This is EXACTLY what they want! We don't need another Ruby Ridge or Waco.

NO one's life should be put at risk here for a bunch of suburban ghetto losers. What would that solve or prove?

Treat them the way bullies should be treated. Laugh at them and ignore them.

[SHRED]

49. These bullies are the ones laughing

All they see is cowardice.
They are emboldened. There's going too far that way also ya know.

[underahedgerow]

50. Why give a crap what they think? They're on the losing end of this idiocy. They're the ones dining

on snausages and shuffling around in dirty socks.

What emboldened? No reaction is the best reaction to this nonsense. Nothing more humiliating than not being taken seriously.

They wanted their buddies to get out of jail. Well, that's not happening.

They want federal lands to be available for privatization. Well, that's not going to happen either. I'm sure they want a buttload of other stupid crap too, but the only answer is 'no'. So they are on the losing end.

Escalate this into a violent confrontation and they win.

Let them freeze out for the winter in obscurity and mediocrity. Their resources will dry up pretty darned quick, these aren't the smart guys doing this. These are the guys from the shallow end of the gene pool!

[cwydro]

53. They need fuel for the generators, which burn it pretty quick.

If they don't allow them off the property, then they'll run out of fuel fast.

[Lizzie Poppet]

55. Exactly.

And while there's a fireplace in at lest one of the buildings, there's only about two weeks worth of wood for it, if one of the pictures from the site represents the amount on hand. So they'll need to burn generator fuel for heat, as well as pumping water from the well, ensuring pipes don't freeze, etc..

[ncjustice80]

59. Both were a bunch of Reich Wingers.

Honestly, we probably need more Ruby Ridges. Clean the bastards out, let the non-violent drug offenders out of prison and stack up the reich wing tea-hadists instead. The country will be much safer. The FBI needs to drop the racism and take the kids gloves off to deal with these clowns.

[ncjustice80]

60. September 11 was way worse but that didn't stop use from entering into multiple illegal wars and

persecuting Muslims globally.

Screw these guys- Americans who vote for and support the right wing are a bigger enemy to me than any Islamic terrorist from overseas. They've done more damage to human rights, our economy, Medicare, education, and the enviroment than any ISIS or Al Qaeda member ever has.

[padfun]

27. Maybe they all have the same Masters?

[SoapBox]

29. Agreed.

And it's bullshit that they are still there playing their bizzare little game.

[valerief]

30. They must be doing what TPTB want. nt

[ChisolmTrailDem]

35. I'm glad you said it, valerief. It makes you wonder. TPTB have longed pitted us against...

...each other. Maybe they want a civil war now?

It's really weird how this is going down.

[valerief]

57. They'll go for anything to dissolve the government, so the oligarchs can rebuild it to their

liking without the fuss of that pesky Constitution.

[Zambero]

40. So Feds & local gov't aren't coerced into doing their bidding?

My guess anyway. The Bundy boys & company hope for provocation from authorities, escalating into violence and assuring that they are enshrined as "patriotic" heroes and inspiration for larger scale insurrection. This might entail becoming a "martyr". Terrorists take the long view. Not providing them with what they came for would seem to be the more pragmatic approach.

[SHRED]

41. Turn water, power, and phones off.

Back off and wait.
Arrest them as they leave.

[underahedgerow]

44. They have their own power, there is plenty of local water. But I do favor jamming all their

communications... but even then, if the authorities do that, then the authorities are more limited in monitoring the situation.

Ignoring them is the best solution, let them just slink away.

Charges and arrest warrants don't disappear. So far, there is no violence, no actual destruction, just a bunch of little boys playing dress up.

[SHRED]

45. No destruction?

They tore a fence down today.
They changed the sign to the building.

[underahedgerow]

56. Oh the horror. Cows. A sign.

Not enough to instigate a gun fight or risking anyone's life.

[SHRED]

46. I've read nowhere that they have generators.

[womanofthehills]

48. generators use up gas quickly

they would have to put gas on their long list of supplies.

[tblue37]

47. In 2006 the FBI published a report about how white supremacists were

systematically infiltrating law enforcement agencies and institutions at all levels.

Maybe the problem is that many in permanent and powerful positions actually agree with or at least sympathize with these yahoos.

http://thegrio.com/2015/05/12/fbi-white-supremacists-law-enforcement/

Maybe this is like what Obama had to do with the Republicans and rightwingers generally. He was so quiet, conciliatory, and reasonable that they kept getting more and more extreme, until finally a lot of people could no longer ignore what was going on.

Maybe they are trying the same rope-a-dope ploy here, letting Y'allquaeda commit so many outrages that even those who lean toward their side will finally have to agree that they all need to be charged with numerous felonies.

[uponit7771]

71. +1

[1939]

75. The FBI

Reports to AG Lynch who reports to Pres Obama. Anytime the Pres or the AG or both wants to kill the interlopers, all they have to do is say the word. They haven't so far. Is that 'coddling" white right wing gun humpers? What are the motivations for the Pres and AG to drag this out? Like the Siegelman pardon, there seems to be something that they know that we don't.

[jumptheshadow]

54. Maybe there are circumstances we don't know about?

And there is inside surveillance that is productive?

We have a sliver of information and not enough to make an educated observation. Just enough to be frustrated....

[KamaAina]

58. Because Al bought their way out of it with a discount on shoes?

[jmowreader]

72. The best part about the Bundys destroying the fence line...

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/rancher_i_didnt_know_anything.html#incart_story_package

The rancher whose property is separated from Malheur by the fence Ammon Bundy tore out is named Tim Puckett. He says he never asked the Bundy Gang to tear the fence out, and the day after Bundy tore it out Puckett rebuilt it.

[tazkcmo]

76. They're white. n/t