Why has Jeb Bush's college graduation year been omitted by the media for at least 30 years now?

[anobserver2]

Last edited Sat Jun 9, 2018, 08:30 AM - Edit history (35)

When voters vote for a candidate, I think the bottom line is they vote for someone they decide they can trust.

But how does anyone trust a candidate such as Jeb Bush, when he can't seem to come up with a month and year of graduation for his college graduation for the past 17 years? (Title changed to "30" years, with addition of entry #13 today, Dec 31, 2016.)

I am referring to the following 12 (changed to 13) examples of omission in the media, from Sept 1998 (before he was elected governor for the first time) to as recently as December 2015. (Actually, from June 1986, with new entry #13)

Every other candidate who claims a college degree has a year attached to the graduation date of the degree except this candidate, Jeb Bush.

Does anyone have any explanation for this persistent material omission of a graduation year by the media for Jeb Bush?

In short, what does Jeb Bush tell the media is his month and year of college graduation?


---------
Example #1:

-- “Jeb was the Phi Beta
Kappa who blazed through college in under three years"

From: The Washington Examiner, “The problem with Jeb Bush is Jeb” by Noemie Emery, December 22, 2015
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/the-problem-with-jeb-bush-is-jeb/article/2578860

------------
Example #2:

-- “He graduated college in two and a half years” “

From: The Atlantic - "The Mysterious Columba Bush,”
by Hanna Rosin, June 2015

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/06/the-mysterious-columba-bush/392090/

------

Example #3:

“John Ellis Bush, by
contrast, breezed through the University of Texas in 2-1/2 years"

From: The Los Angeles Times,

“Bush brothers have a complex relationship,
marked by fierce rivalry, wounded feelings,”
by Mark Z. Barabak,
June 17, 2015

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83798651/

------
Example #4:

-- “Jeb Bush passed on Yale…. It took him less than three years to graduate
magna cum laudea degree in Latin American studies.”

From: The Texas Tribune, “In Texas, a Focused
Jeb Bush Stood Out From The Crowd,” by Ryan McCrimmon, March 17, 2015

http://www.texastribune.org/2015/03/17/jeb-bush-texas-years/

-----------

Example #5

“[Jeb] Bush had enough problems trying to pass his courses. ...The student who once nearly flunked out said he made the honor roll in the final trimester of his senior year. ... He went instead to the University of Texas in Austin, majored in Latin American studies, graduated in an unusually speedy 2½ years, and married Columba. ..."

From: The Boston Globe, “Jeb Bush shaped by troubled Phillips Academy years,”
by Michael Kranish, Feb 1, 2015

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2015/02/01/tumultuous-four-years-phillips-academy-helped-shape-jeb-bush/q6ccyHNOtP1n6kqDokMBfK/story.html

--------------------

Example #6:

“Jeb Bush raced through the University of Texas in two and half (years)"

From: The New York Times, "Jeb Bush Gives Party Something Something To Think About,”
by Michael Barbaro, May 24, 2014

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/us/politics/jeb-bush-gives-party-something-to-think-about.html?_r=0

---------
Example #7:

-- “He graduated with a degree in Latin American Studies in just 2 1/2 years and they married soon after at UT-Austin Catholic Center in 1974"

From: POLITICO Magazine, “How Jeb Bush Schooled
the Florida Press,” by S.V. Date, April 2014

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/04/jeb-bush-reporters-florida-schooled-the-press-
117004

------------

Examples #8-#9:

“He completed his coursework in two and a half years"

From: Wikipedia, footnote #19, on Jeb Bush page,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeb_Bush

and

Above footnote #19 from -- Page 404, Kitty Kelley's September 2004
biography of the Bushes: “The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty”

http://www.amazon.com/Family-Real-Story-Bush-Dynasty-ebook/dp/B000FC28TO/ref=sr_1_6?
s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1451993147&sr=1-6&keywords=kitty+kelly+biographies

--------
Example #10:

-- “[Jeb] chose the University of Texas and then squeezed a four-year program into 2 years, graduating Phi Beta Kappa, just to be with her"

From: Sun Sentinel,“First Lady, First Steps” by Linda Kleindienst, Tallahassee Bureau Chief,
February 18, 1999

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1999-02-18/lifestyle/9902170447_1_columba-bush-columba-garnicagallo-
jeb-bush

----------
Example #11:

-- “Three years later they married... Jeb was about to graduate with a degree in Latin American Studies."

From: St. Petersburg Times, “First, ladies” by Jeanne Malmgren,
October 28, 1998

http://www.sptimes.com/Floridian/102898/First__ladies2.html

---------------

Example #12:

“...his earliest jobs came from friends of the family. After earning his degree in Latin American studies at the University of Texas...”

From: The St Petersburg Times, “Make the Money and Run”
By Alecia Swasy and Robert Trigaux, September 20, 1998

http://www.sptimes.com/State/92098/Make_The_Money_and_Ru.html

------------

Note on 1/30/16 editing: The original post had 9 sources above, but Example #12 from Sept 1998 has now been added (St Pete Times), as has Example #5 from Feb 2015 (Boston Globe). Also -- the Wikipedia page footnote and Kitty Kelley book are now listed above as Examples 8-9 instead of just one example; this editing today results in a total of 12 examples.


---------------------------

Example #13:


"... Jeb Bush: 'I was more concerned about graduating (from college) as soon as possible.'

He graduated in less than 2 1/2 years, Phi Beta Kappa, and got a job with the Texas Commerce Bank. Raised an Episcopalian, he became a Roman Catholic and married Columba. The bank assigned him to Venezuela for two years..."

GH Bush: "No dropout problems. And no, you know, real crises, that that generation had, at the time of the Vietnam thing. I'd expect they'd say, yeah, I've been a good father."

From: The Miami Herald's Tropic Magazine, "Family Business"
By Joel Achenbach, June 1, 1986

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2013/04/from-the-vault-the-definitive-early-years-jeb-bush-profile.htm

Note: The "1986" publication date of the above #13 entry means this cover-up of Jeb Bush's alleged graduation date has been going on a lot longer than "17 years" -- we're now at 30 years.

----------------------------------
Added to this thread June 9, 2018:

Example #14 -

...“I mastered academics after I met my wife,” Bush said. “I made the honor roll one trimester at Andover — it was the last one, which breaks all conventional wisdom.”

Bush, who finished in the second quarter of his high-school class, nonetheless arrived at the University of Texas in 1971 with enough credits to skip a year of course work...."

...Bush’s UT studies were heavy with Spanish literature and American and Latin American politics. The only C on his transcript was in “Cultural Anthropology,” in his freshman year.

From: The Miami Herald, "Long Held Values Shape Public Life of Jeb Bush" by William Yardley - "Sept 22, 2002, updated June 10, 2015"

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/jeb-bush/article23680144.html

Note: This article does not explain there was a group grade given to students who went to Mexico to build a school, so it hardly "breaks all conventional wisdom" that since he was part of that group he received the honor roll grade - as he never once made honor roll as an individual student is my understanding.

The article also omits identifying what kind of "credits" enabled him to "skip a year of course work." He wasn't an AP student. He couldn't possibly have scored high enough on CLEP tests to gain college credit after his failing high school record.

Also, the allegedly existing college transcript grades do not average out to the extremely high GPA later advertised in an alumni magazine which is posted elsewhere on this thread. (It seems like a very false ad.)

Finally, this Example #14 article claims he was a "freshman," (so he did not begin as a "sophomore" as he now claims on CNBC below). Another article claims he was a "sophomore" in the years which would correspond to that: See the Texas Tribune article - Example #4 - claiming the tennis team roster lists him as a sophomore in 1973:

"Bush was added to the 1973 (tennis team) roster, listed as a 6-1, 165-pound sophomore. He didn’t travel with the team, but tallied four singles wins, five doubles wins and zero losses."

* * *
June 2018 update

Jeb Bush is now speaking at CNBC, claiming for the first time I have seen that he began college as a "sophomore" because he passed CLEP tests in English, Math and History. I don't think he did that in light
of his failing high school record. Here is the clip:

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/06/07/jeb-bush-college-costs-freshman-year-free-program.html

Jeb Bush claiming in 2018 on CNBC he began UT as a sophomore despite the fact Entry #14 above says he was a freshman:

From CNBC, Jeb Bush: “I started as a sophomore, took all my English, Math, History as CLEP...”


He then implied AP or CLEP credits for himself in print on CNBC:

"...The program helps students study for Advanced Placement exams as well as CLEP exams, which stands for "College Level Examination Program." These tests have been administered by The College Board for over 40 years, and allow students to take inexpensive exams and earn transferable college credit in a variety of academic subjects, allowing some students to earn credits before they even step on campus. This approach allowed Bush to start at the University of Texas as a sophomore. ..."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/08/jeb-bush-college-still-has-value-and-should-be-more-affordable.html
------------

Without naming a college graduation year, there are now four different explanations as to how Jeb Bush allegedly "earned" a 4 year college degree without spending 4 years doing so:

1- the "squeezing" of the coursework reported by a 1999 newspaper above -- Example #10 -- which is not CLEP and seems more like an attempt to make the university sound like it is not on a time-based system;

2-the allegedly "enterprising" quality of Student Jeb! taking far more courses each semester and in the summers, made by a lawyer on another thread -- as though the academic department is not the one deciding when courses are offered;

3-the implied representation in Example #14 above that AP credits are being transferred in from high school -- since the name of these credits is not identified in the article; and now:

4-"CLEP" is declared by Jeb on television in the above video clip as the method by which he graduated early. (Gee, it only took 30+ years for him to come up with that word.)

I don't believe he is a college graduate. Because there are now four different explanations on how he allegedly graduated in less time than 4 years (and as his failing high school record should have resulted in remedial work in order to succeed at higher ed coursework, so that it would have taken MORE time (not less time) than 4 years for him if he ever sought a 4 year degree)

I think Jeb Bush, his parents and his wife all lied to the public for more than 30 years to deceive voters and fraudulently win votes. That is my opinion. But I think it is also fact. It is just common sense and logic. You don't fail high school, meet a girl, and then overnight become a genius. Sorry. Learning takes a little more time than that.

[anobserver2]

1. It may be Jeb Bush is actually a college drop-out

To the cynical among us, it may be that Jeb Bush knows he is a college drop-out, so - he never mentioned any month and year of college graduation.

But why the media then publishes the above propaganda it does publish -- instead of answering the question of WHEN he allegedly graduated OR stating "Jeb Bush can't come up with a month and year of college graduation" -- is beyond me.

[403Forbidden]

75. Where is the evidence that he ever graduated from Texas? Further investigation is warranted...

...in light of these potential discrepancies. There's should be some publicly available documentation confirming Jeb's graduation....if he actually graduated.

[merrily]

2. Yet, he seems dimmer and more incompetent than Dimson.

Phi Beta Kappa? Magna cum laude?

[anobserver2]

3. By the way this is a short list of media omission

I have seen this same material omission (of any month and year of Jeb Bush's alleged college graduation) in other media as well.

[saltpoint]

4. The Bushes just don't quite seem to

have it together.

And they've collectively done a lot of bad stuff, sometimes stupid stuff, other times clueless and inappropriate stuff.

The word out on the trail is that Jeb's campaign appearances are brain-numbingly dull. Jeb himself, in his snottiest rich-boy tone of voice, told reporters there were plenty of cool things he could be doing instead of running for president.

Well, Jeb, one of them might be to figure out when you graduated from college.

[3catwoman3]

103. "...plenty of cool things he could be doing instead of running for president."

By all means, Jeb, please go do them, pronto.

[saltpoint]

106. Thumbs up to that. Couldn't come soon

enough for most of us.

[CanonRay]

5. This is something I haven't heard before

wonder why no intrepid reporter went up to Austin to see for themselves.

[anobserver2]

11. Actually, there is a lot more to this story...

But, I will leave that for another thread...

Suffice to say: in my opinion, there has been no real vetting of Jeb Bush, that's for sure.

[MH1]

26. If he starts polling high enough to threaten Trump or Cruz,

maybe they'll pay attention to him.

Then maybe this stuff will come out.

Meanwhile though, no one perceives him as a threat. So why would Trump, for example, take attention away from the question of Cruz even being eligible to be President?

[anobserver2]

34. That's trie = no one perceives Jeb Bush as a threat

I believe some editors are convinced Jeb Bush has no chance whatsoever of being the nominee.

However, until he officially leaves the race, and he is not the VP choice, I am not so sure what will happen.

[CanonRay]

29. Shouts of "Let's see the diploma"

[anobserver2]

35. Oh so what if he did produce a diploma? My point here is still valid.

Why doesn't the media ask WHEN? And if there is no answer from him to the media, then why doesn't the media report he refused to answer? That's the point of this thread.

[CanonRay]

68. I suspect he may not have one!

The Bush family are genetic liars. I got the point of the thread...no need to be strident. I get it. Geez, you people are touchy.

[Android3.14]

6. Are you saying he didn't graduate?

Then say it and offer proof.
Otherwise, let's move on to something substantial. This guys isn't going to be President anyway.

[anobserver2]

10. You're welcome

I think I offered more than enough "proof" that for at least 17 years, the media has omitted any month and year of Jeb Bush's alleged college graduation.

You're welcome.

[Android3.14]

42. Definitely needed quotes around that word "proof"

This is stupid.

[anobserver2]

52. Don't know what you're implying - these are real links to real articles

So - that's proof.

[Android3.14]

69. Don't be obtuse

Every one of those links specifically say he graduated. You were unable to infer what I was implying, so let me make it specific. You are making shit up without proof for reasons that have nothing to do with politics and everything to do with trolling.

It's a needless character flaw.

By the way, I ignore those with needless character flaws.

[Fla Dem]

107. 1973

Born on February 11, 1953 in Midland Texas, Jeb Bush graduated magna cum laude from the University of Texas with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Latin American Studies. Just before graduation, in 1973, he married Columba Garnica Gallo, a native of Mexico.

http://www.museumoffloridahistory.com/resources/collections/governors/about.cfm?id=50

[anobserver2]

108. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POSTING THIS OFFICIAL GOV BIO OF JEB BUSH!

Thank you so much!!!

Here it is, in its CURRENT entirety, from that link you so kindly posted:

Forty-third governor
January 5, 1999 to January 2, 2007

Born on February 11, 1953 in Midland Texas, Jeb Bush graduated magna cum laude from the University of Texas with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Latin American Studies. Just before graduation, in 1973, he married Columba Garnica Gallo, a native of Mexico. They now have three children. Bush moved to Miami Florida in 1980 to help form what became a highly successful real estate company. He became the chairman of the Dade County Republican Party in 1984, and in 1987 Governor Bob Martinez appointed him to head the state's commerce department. In 1994 Bush ran for governor against a popular incumbent, Lawton Chiles, losing by a small margin. In 1998 he ran again, successfully campaigning on issues related to public school education, urban renewal, and Medicaid funding among other issues.

Governor Jeb Bush was elected Florida's 43rd Governor in 1998, and was re-elected in 2002. During his two terms, Governor Bush revolutionized the education system to achieve dramatic rising student achievement, provided substantial, broad based tax relief and economic incentives to strengthen and diversify Florida's economy. He also initiated measures to strengthen families, help the state's most vulnerable citizens, and protect Florida's natural resources.
-------

Now, note to all: his public record marriage license states he married in Feb 1974. And, this official bio above is claiming what -- a "1973" graduation year from UT? And he married BEFORE 1973? I don't think so. He married in 1974. So oops! I guess they made a mistake on his bio here, and meant to write AFTER : Just "after" graduation he married. Is that what they meant?

I have news for you all: he started UT in Sept 1971, after graduating high school in June 1971. With NO AP college credits from high school to bring into UT, and NO transfer credits from another college to bring into UT, he had a 4-year road ahead of him.

In order to receive a 4-year degree in Latin American Studies from UT, he would have to be at UT until: June 1975. He wasn't.

I believe his last semester was at the end of winter 1973, In Jan 1974 I believe he officially withdrew from UT -- the same year the new federal law FERPA took effect. In short, he dropped out -- with UT now required by federal law to conceal his incomplete transcript. (The following month, he married -- in Feb 1974.)

But -- his official bio here is currently claiming a "1973" college graduation year. I think this is a false public record. The only way to graduate from UT with that 4-year degree would be for him to be there until June 1975. He wasn't.

So again: this official bio is a lie and a false public record, in my opinion, based on the above. That's what I believe. Jeb Bush is a total liar. I am sorry to say that to all those who think otherwise. But if you can't even tell the truth about yourself, you have no business running for office and asking for the public trust. Get off the public stage if you can't even tell the truth about your own life.

[saltpoint]

13. Jeb's the guy who needs to give us

a date. A college can confirm the date given.

The media can remove their heads from their assess and report it accurately.

Old process, works pretty well when implemented.

[anobserver2]

36. That's correct - he needs to give a date; he hasn't is what it appears to me.

The media should report his response accurately. I agree completely. And yes, it's an "old" process, as you said.

[Android3.14]

70. I hate defending Jeb, but this is stupid click bait

Hardly any article for any candidate points out the day of graduation. If he lied about graduating college, it would have come out years ago.

Maybe a cup of coffee would help.

[Vinca]

7. No one cares if Jeb went to school at all. No one is interested.

I can't imagine why the idea a Republican might be untruthful is a shocker.

[anobserver2]

8. Why does the media contribute to any candidate's lies?

The journalists on the above 9 examples are from both the left and right, and some are rather well known and credible. Why is it they can't simply report the FACTS, if the FACT is this: "Jeb Bush refused to disclose a month and year of college graduation." That's my question here. This gibbly-goosh they report instead is a bunch of nothingness.

[Vinca]

14. Don't get me started on the media today.

I'm currently extremely pissed that no one is bothering to correct the right when they say we're giving mountains of money to Iran in exchange for the hostages. It's Iran's money and we were holding it hostage.

[Octafish]

9. Corporate McPravda always give Bushes a pass. Always.

Ignoring what really happened is SOP for our Presstitutes. Remember Florida?



Here's how much of the nation's press were magically transformed from watchdogs into lapdogs:

The Powell Memo (also known as the Powell Manifesto)

The Powell Memo was first published August 23, 1971

Introduction

In 1971, Lewis Powell, then a corporate lawyer and member of the boards of 11 corporations, wrote a memo to his friend Eugene Sydnor, Jr., the Director of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. The memorandum was dated August 23, 1971, two months prior to Powell’s nomination by President Nixon to the U.S. Supreme Court.

The Powell Memo did not become available to the public until long after his confirmation to the Court. It was leaked to Jack Anderson, a liberal syndicated columnist, who stirred interest in the document when he cited it as reason to doubt Powell’s legal objectivity. [font color="red"]Anderson cautioned that Powell “might use his position on the Supreme Court to put his ideas into practice…in behalf of business interests.”[/font color]

Though Powell’s memo was not the sole influence, the Chamber and corporate activists took his advice to heart and began building a powerful array of institutions designed to shift public attitudes and beliefs over the course of years and decades. The memo influenced or inspired the creation of the Heritage Foundation, the Manhattan Institute, the Cato Institute, Citizens for a Sound Economy, Accuracy in Academe, and other powerful organizations. Their long-term focus began paying off handsomely in the 1980s, in coordination with the Reagan Administration’s “hands-off business” philosophy.

Most notable about these institutions was their focus on education, shifting values, and movement-building — a focus we share, though often with sharply contrasting goals.* (See our endnote for more on this.)

So did Powell’s political views influence his judicial decisions? The evidence is mixed. [font color="red"]Powell did embrace expansion of corporate privilege and wrote the majority opinion in First National Bank of Boston v. Bellotti, a 1978 decision that effectively invented a First Amendment “right” for corporations to influence ballot questions.[/font color] On social issues, he was a moderate, whose votes often surprised his backers.

CONTINUED...

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/powell_memo_lewis/

This story continues through today, where we have Chief Justice John Roberts shepherding corporate friendly law through the court, let alone appointing nothing but BFEE-friendly pukes to the FISA Court, and the press working mightily to move on to the next shiny object. Of course, Congress and the Administration do their bit to advance the interests of Corporate America, Wall Street, and War Inc, unchecked by public awareness.

[anobserver2]

37. I agree; the media appears to me to give a "pass" to the Bushes --

Until of course, it's too late. Then you have one journalist who finally does his job, and as a result, we as a nation are asking questions like: "What proof of a nuclear bomb?" "Why dd we go to war?" Etc.

The Bushes get away with A LOT in the media is my perception, too. And this thread is further proof of that.

But it is BOTH the left and right, is what it seems to me.

[yeoman6987]

77. Until it's to late?

You don't even have to have a college degree to be president. But like others have said, if he lied about it, others would have known by now. He did have democratic candidates running against him.

[Rex]

87. SSDD.

And still they think their shit is clever after all this time...no, not at all. I like the fact that apologists for the Bush regime are still brave enough to show it...lets the new kids know what side of the field they play on.

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. It was in 1974

After graduating from the University of Texas (B.A., 1974), Bush was hired by the Texas Commerce Bank, and for a time he worked at a branch in Venezuela.

http://www.britannica.com/biography/Jeb-Bush

Do you really think that when writing about a degree, people are obliged to always state the year of graduation? That would be bizarre.

[anobserver2]

15. You claim "1974" - ?

Well, he graduated high school in June 1971.

He began attending college in Sept 1971,.

It's a 4-year degree.

He should have been there until June 1975 if he graduated with a degree. (According to the college, by the way, it is a 4-year degree from "start to finish.&quot .

So, here's what I think: he dropped out in 1974 - not graduated.

But, guess what? FERPA took effect in 1974. Do you know that that is? It's a federal law that conceals college transcripts from the public.

So are you sure he graduated in 1974? or do you think maybe he dropped out in 1974? Especially if the college program he was in claims: you have to be there for four years -- not 2, not 2-1/2, not less than 3. Four years.

He wasn't there for four years. Because: he dropped out, in 1974, is what I believe, based on the information from that college I obtained.

[exboyfil]

16. Need to find someone with an old program

I assume they would list degrees and honors on them. No guarantee that the individual actually graduated since they don't have the grades from the final semester, but it would be a start.

My daughter graduated high school in May, 2014. She is on target for graduating in May, 2016 with a B.S. Mechanical Engineering. I graduated high school in May, 1981 and I graduated with a B.S. Mechanical Engineering in Dec, 1984 (could have been Aug, 1984 if I had gone to summer school my final summer). For a prepared student graduating in three years is not unreasonable.

[anobserver2]

17. Very good - get an old graduation program from: when? Jen 1974 or June 1974?

January and June are the only months for graduation at that university as I understand it.

But, what month did Jeb Bush allegedly graduate? August 1974? When there's no graduation -- and no graduation program?

Hint: he's not claiming he graduated in Jan 1974 or June 1974.

I truly believe he dropped out in Jan 1974. To understand why would take another thread, coming at some point.

[HereSince1628]

44. There's often no commencement ceremony in August, on the street completion of requirements

is also in the conversation.

I completed requirements for my undergrad degree in 3 years, plus a half summer term. I needed credit from one more college to complete general studies distribution requirements. I looked at it as having finished in the summer before I started my masters program, my transcript shows that summer term as my last date in attendance, it also says degree conferred in December.

That could be confusing to people, I suppose. I took summer courses and more than full-time credit loads, I was using GI bill to live on and wanted to keep that stipend coming in.

At the time, it was typical for a BS to take 8 semesters and a fraction to complete... usually a bit more than 4 years. I think now it's pretty common to take closer to five years to complete.

Having no family that cared about my higher ed, and not feeling a personal need for the experience, I never attended any commencement ceremony for my undergrad or for my graduate degrees. So, I'm not sure if my name was ever included in graduation programs or not.

I always provided certified copies of my transcripts with school seals impressed into the paper for my job applications. But, I think as part of applicant screening process employers have called Texas A&M to confirm that my doctorate was conferred.

If I were looking for someone's degree, I'd be looking for it at the school's office of student records.

[anobserver2]

54. Yes, that makes sense - a winter graduation date for you

RE: "my transcript shows that summer term as my last date in attendance, it also says degree conferred in December."

Right. That is typically how a college does it on a transcript - shows the date of your last class attended (in your case, the summer), and then a date of graduation - i(in your case, the following December - winter).

Typically there is no "graduation" ceremony in the summer. It is in the winter at mid-point (Dec or Jan) and then at the end of the year (May or June).

So, my question remains: why didn't the media get a month and year of graduation from Jeb Bush about his alleged college graduation?

And by the way, none of these 9 links reported 3+ years in attendance as was your case. They all reported "less than 3" years.

[HereSince1628]

63. I don't know about the 70's but it's pretty common for kids to enter with college credit

from high school courses and other 'relevant' experience.

Maybe Bush got credit for up to 4 semesters of Spanish language mastery, maybe general studies credits for a couple semesters of all of math, English, western civilization (which was a common requirement back then). I can imagine more than a year of such credits.

I don't know what J.E.B. did, but a college transcript would help clear up all those possible transfer credits, too.

[anobserver2]

18. Yeah, if the program offers courses in the summer - what if they don't?

Re: "For a prepared student graduating in three years is not unreasonable."

Agreed. But what if the college does not offer the courses you need in the summer? What if the program is a 4-year program because only in fall and spring are the courses for that program offered?

You have to know more about the specific college program to allege a possible graduation -- and to understand their requirements.

[1939]

22. Two of my granddaughters got their bachelors in three years NT

[anobserver2]

28. Like I said - in today's world it's different - you can get a bachelor' in one year -

but we're talking about the 1970's here with Jeb Bush's alleged degree.

[1939]

49. Not from a reputable university NT

[anobserver2]

57. Interesting article here, from the WSJ

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323301104578255992379228564

[Maeve]

64. I got my BA in May 1976 at Ohio State--3 years (included a summer session)

I needed a course that wasn't offered the last quarter, but was allowed to take a different "equivalent" course--it happened. I wasn't able to graduate with honors because I was planning my wedding the same quarter I took seven three-hour classes and blew my average (missed by .005 point or some such).

[anobserver2]

20. And you have to keep this all in context - 1970's etc

In today's world, there are online "one year" bachelor programs. Seriously. But in the 1970's? There was not any distance learning or one-year bachelor's programs.

You have to also understand something called the Carnegie unit. And to know if UT is and was on that system. (They are.)

There are some other things you have to know, too. Seeing the college transcript is not nearly as important as one might thing. Other factors, put together, and examined, can tell you if the separation from college was a graduation - or a drop out.

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. The Encyclopedia Britannica says it was in 1974

which fits with all the other reports, doesn't it?

If you think it's impossible for someone to graduate early from the University of Texas, then give us some evidence for that. Otherwise, it's just your random assertion, versus the evidence the rest of the world acknowledges. The thing is, that if he had dropped out, someone who knew him at the time would have said so by now, wouldn't they? He was well-known then (politician father). You're inventing a conspiracy theory involving hundreds of people who have all, according to you, been happy to let him make a huge false claim - including a university which would not be happy with someone falsely claiming they graduated.

[anobserver2]

21. Like I said - another thread to come. This thread about the media is more than adequate proof.

This thread is more than adequate proof that there has been a material omission in the media for at least 17 years
about Jeb Bush's month and year of college graduation. That's all I am trying to say for now. It's like a stone wall in the media,

That's all I am trying to prove right now. It's important to see the continuous material omissions in the media.

IMO, someone in the media should have reported: "Jeb Bush refused to disclase a month and year of college graduation."

But they didn't.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. Like I said, you have a bizarre idea of how people talk about education

if you think they are 'omitting' his graduation year. People talk, all the time, about someone graduating without explicitly giving the year it was in.

You claim "Jeb Bush refused to disclase a month and year of college graduation". When did that happen? The media can't write that unless he did actually refuse. Who asked him for a month and year?

[cwydro]

24. I know; it's very odd what this OP seems to be trying to prove.

And the continual hints about proof to come "in another thread."

All very mysterious.

[anobserver2]

27. This is why I don't try to do too much - I know it's hard for some people to handle.

But, there are the links to the articles. No one mentions a month or year of graduation in 17 years for Jeb Bush.

To me, that is extremely odd. If you don't agree, that's OK.

I know others do see that as odd, too. It's not me that's odd. It's this odd and weird material omission in the media,
about a very basic question that goes unanswered for more than a decade: WHEN.

Maybe you are satisfied with the propaganda published in these articles. So be it.

However, I prefer the media either report WHEN or state: Jeb Bush refused to provide the answer to that question.

It seems like they each feed off each other in these articles, instead of trying to get any facts or reporting any facts. That's what I am saying.

Sorry if it is way too much for some people to handle.

[cwydro]

30. Another poster provided you with dates.

You didn't want to accept it.

No one cares a whole helluva lot about Jeb Bush anyway, so it's really a moot point.

[jberryhill]

33. This poster also believes Jeb's wife is an undocumented immigrant

This poster has a number of interesting theories

[anobserver2]

39. Thanks for your astute comments about all the links I posted.

Really appreciate your insights!

[anobserver2]

25. Uh, I cpmpletely disagree with you

Your assertion seems to be that it is "bizarre" for media to ask WHEN an alleged event happened.

I assert it is the media's JOB to ask WHEN.

So, either: the media did not do its job, and never asked him WHEN.

Or, the media did do its job and asked him WHEN, but - he refused to answer.

I can't speak for all the writers of these articles. You'd have to ask them what happened. Did they ask WHEN? Or not?

Keeping everything vague in the media, as these writers did, certainly keeps everyone quiet in the public, though.
No one in the public can claim they graduated that same month and same year from that same university program --
but hey! Jeb Bush's name is NOT in the program! And he was NOT in the department! And he was NOT at graduation!

That is why WHEN is one of the questions the media is supposed to ask.

It's PRETTY BASIC STUFF and a completely logical question when reporting a college degree -- especially when vetting a candidate.

(GW Bush, BTW, voluntarily released his Yale transcript to the public. But you don't see Jeb Bush releasing any college transcript.)

[CTyankee]

31. I retired 10 years ago but in the years preceding that I held down several jobs and

was required to put my academic record on my resume. One of my employers actually required job candidates to produce the actual degree that they photocopied and put in my file. No proof of the degree, no job.

It seems to me that even if you graduate a year or so earlier than 4 years you would still be considered as a graduate of that year. So that is what the degree would say.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. No, I'm saying that you don't often put such information in an article

because it is quite a boring detail. You say "I can't speak for all the writers of these articles", but that it what you're claiming to do, when you assert they didn't do their job.

You're obsessed with this, aren't you? http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026868438

Does this help? The UT alumni magazine, May 1976, saying he graduated in August 1974:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=PNIDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24

An alumni magazine is not exactly the kind of place to start making up things about graduating.

[anobserver2]

40. "August 1974" - huh. What if there's no graduation in August at that university?

Do you know if that university has any graduation in "August" of any year? I don't think they do. Do you know anyone else who ever graduated in a ceremony in "August" or has a graduation program from "August" of any year from that university?

Would it mean that perhaps there is a mistake in the alumni magazine you are reading? Is that possible? Just asking.

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. You're confusing date of conferral with commencement ceremony

Plenty of universities confer degrees at the end of a summer quarter or session, even if they only hold formal graduation ceremonies (commencement) at the end of the Fall and Spring semesters.

Indeed, if somebody is following an accelerated program in order to finish early, it's not at all surprising that they would have a summer session conferral date, since they'd be taking many summer classes to complete their degree. Finally, it's not even slightly implausible that somebody would be able to finish a business degree in 2 1/2 years in the 70's or otherwise. Those courses almost always fill and are offered often. I'd be more skeptical of somebody finishing an English degree early due to limited offerings.

I'd wager that you've never worked in a university and don't have much sense of how they operate, logistically. Your claims throughout this thread suggest passing knowledge at best.

[CTyankee]

47. I went back to finish at a school that had an accelerated and got my actual degree in

December. However, I wanted to participitate in an actual ceremony so I "walked" with the May grads. I just wanted the experience (at long last).

I had partial BA and BFA degrees so I talked to the academic office and they asked if I wanted the fastest way out and I said yes. So I got a Bachelor's in General Studies and they told me to put on my resume "with a concentration in Fine Arts and Communications).

[alcibiades_mystery]

50. Yup, many people do the same

(Winter graduations tend to be smaller - a lot of folks want the big deal Spring graduation ceremony).

The logistics, from the University's point of view, are clear: you file for degree conferral for the session (quarter, semester, summer session) during which you complete your degree requirements. That's the actual degree-granting mechanism, like the county clerk issuing a marriage license is the actual marriage-certifying mechanism. The graduation ceremony need not be linked with the conferral date, just as you don't have to have your wedding ceremony on the same day that you get your marriage certified.

The OP seems to be completely confusing these separate events: conferral and commencement ceremony. If UT offered summer classes in 1974, then it's completely plausible to have an August 1974 conferral date, even if the school held no graduation ceremonies for the Summer session graduates. Most would be expected to "walk" in the Winter ceremony or even the following Spring. Some schools will even let you walk in the PREVIOUS Spring ceremony if your remaining requirements fall below a specific threshold that you're sure to satisfy in the summer courses.

Hell, most schools don't even give you your actual diploma at the Spring ceremonies: you get an empty case or a letter, and your diploma arrives in the mail weeks later.

[CTyankee]

53. Yes I had to wait many months before getting the degree (I actually drove to the school's office

to pick it up.)

My son walked at his commencement at Columbia because graduation day is such an event, particularly in the Ivy League. He had one more course and was enrolled in it for the summer so they let him participate in the commencement. He went on to law school and it was all good...

[anobserver2]

56. completely disagree with you on all your major points

I've worked in higher ed and taught in higher ed. I know a little bit about higher ed. I've also researched this matter with respect to the program Jeb Bush allegedly graduated from.

Hint: it wasn't a "business" degree program as you erroneously claim. It was "Latin American Studies."

You have to know how the specific program is administered, by the way.

And, you as a student have to be capable of doing the work. Some students drop out because they are not capable.

Jeb Bush has made the interesting claim that he would never want to be in the senate, because he would feel like a
"tiger in a cage."

Well, the senate chamber is a smallish space, with 100 or so people, much like a university lecture hall. If you can't handle
a lot of debating and lecturing in the senate, I am not sure how eager you would be to spend years in a university.

Some people learn differently.

[alcibiades_mystery]

62. Questions

1) Do you know the difference between conferral and commencement? I don't think you do.

2) Were there summer session courses at UT in 1974? Yes or no?

3) Could you file for conferral during the summer at UT in 1974? Yes or no?

4) What about a Latin America Studies program would prevent him from finishing in 2 1/2 years? Be specific.

Your discussion about the Senate is bizarre and irrelevant.

[muriel_volestrangler]

58. Lying in the alumni magazine, just 2 years later, would have been ridiculous

Bush's employers put a direct claim in the magazine he graduated 2 years before that issue was published, because they wanted him to be an example of them employing UT graduates. The magazine would have been read by many people who would have known if he had dropped out, both alumni and staff.

You think the people who are proving you wrong in this thread are 'offended' - we're not. We're just trying to head of a silly wild goose chase that gets DU associated with a conspiracy theory that doesn't have any evidence for it. All you're actually saying is "I don't believe he graduated", despite all the evidence that he did.

[anobserver2]

91. Re: "Bush's employers put a direct claim in the magazine" - you mean: his dad's friends, don't you?

Jeb Bush's "employers" were friends of his family -- but I notice the alumni magazine omits telling you that. However, it is cited many other places, including this news article:

http://www.sptimes.com/State/92098/Make_The_Money_and_Ru.html

Make the Money and Run

Jeb Bush followed the family game plan: Earn your fortune, then run for public office. A vast network of deals made it possible.

By ALECIA SWASY
and ROBERT TRIGAUX

© St. Petersburg Times, published September 20, 1998


"Still, his earliest jobs came from friends of the family. After earning his degree in Latin American studies at the University of Texas, Jeb Bush was hired in 1974 by Texas Commerce Bank. The Houston institution was founded by the family of James A. Baker III, a pal of George Bush who would later run his presidential campaign and serve as U.S. treasury secretary and then secretary of state.

In 1977, Texas Commerce sent 24-year-old Bush to open a branch in oil-rich Venezuela. When the bank's top executives visited, they brought along bank director Lady Bird Johnson who arranged a visit with Venezuela's president.

Bush acknowledges he was a lousy banker. "I wasn't real good at collecting loans," he said. So it was an easy decision to quit banking and return to the states in the spring of 1979 to help his father campaign for president. "

Do you think maybe the alumni magazine should have disclosed that his "employer" was actually a family friend?

[anobserver2]

92. PS re cited news article excerpted above

Also note: again, no month nor year mentioned for an alleged degree from UT in the above article:

his degree in Latin American studies at the University of Texas

In short: the media omitted the month/year of his alleged degree again!

This was back in Sept 1998, too. The stonewalling of the media has been going on a LONG time...

[muriel_volestrangler]

93. You really don't understand how normal people talk, do you?

When they mention a degree, they do not feel bound to find out a month or a year for it, and, even if they know that, they don't think they have to mention it.

I think that's your problem - you can't really imagine writing something so that people want to read it. You can only see it as a list of facts that has to be included for someone to check up on decades later.

From your post before that:

"Do you think maybe the alumni magazine should have disclosed that his "employer" was actually a family friend?"

No. Why on earth would they? It's an ad in the magazine saying "we employ these alumni, and we're proud of it". It's to encourage alumni to apply for jobs there, and give them confidence they'll get a good career. Do you really think that it's up to a magazine editor to vet the people featured in an ad for how well they know the head of the company they work for? You assume all the people in the ad are on good terms with the company anyway, otherwise they wouldn't have been put in the ad.

The point is that if your idea that Bush didn't get a degree were true, then Bush wouldn't have agreed to his employers publishing it in the place where all the people who'd know it was a lie would see it. You've never been able to point to anyone who was at Austin saying that Bush didn't graduate. We know that he's been saying it for 40 years, right in front of the exact people who would know, and no one has ever said "that's not true".

All that's happening is you saying "I'm going to ignore the standard evidence we have that he graduated, say 'what if he didn't?' and then start threads on DU trying to make it look as if I've shown something". This thread is a massive waste of everyone's time. It belongs in Creative Speculation, though it may be too trivial for that.

[anobserver2]

94. I didn't read your post and here's why

It's pretty amazing that you could so quickly find (1) on google books, (2) in an alumni magazine, (3) an advertisement, which is (4) materially false (since it makes no mention of the relationship between that bank and Jeb Bush's family and pretends to be an arm's length employer), and tell me this fake ad proves something. I won't say what I think it proves about you and your posts against me whenever I post anything remotely negatively about Jeb Bush or the Bushes. It is rather remarkable this depth of knowledge you have about a fake ad in an alumni magazine on google books; that's all I will say.

[anobserver2]

95. PS Do you want to explain your incredible reseach skills?

Do you want to share with the forum your incredible research skills of knowing to go to a "May 1976" alumni magazine's fake ad in google books? Just wondering how you found it! Would you share your amazing research skills with everyone? Because you seem to spend a heck of a lot time defending Jeb Bush and the Bush family, non-stop, on this Democratic Underground forum.

And whatever a fake print ad says in an alumni magazine is really of no value to the conversation here -- which concerns news articles, and other media, readily available to the public, which is distributing misinformation/representing false facts and is propaganda. BY contrast, fake ads, in an alumni magazine, are a different type of issue than what I am posting about in my original post.

[muriel_volestrangler]

96. The magazine is on page 2 of Google results for "jeb" "bush" "graduated" "1974" "texas"

It's pretty amazing you hadn't found it for yourself, since this has been bugging you for months.

No, it's not 'materially false'. They employed him. They employed the other people in the ad. That's what it says.

I found out where I replied to you before - when I pointed out you had brought a piece from one of America's most notorious racists to DU that was attacking Columba Bush for not speaking English to the standard Steve Sailer required: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026964904#post116

And you called DUers who complained about that 'knuckleheads'.

I'd forgotten that; you don't get the benefit of the doubt any more. You stoop to using racist articles. Fuck knows what your purpose on DU is, but it's evil.

[anobserver2]

97. I posted links to 9 articles -- and not one reported "1974" as a year of graduation

Thanks for all your insightful comments and this and all the Jeb Bush threads you're on! Really appreciate your kind words of praise and encouragement!

[Maeve]

65. My husband was graduated from Ohio State in August of 1977

So yeah, it happens. With a full ceremony.

[NobodyHere]

81. I finished a 4 year degree in 30 months

Your premise here is false.

[anobserver2]

82. I have repeatedly said on this thread you can now finish a 4-yr degree in 1-yr...

...So - your accusation against me is false.

[anobserver2]

38. I think journalists writing about a candiate for governor or president should ask WHEN, yes.

I think it extremely bizarre that you and some others do not think "WHEN" is an appropriate question for a journalist to ask.
EXTREMELY bizarre.

[Orangepeel]

48. If they asked, the answer given would be "1974"

The media not giving a year isn't evidence of anything. Let's assume for the sake of argument that your theory is correct and Jeb really did drop out of school without graduating. The story that he would have made up about graduating included a year --1974. It is in the Encyclopedia. It is in the Alumi mag linked in this thread. Even if that year was false, it wasn't hidden.

But then, I don't think there is necessarily anything fishy about Jeb's story. People do graduate early and they do graduate in August. It isn't enough, in my opinion, to ask, "but what if the program they are in didn't let them?" One would need to provide some evidence that the program didn't allow it. Because frankly, what Jeb is claiming doesn't seem that strange.

[anobserver2]

60. The links I posted show stonewalling, when you can't get a month/year of graduation in 17 years

Re: "One would need to provide some evidence that the program didn't allow it. Because frankly, what Jeb is claiming doesn't seem that strange."

For many years I thought the way you did: after reading all this propaganda, I thought: well, that's not odd that a person could graduate in "2" or "2-1'2" or "less than 3" years.

But I did always find it odd that the numbers keep changing -- and that there is always a material omission of month and year of graduation as claimed by Jeb Bush.

What really changed my mind about this whole matter was a 2015 article in the Boston Globe. Once i read that article, I realized: Jeb Bush is probably a college drop-out.

Because what I had always erroneously assumed was this: Gee, Jeb Bush must have taken A LOT of Advanced Placemnt (AP) courses in his private high school in order to go so quickly through that 4-year degree program at UT.

But the Boston Globe reporter went poking around that private school community and discovered, and reported, that Jeb Bush was on the verge of being expelled from that private school for his persistent low grades. Jeb Bush confirmed this in the article.

This was shocking. It was the first time the media have ever reported this, and, Jeb Bush is in the article confirming it.

At that point I realized: he was bringing NO AP college credits with him into UT. He barely made it through high school.

Without AP credits, and without any college credits from anywhere else -- and learning more about this program and UT -- he had to be there until June 1975 to graduate is what I concluded. He wasn't. I concluded, based on all I learned: he dropped out -- in Jan 1974.

Sure would be nice if all those people who work so hard to get a degree knew this. But, the media is not asking him for a month and year of graduation. We just get a lot of propaganda, as shown in these 9 links over 17 years.

That is what it seems to me. The media may be prevented from asking him, too. One of the authors, Hannah Rosin, expressed frustration that he would not answer her questions at all as I recall. Another article in that bunch I posted above says the Bushes would not comment.

So, it seems to me there is stonewalling from Jeb Bush and his family going on with respect to the details of this college graduation issue.

But again, my point is: the media should be reporting that he will not answer is that is the situation -- not all this mumbo-jumbo they reported instead which I put in bold, while materially omitting any month and year of alleged graduation.

[anobserver2]

41. A big thank you to those who recommended this thread

It's amazing to me that some people here are really offended that I am suggesting in the course of vetting a candidate for governor or president, the media's job is to ask WHEN an alleged event happened.

No wonder we had Jeb Bush for governor of Florida for two terms. I guess people get the media they deserve.

By the way -- one of the journalists, on the above list, correctly noted that Florida journalists were "meek as mice" to Jeb Bush throughout his two terms as governor. This phrase "meek as mice" appears in a book that author wrote about Jeb Bush (the author was a reporter for the Palm Beach Post, SV Date).

But if the public is even MEEKER than mice, my gosh -- what chance do we have?

[CTyankee]

46. I don't get it either. Of course, we're not Bushes and he is and they are powerful.

I would think that lying on your resume is worse than not graduating. AFter all, you can say "studied at" on your resume and let the press or anyone else ask if that means you got a degree from where you studied. And you only get a "magna cum laude" (or any of the "laudes&quot if you graduated, as it is on your actual degree. So "attended" or "studied" would sound to me like the job candidate was fudging the resume.

It would piss me off since I went back to school to finish an undergrad degree and then go on and get a Master's so I could advance myself professionally. It wasn't easy. I did it while working full time.

[Rex]

83. Don't feel bad, if you think some here are defending Bush etc.. they are.

They have not one ounce of shame in their body and have a pattern of being republican sympathizers. Don't waste your time on them is my advice.

[anobserver2]

84. Thanks; I appreciate your post.

I don't mind answering questions though, or seeing how people think of this issue, or reading why they are confused.

But, some people here -- MUCH more so than other forums (and I am thinking specifically of GOP forums I have read) -- sound FAR MORE SYMPATHETIC to Jeb Bush than those GOP forum posters will EVER be!!! LOL!

[Rex]

85. I hear that.

Seen it over the years and my only guess is that they will never have the conviction to say what they really feel on Dem sites, too scared of getting banned after all this time. However, it does not stop them from showing how much they are apologists for the GOP. They do it with glee, but their act wasn't clever last year or 10 years ago.

[starroute]

43. Here's one that says he graduated in 1973

And another that also dates his marriage to that year. (On edit: Though Wikipedia gives that date as February 23, 1974.)

I doubt he was actually a drop-out, but it does seem possible that his father and James Baker may have arranged a few shortcuts to get him that degree. The history of both with the University of Texas is long and often unsavory.

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/06/12/jeb-bushs-tangled-past/

Following graduation from the University of Texas at Austin in Latin American Studies in 1973, Jeb Bush went to work with the international division of the Texas Commerce Bank. As the St. Petersburg Times reported, an executive at the bank, James A. Baker III, was a close friend of Jeb’s father and would later run George H.W. Bush’s presidential campaign before becoming the Secretary of the Treasury under Ronald Reagan and Secretary of State under Bush Sr.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30502738

Born on 11 February 1953 in Midland, Texas, Mr Bush graduated from the University of Texas with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Latin American Studies.

In 1973, he married his Mexican wife Columba Garnica Gallo. The couple have three children.

[PatrickforO]

51. There's something wrong with this, because he just doesn't seem

that intelligent. Or else he can't think on his feet very well.

Both of which would disqualify him from the presidency in my book.

[COLGATE4]

55. Reads like something from over at F.R. nt

[Cal Carpenter]

59. News articles don't seem to mention the month, or even year, of other candidates

graduations either.

Just because I'm procrastinating, I actually spent a few minutes googling news articles about other candidates (both D & R) that include brief bios like the ones you are using as examples.

NONE of them mention the graduation month. Not a one. A few mention a year. Usually it is something like 'after graduating from U of XXX, Candidate A went on to blah blah blah'.

There are plenty of reasons to harsh on Jebbie, but this is a stretch. A big time-wasting stretch.



eta: shit, I remember the year I graduated, but I can't even tell you for sure if it was April or May...

[anobserver2]

71. Re other candidates

All of the GOP candidates have attempted or completed graduate level degrees - which, with the exception of Rand Paul, means they have an undergraduate degree. (Paul has an advanced degree without an undergraduate degree.)

The only three GOP candidates claiming only an undergraduate degree are Jeb Bush Donald Trump, and JOhn Kaisich.

Out of that group of three, the media has claimed only Jeb Bush received his 4-year degree in less than 4 years.

Trump went 2 years to Fordham and then 2 years at Wharton. Kaisich went 4 years to Ohio State.

(And GOP Gov Scott Walker disclosed he himself is a college drop-out. He dropped out of the race last year.)

So, again, only Jeb Bush, claims the media, finished a 4-year degree in less than 4 years. NO other candidate is touted as such by the media.

[Cal Carpenter]

73. What?

Why would the media tout other candidates as such (to use your words) if it wasn't true? No other candidate claims to have graduated early so why would the media 'tout' them as such? I don't understand your argument at all, and now you've changed your allegation from the OP to something else (which, frankly, makes even less sense) without addressing the point I made at all.

I was addressing your insistence that the media is omitting information about Jeb and the year he graduated. What I found, rather quickly, is that very few news articles about any of the candidates mention their graduation year. All those links you provide in your OP prove nothing - they are typical of a brief, in-article bio of a candidate. Maybe a mention of the alma mater or the subject they studied, but nothing more.

You are very, very focused on this one thing that isn't even really an anomaly. I don't understand that. I don't want to understand that. There are way more important things to worry about, imo, and way more important and relevant examples of the Bush family's power and influence over the media and other industries than this. His 1974 graduation with a BA in Latin American Studies from University of Texas is as verifiable on the internet as any other person's degree. It happens - plenty of people take less than 4 years to finish, others take more. If Jeb finished college early, great. If not, it doesn't really fucking matter in the grand scheme of things. You're treating this like some smoking gun that's gonna bring down the Bush family. I find it very odd but, as I said in my earlier post, I was just procrastinating. I'm not spending any more time on this, so please carry on without me.

[librechik]

61. because BushLies (™) is a blue chip corporation too big to fail. N/t

[403Forbidden]

66. This is a potential BOMBSHELL revelation that needs to be addressed in the mainstream media...

...it is shocking that it has not yet been investigated thoroughly. Thank you for you investigative efforts

[anobserver2]

72. I feel the same way for two reasons

First of all, no one's reply on this thread mentions the fact that REAL geniuses - a Bill Gates let's say -- ever did what the media in these 9 links claims Jeb Bush did: "squeeze" a 4-year degree into "2" or "2-1'2" or "less than 3" years.

Bill Gates and others who are real geniuses DROPPED OUT of college. Why? Because of the following:

There are two broad systems on which universities are now operating on: (1) time-based (the Carnegie unit, which I previously mentioned on this thread but no one picked up on), and (2) competency-based (which is what the WSJ article I linked to is all about).

In a time-based system, it doesn't matter if you are Bill Gates -- a 4-year degree can still take you: 4 years to complete, because
courses are not offered in the summer, you have no AP credits, whatever.

You have to spend the time. So, a Bill Gates no longer wants to spend the time; he decides he is wasting his time by staying at college for a degree, so, he drops out.

But in a different system - a competency-based system -- it matters greatly if you are a Bill Gates, because then you just keep taking tests and test out of courses.

So, you, the new Bill Gates in a competency based college program -- not a time-measured based program -- can test out. You don't need to drop out.

You can "race through" or "blaze through" or whatever in "2" or "2-1/2" or "less than 3" years.


But Bill Gates' college program was not on that system - nor was Jeb Bush's college program.

So, Bill Gates dropped out.

Yet, according to these 9 media links I posted: the media wants to convince me that Jeb Bush is smarter than a Bill Gates.
because Jeb Bush, also on a time-based system in college, somehow "beat" the system -- and is smarter than Bill Gates.

Jeb Bush is not smarter than Bill Gates is my belief.

The only way Jeb Bush could have gotten out earlier than 4 years is if he had a whole lot of AP credits or transferred college credits.
He had no AP classes is what it sounds like from that Boston Globe article. And he went to no other college.

And since UT is on the Carnegie time-based system, Jeb Bush is not blazing or racing through; he has to spend 4 years to earn this degree -- or drop out. Just as Bill Gates eventually decided to do.

There is a lot that can be discussed with this matter. But recognizing that a Bill Gates drops out of a time-based system in college, while a Jeb Bush can somehow "squeeze" that 4-year degree into "2" years, is an issue never mentioned in the media.

It should be discussed at length.

[Igel]

67. A few sources.

Google is your friend. After that, there's understanding inference versus observation.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fl-gov-bush/
From 1998. Finished coursework in 2 1/2 years, graduated 1974, started Sept. 1971.
So he'd have finished his coursework in fall semester 1973.

It's not unreasonable to think he graduated in fall 1973, but often fall completion leads to spring conferral. There's also the possibility that he did more than just coursework, or did coursework beyond what was required to graduate.


http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/candidates/jeb-bush
More recent, same info.


Note that I finished my coursework for my bachelor's in 1/82. My degree was conferred in June '82.

Knew a student who finished her coursework in 6/81. Degree was conferred 6/82. She didn't take her junior year abroad, she took an additional year abroad.

I finished my coursework for my masters in fall '90. I finished my thesis in 7/91. Degree was conferred 8/91.

I finished my coursework for my PhD in Dec. '96. To my department's great irritation, I advanced to candidacy in 1/2001. During those extra years mostly I took additional coursework that wasn't required for my degree, didn't count towards my degree, but which I thought would be damned useful. (Never graduated with the PhD. My department was too greatly irritated.)

I'd also point out that I know that Obama graduated from Harvard law. Graduated something cum laude. Went to Columbia via Occidental. No clue what year he graduated or transferred. The year is often omitted for Obama, too. But we don't notice that because we just don't. For Obama, what's important is Harvard law, cum laude; Columbia, poli-sci.

For JE Bush, what's important is the cum laude and 2 1/2 years' coursework. Graduation in 1973 or '74, graduation in '90 or '93 or whenever, not a big deal after the first couple of mentions. For Bush III, that stopped back in the '90s. For Obama, back in 2007 or 2008.

[aikoaiko]

74. It's a simple thing to verify with the school.

Degree earned and conferral date are not FERPA protected.

[anobserver2]

76. Some people migh disagree with you on that

Some people might "creatively speculate" that since Jeb Bush' father was CIA DIrector in 1975, there
was some hanky-panky going on to conceal what is in fact a drop-out status for Jeb Bush; I'm just saying:
some people might conclude that.

I think: You need to look more closely at the facts as to how the university is operating,
how the department is operating, and, what Jeb Bush himself is saying. And what the media has reported for what, 17 years now?
You need more knowledge than the average Armchair Joe.

I think that's how you figure this one out. (And, I do conclude, after my research: Jeb Bush is a college drop-out.)

Someone on this thread wrote something like that drop-out status would be impossible without collusion by hundreds of people. I disagree. Not necessary for hundreds to participate in this type of fraud. IMO, degree fraud happens more than people realize.

But, it should not be happening when a candidate is running for president; that is particularly disturbing to me. A college degree is not necessary to be president. And, a liar in the White House we do not need. No thanks to that. Just my two cents.

[KamaAina]

78. "Jeb Bush passed on Yale"?

More likely Yale passed on him. We toughened our standards for legacy admissions the same year his big brother graduated. Coincidence? I think not. Legacies still get in, of course, but now they have to prove they have something on the ball while they're at Andover or wherever.

[anobserver2]

79. FYI Boston Globe article disclosing Jeb terrible academic record, confirmed by him

Here is the 2015 Boston Globe article I mentioned on this thread, which completely changed my own mind about Jeb Bush's actual final status at the University of Texas -- as I realized this guy was not bringing any AP college credits with him from high school into UT:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2015/02/01/tumultuous-four-years-phillips-academy-helped-shape-jeb-bush/q6ccyHNOtP1n6kqDokMBfK/story.html


Jeb Bush shaped by troubled Phillips Academy years
Possible presidential candidate had tumultuous four years at Andover school

Excerpt:

" ...Meanwhile, his grades were so poor that he was in danger of being expelled, which would have been a huge embarrassment to his father, a member of Congress and of the school’s board of trustees.

Jeb Bush, in an interview for this story, recalled it as one of the most difficult times of his life, while acknowledging that he made it harder by initially breaking a series of rules. "I drank alcohol and I smoked marijuana when I was at Andover," Bush said, both of which could have led to expulsion. ...

Bush had enough problems trying to pass his courses. ...The student who once nearly flunked out said he made the honor roll in the final trimester of his senior year. ... He went instead to the University of Texas in Austin, majored in Latin American studies, graduated in an unusually speedy 2½ years, and married Columba. ..."

Almost forgot this bizarre "2-1/2 year" UT claim was mentioned in this article, too -- and Bush was interviewed for this article!!!

[anobserver2]

80. After reading this article I realized: there is no way Jeb Bush entered UT with AP credits

And that begs the question: how did you graduate UT in an "unusually speedy" 2-1/2 years? (And what month and year did you graduate UT?) Especially if the college says that 4-year degree actually requires: "4 years" in its program?

Jeb Bush has never answered these questions.

[Rex]

86. His claim sounds bogus. I bet he washed out and had the Bush PR team cover it up.

Then again what is NOT bogus when it comes to the Bush brood?

[anobserver2]

88. I agree with your assessment for many numerous and various reasons

Here's what some people may also be wondering about:

Let's say Jeb Bush was a major in something else, oh, I don't know, European History. And, he was bored out of his mind the first two years of college, decided not to continue (when finally the coursework was starting to delve deep into his major), so he dropped out.

Where do you predict Jeb Bush would have then lived for several years? Caracas, Venezuela? As he and his young wife and two kids at the time did? I predict it would have been a different locale, had he had a different major such as European History: Europe would have been his future abode. Because: then he might learn something about what he was supposed to have learned via his major in college -- which he didn't actually learn in college, because he dropped out of college.

And whose dime was paying for this study abroad - immersion learning experience - for him and his family for several years? Well, if he was actually working for the CIA, with a bank as a cover story, that means: the taxpayer was footing his "college" bill abroad.

College students today are being clobbered by college debt. They have to delay starting their lives.

Does Jeb Bush want to pay for immersion experiences abroad for students -- those who would much rather drop out of college, get married, start having kids,as now they would be like he was perhaps: secure in the knowledge the taxpayer will pick up the bill for travel and living expenses for three years or so wherever in the globe that the student's abandoned college major may take the student?

That's the kind of question I would like to ask Jeb Bush: Who really paid for your college experiences? The taxpayer? Because you sure didn't hang around UT long enough to learn anything about Latin American Studies in Texas is my belief, based on what I learned from your Latin American Studies department there.

[Ilsa]

89. I'm like, "Big effin deal" on the < 3 years remarks.

I have a degree that you can't fast track. Nursing courses, for example, are not always available on demand, especially if clinical work is involved. Counselors discourage high course loads in some degrees because of the amount of material covered.

Geez, he didn't get a degree in astrophysics, theoretical math, teaching special education, or get licensed to treat people's or animals' bodies with drugs or procedures. It's a Latin American Studies degree.

[anobserver2]

90. I disagree with you

Re: "It's a Latin American Studies degree."

I think there is something very wrong in our country if a presidential candidate like Scott Walker, who dropped out, has to disclose
he has no college degree because: he actually dropped out; but, another presidential candidate, Jeb Bush, who may have the same drop-out status, simply lies in every official bio ever published about him that he, Jeb Bush, has a degree.

Is that America? You just lie, lie, lie and engage in fraud? While taking money from taxpayers pretending to be a public servant?

I think Scott Walker would have liked to know that; as would this generation's college grads who are saddled with debt because they stuck it out -- instead of taking the "drop-out and lie forever" route.

But you're right - some people don't care. I care. I think others care. But clearly you don't., Whatever.

By the way, I don't even think Jeb Bush actually qualified for a high school diploma. If his private school was on a "trimester" system,
as stated in that Boston Globe article, and he was there for 3 semesters per year for 4 years -- well, it sounds like he failed eleven of those twelve trimesters, and only passed the last one.

However, with his father GH Bush on the Board of Trustees at that private school, Jeb Bush was getting a high school diploma no matter what.

Would FL voters have voted for Jeb Bush as FL governor in 1998 and 2002 if they had known he was a high school drop-out? Or a college drop-out? Elections in FL are pretty close. What would it have meant in 2000 if there was no Jeb Bush in the governor's office in Tallahassee?

Those questions are not of interest to you, I will guess. But history is interesting to me. History would be different if candidates were actually vetted, and if standards were actually met in private schools and higher ed. Too often those standards are ignored because public corruption is a far more powerful force. And -- you don't care? Again: Whatever.

Thank G-d, there are plenty of GOP voters fed up with the Bush dynasty. Thank G-d for that!

[Ilsa]

105. You make a lot of assumptions about what I think.

I don't know if JEB dropped out or not. Do I think it's important? Definitely. If he's living fraudulently, the media needs to nail him on it. His brother won his first governor's race against Ann Richards in part because her endorsement of a Railroad Commission candidate who had fraudulently claimed that she had a degree from UT. Her false claim, IMO, helped create derision towards Richards who had done well as governor. Claiming education and completion fraudulently is a BFD.

I was merely questioning the media's obsession with him finishing in less than three years. My point is that he probably has average or slightly higher mental capabilities. He chose a less risky degree program and was able to finish it faster than, say, an accounting degree or engineering degree. Furthermore, I suspect he probably received college credit for some first semester academic classes (deserved or not) because he went to an elite prep school.

Don't ever assume that I'm unconcerned with the cost of higher education, and the debt most students must incur to complete one degree. Personally, I think the first four years of college should be free public education. I think many advanced degree programs should be either free or have special financing programs ("work here to get triple-credit payoff", etc) instead of the current student loan programs, which are a rip-off for many people.

The ability for the general public to receive advanced education makes the difference in having a qualified workforce, and that affects us all.

My attitude is this: so what that he got a LASP degree. I'm unimpressed with that "accomplishment" if it did indeed happen. I also think his mental faculties have worsened over the decades. Probably did too much blow with W.

[onenote]

98. Having read through this entire thread

I'm struck mostly by how similar the OP's tactics are to the tactics used by the hard core birthers (e.g., birth announcement published in newspaper--planted by relatives; graduation announcement in alumni magazine -- planted by friends of the family).

More sad crap on DU.

[anobserver2]

99. What "tactics" - ? And, you're welcome.

I posted nine links spanning seventeen years, aimed at the general public, all of which materially omit any year and month offered to journalists by Jeb Bush for a college graduation date.

I asked: What year and month does he tell them?

And, if none: I suggested they should be reporting: no year and no month was disclosed by Jeb Bush for graduation when asked about it (if asked about it).

Is it odd what's happening in the media on this issue? I think so.

You're welcome.

[403Forbidden]

100. This is a hard-hitting expose of possible cronyism and fraudulent misrepresentations...

...there's nothing sad about it.

[liberal N proud]

101. Maybe he is listed as Attended

The designation for students who attended 1 or more years but never received a degree.

[anobserver2]

102. And a question for those paying attention: Who is paying the bills for these newlyweds?

I'll bet every newlywed couple in America would like to know how to live rent-free and without having to pay bills for at least six months after getting married.

Jeb Bush married in Feb 1974. But, according to an ad in an alumni magazine, didn't start a job until "Sept 1974."

Who's paying the bills for him and his young wife from Feb-Aug 1974? Jeb Bush claimed in a Sept 1998 article he was on his own after college, and that his dad only paid tuition.

Is Columba Bush out there working for six months to support her husband while he's in college? Because it's a funny thing; I don't ever recall Jeb Bush once ever claiming to be a "married college student." As I recall, he always claimed he first graduated, then he married,

A conservative encyclopedia puts his graduation date from college at "Dec 1973" -- I'm seeing that same info here -- first graduated, then married:

http://www.infoplease.com/biography/var/jebbush.html

Jeb Bush met his wife, Columba, while teaching English in Leon, Guanajato, Mexico in 1971. (Columba was born in Leon in 1954.) The two were were married on 23 February 1974, shortly after Bush graduated from the University of Texas with a degree in Latin American Affairs

and here:

http://www.conservapedia.com/Jeb_Bush

Personal life

Bush met his wife, Columba, while teaching English as part of a university exchange program in Leon, Guanajato, Mexico in 1971. Columba was born in Leon in 1954. The two were married on February 23, 1974, shortly after Bush graduated from the University of Texas with a degree in Latin American Affairs.

------

So, who's paying the bills from Feb 1974-Sept 1974 -- whether you want to say he already graduated (prior to "Feb 1974" as these two above sources claim) or not graduated yet (not until "August" 1974) ?

Just wondering. Sure would be great if every newlywed couple could have their first six months of married life rent/mortgage/bills all paid for! Wonder how Jeb Bush did it...

[Mike Nelson]

104. Unless George Sr. was angry with Jeb! at the time...

...he most certainly graduated with honors.

[anobserver2]

109. "1973" is the official college graduation year in this current gov Jeb Bush bio on this FL link

http://www.museumoffloridahistory.com/resources/collections/governors/about.cfm?id=50

To all: see my previous post, which is on this same topic, if you are interested in my analysis of this official public record.

[403Forbidden]

110. This newly discovered evidence, along with your analysis, needs widespread dissemination...

... have you contacted major news outlets about this?

[anobserver2]

111. It would be good if the FBI would arrest Jeb Bush for this crime, if I am correct

Perhaps -- and I certainly don't know -- Jeb Bush had to fill out an application to work for the CIA, and lied on the application to the government that he had a college degree (when in fact he did not).

I think Jeb Bush was on the CIA payroll while in Venezuela, and that is why he did not release any tax returns for those years. I could be wrong, but I could be correct.

If the FBI investigated, then they would probably ask the university -- instead, the FBI should ask questions of the Latin American Studies Department -- about Jeb Bush at UT. And, the university administrators would then: lie their heads off to the FBI, is what I truly believe.

But if the FBI asked the Latin American Studies Department some questions, without even mentioning Jeb Bush, I think the FBI would get a very different set of answers than what the top mops at the university claim.

And then, the FBI would know: Jeb Bush is in fact a college drop-out because he was not there for 4 years for this 4-year degree (and, Jeb Bush had no AP credits and no transfer credits from another college). And, the FBI would know: those university administrators in the other UT office are a bunch of liars.

If the FBI then arrested Jeb Bush for a false application to the government for CIA work, and announced it to the press in a press release, I think the press would of course report this story.

But for the "watchdog" press to actually vet a candidate named Bush? I am not so sure our watchdog press is anything more than a bunch of lapdogs when it comes to vetting a presidential candidate named Bush.

Also, I don't think the press realizes how voters do desire facts about candidates -- yet, I think voters very much want to know who they can trust before they vote. I think it all comes down to that one issue every time: trust.

Jeb Bush should not be running for office, in my opinion. By my count, he's already stolen at least two elections, by fraudulently running as a college grad in the 1998 and 2002 FL gov races. He is not fit to take any oath of office due to his lies about many matters -- including this non-existent college degree. (And, I believe he well knows he is a fraud. I believe his parents know it, too.)

Just my two cents.

[anobserver2]

112. IMO: There is no way Jeb Bush ever graduated from UT

Last edited Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:41 PM - Edit history (8)

I have thought a lot about this thread since posting it. (Today I added more to the list I originally posted, showing more media omitting any month/year of an alleged college graduation date for Jeb Bush.)

I appreciate the responses to this thread, including those who played Devil's Advocate -- but I'm convinced Jeb Bush never graduated at all from UT.

My reasoning goes like this:

1) Ever since the Feb 2015 Boston Globe article disclosing Jeb Bush's failing high school career at a private high school, and repeating the 9th grade, it was clear to me: Jeb Bush was not a scholar taking Advanced Placement courses in high school.

Had his father not been on the Board of Trustees at that school, and had Jeb's last name not been Bush. I am sure that school would have expelled Jeb Bush for low grades, just as the article claims almost happened. (By the way, I saw an article claiming Jeb Bush started kindergarten a year early, so when he repeated 9th grade at his private school, he was now with his peer group - not ahead of others.)

I give credit to the Boston Globe reporter for at least noticing that an alleged "2-1/2" years at UT is "unusually speedy" for a bachelor's degree. I wish the reporter would have then asked Jeb Bush: "Gee, how did you accomplish that, since your high school grades were so dreadful?" The Boston Globe article, published in Feb 2015, was the first time I realized: Jeb Bush did not graduate early from UT if he was such a failure in high school -- and had no AP credits; Jeb Bush probably dropped out of UT after "2-1/2" years.


2) A 4-year Bachelors Degree in the 1970's does not include online options. You have to recognize the type of system the university is on, which at UT, even now, is the Carnegie unit of measurement -- a time-based system, as I tried to explain on this thread.

You can't "squeeze" or "breeze" or "race" or "blaze" through a time-based system; the system requires a certain amount of time in class for each credit hour. None of the journalists whose articles I linked to in my original post seemed to have any understanding or knowledge of the existence of what it means when a university is on a time-based system; nor did they ask or investigate or try to discover how earning credit hours in such a system actually works. It is not at all the same as a "competency" based-system where you can indeed test out of courses, and skip the class time, and literally, squeeze/breeze/blaze/or race through.

Jeb Bush's days at UT were on a time-based system -- and the fact is, he did not attend UT a long enough time to earn a 4-year degree.

3) Some people on this thread seemed to blindly and erroneously assume that obtaining a 4-yr bachelor's degree is just like getting a doctorate (it's not), or that "intelligence" or "motivation" will somehow speed up a time-based system. It doesn't and it won't. As I tried to explain, in this type of system you and Bill Gates will both take a minimum of 4 years to earn a 4-year degree (if neither of you has AP class credits or college transfer credits). And if Bill Gates decides he has better things to do with his time, then, Gates drops out of college. That is what I believe Jeb Bush did - dropped out. Bush wanted to get married in Feb 1974. And, he did. Bush married before he was at UT long enough to get a 4-year degree -- because to get a 4-year degree, he would have had to be there until June 1975, but, he wasn't.

4) Quibbling over a "1973" or "1974" alleged graduation date or course completion or degree ceremony date is irrelevant; Bush was not at UT until the end of what would have been his 4-year program: June 1975 -- again, that's the earliest date he could have gotten a bachelor's in this program. (Why? Because: Bush had no AP credits. Bush had no other college credits from another college.)

In addition, he was such a poor student at his private high school it seems extremely unlikely he would escape remedial courses at UT if offered by UT in the 1970's. So, while June 1975 was the very earliest graduation date, someone with Jeb Bush's terrible high school record might well have needed more than 4 years for a bachelor's degree.

5) You have to understand how a curriculum is set up in a department of a university to realize why it may be impossible to obtain a 4-year bachelor's degree in less time than 4 years (again, assuming you have no AP courses and no transfer credits when you begin).

Some departments offer no summer classes whatsoever. Other departments may only offer 1 intro class, and that 1 intro class is all that is offered each summer. In addition, not all courses are available every fall and spring semester. Finally, some departments may require prerequisites to certain courses, which means students are on a required sequence of coursework, and again, not all courses may be offered every semester. You have to know how the department is operating.

I did contact UT's Dept of Latin American Studies prior to posting this thread. What I learned made me conclude that it is impossible for Jeb Bush to have graduated from that department earlier than June 1975. Since he has never claimed to graduate in June 1975, it seems clear to me: he never graduated from UT at all.

Finally, as an example of what some university departments have to do to enable a 3-year graduation, consider this: they would have to overhaul their entire curriculum, as this professor from New Hampshire explains he did:

"Some skeptics worry about quality. 'It's as if they put students on a conveyer belt and just speed them up and spray them with a fire hose and the students catch what they can,' Southern New Hampshire University professor Marty Bradley says of models that compress four years into three. He pioneered a three-year degree on his campus in 1997 that required an overhaul of the curriculum."


And as for students who are able to obtain a 3-year degree, and who are in fact highly motivated, you would have to be like this student:

"The initiatives are aimed mostly at highly motivated students, such as 2012 Hartwick grad Samantha Hart, who earned 23 college credits while in high school and took heavier course loads while in college."

It seems to me, after reading the Feb 2015 Boston Globe article, Jeb Bush was in no way such a student.

Both excerpts above are from this 2012 USA Today article:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/perfi/college/story/2012-06-18/three-year-college-degrees/55746696/1

In my opinion, Jeb Bush was an academic failure in high school who should have been expelled and never received a high school diploma. He was not Yale material, nor was he really prepared for higher ed.

I believe: He dropped out of UT after 2 or 2-1/2 years. But it seems to me there has been a propaganda campaign to make Jeb Bush appear -- in the media -- to be the "brainiest" of his siblings, the "smart one", etc etc. This all conceals the actual reason he separated EARLY from UT. And --

-- it is all a crock of you-know-what is my firm belief. (Also, it would not surprise me if his parents employ a group of lawyers to research and write Jeb Bush's "position" papers so that Jeb Bush can also appear to be a "policy wonk.&quot

I appreciate that DU exists and allows individuals to express their opinions. That is my opinion: Jeb Bush is a fraud. I think if the truth ever came out, my opinion would be proven as fact. But it can be pretty tough to get through decades of media published propaganda. Some intelligent discussion of the issues I raised would do a lot to clear the air: the Carnegie unit of measurement, how the Latin American Studies Dept actually operates, etc.

I do still appreciate greatly the Boston Globe's Feb 2015 article revealing what an academic failure Jeb Bush was in his private high school; that was really ground-breaking, especially in light of all the propping-up of Jeb Bush that has come before and since that article.

[anobserver2]

113. Post-script to above reply: Is there a flip-side to this?

I am up late tonight writing, and I see people are reading this thread.

If one can understand and if one acknowledges that corruption results in the falsification of credentials, by those seeking power,
then perhaps one has to ask: Is there a flip-side to this type of mentality? Meaning: Are people who are corrupt and seeking power and fabricating credentials ever "going after" those they perceive as competition, meaning: are those who are genuinely smart ever blacklisted?

It would not surprise me personally, in the least, if all those FL teachers, who recently disclosed to the GOP-led State of FL that they have high SAT scores -- in response to the state now offering financial bonuses to teachers with high SAT scores - eventually find themselves facing a host of bizarre situations: falsely arrested by corrupt police on fake DUI charges, written up for non-existent incidents by their GOP principals, etc. etc. etc.

Can this really happen? I think it is a legitimate question -- especially when power is obtained by those who have to fabricate their own credentials, because: such people may really worry about potential competition by those who are actually smart.

Again, it would not surprise me in the least if those highest scoring SAT teachers soon find themselves in some type of weird, unexplainable situation in the future whereby: their good reputations are falsely and wrongly tainted. It sure can prevent them from thinking about running for office.


I was shocked to recently learn from a question I asked the state attorney's office in the 20th circuit the exact number of people arrested in one region of FL in one year, when such arrest resulted in: no criminal charges filed. Just a criminal arrest. I think it was over 4,300 people -- in one year, in one region of FL. That's how many people were arrested -- but not prosecuted. Here is the exact number and what that office wrote to me (and they then sent me the document showing this number):

...In response to your request, the total number of individuals arrested which
resulted in No Charges Filed for the year 2000 is 4389.

Richard J. Montecalvo
Assistant State Attorney for Special Prosecutions
Office of the State Attorney - 20th Judicial Circuit of Florida
P.O. Box 399
Fort Myers, Florida 33902


So - "no charges filed" is the final disposition for "4,389" people: but, they all now have a CRIMINAL RECORD. Yet, Jeb Bush has no criminal record, His father has no criminal record. Somehow, this does not seem fair to me.

Is that how it goes? It's a question I have been asking for years now, due to my own personal experiences. 'Nuff said.

[anobserver2]

114. SO GLAD THIS FRAUD JEB BUSH WILL NOT BE PRESIDENT!

HALLELUJAH!

[anobserver2]

115. Evidence of collusion between Jeb & Right To Rise?

To me, there is evidence of collusion between Jeb Bush and the Right To Rise super PAC, and that evidence is the material omission of ANY mention of Jeb Bush's alleged college career in his 15-minute documentary about his life ("The Jeb Story," a video sent to NH voters).

There is a web site for this documentary:

http://www.thejebstory.com/

I watched this documentary for the first time the other day. At about 4 minutes or less into it, Jeb Bush speaks and gives the following summary of his life: he met his wife while he was a senior in high school, they married, and then he went to work.

There is no mention whatsoever of any college degree.

Now, if Mike Murphy produced this video without any input from Jeb Bush -- don't you think Mike Murphy of Right to Rise would have included info about Jeb's stellar college career? How Jeb "squeezed" a 4-year degree into "2 years" and graduated early? And how Jeb Bush graduated "magna cum laude" and "Phi Beta Kappa" with a "degree" in Latin American Studies from the University of Texas?

Or at the very least, wouldn't you expect this documentary to mention Jeb Bush is a college graduate? But - no.

Again: Nope. Not one word about college. And I think that very material omission exists because Jeb Bush told him not to mention college because: Jeb Bush knows Jeb is actually a college drop-out.

Of course I am assuming Right to Rise produced this documentary. However, if Jeb Bush and his campaign produced this documentary, the omission is still material, and still proves to me: Jeb Bush knows he is a college drop-out.

[anobserver2]

116. Jeb Bush's transcript has probably been destroyed

I realized today for the first time that Jeb Bush's University of Texas college transcript has
probably already been destroyed (or permanently deliberately "misplaced).

It would not surprise me if it was destroyed right after the
1974 FERPA law came into effect, as that law concealed students' transcript from public view.

So, instead of a transcript, perhaps we are left only
with this federal FERPA law -- shielding destruction of evidence (a crime) from view.

However, I notice that under certain circumstances this transcript -- without the consent of the student -- is still required to be produced, according to the FERPA page online here:

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html

Specifically:

Generally, schools must have written permission from the parent or eligible student in order to release any information from a student's education record. However, FERPA allows schools to disclose those records, without consent, to the following parties or under the following conditions (34 CFR § 99.31):

To comply with a judicial order or lawfully issued subpoena; ...

Consequently, if the FBI were to ever request a subpoena, then perhaps we would know if in fact this transcript was
already destroyed. (Or, I believe, we might get a recently created transcript/forgery, showing classes that never existed, etc.)

But, how does one get the FBI to do that?

I realize they have many other important things to do. Yet, I think it is an
important issue: fraudulently running for the highest office in our country by posing as a college graduate when you ran
for governor -- and never being vetted at that time because you're in a political dynasty family.

It really makes clear the class distinctions in our country, and how far corrupt politicians
can fraudulently go with corrupt institutions duping the public.

It would be nice if someday we had something else come out, such as: the truth.