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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMalheur update, if you can stomach it
http://registerguard.com/rg/news/local/33982841-75/update-armed-group-plans-event-to-renounce-federal-land-policy.html.cspBURNS The leader of an armed group occupying a national wildlife refuge near Burns plans to have a ceremony Saturday for ranchers to renounce federal ownership of public land and tear up their federal grazing contracts.
On Friday, Ammon Bundy met briefly with a federal agent as authorities attempt to resolve the three-week-old standoff over federal land policies. But Bundy left because the agent wouldnt talk with him in front of the media.
snip
He also questioned the FBIs authority. If you havent got sanction from the sheriff, theres no reason to be talking to you, Bundy said.
snip
Harney County Judge Steve Grasty said in a statement Friday that many locals are incredulous about the federal governments fear of taking action against the lawlessness that we are witnessing on a daily basis.
End excerpt. In the print edition, there is another fucking picture of some law enforcement official shaking hands with this asshole. Makes me want to scream. They should grab his hand, twist it around his back, slap the cuffs on and frog march his ass into the paddy wagon.
Bettie
(16,083 posts)and there will be other "events" too, since the Feds have proven unwilling to act.
RKP5637
(67,102 posts)really going on.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)if the rw has infiltrated the govt agencies and has, in fact, taken over while we were all distracted by shiny objects.
RKP5637
(67,102 posts)very biased and selective. Also, this might be far more widespread than many realize and the feds are trying to not start some kind of civil war or whatever. These guy have guns, so they get a free pass, peaceful protesters with no weapons get the shit beat out of them by TPTB.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)eaten through the wood frame structure of the U.S.A. and one day - someone's going to step on the kitchen floor and find themselves in the cellar. Then it'll be too late to do anything about it but tear it down and start over.
RKP5637
(67,102 posts)a free pass.
villager
(26,001 posts)...or so.
Add in the pressures of simultaneous environmental and "empire" collapse, and it may not even take that long...
StandingInLeftField
(972 posts)I can see that happening without the need for an EMP taking out all electricity.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)...because they have determined -- rather accurately -- that what constitutes the present Democrstic Party is easily cowed; they will milk this for every drop, then come back for more.
The question for progs and libs is more long-term: Does our outlook include a style/ideology which does not suffer punk extremists lightly, or is it More soft whining and hand-wringing? Clearly, the FR believes it has the answer.
RKP5637
(67,102 posts)liberalhistorian
(20,815 posts)protesters in there, as well as some old hippies, and they'll be there in full force faster than you can say "double standard hypocrisy." There, problem solved.
Bettie
(16,083 posts)killin'.
How sad is it that I'm not sure if that's sarcasm or not?
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)that will kick the feds into action.
liberalhistorian
(20,815 posts)work just as well!
RKP5637
(67,102 posts)are taking action, all we hear is silence, for the most part, from TPTB.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)local authorities to handle.
mdbl
(4,973 posts)If someone ripped off a candy bar in a 7-11, he/she would be in jail. Why are these morons being treated any differently?
MH1
(17,595 posts)Eric Garner, I think his name was.
about the not knowing his name part.
avebury
(10,952 posts)If they think that standing back and letting idiots like this break the law over and over will not encourage further incidents like this as time goes by they have lost their ever loving minds.
Actions must have consequence. Back when they went after the Bundys the Feds back out and let the Bundys win. And now we have another incident. They need to put their big boy and girl pants on and do their job. They should not be allowing these idiots to freely come and go but pick and choose the right times to start rounding them up. They need to cut off access to the site, cut the utilities and let them run through their supplies. Don't let them leave unless they come out unarmed and arrest them as they leave.
2naSalit
(86,508 posts)And that is part of their objective.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)nruthie
(466 posts)3 weeks and these freaks seem to be the ones who are calling the shots and doing as they damn well please. Terrorizing the locals and tearing up a wildlife refuge is fine. Pretty sobering to realize the federal government can't be bothered to protect us.
malthaussen
(17,183 posts)... that didn't end too well for him and his gang. Ironically, it was Robert E. Lee and J.E.B. Stuart who took him down...
-- Mal
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)headed up a Virginia state militia, IIRC, and not a federal force.
That said, I believe Brown and Bundy is a false analogy and here is why. Brown, in attacking chattel slavery, threatened one of the foundation stones of American capitalism. Bundy, by contrast, seeks to privatize lands in the public domain. In so doing, Bundy hardly threatens American capitalism. In a perverse way, Bundy's escapade actually serves the interests of capital.
This may explain why Brown's raid was brutally suppressed, whereas Bundy's is molly-coddled.
malthaussen
(17,183 posts)... a Federal arsenal, and was captured by U.S. Marines under Lee without a moment of hesitation. (In those days, Marines were often led by West Point officers, rather than now when they are from the Naval Academy) He wanted to start an armed insurgency, too. There are plenty of references to the raid, but here's the Wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown's_raid_on_Harpers_Ferry
The raid actually raises some interesting questions about state's rights and the jurisdiction of the Federal government. Brown's raid was considered a "declaration of war against the Commonwealth of Virginia," but because the arsenal was a Federal installation, he was also quite clearly levying war on the United States. And so are those idiots in Oregon.
As for the slaves and capitalism, the abolitionists would not agree with you, and most of them were capitalists. Brown has always been a hero to the abolitionists (the song "John Brown's Body" was the anthem of one of the most abolitionist of Massachusetts regiments, which caused Julia Ward Howe to write new lyrics, giving us "The Battle Hymn of the Republic. Or so the story goes." (the story of the song is much more complex and interesting than that tidy little account, however)
-- Mal
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Last edited Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:18 AM - Edit history (1)
in the counterattack (surely not one of the USMC's better chapters in its history, eh? ).
I definitely agree that the abolitionists were capitalists; they could not help but be, since scientific socialism was still awaiting birth. However, in attacking the Arsenal, Brown and his raiders were not only attacking the Commonwealth of Virginia or the U.S. They were attacking a symbol of the fundamental property relations peculiar to American capitalism at the time, i. e., chattel slavery. The contrast with the Bundy brigands could not be starker.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)I don't actually believe for a second that they'd really leave, but it would help to make it perfectly clear that they're full of shit.
nruthie
(466 posts)The feds are the ones who are "in control" here. So far Bundy is the one giving the orders.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)So call their bluff about that. He may have no actual authority but there's nothing preventing him from making an announcement to the effect that he and the rest of the county don't want them there.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)phantom power
(25,966 posts)If he's already done it, that's great.
RKP5637
(67,102 posts)demands are met. The FBI wanted to meet with them, they wouldn't unless it was televised or something. Then they went looking for the sheriff. They were told the sheriff was not available, and for good reason, they want the sheriff and judge in their citizens court to be tried for crimes. Other sheriffs did meet with them as I understand. It seems it's getting close to the time for the Feds to take serious action.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)Since the feds are content to let these assholes come and go as they please, it must mean that they are entering the sheriff's county jurisdiction every time they head into town to pick up more supplies. I assume he can't arrest anybody unless they actually commit a crime off federal land but he can make them unwelcome. Which, again, they loudly claim to be respectful of. So make it clear that their claim is bullshit.
SwankyXomb
(2,030 posts)there are plenty of random charges they could use to arrest them.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)officials. It is already clear to those people that they are full of shit, Bundy said they'd leave if the local people asked them to, then when they asked them to Bundy did not leave. What you are calling for has already happened and continues to happen.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)What is his particular bullshit rationalization for not doing what they said they'd do?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I think that you need to acknowledge that. You are yammering at the Sheriff and the people to do what they have been doing all along and that's shitty. It really is. It's not being honest about what they are doing, it is spreading false rumor.
It seems to me that Bundy and many on DU who want swift confrontation share a similar view of government as pernicious. You are criticizing local authorities for not doing what they are in fact doing. Who does that serve, exactly? How does that expedite resolution?
phantom power
(25,966 posts)StandingInLeftField
(972 posts)unless both parties are willing to negotiate. And that has been tried and has failed.
Megahurtz
(7,046 posts)with terrorists. And if the Feds give them anything that they demand, they will keep going
and try to take other land by armed force, and the masses of other armed wingnut followers will join them.
This is a very dangerous situation with the potential to get much worse if they don't shut down Bundy's operations soon.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)spanone
(135,815 posts)Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)There are valid reasons for waiting out a few more cockroaches.
These people don't really have a plan. They just want glory and free land. The massive egos involved will start clashing with each other when they aren't actively engaged with their deluded idea of "enemies."
For once I agree with the Mormon Church. We are blessed to live in a nation where we change leadership via elections and not through bloodshed. People may lie, cheat and steal to win, but the process is essentially bloodless.
The Bundy-ites and others like them truly want to see might make right. They hate the American way of doing things. They aren't patriots, but anarchists who want to use firearms and weaponry to get what they want. (They need to go somewhere and form their own nation. This one is already formed, thank you.)
Let them all come crawling as they think it's safe. If you get my drift.
It's always better to calmly try to de-escalate things. No one wants a massive loss of life. Be patient and imagine the best outcome, even if the law is being unevenly applied.
StandingInLeftField
(972 posts)I regret your naiveté.
Nay
(12,051 posts)showing no patience at all for anybody else (not even for innocents), but somehow these guys who are in-your-face taking over federal lands with guns -- well, they're getting a pass. So far, a three-week pass. And they're getting handshakes, backslaps, and respect from the so-called LE community. They are allowed to come and go, get supplies, etc. It's mind-blowing, and I have the horrible feeling that there are enough LEOs out there that agree with these morons. RWers tend to congregate into such occupations anyway, but we may have too many of them in policing now.
RKP5637
(67,102 posts)piece of cloth.
GeorgeGist
(25,318 posts)but in view of the BundyBunch shut out of Eric Holder in Nevada, I doubt it.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Of course, they've (conveniently) decided that Sheriff Ward has "surrendered" his constitutional power to the feds. Imagine that...
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)phantom power
(25,966 posts)They don't care about "freedom" or "small government" or "not giving handouts" or "authority of local sheriffs." What they care about is being allowed to do whatever the hell they want, and take whatever the hell they want, with no interference. They're just gun-slinging thugs, who threaten anybody who stands in their way with violence.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)The governor is begging the federal government for help.
"This situation is absolutely intolerable and it must be resolved immediately," Brown said, saying she'll continue to press her case with the White House and FBI and also seek federal reimbursements. "The very fabric of this community is being ripped apart."
She confirmed that federal authorities had asked her office and other local officials to say as little as possible about the occupation to keep from adding any fuel to the occupiers' rhetorical fire. But that didn't stop her from speaking out all the same.
"This spectacle of lawlessness must end," Brown said.
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/01/kate_brown_oregon_should_help.html
Vinca
(50,255 posts)The feds should move in, arrest them and if they resist with firearms, respond in kind. There's a fine line between martyr and idiot with this crowd.
underpants
(182,734 posts)Actually you CAN renounce a contract but that means you give up the rights (the benefits to you) in the contract