Legal/LEO experts, what charges will the Bundy Bunch face?

[Aerows]

They were arrested on conspiracy to intimidate LEOs, or something of that nature.

What kind of sentences can they expect along with additional charges, and punitive fees?

[Midnight Writer]

1. Take them, their guns and all the ammo they can carry and drop them off in Somalia.

Somalia has the smallest, most powerless government imaginable. Let's see how they fare in their fantasy dreamland of "every man for themselves".

Live free or die!

[Maru Kitteh]

2. Not enough snacks

In Somalia. Wont' work.

[rollin74]

3. not an expert, but max sentence of 6 years for what they've been charged with so far

found this article which suggests sentences of more than 10 years possible if feds charge with everything

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/14/armed-oregon-militia-federal-law-legal-experts-prosecution-prison-fines

For starters, one federal statute regarding public property holds that if a person “knowingly converts to his use” property of the federal government, that person could face a fine and a prison sentence of up to 10 years if the value of the property is greater than $1,000.

Another federal law specifically governing wildlife refuges says that willful property destruction at protected sanctuaries could yield a six-month prison sentence. A separate statute says that if someone “willfully and maliciously” destroys property on certain federal lands, then he or she could face a fine of up to $250,000 and five years in prison.

[SeattleVet]

4. I imagine that the initial charge is just a starting point.

Charge one felony to be able to hold them, file additional charges while they are in custody. Some may be more serious.

Lord knows that these guys left enough videotaped and streamed evidence of several crimes to have the feds going through things for a while. I'd be surprised if additional charges weren't forthcoming.

[jmowreader]

5. The feds have five years to press charges

https://www.whitecollarcrimeresources.com/how-long-can-the-federal-government-investigate-you.html

The only way the government can hold you longer than 48 hours is to charge you, so they came up with a charge to lay on them right after the ambush. Since none of them are from Oregon, they can be declared a flight risk and held without bail. This will let the government go through Malheur and string together a long list of fairly minor shit like destruction of government property (the fence), tampering with utility company property (the cameras), illegally accessing government computers, and so on and so forth.

The government has laws against treason, sedition and subversive activities, and you can find them in:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115

Theoretically, at least, they COULD charge them with:
18 USC 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection
18 USC 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
18 USC 2385 - Advocating overthrow of government

I think they might do it; there's certainly no shortage of incriminating video footage the Bundy Bunch plastered all over YouTube. However, these would be light compared to what I think their ultimate goal is. Sovereign citizens have been a grade-A pain in the ass for so long, the government has just been itching to use some of them as An Example by beating the living shit out of them so hard it discourages other people from pursuing the sovereign citizen lifestyle. This is what I think they will go for:

18 USC Chapter 96 - Racketeering Influenced and Corrupt Organizations

18 USC 1962(a) says:

It shall be unlawful for any person who has received any income derived, directly or indirectly, from a pattern of racketeering activity or through collection of an unlawful debt in which such person has participated as a principal within the meaning of section 2, title 18, United States Code, to use or invest, directly or indirectly, any part of such income, or the proceeds of such income, in acquisition of any interest in, or the establishment or operation of, any enterprise which is engaged in, or the activities of which affect, interstate or foreign commerce. A purchase of securities on the open market for purposes of investment, and without the intention of controlling or participating in the control of the issuer, or of assisting another to do so, shall not be unlawful under this subsection if the securities of the issuer held by the purchaser, the members of his immediate family, and his or their accomplices in any pattern or racketeering activity or the collection of an unlawful debt after such purchase do not amount in the aggregate to one percent of the outstanding securities of any one class, and do not confer, either in law or in fact, the power to elect one or more directors of the issuer.

Malheur isn't any of these guys' first rodeo. IIRC they were all players in the Bunkerville standoff in 2014. According to RICO law, if you do the same shit at least twice in the last ten years you have established the necessary "pattern of racketeering activity." They received money and material support from their supporters (somehow I don't think the government will count the dildos, drum of KY Jelly, and bags of dicks as material support here, sorry) so that counts as "income derived from a pattern of racketeering activity" and they spent it at Safeway so that completes all the requirements to throw the book at the lot of them. Under RICO the government can seize and sell off any of your shit they can tie to the "criminal enterprise," and they're VERY good at tying everything you own to it.

I think it'll get interesting if they can tie major players in the Bunkerville Standoff who weren't on the ground in Oregon, like Cliven Bundy, into the Malheur Standoff.

[Elwood P Dowd]

6. Yep, when they inspect the place and gather more evidence, expect multiple charges to be added.

These clowns are going to be spending a few years in Federal prison.

[madokie]

7. We can hope

[exboyfil]

26. Assuming you get a jury that will convict

I see a series of mistrials with jury nullification going on.

[Hortensis]

8. We almost never use sedition laws, of course,

which would in this case really pump up the importance of this group's action, not imaginary this time -- it would be a major step with major repercussion among the sorts who believe we already live under a dictatorship or are about to. Theoretical it will remain is definitely my guess.

[dmr]

9. May not get bail either

The retired LEO (negotiator) MSNBC always goes to said they probably will be refused bail because of the danger they pose. Their threatening use of guns would most likely disqualify bail.

So let them sit and stew in a jail cell.

[struggle4progress]

10. I'll guess marching armed onto Federal property, while announcing your intent to distribute

that property back to its "rightful owners" and warning the Feds not to try to dislodge you lest people get killed, and then staying several weeks and trashing the place, offer a prosecutor a whole buffet of charges

I'd bet the federal felony murder rule would allow charging some of the militia guys with tarpman's death

[Katashi_itto]

13. Everyone in the car with Tarp Man could be charged with Felony Murder at the min.

[leftyladyfrommo]

15. I just read that those singing kids

Were in that vehicle.

What kind of mother takes her kids into a standoff situation. And she showed up with them in 2014, too.

[randome]

16. Builds character?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[leftyladyfrommo]

18. You got me.

Maybe she is hoping they will get famous if the right people see them.

Unbelievable.

[Katashi_itto]

17. Good lord. Wonder if she will lose them.

[leftyladyfrommo]

19. She has already lost one kid. nt

I know one girl was in the truck. I am not sure how many of the kids were there. I guess they were planning g 9ne singing at the meeting.

These people are from another planet.

[Katashi_itto]

20. Cool, its pretty evident she's unfit.

[leftyladyfrommo]

21. She sounds mentally ill.

But then they all do.

[Katashi_itto]

22. Go listen to them on notheifsallowed.com still getting live feed from the refuge.

Nothing right now. Looks like the Refuge's last tech guy is sleeping, exhausted.
Listening to them is walk on the surreal side. They are total wackjobs.

[leftyladyfrommo]

23. How bout the guy who dressed up like a sumo wrestler.

And ranted and raved out on front of the cameras. I think he is also the one screaming into the camera about a bloodbath.

He just acts completely out of it.

[Katashi_itto]

24. Think I saw him yesterday sometime, screaming "come get some"

Waving an AR and in camos.

[Aerows]

28. There is crazy ...

... and then there is a guy in a sumo wrestler costume in the snow calling Chris Christie his brother and challenging him to a match.

He is nuttier than a pecan pie in a fruitcake factory.

[jmowreader]

27. The kind who wants to use them as human shields

[Lee-Lee]

11. It all depends on what the prosecutors want to throw at them

You have all kinds of destruction of government property. You have lots of theft/misuse of government property. Destruction of archeological sites. Earthmoving without a permit.

Some were driving and using government vehicles- theft or unauthorized use.


You could even go down as far as FCC violations for using radio frequencies on cheap Chinese radios not approved for that use, or without a license. They were also using the NPS radios, that's another charges.

The FBI and others will build a case for tons of small and big charges, but it will be the US Attorney who determines what is charged.

[hobbit709]

12. Destruction of government property is probably on the list.

[randome]

14. And they livecast much of the destruction on YouTube! An abundance of evidence. What morons!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[yellowcanine]

25. More charges will follow once they complete the investigation.

They have a large crime scene at the Refuge to process. Laptop computers, cell phone records, vehicles.
Criminal trespass for one. Possibility of state charges in addition to Federal charges as well. Breaking and entering, burglary theft, unauthorized use of vehicles, vandalism, invasion of privacy, disturbing native American artifacts. Armed threats of county, state and federal law enforcement. Firearms charges for use of firearms in commission of felonies. I suspect some of the charges will be used as leverage to get guilty pleas in order to avoid the cost and hoopla of notorious trials. The last thing we need to do is give these guys a national platform. But if they don't cooperate, hit them with everything possible, including seizing everything which was used in commission of the crimes as well as seizing property to pay fines and restitution for the costs incurred to clean up the mess they left at the Refuge and to compensate the county, state, and federal government for costs.

[Aerows]

29. The one that was raving

while dressed as a sumo wrestler needs to be taken into custody for major psychological evaluation. He's a perfect candidate for wearing paper underwear for several months.