So glad that I gave up eating meat. So glad that I can look in any animal's eye and say...

[Luminous Animal]

Now, I look at you with respect. You are my sister. You are my brother.

[Press Virginia]

1. I look them in the eye

and tell them they look delicious

[Luminous Animal]

2. Do you take pliers and pull out their teeth, do you cut their tails off, do you knife off their

penis...

[Press Virginia]

3. Only if I'm making soup

[Luminous Animal]

5. Then. No. You do not. You cede horrors for things that you will not do.

[Press Virginia]

6. The only horror is the thought of an unfinished steak

being thrown into the trash.

I cleaned, dressed and butchered Bambi's mother when I was younger. Probably a few of his cousins too.

[Armymedic88]

8. ....

[Luminous Animal]

9. Of course you did, dear.

[GGJohn]

13. Oh snap!!!

[TipTok]

46. Brought this to mind...

Followed by...

[Press Virginia]

60. If meat is murder

Make mine a bacon double cheese murder

[LanternWaste]

52. Bless your little heart...

Bless your little heart.

[Press Virginia]

59. Oh no. Bless the brave men and women whose jobs make it possible

for me to enjoy delicious animals with my friends and family. Without them, I couldn't buy nice small packages of steak and chicken. And I don't have my wife asking what we're going to do with all this deer meat in the basement freezer.

[Nevernose]

123. The people who work in slaughterhouses have crappy jobs

(and should be unionized). However, I'd hardly call their jobs "brave."

[Press Virginia]

124. I respect and appreciate their work

[A HERETIC I AM]

244. How about this, then.....

I worked in an Abbatoir when I was a teenager (in Australia) so......

I actually HAVE killed cattle, hogs and sheep and still eat meat today.

And for what it's worth, NOBODY "take(s) pliers and pull out their teeth". That's just stupid.

However....

"do you cut their tails off"...

Ummmm yup, because once you skin the tail, it is made up of bones that make great soup. Ever heard of Ox Tail Soup?


But this is the really interesting one and frankly, says an AWFUL LOT about YOU;

"do you knife off their penis..."

I don't know why I find this funny, but it is...funny as hell! "Knife off their penis"?!? Really? No. Not on a weekday or in mixed company, anyway. Seriously, that term isn't used. It is removed with a knife (or machine, in the case of the major packing houses) but I never heard anyone tell me "Hey Heretic..knife off the penis, would ya?"

Good for you that you don't eat meat. That's fine. But why would you even bother thinking about, much less posting a response to a perfect stranger a reply specifically meant to belittle and shame them? What the ever living fuck is that all about?

Get the hell down off your high horse, enjoy some Tofu, live your life and let others live theirs.

Jesus H. Christ at the grinder unsticking a hoof.

[Raster]

65. Ding! Winnah!

[Katashi_itto]

159. I hunted antelope in New Mexico. They tasted great.

I love an occasional steak too. But heavy meat diets are unhealthy. But I like meat in moderation.

[Separation]

229. I too can look at an animal

And say that I respect them. I have a nice little house in the Appalachian with 5 acres. We raise our own chickens, a very sustainable heirloom garden. The chickens and the garden provide us with at least %50 of our food. We are getting 2 goats this spring for milk and cheese. During the winter I normally harvest 2-3 deer that provide us with meat for 3-5 months. When we run out of deer meat I will go to a local farm and will get a half of a cow.

I have almost controlled %90 of my food from the field to the dinner plate. Even though I eat animals, I have a huge respect for them. I wish that everyone was able to do that, but I know that it'll never happen due to the population.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

72. "I look them in the eye"

Would that be the ribeye?

[Press Virginia]

115. Ha

[snooper2]

79. LOOK ME IN THE EYES!

[Press Virginia]

114. That is disturbing

I wonder what it tastes like

[Hekate]

129. Don't they call that a star nosed mole? Probably tastes earthy.

Very interesting looking critter.

[Quackers]

231. KILL IT!!!! KILL IT DEAD!!!!!

Doesn't that thing suction to your face then lay eggs in your chest?

[Logical]

120. Why join this post except to be a jerk? nt

[Press Virginia]

121. It was a joke, Francis. Lighten up.

[GGJohn]

135. Hey Logical,

[Armymedic88]

4. I can see this post going down a road you don't want..

BTW Bacon is delicious!!!

[Luminous Animal]

7. This post will go down pretty much that I expect. A celebration of cruelty.

Yeah. I can totally understand how you would want to stand in blood 8 hours a day and slice a pig's throat and slice a pig's throat and slice a pig's throat, and slice a pig's and slice a pig's throat

A celebration of taste on the backs of sentient social and loving beings whose teeth are pulled out with pliers, whose tails and penis are sliced off…

All semblance of their community destroyed. Piglets separated from their mothers. Kicked, beaten and abused.

Yeah i can understand how you would be for torture for your bacon.

[Armymedic88]

17. I grew up on a family farm...

And I can tell you from my experience that the things you state aren't true. Pulling teeth? Cutting tails off? Wtf are you talking I have never heard of such things. And as a religous person myself I take harvesting an animals life seriously and with respect. The big Ag Industry has done horrible things to animals and I don't defend them.

[Drahthaardogs]

86. Agree.

Grew up on a ranch. We castrated but if the OP thinks that is cutting off their penis, well, them I guess a Mark Twain quote comes to mind.

[NickB79]

125. We cut tails and pulled teeth on piglets on our farm.

Tail cutting to stop them from chewing on each other's tails and causing infections.

Pulling teeth to let them nurse longer and fatten up faster.

Castration with razor blades and a spray bottle of iodine

[Armymedic88]

131. We had friends who raised swine...

They trimmed the newborns tails, snipped their incisors, and castrated with medicated bands. Most people think of pigs as these cute little animals but in all reality they're not they will literally eat each other's tails which can get infected and cause them to die. Not any worse than human circumcision.

[NickB79]

210. I wish we used castration bands

My job as a 10-yr old boy was to flip the 25-lb pig between my legs, hold his hind legs, and sit on him while my dad took a razor blade to his balls.

I was almost deafened by the squealing

[Armymedic88]

132. The pulling teeth I have never heard of?!

[el_bryanto]

163. But also a celebration of your moral rectitude in the face of those who eat meat right?

i mean you feel great about yourself, knowing that you are special compared to those who disagree with you. Isn't that the point to this? You Luminous Animal are a decent and moral person and those who eat meat are assholes?

Bryant

[A HERETIC I AM]

245. Of course it's the point. n/t

[msanthrope]

10. Have you given up drink? nt

[Luminous Animal]

19. Water is great. Thanks for asking.

[msanthrope]

22. I'm going to suggest water, aspirin, and bed. nt

[Luminous Animal]

27. Why?

[Hekate]

130. You bad. But maybe this is just a symptom of boredom. Look at all the replies!

Or maybe it's some kind of art project to see if we can go 2 minutes without hashing over politics.

[msanthrope]

155. This is as good as the thread where LA threatened to tell the Internet I was plagarizing.....

my own work, mind you.

Or the one where she decided that using "GG" instead of spelling out Glen Greenwald everytime was homophobic.

I love performance art.

[21st Century Poet]

178. Don't refer to people with their initials.

Writing GG instead of Glen Greenwald is not homophobic but it is lazy and insulting. Typing out a full name really does not take much longer than typing out someone's initials, so why do it?

America's President BO... The presidential candidate BS... The other presidential candidate HRC...

It's not very classy, is it?

If it were up to me, I would go the whole hog and even say Bernard (a lovely sounding name) instead of Bernie but I guess many people just love shortening everything, if possible to just a couple of letters.

[msanthrope]

180. Welcome to DU. I like the cut of your jib. nt

[21st Century Poet]

185. TY.

That's short for thank you.

[Major Nikon]

246. Sure, just like LBJ, JFK, FDR, ...

[Hekate]

181. There you have it

[Luminous Animal]

218. Interesting that you asked that. If my OP had said that I had given up drink and that I

I was a better person for doing so, what would be your response?

[msanthrope]

226. I'd raise me glass to you, LA. nt

[Agnosticsherbet]

11. We are all animals. nt

[Luminous Animal]

14. I don't kill my sister for sustenance.

[Agnosticsherbet]

15. Neither do I, though fought like crazy as kids.

Bu we are all animals.

[Luminous Animal]

18. And?

[Agnosticsherbet]

21. We evolved as omnivores.

I am content to remain an omnivore.

[Luminous Animal]

23. There is omnivore and there is contributing to massive cruelty and suffering.

[Svafa]

103. Not to mention the environmental devastation caused by animal agriculture. nt

[mac56]

190. Every type of farming leads to some environmental devestation.

Tell me what kind of farming doesn't tear up habitat, or drive out one species or another.

Unless you subsist on roots and berries. Even then, a plant gave its life for that.

[Svafa]

191. Right, but not only do the animals themselves

have an impact (methane, land cleared for them, etc.), a great deal of crops need to be grown just to feed them. Animal agriculture is much more devastating to the environment than any other kind.

http://science.time.com/2013/12/16/the-triple-whopper-environmental-impact-of-global-meat-production/

[Major Nikon]

173. I seriously doubt that

Unless you grow all your own food you kill animals for sustenance. Even growing all your own food is pretty difficult not to kill other animals for sustenance. Just because you don't eat livestock, doesn't mean pests aren't eradicated, all sorts of vertebrates and invertebrates aren't chewed up by combines or burned to death in cane fields, habitat isn't being used up, and countless other ways billions of animals are destroyed each year by non-livestock human food production.

There are all sorts of reasons to justify being a vegan or vegetarian. Climbing on a high horse and making self-righteous false declarations isn't one of them.

[Kang Colby]

186. Excellent post. Thanks...I will have to use this later on down the road. Hope that's ok.

[Major Nikon]

192. Here's some other fun points to kick around

A single grass fed cow can fulfill the high quality protein and fat requirements of one person for about 1-2 years depending on their activity level. Cows are generally pastured on land that is ill suited for much else. It can be pointed out that cows displace land which could be used for indigenous bison or other native species, but it's hard to imagine that number would be very many over and above what there already are even if all cattle production ceased forever.

Now compare that to the number of animals dispatched or otherwise terminated in order to produce the same amount of protein and fat by other non-livestock means and it's not hard to imagine that number is considerably higher.

So if one truly wants to respect all of our animal "sisters", it seems the argument can be made for eating grass fed beef in lieu of high quality vegetable sources of protein and fat.

[GGJohn]

12. I look at them through a scope mounted to my .308

and think what wonderful steaks they are providing me and my wife and the homeless shelter in town.

[Luminous Animal]

16. Indeed. When it comes to killing, everybody turns into a philanthropist on DU.

[GGJohn]

20. Think what you will,

we still provide meat for the less fortunate and they're damn glad to have it, we provide turkey, deer, elk, hog, etc, we also butcher a couple of our cows each year for them.

[Armymedic88]

24. GGJohn Thank you for your service...

[GGJohn]

29. Thank you.

Army Medic?
Chopper pilot myself.

UH-1 Huey
AH-1 Cobra
UH-60 Black Hawk
AH-64D Apache, the baddest attack bird in the world.

[Armymedic88]

32. Yes was stationed at Ft Hood...

The aviation units seemed to working all the time. 24 hr a day operation over at the airfield! I got to ride in a Blackhawk once during training at Ft Sam. Pretty awesome experience!

[Luminous Animal]

25. Yes. I grew up on a farm and you damn well know factory farms have ZERO to do

with your reality. But go on with your own bad way.

[GGJohn]

26. Except I'm not defending factory farms,

I'm defending hunting for food.

[Luminous Animal]

31. Yet. Most of the U.S. gets their food from factory farms. If you aren't defending factory farms...

where is you opposition? Do you eschew factory farmed meat? Do you SOLEY eat meat that you've hunted?

[GGJohn]

33. We eat only what we hunt and raise, I refuse to buy meat from supermarkets just

Last edited Sat Mar 5, 2016, 06:56 PM - Edit history (1)

because of the cruel practices at these abominable factory farms.

[Luminous Animal]

34. Exactly. And I live in a city where the most of the meat available is packaged from factory

farms.

So, yes. I am proud that I do not eat meat.

[Bluenorthwest]

49. But your OP is not about factory farms. Not at all.

You switched materials when confronted with feeding the poor via hunting. I eat meat that is all local, humanely raised (have a fit over that word, feel free) and fully organic, raised by people whose names I know. Your OP attacks the hunter, me, the farmers, and says we eat our siblings. Your OP is not about industrial farming methods at all, it is about how great you are compared to others.

Have you spent much time on the subject of industrial farming of plant foods? Because that factory thing, it is not magically wonderful because it raises veg.

To make a field of veg, you start with a natural habitat and you displace or kill all the animals and insects that live there, their home is your plot of food. Cruelty free food! Next comes water. And labor. Who does the labor and how are they treated, are they compensated well, do they live in shacks, are they unionized, are their kids living as well as your kids? It's allegedly ethically sound food, this is vegetables and thus free of all cruelty.

So once we kill the pests and plow the rest under with machines and change the land, divert masses of water and abuse a few hundred workers we hand you a bowl of ultra righteous cruelty free food!!!

[melman]

126. "raised by people whose names I know"

Like that mean a goddamned thing to the animals. What a bunch of shit.

[msanthrope]

150. For you.....

m.

[msanthrope]

156. Sorry, but your post reminded me of this....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7661856

[Katashi_itto]

160. I first learned to shoot in the Navy. Mainly shotguns and sidearms. Ended up on Admirals staff 2nd f

Fleet

[GGJohn]

162. Admiral's staff?

That's quite an honor, I think, don't know too much about the Navy, but I would assume it would be the same as being on the Commanding General's staff.

[Katashi_itto]

164. I think your right its about the same thing. In the boat with you

Not sure how the army works but it sounds right.

[Katashi_itto]

165. Yeah it was prestigious, but hell piloting helicopters would have been wicked.

Last edited Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:38 AM - Edit history (1)

[GGJohn]

166. It did get interesting and terrifying at times,

other times, it was, well, mundane and boring.

[Katashi_itto]

167. There was desert storm but otherwise lots of coffee drinking and fleet logistics

[GGJohn]

168. I commanded a squadron of Apache's during Desert Storm,

lots of missions in such a short time.

[Katashi_itto]

174. Very cool!

Nothing as spectacular for me during it

[LanternWaste]

53. Creative story.

Creative story.

[GGJohn]

58. No idea what you're talking about,

Instead of being mealy mouthed, just come right out and say what you really mean.

[Logical]

122. Wow, I knew you would have to post something just to insult the OP. Wow, you are a tough guy. nt

[GGJohn]

133. Wow, a bunch of others doing the same thing and you single me out?

That would be the definition of stalking, Wow, you're an internet tough guy.

[Logical]

136. Quit whining, you were the first one I saw. And had to describe the gun....

And cool story bro!

[GGJohn]

137. Stating a fact isn't whining.

And I could care less if you believe it or not.

[Logical]

139. I think you meant "couldn't care less" nt

[TipTok]

138. Ooh ooh... Pick me!

[Logical]

140. Do you have a gun story to tell? Nt

[TipTok]

141. I've never shot at animals...

Just people who shot at me first...

Not super interesting but a different point of view... I suspect GGJohn has done both but I could be wrong...

[Logical]

142. Definitely takes courage! I cannot imagine. Nt

[GGJohn]

143. ...

Not super interesting but a different point of view... I suspect GGJohn has done both but I could be wrong...

You would be right.

[TipTok]

144. Playing the odds...

[GGJohn]

145. You should visit Las Vegas with those odds.

[hollograham]

30. I'm sad

I have tried to give up meat 5 times. twice vegan, other times veg. All 5 times I got really sick and weak. Lost way to much weight. The first time I thought it was because I am an amateur. But the other times I was very serious about calorie counting, making sure I got enough proteins and micro-nutrients...made no difference. By 6 months in I am way too thin and feel really unwell. The last time I tried going a whole year, and I broke down when friend stopped by with some homemade soup stock...it was calling me like a strong sex drive...something deep and primordial compelling me to have some. I couldn't think about anything else. And this is not hyperbole: It tasted like liquid gold. I swear I could feel cells in my body coming back alive as it went down my throat and radiated out. Don't read this as a pro-meat reply...It is not at all one. I have always wanted to avoid meat and hope anybody that can does...my body just seems to need at least a little. It was a frustrating journey to having to accept that.

[villager]

36. Even if people *ate less* of it -- or just were careful how their meat animals were raised

...it would make a huge difference.

[hollograham]

38. right

way less...and much more humane treatment of the animals. I get kosher whenever possible. But that only assuages my guilt a little.

[villager]

39. I'm Jewish, and you might be better off getting free-range, cruelty-free, rather than Kosher

There's some debate within the community about whether the "rules" of Kashrut need to be updated for present ecological realities.

Though give the choice between Kosher and non...

[renate]

98. you tried hard... you shouldn't feel bad

I don't eat meat but, although I like the taste, I don't seem to need it. You do, and you sacrificed a lot trying to follow your principles. I admire you very much.

[villager]

35. People like to laud their callousness and cruelty in threads like this. Part of the dissonance

...needed for them to consume industrially produced "meat products," while washing their hands of exactly what it is they're supporting --and its spiritual, ecological costs -- with their "progressive" dollars...

[Svafa]

105. +1

[renate]

117. it seems a little strange to me

Because meat isn't just any food. It's a plain and simple fact that sentient beings suffer, most of them terribly, so people can eat it. And even if it were just any food, it's weird how so many meat eaters rub it in. I wouldn't taunt somebody with celiac disease about how I eat spaghetti.

[villager]

118. It's akin to the bluster and put-downs of the gun-toters

A case of "doth protest too much," etc....

[21st Century Poet]

183. That's a bad comparison.

You cannot compare coeliac disease sufferers to vegetarians or vegans. The former cannot eat cereals, grains and other foods because they are allergic to them but the latter can eat meat but choose not to.

Social rules dictate that you don't make fun of someone's medical condition but you are free to make fun of someone's choices. For example, you don't make fun of someone whose skin condition manifests itself on his or her face but you do make fun of the individual who gets a skull tattooed on his face. That is just how the world works.

The replies to this thread were predictable and I personally find all the rubbing-it-in very amusing. Animals kill other animals for food. It has always been thus and it always will be. Life for an animal in a factory farm is not always optimal but death in a factory farm is at least more 'humane' and clinical than death at the mighty and savage teeth and claws of, say, a tiger.

Are you familiar with the great work of the animal behaviour expert Temple Grandin?

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21671150-how-temple-grandins-designs-have-reformed-meat-industry-jungle-no-more

[renate]

206. welcome to DU!

I agree, there's a difference between people with celiac disease and vegetarians. My point wasn't that there was an exact parallel between the reasons for the two people's choices, only that I would not go out of my way to tell someone with celiac disease that I was about to eat wheat the way that some posters are going out of their way to tell a vegetarian that they're about to eat meat.

Also, I most certainly would NEVER make fun of somebody's choices in a conversation with them. Perhaps I would think that somebody with a tattoo on his face had made a bad decision, but civil people do not mock others to their faces. The fact that some people do so does not make it okay. We're all free to form our own opinions of what others do, but I just don't understand the deliberate rudeness of some meat-eaters towards vegetarians. It strikes me as odd.

Yes, I am familiar with Temple Grandin's work. Killing an animal humanely is certainly better than killing it with maximum cruelty, but that doesn't make it fun for them. I don't need meat to live or to feel healthy, so I'm not going to be a part of killing an animal just because I like the way they taste. It's my choice to put the desire of an animal to not be killed (really, not to be borne and bred for the sole purpose of slaughter) ahead of my desire to eat a hamburger. Yet that choice seems to really bug people who eat meat. I have no idea why.

But it's okay that we disagree. That's what a discussion board is for.

Welcome to DU!

[Bettie]

253. Being Vegetarian or Vegan is a choice

so is being sanctimonious and preachy.

I am fine with the first, annoyed by the second.

It really is that simple.

[safeinOhio]

37. Veggies are mute. Because they don't

scream out in pain, it does not mean they don't feel pain when you sink your teeth into them.

[CrispyQ]

81. Vegetables don't have a central nervous system.

That said, to nourish yourself, something has to die, so why not eat as low on the food chain as possible? Or as I like to say, eat as far away from your own DNA as possible.

[Svafa]

106. This is a ridiculous argument. They have no nervous system; they can not feel pain.

[safeinOhio]

119. How would we know

If they can't tell us?

[Svafa]

158. Because they don't have a nervous system. Animals

have pain receptors; we know that they feel pain. Plants don't.

[Quackers]

40. Are you vegan or vegetarian? I'm just curious. nt

[restorefreedom]

41. Now i can look at you in peace....

i don't eat you any more

--franz kafka

[msanthrope]

42. Kick. nt

[femmedem]

43. Congratulations! It does feel good to live in accordance with your values.

With the exception of local honey, I am also a vegan for ethical reasons. After flirting with vegetarianism for many years, I gave up meat for good after watching Food, Inc. Later I gave up dairy when I understood how calves are separated from their mothers so we can drink the milk, and I gave up eggs when I understood the suffering of factory hens. Maybe someday I'll go back to eggs from local, free-roaming chickens, but probably not. I don't miss them.

I don't often preach about veganism or even vegetarianism, but since we're on the topic, I'll encourage people to learn about the link between the beef industry and global warming. We often feel powerless to limit our greenhouse gas emissions, but reducing or eliminating our beef consumption is probably the most powerful and easiest step most of us can take.

[CrispyQ]

90. Regarding beef consumption, I would also encourage people to read "Mad Cowboy"

by Howard Lyman.

It's a great book without any preaching about the ethics of eating animals, but rather the ethics of how we treat the animals & the planet. The meat industry has a huge impact on our planet & not just factory farming. There's a chapter titled Bovine Planet that's all about the environmental impact of grazing & it was one of the most memorable & interesting things I've read. Grazing is terrible for the planet!

[Major Nikon]

194. Soy production is arguably worse

Grazing generally takes place on land that is ill suited for much else, while soy production completely destroys areas that were once extremely rich in fauna and flora.

http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/footprint/agriculture/soy/impacts/

[Mendocino]

208. Reading Mad Cowboy was the break for me,

after which I ate no more "corporate meat". I still will eat an occasional fish that I catch myself, maybe 10-15 meals a year.

[21st Century Poet]

188. All power to you but your veganism makes no difference to global warming.

For every new vegan or vegetarian, 50 people in the developing world afford beef, chicken or pork for the first time in their lives. And they love every second of it.

Demand for meat products is rising not falling so your veganism makes literally no difference to the world. It would if people were to quit eating meat en masse but that is not going to happen any time soon.

PS I pulled the figure 50 out of thin air. I just needed a number to illustrate my point.

[hobbit709]

44. See what GM soy does to do.

[LiberalElite]

45. There's plenty to eat without eating meat -

Congrats! Vegetarian 25+ years here!

[Nye Bevan]

47. Do you wear leather shoes?

Because surely you don't want to have your "brother's" skin cut off to wear on your feet?

[Doremus]

71. I eschew leather shoes

and leather belts, leather clothes, leather car seats, leather everything.

I don't wear furs or buy anything else made with animal products including food.

Not only have I become healthier physically, I also feel better knowing I'm doing something about global warming. There's a lot to be said for the relief I feel about no longer aiding and abetting a loathsome industry too.

[HERVEPA]

251. Dumb comment. many or most people who are veggie for ethical reasons do not wear animal products.

Showing ignorance

[FLPanhandle]

48. Living according to your moral code is great

Trying to make other people live by your moral code makes you a pretentious asshole. No better than an anti-abortionist who pushes their moral code onto others.

[Duckhunter935]

64. very true

[dhill926]

228. Where is the OP trying to make…

Other people live by their moral code?

[Deadshot]

50. This is a bit sanctimonious.

I'm going to enjoy my steak tonight and not care.

[Luminous Animal]

213. If I said that I was happy to stop drinking alcohol but it made my life better...

would you respond with "I'm going to enjoy my cocktail tonight?"

Would you deem me sanctimonious for giving up alcohol and posting that doing so made my life better?

[cleanhippie]

51. Are you also so glad you can look down your nose in condescension at others?

Do you feel better about yourself now? I sure hope so.

[cwydro]

80. I didn't take the OP as sanctimonious at all.

I find it odd how many on DU are so defensive about being meat-eaters.

These threads always turn out this way.

The OP was simply stating his/her point of view, as so many do here.

[linuxman]

54. I bet if it came down to it

You could survive entirely off of self righteousness.

[Travis_0004]

55. Question

Should I have steak or porkchops for dinner tonight?

I didnt fight my way to the top of the food chain to eat a salad.

[gollygee]

56. I have never thought of an animal as a sibling. N/t

[KentuckyWoman]

66. Gives a whole new meaning to Mom having a cow.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

I'll be here all week......

[21st Century Poet]

189. You are right.

This is an important point. Other species are not our brothers and sisters. It is city living, the keeping of dogs and cat as pets and Disney cartoons which have turned other species into 'brothers and sisters'.

This is nothing but anthropomorphism by people who refuse to accept biological facts and who don't realise that life in the wild is much more savage and brutal than a factory farm beast killed clinically by a single shot.

If you watch too many cute cat YouTube videos, there is a chance that you will become a vegetarian.

[GulfCoast66]

225. Right on target

Having seen on many occasions a predator killing and consuming prey, I know that on average animals killed for consumption by humans die an easier death. Even on factory farms whose products I try to avoid, more for quality reasons than ethical. While I respect vegetarians, I realize that vegetarianism is the result of the most affluent society in human history. Go back 300 years and almost all of today's vegetarian would happily wield the knife.

[bigwillq]

57. I'm a meat eater.

But thanks for letting me know you're not.







Meat. Yum.

[Jester Messiah]

61. Mmm, delicious siblings. Om nom nom!

[Duckhunter935]

62. I am so glad I am going to have a thick

Steak tonight

[rjsquirrel]

63. Do you look a cat in the eye? A dog?

Many animals eat meat. Humans are adapted as omnivores and meat has been in our diets all along.

Fine if you don't want to eat it but it's innour nature to eat meat just as it is for many other animals species.

[KamaAina]

96. Dogs can and do eat vegetarian diets. Cats cannot.

They are "obligate carnivores", which means they must eat meat. They are unable to synthesize the amino acid taurine, without which they would go blind. They have to get their taurine from meat.

[Major Nikon]

198. I haven't ran across too many vegans that weren't cat owners

...and most cat owners I know wouldn't dare keep kiteh inside all the time.

[KamaAina]

199. My favorite vegan happens to be a dog person

and what does it matter if kitteh stays inside? What do you think goes into Friskies and Meow Mix?

[Major Nikon]

200. I'm not sure what they put in Friskies and Meow Mix

But I'm pretty sure it isn't songbirds and baby squirrels.

[KamaAina]

209. Ah. I see.

What I don't see is how that is relevant to the paradox of vegans owning cohabiting with cats who must eat meat.

[panader0]

67. Vegetables are alive too.

[Svafa]

107. Yes, but they do not have a nervous system. They have no brain, so they are not conscious,

and they have no pain receptors, so they don't feel pain. Comparing them to animals is absurd.

[panader0]

111. I suggesy you read 'The Secret Life of Plants'

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xLtXZfxqL._SX326_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Plants grow faster and better when talked to nicely. They don't like being ripped out of the ground.
But every living thing needs nutrition from other living things.

[Major Nikon]

249. No less absurd than equating all animals

Not all animals have pain receptors and brains, nor do they all process sensory inputs in the same way humans do. Plants can also transmit sensory information and react to stimuli.

[Svafa]

250. True not all animals fit that description, but when we're talking about

meat consumption, we are not talking about single-cell organisms; we're primarily talking about birds and mammals, which DO have complex nervous systems and pain receptors.

[Major Nikon]

252. Even in those instances, comparing them directly with humans just isn't that great of an idea

For one thing, we don't know if any of those animals experience pain in the same way humans do just because their nervous system is more complex than a house plant. For another, every state in the union regulates the way livestock may be treated. Certainly some states do a better job of this than others and that conversation is certainly worth having, but the whole idea of assuming an animal is adverse to something exactly the same way a human is just doesn't have that much merit. Most states have regulations that govern the dispatching of animals in ways that are more humane than those used for humans on death row. Much is made of the "cruelty" of livestock raised for foie gras, completely ignoring the facts that waterfowl are made to swallow extremely large fish, do not breathe through their esophagus, and have livers that are made to expand greatly. Numerous studies have shown that livestock animals experience less stress than their wild counterparts.

The ethical treatment of animals is a good conversation to have, but one that starts with "A Rat Is a Pig Is a Dog Is a Boy" probably isn't going to be all that rational, nor is one that starts with the assumption that all livestock consumption is unethical while conveniently ignoring the parallels which exist with the human consumption of non-animals.

[tazkcmo]

68. I can do that too

While eating a fat juicy burger. Cows are not my brother or sister. I have no relatives that stupid. Or delicious.

[B2G]

69. Pack your bags everyone!

LA is taking us all on a guilt trip...

[pintobean]

70. I'm packing a lunch.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

73. "You are my sister. You are my brother."

The family house is on fire. You only have the time to save one victim --

A) your human sibling

B) the family dog

C) the family cat

Which do you choose?

[zappaman]

259. My brother is kind of a dick.

So this is gonna take some thought...

[hunter]

74. My wife is entirely vegetarian, I don't regularly eat meat. We have dogs in the family.

I don't think it would be right to force a vegetarian diet on the dogs.

I do try to maintain an awareness of where our foods come from. I don't reject meals made from fish my family has caught, animals they have raised on their farms, or animals they have hunted. Fishing, farming, and hunting can be accomplished in an ethical manner. But I rarely fish, and I haven't hunted meat for decades, despite my name.

"Factory farming" and industrial scale fishing are damaging what little remains of our earth's natural environment, are damaging to our own human spirit, and most of all, are not good for the animals so abused.

[fleur-de-lisa]

75. I am not a vegetarian.

I went an entire 18 month period a few years back when I didn't eat meat at all. I ended up gaining some weight, but it was probably due to the fact that I started menopause around the same time. I didn't realize until some time later that it was probably menopause and not my diet.

Anyway, I really don't understand the need for everyone to pile on this thread and insult Luminous Animal. Why would anyone do that? Sheer meanness I suppose.

[TipTok]

82. It's the sanctimonious and holier than thou tone...

One could excuse or understand if it came up in the context of a conversation but this OP is a perfect example of vegan / vegetarian stereotypes.

[fleur-de-lisa]

83. Umm, okay?

[TipTok]

84. Maybe you wouldn't find it odd...

... if someone walked up to your group and started off a conversation with the same bit.

From the posts here, it seems that most folks would.

[fleur-de-lisa]

87. I'm not sure what you mean by 'your group' . . .

This was posted in GD.

I didn't find the OP to be sanctimonious, just stating an opinion.

[TipTok]

88. Imagine if you were standing in a group of peers...

... having various conversations and that one just popped out of the blue with no context or reason.

No one is saying that he can't but it's a little bit socially weird.

It's like that guy who jumps in a conversation about politics and declares how crossfit changed his life. It's not wrong... Its just awkward.

[fleur-de-lisa]

89. Okay, but I would have just ignored it if I didn't agree.

Many posters seem to delight in mocking the OP.

[TipTok]

91. Self inflicted wound...

[fleur-de-lisa]

92. Perhaps . . .

I have a migraine this morning and my meds are making me loopy. So maybe it's just me.

[TipTok]

93. Good luck...

[Luminous Animal]

214. If I posted that I had was proud to give up alcohol. That giving up alcohol made my life better...

would that be sanctimonious?

[TipTok]

216. Only if you implied...

... That everyone else who continued to drink was doing something wrong.

[Luminous Animal]

217. Never implied anything. Just stated where I am at.

[TipTok]

232. Tell yourself whatever helps...

[kentauros]

220. It's exactly the same anywhere on the Internet with regards to vegetarianism.

There will always be the dicks that love to mock, because it gives them a little bit of enjoyment, for all of a few minutes. If they knew the feeling of creating joy in others, how it lasts far more than a few minutes, they might never mock another for the rest of their lives. But, I don't know psychology well enough to understand such minds.

Thankfully, there are a few out there who understand us vegetarians enough to be able to hold a conversation without automatically assuming we're being sanctimonious or stereotypical. Some of them even know how to make us joyful, such as one of my favorite chefs, Jamie Oliver. He's started including vegetarian and even vegan recipes on his sites and YouTube channel. I suspect it's mostly because he loves food, of any form.

Plus, everyone can eat vegetarian/vegan, unless they have specific food allergies (which restricts their diet whether they are also veg*n or not.) ("veg*n" is a nice shorthand 'word' for both terms, just so you know

[thereismore]

76. But... your animal has to eat meat. It's a law of nature. nt

[villager]

109. Guessing the animal hasn't industrialized the process to the point it's wrecking the climate, or

...flattening forests?

Just a guess.

[Javaman]

77. anthropomorphising animals is amusing.

if given the chance and the right circumstances, the animal wouldn't think twice about devouring you.

[msanthrope]

154. This. nt

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

78. Feel better patting yourself on the back?

My dog eats meat, so I'm pretty sure we still respect each other.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

85. aww. are you having a low self-esteem day and the internet to tell you how wonderful you are?

[dhill926]

94. good for you...

been veg for over 25 years and never looked back. And this thread is loaded with some fucked up, unnecessarily cruel posts. Agree to disagree, but don't be dicks about it...

[renate]

99. "agree to disagree, but don't be dicks about it..."

How about if I agree to agree with you? Well said!

[Svafa]

108. Yeah, I am surprised at the callousness here. I guess I expected better from progressives.

[leftyladyfrommo]

172. They know you are right.

They are just in denial because they want what they want.
How could you not know that slaughterhouses are just plain awful? Being nice to the animal before you kill the really isn't any better. We need to stop eating meat. It's bad or us, bad for the animals and bad for the planet.

I eat a little meat and I eat eggs and some fish once in a while but don't like myself for it.

[GGJohn]

243. Give up eating meat?

No thanks, you live your life as you see fit, others will live their lives as they see fit.

BTW, I've been a meat eater my entire life and I'm in perfect health for my advanced age.

[kentauros]

221. I'm not the least bit surprised.

There are certain topics for which DU's denizens literally pounce upon, seemingly for the "joy" of mocking others. Vegetarianism is one; furries is another, and the 'woo'.

DUers have been ridiculing their fellow members over these topics for as long as I've been a member. I don't see them ever stopping, except when this site is no longer active.

[Judi Lynn]

149. Great seeing your post. n/t

[KamaAina]

95. I guess I'll have my popcorn without butter

[MisterP]

97. remember kids, cheesecake's vegetarian and rum's vegan

[KamaAina]

101. However, beer is not necessarily vegan

Believe it or not, some beer, primarily British ales, is filtered with isinglass, an ingredient derived from fish bladders!

[kentauros]

222. Yeah, I had to give up Bass Ale because of that.

And Bass shows up in Monet and Picasso paintings!

This is an excellent site for figuring out beers, wines, and liquors for us

Barnivore - Your vegan beer, wine, and liquor guide

[KamaAina]

257. And in poetry.

A. E. Housman's "Terence, this is stupid stuff": "Say, for what were hop-yards meant, / Or why was Burton built on Trent?"

[kentauros]

261. You got me on that one!

I don't know poetry. I do wonder how far back any of these ales or drinks go within the arts. I'm sure there are brands older than Bass, but it's the only one I remember in paintings. It really stood out, almost like product placement

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. You know what is funny about this?

my conure likes her steak. No I am serious, And she eats some meat whenever I make it.

This is part of their diet in the wild as well.

[peace13]

102. You are awesome!

Science has show that plants have feelings. ....now what? Plants can't make noise without the help of the wind so we'll eat them first.

[Maedhros]

104. Consumption is part of nature.[n/t]

[Svafa]

110. And if humans were still hunter-gatherers, maybe you'd have a point.

But the environment in which we live is hardly "nature." Most humans do not need meat to be healthy, let alone survive. Why inflict unnecessary pain and harm on another living, feeling creature?

[Maedhros]

116. We are not separate from nature, just because of our techology.[n/t]

[closeupready]

112. Whatever. I am an enthusiastic carnivore, though

I DO restrict my meat purchases to Costco, which has a farm-to-table traceability policy under which they can attest to the wholesomeness of their food products.

[Warren DeMontague]

113. You realize that if Mr. Fluffypaws was 10 times bigger than he is, he'd eat you in a hot minute.

But, hey, we all gotta live how we feel right. I draw the line at mammals, I gave up red meat years ago. Still do fish and poultry since they feel more like distant tasty cousins than brothers and sisters.

But I respect your choice. Peace.

[NobodyHere]

148. I love that picture

[Major Nikon]

238. If properly prepared, he'd eat you anyway

...and take a nap immediately afterward

[Warren DeMontague]

247. Dogs, I think, love us. Cats view us as large pieces of meat which bring them smaller pieces of meat

[ScreamingMeemie]

127. Esther the Wonder Pig made me give up bacon.

I never did care for ham or pork, but the bacon was hard.

[Luminous Animal]

146. I thought bacon would be hard. I thought it was the one thing that would defeat me.

I only ate it about twice a year (also not a fan of ham or pork) and called it my bacon treat. Happily, I don't miss it at all.

I miss fried chicken which I only ate once a year.

[Tanuki]

171. How long have you been a vegan? Was it a gradual thing, or did you go cold turkey?

Speaking of which, do you miss having turkey at Thanksgiving? I respect your choice.

[michaz]

128. I do get some of what you are saying. I work in animal rescue...though it is mainly

dog and cat rescue and some equine rescue. I adopt, foster, transport and donate. I do eat some meat although not a lot. My problem is with the abuse that goes on with many of the slaughtering that takes place in many of the slaughter houses. The videos are out there and do not lie. There are many sick people that commit this abuse. In today's age it is not necessary and those involved should loose their jobs. As with any kind of abuse, it is disgusting and needs to be addressed.

[Glamrock]

134. I can look in my cats eyes

No problem. You should see the carcasses they bring as gifts. Proooooobably less humane than a factory farm. As a matter of fact, they look me in they eye when I eat meat. And it ain't with disdain it's with envy.

[pablo_marmol]

147. So glad I gave up eating radishes. So glad that I can look in any radish's eye and say...

Now, I look at you with respect. You are my sister. You are my brother.

[Judi Lynn]

151. So many refuse to recognize animals are conscious beings. Awareness is hard. Many won't make it. n/t

[leftyladyfrommo]

170. Animals are as conscious as we are.

The way we treat them makes me sick.

I eat a little meat but I wish I could find a way not to. I am a horrible cook. I keep working at it.

It's hard to be vegetarian in KC, the barbecue capital of the world.

[Major Nikon]

177. How many animals died to put your meal on the table?

If you think the answer is zero, you are probably wrong.

Awareness is hard. Many won't make it.

[handmade34]

152. the responses

to your thread are a reminder of the reasons why we can't have nice things


mostly vegan here... I care for the environment too much to be a willing partner in the destruction of it

I respect raising and killing one's own food but the vast majority of people dine on factory farmed meat and that's not a good thing

[Turin_C3PO]

175. Yea

I don't understand why people are being so callous with the OP, it's unnecessary and mean. I'm an omnivore but respect people of principle like vegans.

[oberliner]

153. Do you eat eggs or dairy products?

Or have you gone totally vegan?

[DinahMoeHum]

157. Whoop dee friggen doo doo.

By the way, if you eat fish. . .

[kentauros]

223. No, I don't eat fish.

And yet, I've had omnivores look at me sideways when I told them that fish was also meat (when our company was having a celebratory lunch at a seafood restaurant.) To the uninformed omnivore, only red meat is considered "meat" and nothing else can be included in its definition, not even pig, fowl, or fish/crustacean.

[DinahMoeHum]

241. Like I said: whoop dee friggen doo doo

[kentauros]

242. You posted something that encouraged a reply.

Maybe you should edit your initial post so that doesn't happen again.

[GliderGuider]

161. Everybody gets to hold their own beliefs in this life.

I eat nothing but meat, and it doesn't particularly bother me. Death gives life, life brings death. Circle of life and all that.

I still love and respect most animals more than most humans.

[hobbit709]

169. Researchers Have Found That Plants Know They Are Being Eaten

http://www.businessinsider.com/plants-know-they-are-being-eaten-2014-10

[mucifer]

176. Sending you hugs!

This place can really suck!

[Bettie]

179. Well, you made your dietary choice

if it makes you feel good and well-nourished, then that is wonderful.

Placing yourself on a pedestal as being a better human being than the lesser ones who do not walk in lockstep with you is not wonderful.

This posting seems like you are doing that and you'll strain something patting yourself on the back.

[Orrex]

182. I once stumbled upon a coyote in northwest Pennsylvania

It was a remarkable moment, both of us crouched eye to eye, and I really did feel a special bond with animals in that unexpected meeting. A real sense of kinship that transformed me profoundly.

And I said to the coyote: "You son of a bitch, that rabbit is your sister. You should eat tomatoes instead so that you can scold those who don't embrace your preachy and righteous lifestyle."

[Major Nikon]

193. The coyotes around here seem to eat mostly house cats

At least judging from all the signs on the light poles for missing cats. Some of my neighbors are pissed that the city doesn't do anything about them, and are apparently oblivious to the fact that coyotes are a native species while house cats aren't, and the reason why we have a coyote "problem" is because people keep providing them with a fresh supply of kitehs.

[fullautohotdog]

255. Hmm...

I should not have read that at work ...

[Marr]

184. Know how you can tell if someone's a vegan?

They'll tell you, over and over.

[kentauros]

224. Actually, that's only true of the ones that are -new- vegans.

Then it's akin to any protest-like topic. Once they've been a vegan for a few years, life steps in and they realize that you can't change people simply by telling them something over and over. All too often, it's best to leave people alone and let them figure things out for themselves.

I know. I've been a vegetarian now for over sixteen years. I can't change people's minds. I can only tell them why I am what I am and attempt to answer their questions. If they get snotty about my choices, I stop conversing with them.

[yewberry]

187. Nothing turns DUers into asshats faster than this topic.

If they somehow find out that you are veg*n, they will shit all over you just for the sake of doing it. Not everyone, but for every one who doesn't judge you, you'll get two "Mmmm, bacon" responses and a "How do you find the vegan in the room?" If you make some kind of pronouncement that can in any way be interpreted as feeling superior (which is what you have done here), it reinforces all the bad stuff they already think of us.

[pintobean]

195. It didn't come up in casual conversation.

It's an OP attempting to make people feel guilty for not being like them. I really don't care what you eat. Get all pompous and condescending because I'm not exactly like you, and asshat is what you get. It's a reciprocal thing.

[yewberry]

203. Did you fail to read my last sentence?

But thanks for the disgusting photo. Much appreciated.

[TipTok]

239. Looks pretty good...

Maybe a bit too much sauce...

OP reaped exactly what they sowed by acting in the most stereotypical manner possible.

[yewberry]

254. Thereby proving my point.

Fucking gross, but thanks so much for sharing, and only because, what, you don't like my choices?

[TipTok]

256. I couldn't care less about your choices...

I'm just letting you know about mine in the same forthright manner of the OP.

[yewberry]

258. You decided to post something offensive to me

simply because you didn't like something someone else said.

Sounds like the behavior I was describing, doesn't it?

[Quackers]

234. I like this photo better

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[zappaman]

260. !!!

[Major Nikon]

196. Sure, unless you think too much about that soyburger

http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/footprint/agriculture/soy/impacts/

[shrike]

197. Animals do not look at you and say "You are my brother (or sister)."

They look at you as a threat or a source of food. (In certain cases, a companion.) They don't think in moral terms. They don't think in terms of ethics. That's a human thing. As a matter of fact, they don't think at all; at least in the way that we do.

[Purveyor]

201. I'm so glad this forum has a "Trash this thread" feature... eom

[marew]

202. I gave up meat 30 years ago...

And never regretted it once. Also use cruelty-free products. Have 7 pets- all but two are handicapped- blind, missing a leg, etc. They are all a joy!

Feelin' the Bern!

[Mendocino]

204. Fear not the path of truth

for the lack of people walking on it.

[gwheezie]

205. Wow some people are very committed to meat

So much so it makes them mad at vegetarians.

[Major Nikon]

207. or sanctimony

[Luminous Animal]

215. If I a had posted that I had given up alcohol and that doing so made be feel better would

that be sanctimony?

[Major Nikon]

235. Depends on whether you tried to lay a guilt trip on everyone who still drinks

[Bettie]

211. It is actually about the sanctimony

this thread had no purpose other than self-congratulation for the OP.

[Luminous Animal]

212. So, if I said I am glad that I stopped drinking because it made my life better

that would be sanctimonious? Sure it would be self-congratulation but is self-congratulation a bad thing?

If I said that I stopped drinking because it was taking a physical and psychic toll on my life, how would you feel if people responded with posts of bottles of alcohol?

[Bettie]

219. If you spoke of how it affected you personally without

injecting moral judgements about others, then that would be fine.

Some of us are not vegan. Some are.

Some of us are not vegetarian. Some are.

What you choose to eat or not eat does not make you a more moral person.

Some of us drink alcohol. Some don't.

Some of us drink tea. Some don't.

Again, what you choose to drink or not drink doesn't make you a more moral person.

These are simply personal choices.

I hate tea. I don't like seafood. I don't suggest that those who like these things are somehow morally inferior, I just don't consume them.

And before you accuse me of "reading something into your words", the whole "they are my brothers now" bit assumes that those who choose to consume dairy products or meat, automatically have no care for animals. I'm not the only one who got that.

I know a lot of people on the vegetarian continuum. Most of them are people who make their choices and accept that others make their own.

A few, I will never go to dinner with again, after getting a lecture on the evils of cheese or whatever is the hot vegan button of the day for them.

You seem to belong in the second group, the group of vegans who will work hard to ruin everyone's dinner by being obnoxious to make yourself feel superior.

[jonno99]

227. +1 nt

[Major Nikon]

237. The great thing about analogies is they can make complicated subjects simpler

It's very telling when someone uses them for the reverse.

[Rex]

265. Their animals eat meat too, who could have guessed?

The point is really silly, but it is a DU staple.

[OkSustainAg]

230. I grow and raise my own food.

I also butcher my own meat. I reuse, recycle, compost and create more with less than the majority of people. My electrical use is so low. I let what grows normally here thrive. I raise goats. I have no need to spray to kill plants. Goats will eat anything. Big cities are were the majority of waste comes from. Especially electricity. If we stopped creating 30 different brands of corn chips there would be a lot less impact on the environment. Duplication wastes more resources. That is why it is time for a new kind of economics.

[greyl]

233. Other than human animals who eat meat you mean? nt

[B Calm]

236. Just like my animals, I like meat!

[ileus]

240. meat is murder!

[malthaussen]

248. Trees, however, absolutely hate you.

One query I have for vegetarians, what if it became reasonably certain that plants have feelings, too? Then you can no longer assert that your survival is not dependent on the pain of other sentient beings. I find this question interesting, because in many ways your survival already depends on the pain and exploitation of other sentient beings, whether you would have it so or not. We can, it appears, compartmentalize or ignore this fact, and clearly if plants suffer, we must also accept that we live on their pain as well. Arguably, all we can do is lessen our footprint as much as possible, and thus abstaining from inflicting suffering on animals is a way of doing so; but in any case, suffering will be inflicted for your convenience, and all we come down to is what suffering we are prepared to inflict, and what not.

-- Mal

[Luminous Animal]

263. I live my from what I know. Do you live your life from what you know?

We know that piglets have their teeth pulled out with pliers and their tails cut off and their ball cut off with zero benefit of pain killers,

Yum yum.

We know that calves are separated from their mothers and both the calf and the mother cry. We know that often that calf is enclosed in a pen without their mother and slaughtered a few months later.

Yeah. They are just dumb animals who are forced to birth another calf who is taken away and then another episode of grief. And then another and then another and then another. A lifetime of grief and exploitation until they are hauled off to the glue factory.

Have you met a cow. Have you laid down with a cow. Have you skritched a cow abbot a cow's ears. Have you patted a cow's haunch. Have you ever looked into a cow's eyes and sweetly said, " Hey, what a good cow, such a beautiful cow, best cow in the world."

[GaYellowDawg]

266. That last paragraph is ridiculous.

Have you met a cow.

Yep. Grew up in east Tennessee. Met bunches of them.

Have you laid down with a cow.

What the FUCK does that even mean? Laid down with a cow? Are you talking about just nestling up to a cow as it's sleeping in a pasture? Even if you set aside the prospects of ticks and worms - which are present in any pasture you can think of - that's a great way of startling a cow and having it take off in a panic. Seriously. That question tags you as what many of my family would call "ignorant city folk." It's not a dog that you can snuggle with. It's a cow, and it will most likely trample you to get away from you.

Have you skritched a cow abbot a cow's ears.

Other than the hilarious typo, which makes me want to yell "Hey Abbott!" - wow. "Skritched." How cute. How very Charles Schultz Peanuts of you. You mean scratched. Trying to be cute doesn't make a cow a pet. Speaking of, though, I guess your only experience with cows is at petting zoos, which don't reflect reality too well. Most cows aren't going to let you come close enough to scratch them.

Have you patted a cow's haunch.

No, because that's a great way to get a swift kick. You do that to a normal cow, and you'll have a hoofprint somewhere on your person. Have you ever met an actual cow? You know, not in a cartoon or a petting zoo? Or did you get all your ideas on cows from Alicia Silverstone?

Have you ever looked into a cow's eyes and sweetly said, " Hey, what a good cow, such a beautiful cow, best cow in the world."

No. Have you ever located the question mark on the keyboard? But back to the cow: a normal cow isn't going to gaze lovingly into your eyes. It's going to kick you or take off. And even if it didn't, a cow is too damn dumb to understand you. I've seen cows standing in a stream, drinking from the stream downstream as they're pissing in it upstream. There's no nobility, no wise, beautiful bovine soul, no there there. A cow is not your sister, nor is it a being. It is a biological machine that runs on instinct. If you don't want to eat one, whatever. That's fine. Your choice - you can have your arugula-kale salad with a side glass of wheat grass extract and feel all fine about yourself. But you look like a complete clown when you start in on lying down with cows and sweet-talking them.

[eleny]

262. Olive Garden

Just sayin'.

[Rex]

264. My animals all eat meat, they are omnivores so I don't feel bad about

chowing down on a chicken fried steak.