Abortion.

[qwlauren35]

I posted a thread the other day about my fears that Roe v. Wade would be overturned, and someone replied (not verbatim) what's the big deal, it just becomes a states issue.

It's a HUGE deal. There's something going on called Targeted Regulation of Abortion Provider (TRAP) laws, and they are passing overwhelmingly in states with Republican control. Over half of the states in the US have them. Its an insidious situation and shouldn't be made light of... unless abortion rights just aren't that important...

Some women's groups have noticed that abortion has not been a topic of the Democratic debates, even though the Supreme Court is about to make a major decision on it, and it is a hot issue for many American women.

Abortion rights shape how I vote, and who I campaign for. When US Senate Candidate Donna Edwards said "we have to stop treating abortion like a dirty word when it's such a major part of many women's lives" I was totally on board with her. She gets it. Women are made to be afraid to admit to having abortions because it is now so stigmatized. Now the irony, is that abortion is supposed to be something very private. But not something you have to be ashamed of. Because that means that you're supposed to be ashamed of your sexuality. And of having sex, and of having an "oops". Or, you're supposed to be ashamed of being raped, and being scared that you'll conceive. Did you notice how many Republican candidates are now saying that EVEN in the case of rape, a woman must keep the child. That's INSANE. But that is what we've come to.

Now, I know this thread will drop like a lead balloon. This is not a hot DU issue. Like the economy or global warming or the 1% or single payer healthcare...

But it should be. It should be something DU is closely watching, and taking an active interest in, maybe signing petitions to the Supreme Court, or lobbying their state assemblies about. The fact that it is not says a lot about DU.

https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/gpr/16/2/gpr160207.html

[elleng]

1. Right,

"we have to stop treating abortion like a dirty word when it's such a major part of many women's lives."

[Wounded Bear]

2. If I remember my history correctly....

States have a shitty record when it comes to individual rights. "States' rights" is the common defense when conserves want to get away with shit like discrimination and in this case, banning abortion.

The only real defense against the state and local governments overreaching and abusing individual rights is the Federal government. Corporations won't do it, NGOs can't do it.

Having lived through the 60's (not as an activist, sadly) I know that it takes the Feds, sometimes, to step in and correct some problems perpetrated and continued by state and local governments. We're having to re-fight some of those battles now, including women's right to choose how to handle their bodies and sex lives.

[haikugal]

3. States rights are bad for human rights. We need to pay attention. Hillary isn't as good on this as

Bernie....vote for Bernie he will look out for us and we need to fight back!

[Control-Z]

4. Kick

and rec, of course. I know Hillary is sending money for down ticket dems. I hope Sanders is too.

To start we need to take over the Senate and some governorships. And we need a new justice named to the SCOTUS. Young college students need to be educated about the risks to them if we continue on this backward path.

It breaks my heart that states are taking away our legal options.The creative ways these horrid republicans are coming up with to block a woman's right to choose are infuriating and dangerous. Now they want to go after contraceptives. I hope our nominee starts talking about how important it is to work on the local level once s(he) had been decided on.

[qwlauren35]

11. Yes, in my mind, it's the governorships.

If we had Democrats for governors, they would veto this BULLSHIT.

[Arazi]

5. Kicked and recced!! eom

[Orrex]

6. Reproductive rights are one of my top issues in any election cycle

I have never met anyone who was indifferent about Roe v. Wade who was not simply deluded into thinking that the ruling can have no bearing on him or her.

Anyone who preaches about "refusing to settle for the lesser evil" is naive and myopic. A Republican in the Whitehouse would be an abomination and would set back reproductive freedom a century or more.

[TBF]

7. Income inequality -

is my number one issue for many reasons, and one is that rich women never have an issue getting an abortion. They may have to fly somewhere other than their home city, but it's an inconvenience at most. This is not GD: P so I'll not get into details, but be careful to research both of the candidates on this and see what they've said very recently (especially about late term abortion).

[CharlotteVale]

8. It is my #1 issue and line in the sand.

[gollygee]

9. This is the reason

That Bernie sanders will need to vote for Hillary, or Hillary voters will need to vote for Bernie, should that candidate get the nomination.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

10. This is a very important issue to me.

I am a woman and I have never had an abortion, but I support all women who have had one or will need one in the future. It could have easily been me that needed one, so I understand. I think that reproductive health rights are key to women being able to govern themselves.

[qwlauren35]

12. You really hit the nail on the head.

And I think it's something men really don't understand. Having/keeping a child is a life changing decision. It takes up tremendous amounts of time, energy, money. It may require support of an entire family, or tremendous government financing in food, housing and money. It may force a woman into a low paying job because she no longer has the time for the studying involved with college, or maybe even high school, depending on when she has the child. Only the most determined, committed women with incredible family resources or money can overcome these challenges. So, if you want to give examples of women who have made it, with children out of wedlock, I can give you many more of women who don't make it. Who are stuck in poverty or semi-poverty, uneducated, and perhaps demoralized.

And don't think that married women have it that much better. An unplanned child can wreck a marriage, an unplanned child can be a financial burden that is unbearable. An unplanned child is a major lifestyle change that may be more than a couple can manage, because they just aren't capable.

And we haven't talked about rape and incest.

Reproductive rights are so important to women, there are no words.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

16. There are some men that do understand,

but there are a lot of men that don't. I just want to make it clear that there are still a lot of men out there that do understand how important reproductive rights are for women and they understand that it isn't just an women's issue. It starts off as a women's issue, but it is also a men's issue. For any men that actually care about the women in their lives, it is their issue too. I just have to say this for my husband because it bothers him a lot when women claim that men don't understand or care about these things. He at least does. I know other guys do too, but the problem is that some men don't get it. There are also women that don't get it... which is crazy to me, but it is true. A lot of women that have privileged lives seem to think this kind of thing doesn't involve them.

[qwlauren35]

25. Men who get it.

NARAL did an event last year showcasing 11 male celebrities who "get it".

http://www.buzzfeed.com/naral/11-menforchoice-celebrities-we-love-enks

It's an interesting list, there may be some surprises, it made me think about each man differently. Because here was a man who was taking a stand in support of abortion rights. Just made me respect them.

So yes, some men get it. A LOT of men get it. I think the ones who don't get more attention because they kill people, bomb clinics, head committees in Congress, initiate ridiculous legislation on the state level, or sign it... yeah, they get the attention.

So men who get it need to stand up and make some noise.

[trotsky]

13. You bet it's an important issue.

Just to kind of build on one thing you said (being ashamed of your sexuality) - I had a discussion with a rather rabidly conservative coworker once about abortion. I said, you do realize that sometimes birth control fails, and a woman becomes pregnant. Shouldn't she be able to get an abortion then? His only response: "Well, she shouldn't have had sex." That's it in a nutshell, I think. The vast majority of anti-choicers really resent women having sexual freedom, and they think that women should bear whatever "punishment" results from enjoying that freedom, whether it be pregnancy or disease. Sad thing is, when the HPV vaccine was a hot topic on DU, there were DUers exhibiting this same prudishness, insisting that women who have recreational sex should have to face the consequences!

[qwlauren35]

15. And I wish I had an answer.

I think as a country, there will always be a double standard. Men are allowed to have recreational sex, but women are not supposed to. No idea who these women are that the men are having recreational sex with, but no one seems to think that through. Or rather, the women are labeled, but the men are not.

Women who have recreational sex need options. The men should be wearing condoms, but cannot be counted on. Women who have recreational sex need good contraceptive options. Women having recreational sex usually do NOT want to get pregnant, and should not be expected to keep a fetus, especially since they are probably not ready to have children, and probably will not have the support of the sire of the child. If they know who it is.

Me personally, I do not believe that women who are in a stage in their lives where they are sleeping with multiple men should have children. But that's just me.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

17. Double standard doesn't make any sense

unless these men that have recreational sex are all having it with other men. A lot of them want women as partners, so it can't be OK for men and not women. It doesn't make sense to me any how.

[trotsky]

19. Side questions often illuminate these issues well.

Like when I asked my coworker about what happens when birth control fails.

The other one that always makes for "squirmy" responses is when you ask anti-choicers, if abortion were made illegal, what should be the punishment for women who get one? Many of them think they have an answer by saying they wouldn't punish the woman, only the abortion provider. But that of course neglects the well-documented fact that women without access to safe, legal abortion will often times take matters into their own hands - at great personal risk to themselves. What then? I mean, the world many anti-choicers envision will basically require a criminal investigation every time a woman miscarries. I'm sure the MEN of the anti-choice movement are fine with that. The women, I suspect not so much. Especially ones who may have had miscarriages.

[FSogol]

14. K & R. n/t

[hfojvt]

18. England

I still think the point stands.

If you look at abortion by state

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7663479

New York, California (assuming it has as many as New York), and Illinois account for a huge number of abortions.

If abortion becomes illegal in say Missouri, Montana, Mississippi and Nevada, that is about 20,000 women who will not be able to have abortions.

Meanwhile there still will be over 200,000 abortions in California and New York.

As in, the vast majority of women who want abortions will still be able to get them.

Optimistically I think you might find that it would stay legal in Florida as well. Texas? Well, that might be tough.

Again, even South Dakota voted against a ban. Even if they had voted for it a) only 600 abortions take place in SD, and b) women would likely still be able to get abortions in Minnesota and on Indian reservations, etc.

[trotsky]

20. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Those 20,000 women who are hypothetically denied abortions in Missouri, Montana, Mississippi, and Nevada should have the same rights as the 200,000 in California and New York. "Oh just go to a nearby state or Indian reservation" you say? Not that a woman should have to resort to either of those, but what do you say if neither is an option? What then?

[LanternWaste]

21. Should this sentiment of disenfranchisement to the minority of women apply to any other medical proc

"the vast majority of women who want abortions will still be able to get them."

Should this sentiment of disenfranchisement to a minority of women apply to any other medical procedures as well?

[haele]

22. Abortion is not just one procedure for one situation.

The abortion procedure is typically defined as:
- Natural miscarriage (typically health related)
- Induced miscarriage (typically an accident, self-inducement, or prescribed pill/drug/injection induced)
- Dilatation and Curtilage procedure (D&C) (a surgical procedure - outpatient)
- Dilatation and Extraction procedure (D&X) (a surgical procedure – outpatient)

The abortion procedure is not just used for the removal of live fetuses due to a situation where there is an unwanted pregnancy, in approximately 1 in 60 times, it is also used for other cervical or uterine conditions, such as the removal of dead or otherwise unviable fetuses, or remainders from a miscarriage, and for other reproductive organ situations such as endometriosis, cancer or fibroid tumors.

Those 20,000 Missouri women so casually identified in the above post as seeking abortions this year are not just the weak-minded females who are seeking to avoid responsibility by trying to end an otherwise healthy pregnancy that political (and religious) bloviaters like to hold up as “the face of abortion seekers”.
At least 5,000 to 6,000 of those women who are dismissed will have a medical condition that needs to be addressed, or they will suffer needless and lingering pain and distress, potentially become sterile, or potentially become dead. (On edit - ) While some women can just find an out of state doctor who will help them, most of these women don't have the resources to go through the hoops that might get them to somewhere where they can get referred to a doctor who will do the procedure. So they just suffer. Or go sterile. Or die. For a medical condition or a dead fetus that is just rotting away inside of them, and hopefully, they will pass whatever is going wrong inside them before it does serious permanent damage.
I had a great-great aunt die from septic shock when she was almost due because the miscarriage of #5 just wouldn't pass. This was in the 1920's in Liberty, Missouri, and she left 4 children that had to be farmed out among the rest of the family, because her husband lost it and ran off.

These “TRAP” laws and the outright vilification of doctors who practice, mention, or even try to learn about any number of safe abortion procedures as part of a women’s reproductive health procedure is not only dangerous, it’s hypocritical.

However, the popular media and casual citizen don’t want to consider why safe and available abortion procedures are a crucial part of reproductive health – they just pruriently like to think they’re teaching stupid young sluts an important “life lesson” while saving innocent babies - without actually doing anything. Sort of a cultural “Just say no to Casual Sex” – as if the law requires that a good citizen shouldn’t even think about sex until they’re either ready to or can afford to have the baby.
Oh, and women’s reproductive systems are controlled by God.

Haele

[AwakeAtLast]

23. And rich women will always have access

Whether legal or not. It should remain legal so that ALL women have access.

[Solly Mack]

24. K&R

[HassleCat]

26. You're right. Should be a major issue.

Democrats have been slowly retreating on this issue for a long time. We need to draw a line in the sand.

[VOX]

27. K & R... n/t