General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDo Organic Growers Use ‘Hazmat’ Suits?
Last edited Fri Mar 11, 2016, 02:46 PM - Edit history (2)
http://iowameetsmaui.com/2014/11/17/do-organic-growers-use-hazmat-suits/"I came across this image the other day. A farmer spraying his field wearing a protective suit and face respirator. When I see this, I see a farmer keeping himself and those around him safe. When activists look at this, they seem to see a scary hazmat suit and chemical poisoning. The beauty of this photo, is that it was taken from a video about an organic cauliflower grower in California. This farmer is spraying a natural soap spray. Obviously, this spray poses some danger to the tractor operator, or he wouldnt be using this Personal Protective Equipment (PPE). Compliments are in order to this business for instituting safe handling practices.
What constitutes a harmful substance? Well, just about everything on earth is harmful to us if not used properly, so knowing when to use PPE is important. The National Pesticide Information Center lists 4 signal words to look for on a label. Listed from least toxic to most toxic, these words are: Caution, Warning, Danger, and Danger/Poison. A quick glance through my own cupboard revealed household cleaners with three of these signal words. Here are examples of substances from each category and the PPE they require:
...
What we see in these examples is that a chemical with a signal word of Warning, that is labeled for organic production, requires far more Personal Protective Equipment than one with a signal word of Danger/Poison. This doesnt mean that the Lorsban 4E is safer, just that it has different requirements in PPE for the applicator. Almost all farmers use pesticides, and its likely that they will at some point need some form of protective equipment organic and conventional growers alike."
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Hazmat suit on GM fields: used by anti-GMO activists (not researchers) to spread fear
From:
http://debunkingdenialism.com/2013/08/25/decimating-the-flawed-beliefs-of-anti-gmo-activists/
"In July of 2011, anti-GMO activists dressed up in Hazmat suits destroyed fields trials of genetically modified wheat at CSIRO (the national science agency in Australia) facility in Canberra. They caused damage for around 300 000 USD and set back research at least a year. According to Jeremy Burdon, the industry plant chief, Hazmat suits are not worn by researchers working on GM field trials because there are no hazards there. Researchers working with the genetically modified wheat call the hazmat suits theatrical and a publicity stunt, designed to mislead the public and spread unwarranted fear (Bettles, 2011)."
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More on these deceitful memes:
http://christopherkeelty.com/this-is-my-beef-with-the-anti-gmo-folks/
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Once again we learn that scary memes are often FOS, especially when propagated by anti-GMO extremism.
OkSustainAg
(203 posts)spray any of my fruits and veggies. I have apples and pears. No waxes and poison here.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)when you produce enough per acre to feed the planet without more deforestation, write up your methods, and get it published.
OkSustainAg
(203 posts)hundreds of people how to be more sustainable. In real life. I recently have started talking about it on the internet. I am not a writer. I am a farmer.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)You're a marketer more than anything else.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Lots of people have gardens. They're great. They're not very efficient in terms of production. Why respond with nothing but the usual meme claims?
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)So what?
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)How much does your 'front yard garden' produce?
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Enough sweet peppers to do some canning. A regular supply of cucumbers. Plenty of herbs. Shade keeps me limited, but those trees are needed.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)that would be more then enough for a year- for a family? And more to trade.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 11, 2016, 02:40 PM - Edit history (1)
We give away at least half them, have plenty to eat fresh for three months, and then lots and lots of canning happens. Still, we would never come close to feeding ourselves. It's just for fun.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)San Marzano Redorta, Cuore di Bue, Romano Costaluto, and Liguria tomatoes. I can over 100 quarts and I use every quart throughout the summer. I also grow about thirty Jimmy Nardello peppers (there is no finer sweet pepper), and 50 Bacio di Satana peppers plants. As you likely guess, I am italian American.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)About thirty buds.
People where there are no rats? How do you keep things from eating your tomatoes?
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)My dogs aren't outside dogs but they go out frequently and that tends to have 'critters' stay away, move on.
My dogs catch (and kill) an occasional rat, I'm in Houston near lots of people. I haven't seen a raccoon or opossum in years.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)I did grow some corn one year, but the squirrels took that for themselves. I haven't bothered again. Besides, when I get 8 ears for a buck at the same time I would be harvesting, there's not much point.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)prevent a troubling amount of Americans from growing any food for themselves.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Where I live no one is going to get far telling others what to do with their yards.
REP
(21,691 posts)I can't imagine anyone wanting to have their entire lot planted wall-to-wall corn, especially on the usual 1/8 acre or smaller lot.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)This is part of how the anti-GMO movement sucks people in with "feel good" silliness like this.
My lot is actually about an acre, but it's clay. If I filled it with corn, there'd be no place for the chickens to forage, and I'd have to truck in a few tons of topsoil ... but instead of my view of redwood forest and mountains, I could gaze out upon endless corn.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)And who would have the time to tend to such fields in this world? Most people would not, I don't think.
REP
(21,691 posts)you could grow so much corn!
See my post down thread about how much it costs to "save 100s" with a garden. (I do can almost everything that can be canned in my yard, but luckily I have old, established plants that thrive on neglect.)
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Sounds like a definite plan!
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)just a couple of each growing on my fences and we get a lot of berries & many pounds of grapes. The grapes I was really surprised how well they did no care at all., 3 little plants and the next year they were huge and full of fruit.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)They can vary in output here, most summers are mild, but the last two have been very warm, and so things have been bountiful. Of course, I've also had to water much more frequently.
Truth be told, I prefer the cooler summers, but there advantages to the warmth, too.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)A small bit of land can produce enough to save a family $100s at the grocery store.
And I think front "lawn"s are a horrible waste of useable space.
REP
(21,691 posts)The soil will allow planting of certain plants
Time and knowledge to tend and harvest plants
Time and knowledge to can excess production
To "save" that money, things must be purchased:
Seeds
Topsoil if soil is poor
Gardening tools
Shade cloth
Plant supports
Fertilizer
Insecticides
Fungicides
Canner (pressure canner for low-acid produce)
Canning rack
Cans
Lifter
Canning funnel
Etc
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)(you need a shovel to turn a hill)
Lancero
(2,979 posts)Dry out a bit of the harvest for seeds
.
Gardening tools don't need to be purchased each year. The same shovel, hoe, rake and tiller will last for years.
Shade cloth isn't that much of a necessity, though admittedly this would vary from place to place.
Most plant supports can be reused for years.
Canning equipment would be reusable as well. The jars themselves are reusable too, you'd just need to get new bands for them.
Even then though, dehydrating and freezing are both alternatives to canning.
Major Nikon
(36,814 posts)A small greenhouse with an aquaponics setup can support virtually all of the nutritional requirements for a family of 4. Some people are even doing it in basements and garages with artificial lighting.
Major Nikon
(36,814 posts)Sustainability is certainly a laudable goal, but proclaiming that one must never spray anything in order to do so just doesn't make that much sense and neither does proclaiming all pesticides are "poison". Salt and caffeine are "poison" in the right dose and so is water for that matter.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)Integrated Pest Management is a must. Now they could be using all organic pesticides and fungicides. There are many. Neem to name one. It's still smart to wear a bunny suit. Spray goes everywhere and even if it's organic it can irritate the skin. Poison ivy is organic. Don't want it to touch your skin.
If your crop is healthy, organic treatments are great
as preventative. If your crop comes down with a malady it's difficult to beat on a grand scale with organics.
These are just the facts of farming. Knew a certified organic tomato farmer that spent years trying to beat Russet Mites. Finally decertified just so he could spray something that would cure the problem...or he would've lost his farm.
I think it's important people start to educate themselves more on pesticides/fungicides. Not all are going to give you cancer. And many, if used at the proper time, are gone from the plant by the time harvest comes around.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)womanofthehills
(8,579 posts)uses turkeys to eat the insects.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)AxionExcel
(755 posts)Why do you waste our time with these Digital Stoning Parties aimed at clean food?
Such a waste of everyone's time. No point in coming back to this thread.
Please go eat your GMO-Chemical Hormone-injected rations quietly in the corner.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)You keep posting claims that are actually debunked daily.
"Clean food."
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/should-you-be-eating-clean/
Major Nikon
(36,814 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Especially when its cold outside, even if just your face uncovered the mist will run down to the tractor seat
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Recursion
(56,582 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 11, 2016, 01:36 PM - Edit history (1)
http://dontwastethecrumbs.com/2015/03/14-facts-the-organic-industry-doesnt-want-you-to-know/"...
(1) Pesticides are allowed in organic production.
...
(2) Some natural chemicals used in organic farming are carcinogenic.
...
(3) Organic pesticides arent always as effective as synthetic, and may require more application in order to achieve the same protection.
..."
REP
(21,691 posts)The main components of most insecticidal soap are alcohol and soap. In my little greenhouse, applying it with a pump sprayer isn't a big deal, but if I were applying it to acres and acres of fields ... I'd wear at least face and breathing protection.
pediatricmedic
(397 posts)A number of posts in this thread give a good example of that lack of understanding.
REP
(21,691 posts)And they could fill that with corn! CORN!
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)and 3 bushels of corn off the seeds I planted in a 'done' compost pile (from the hens house wood chip litter) That composted area was about only 20 x 20. I crammed the seeds in there and they sprouted within 2 days.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)like the OP. For that matter, the OP topic would be a good platform for intelligent conversation on the limitations of industrial scale organic farming, on integrated pest management as a tool for reducing the need for pesticides, etc.
Instead it's just another immature salvo from the biggest proponent of GMOs on DU.
Major Nikon
(36,814 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)so why the new, absurd flamebait thread rather than a serious discussion? Oh right, because serious discussion is more work.
Major Nikon
(36,814 posts)So it seems a bit strange as to why you'd do so with this one, especially when it's an attempt to counter the aforementioned immature nonsense.
Believe it or not that same bullshit meme is being used over and over in threads which are a genuine attempt at engaging in rational discussion on the subject, along with a never ending stream of nonsense like this....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022429058#post6
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Seriously?
Major Nikon
(36,814 posts)Especially when there's nothing immature or flamebait about the OP. Included in the OP is this link which is maturely addressing a very real, deceptive, immature, and all too often tactic of the anti-GMO folks. Believe it or not, this is something that very much transcends just this website.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)That thread's OP promotes deceitful propaganda. How is anyone going to discuss anything after that. You don't seem to be very objective here.
Heck, you don't call out those OPs at all. Now, why is that?
And you really should justify your claim about this OP. It is not flamebait at all. It is addressing flamebait. There is a very big difference.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Because it's railing about organics and anti-GMOers without context (apparently YOU were reacting to other OPs but that's not evident in yours) as if looking for some flaming reaction. A link to the thread or threads you were reacting to or a statement about them would have been helpful.
You then replied with considerable snark to a poster who talked about 'sustainable' practices for home gardeners. That was flamey.
As for the thread linked by Major Nikon, that was also flamebait and it had already been discussed to death when I saw it.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)His posts here were meant to distract from the actual content of the OP, by pretending that he does something everyone should be doing.
Your history appears to be one that supports anti-GMO stances. I don't think you're being honest here. Further, the other OP is ten times the flamebait. The fact that you didn't start there remains telling.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Big difference. I'm also annoyed when GMO backers conflate hybridization and GE in order to convince people that there's no potential harm in the latter (it's as dumb as when the anti-GMOers confuse pesticide/herbicides with GMO crops.)
On DU I've read at least one really good defense of GMOs penned by a scientist (MikeC.) Most of the time it's nonsense barbs posted on both sides with an occasional intelligent post lost in the middle.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)And the fact that there is no justification for such labeling does make your stance anti-GMO. Your last comment shows that you are either not being honest, or haven't bothered to read much, btw.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)The ONLY reason there is a push against labeling is that the ag and food industries recognize that consumer sentiment is overwhelmingly against GMOs in the food supply, just as it was overwhelmingly against irradiated food. Labeling is a profit-killer unless the industries can convince consumers of a benefit (and calling consumers 'anti-science' is not going to convince anyone.)
As for your last comment, I've read a lot of threads on this topic. The dishonesty is on your part.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)They have created myths about GMOs that are ludicrous, all aimed at increasing number their profits. Wake up. You have been conned
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Because of ONE modified Cheeto...THIS all happened! Series!
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)That has what to do with the topic?
Are you pushing the shill gambit?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024512365#post5
You do realize that is just plain creepy. Just because it's not a supposed obscenity, doesn't mean that's not the full intent.
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)is NOT the topic?
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)I'm already bored with your tired schtick. So you're getting the Batman treatment again.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027419447#post56
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Didn't you just offer up a classic childhood comment about a mirror?
Oh, goodness.
Why do hate laughter? Oh, you're not trying to make me laugh?
Well...
Do you have anything to add to the discussion?
Do you think deceitful memes are ethical?
BTW, thanks for the kicks.
womanofthehills
(8,579 posts)promoting GMO's . How sad is that!
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)promoting fictions and pseudoscience. How sad is that!
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Are you cool with such silliness?
Really?
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)I miss those bees.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Those suits are awesome...