Secret weld: How shoddy parts disabled a $2.7 billion submarine

[jpak]

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/03/27/minnesota-two-years-in-the-yards-virginia-class-attack-sub/81600432/

n early 2015 engineers on a brand-new submarine made a troubling find: A pipe joint near the innermost chamber of its nuclear-powered engine showed signs of tampering.

The defective elbow pipe, used to funnel steam from the reactor to the sub's propulsion turbines and generators, showed evidence of jury-rigged welding that could've been designed to make it appear satisfactory. But the part was already installed, the sub already commissioned.

These defective parts, each probably valued on the order of $10,000 or less, have kept the $2.7 billion attack submarine Minnesota languishing in an overhaul for two years, while engineers attempt to cut out and replace a difficult to reach part near the nuclear reactor. Meanwhile, Navy engineers are scouring aircraft carriers and other submarines for problems and criminal investigators are gathering evidence.

The unauthorized parts are impacting three new Virginia-class attack submarines, likely extending the post-shakedown overhauls for the other two subs and adding greatly to the final tab at a time these fearsome vessels are needed around the globe to defend carrier groups and strike America's adversaries. It's also trapped its crew in limbo as repair deadlines come and go, while other subs must take their place.

<more>

[LiberalArkie]

1. That would not be a fund thing to find.

[kristopher]

2. Don't worry, nuclear power is safe. nt

[hueymahl]

4. Weird comment for this thread

I would have expected a comment about fraud, waste, abuse, excess military spending, etc. Almost a non-sequitur trying to use this as an example that all nuclear power is unsafe.

[kristopher]

12. Not at all.

Nuclear power is a poor choice as an energy source. There are excellent reasons that in ships it's used almost exclusively for military applications, and most of those reason transfer to the private power sector.

[hueymahl]

15. I don't disagree that it only makes sense for military applications

Which this is.

[kristopher]

16. And even when cost is no object...

[Volaris]

8. NAVAL nuclear power IS VERY safe...

Because it ain't Homer Simpson checking the gauges for as little as he can be paid. And for the record, if the NAVY wanted to build and operate a reactor in every State in the union, I would be all for it. It's because it's private corporations that would get contracts to build and operate (on For-Profit models) that I'm against having as many of them as we would need.

Outside Naval administration of sea-going warships, however, I agree with you. It's the world's most expensive and UNsafe way to boil water.

[MADem]

9. Good post. nt

[kristopher]

11. It doesn't matter who builds the reactors.

Nor the precautions that are planned to prevent problems. There is no system made that performs optimally in the 4 requisite areas:
Cost
Safety
Waste
Proliferation resistance.

When you correct problems in one area, performance in some other area inevitably degrades.

Nuclear is a poor choice as an energy source.

[hueymahl]

17. There is a fifth area that you left out

And the main reason nuclear is used in the military context - It gives you an almost limitless source of power - missions are not hampered by refueling issues. This goes 10x for subs - they can stay underwater (and thus hidden) vastly longer times when powered by nuclear. Nothing else comes close.

[kristopher]

19. That is important but..

it doesn't belong in the group I posted. That list is made up of the issues that the nuclear industry is faced with overcoming.

[hueymahl]

34. Yes, but the post is about nuclear subs

I appreciate your hammer-like dedication to the cause, but not everything is a nail.

[kristopher]

35. You're entitle to your opinion

And I'm entitled to consider it uninformed.

The post demonstrates that the nuclear power industry - both within the military and without - is subject to the same type of quality control failures as all other industries.

I really don't care if you think it's relevant because I am certain that it is.

[awoke_in_2003]

13. True, but we'd still have the problem of waste. nt

[The Second Stone]

23. Nuclear power, like all other power is contracted out to each

general and sub contractor on the basis of the lowest bid. One should expect corner cutting accordingly. Losing 100 tons of coal power that way only releases 100 tons of coal power. Releasing 50 tons of nuclear reactor (land reactor) power over a few weeks is a million times more energy.

[Rex]

3. Fearsome vessels...sounds more like second hand submarines.

Why are we wasting 2.7 billion dollars on an attack sub we don't need? Oh well, better then the F-35 boondoggle.

[hardluck]

22. Where'd you get the idea we don't need these subs?

There are tons of navy programs you can argue we don't need - the "little crappy ships," the Zumwalt class. You can make the argument that the new ford class carriers are not needed. However with the upcoming retirement of the LA class attack subs and the submarine gap we will face in the mid- to late 2020s I don't see how you can say these subs are not needed.

[lancer78]

25. "Submarine Gap"

Is that like the "Doomsday Gap" in Dr. Strangelove? What an utter and worthless waste of resources. Better to train 20 Seal Team Six's with the current global situation.

[Rex]

33. That's it right there, spot on!

No no no...we need to waste trillions on a new fleet of subs we will never use in their lifetimes!

[NutmegYankee]

36. They are in constant use now, with high cycles of deployment.

Your statement doesn't match reality.

[Rex]

37. Really so they serve their main function? And what is that exactly?

Waste of money, we have 10 times the next military...but hey wasting money is what is good for America!

[NutmegYankee]

38. Considering your strong unyielding opinion, i'm not going to waste my time explaining it.

[Rex]

39. But you wasted time by pretending I was wrong?

So thanks for agreeing with me then. Bye bye.

[NutmegYankee]

40. LOL. Cute response.

[A HERETIC I AM]

26. Kindly explain how they're needed.

Seriously.

The military has pulled the wool over the eyes of the American public and since World War 2 our foreign policy has done little more than create enemies that we must be protected from.

If only those adamant about spending money on military hardware at the rate we do in this country, would come out and admit is it all little more than a giant jobs program, then I'll leave well enough alone. But to continue to build ships, aircraft and assorted other weapons systems that have no mission (until it is conveniently created, that is), is little more than international dick wagging.

Those guys at Electric Boat in Groton know how to build a submarine that can last 50 years or more. The only reason we have to continuously build new submarines is because the local economy DEPENDS ON IT and Union Pipefitters, Steamfitters, Welders and the rest make damned good wages, all of it tax dollars, and those wages keep the economy of Eastern Connecticut humming along.


Just admit the military is a jobs program, and I'll never say another word about the incredibly stupid, fucking waste of money that building shit which has as its only purpose - killing people - is.

Because that's what a Nuclear Submarine is designed to do.

Kill a fuckload of people.

There are many millions of Americans who might read a statement like the one I have written above and remark "Well, we live in a dangerous world" or...."Fucking Liberal douchebag! Can't you understand people want to kill us?!?"

The only reason the United States of America has enemies is because....


WE MAKE THEM.

[Rex]

32. Common sense?

Why do you like to waste trillions of dollars on military shit we don't need?

[JoeyT]

5. "Jury rigged welding" is probably going to be "slugging",

or the practice of jamming metal in a bevel that's too large and welding over it. About the only thing you're actually allowed to do it on is scab plates and other stuff that isn't important and doesn't hold any weight up. Not on pipe at all, certainly not on steam pipe, and absolutely not on steam pipe that's going in a submarine.

You'd think they'd xray all the parts before they went in if they're that much of a bastard to get out.

[spooky3]

6. Just imagine what we could have done with this $ and with similar spending on weapons.

[ebayfool]

7. Unauthorized parts is another way to describe shitty, short-cut welding. It's NOT a secret ...

weld, it's a substandard weld - that someone knowingly let slip through the process. Money is a big part of how this happens, and it's so much more common than people would ever believe. From ships to pipelines under the streets.

In my youth, I was a welding inspector and this was a very common fault. It is done deliberately, either because of a lazy welder or a contractor trying to save a buck by cutting corners.

Every weld on every government contract has a set of specs that they are supposed to be welded by - in this case the quality control people (see inspectors!), the company that contracted these parts, and the military guys that oversee the contracting. Smart money doesn't play around on government contracts, it'll put them out of business if caught. But money isn't always smart. Sometimes they count on protection from the higher ups - those that would be embarrassed by the exposure.

[JoeyT]

18. Probably a combination of the two factors you list.

I'm honestly kind of shocked QC didn't catch it. They should be NDTing everything that passes through....and if it's bad enough to be visible to the naked eye, I can't imagine it not being blatantly obvious with ultrasonic or xray.

I wish they'd show us a picture of the thing so we'd know what caused it.

[ebayfool]

24. Aye, I'd love a look at that!

Last edited Mon Mar 28, 2016, 06:40 AM - Edit history (1)

QC, how do I put this ... sometimes doesn't catch what they are told not to catch. Mag particle, UT or xray will catch what they are supposed to catch. If the operator is looking for it. It's one of those 'dirty little secrets' that the industry likes to pretend never occurs.

I was pulled from more than a couple of jobs for not going along with the program. But the customer base I did have knew when I certified a weld as good, it by-gawd passed the specs!

So strange to find a DUer to talk NDT with - cool!

[JoeyT]

27. I've seen a ton of stuff that should never have gotten passed pass

so it's not much of a shock to me. Though as a welder I'm usually on the other side of it, once you learn to weld or inspect welds, you really start noticing how many bad welds are floating around, even on stuff that's way too important to be welded badly.

On the upside, there's no shortage of work for welding inspectors. Every company I know of is practically begging for them.

[ebayfool]

28. LOL! The best welder I ever knew made it a point to work in his downtime between jobs ...

with our company as a helper, just to stay busy. He saw the value in QC and said it helped him to be a better welder - and he was a helluva good guy, to boot. PDO was a top hand no matter what he did - he was devoted to producing the best quality he could possibly put out.

Speaking of welds that you'd think too important to weld badly, have you ever taken an up close look at carny-type rides? Think 'Magic Mountain' type rides. There is a reason my kids were not allowed to go on them! Though those were more from stress cracking than workmanship.

I guarantee that every time a pipeline bursts or goes up, a goodly number of the inspectors in the country are mentally reviewing (and praying in the back of their minds) 'Is it one of mine? Did I miss something?' At least, the ones that are worth a crap. I suspect the same would be true of welders.

As an old x-ray hand, I heard that line 'dollah waiting on a dime' almost as often as 'ain't no woman ever told me how to weld and nevah will'! Steady, challenging employment - but hard on the back.

I would also say the same for good welders. Good welders don't go long between jobs. And good welders don't fear inspection, it proves them good! Unfortunately, the good welders and NDT folks are pretty out numbered by the 'good enough but not really' types.

[ProfessorGAC]

29. Known Fact Here Near My House

Welders at a nuke plant during construction, made welds bad on purpose, knowing that QC would find them, require them to be redone, and they would still have continued work.

The contract, stupidly, did not have a clause that required the contractor to absorb the cost of "do-overs", so the plant construction cost went 55% over budget, almost all of it labor to correct flawed work.

I can see some errors. That can happen. But, 55% overrun?

So, i'm buying your "deliberately" comment but for a slightly different reason. Not corner cutting, but further milking of the cash cow.q

[ebayfool]

30. Oh yes, there is that!

Good addition to the dialogue. Government (sweetheart) contracts are notorious for that little exclusion. Oil companies almost always have the clause for repairs included.

[MJJP21]

10. It's not hard

It shouldn't be too difficult to figure out who is too blame. Where was it made and who had the contract? I believe every aspect of construction has a paper trail regarding who worked on what and who inspected it.

[csziggy]

14. That is covered in the article - go to the link and read the entire thing. n/t

[burrowowl]

20. And it is a US contractor

and not Chinese, DAMN!

[Initech]

21. Where I work we have a $60,000 printer that's constantly down because of shoddy parts.

This definitely does not surprise me in the least. You would think a $2.7 billion dollar submarine would have high quality components put in it, but nope!

[Orrex]

31. substandard