The "algebra-is-unnecessary"-discussion is completely missing the point.

[DetlefK]

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/who-needs-algebra-fox-news-panel-debates-whether-math-should-be-required-in-school/comments/#disqus

It's not about whether you need algebra. It absolutely a hundred-fucking-percent isn't.

Nobody needs to know literature.
Nobody needs to know how to play an instrument.
Nobody needs to know sports-games.

Why are they taught anyways?

Because they shape the character in a desireable way.

Sports is good for health, satisfies the natural desire for physical activity and teaches how to socialize.
Music teaches artistic expression.
Literature provides children with show-cases on how the world works.

And math?

Learning math modifies your brain in a way that enables it to solve complex, abstract problems.

Nobody is learning algebra because they might need it one day. People learn algebra in school to ease them from the emotional thinking of a child into the adult life-style of logical and critical thinking.





If you don't know how a child's brain works, stop making suggestions on what a child's brain needs.

[Atman]

1. Difficult to argue with that.

As an artist who has always made my living with my creative abilities, I struggled through algebra, even had to re-take it in summer school in order to graduate. "Why do I need this?!" Now, while I don't do strict algebraic equations in my day to day work, I frequently work with unknowns (dimensions, proportions, etc) and the algebra, even though I was bad at it, taught me thought processes which have helped me immensely.

Likewise, reading Beowulf has no relevance to my life, but thanks to a brilliant teacher I got all sorts of insights into language and culture. Your points are spot-on.

[Hoyt]

2. +1. Fact is, there are lots of jobs where basic algebra is useful

at times. Heck, I used it 40 years ago to complete some reports for the Federal WIC Program when I worked for state government. Everyone else stood around scratching their head trying to figure it out. Don't ues it a lot, but it comes in handy. My brother used it surveying, along with trigonometry. Nowadays, you probably punch data into a computer, but basic knowledge helps.

And as OP says, it's needed for development. Although, I'm not good evidence of that.

[lastlib]

5. If you don't understand it, it's magic. And

If you just punch numbers into a machine, WHO programs the machine?? Someone who UNDERSTANDS math!

[snort]

44. What I learned working on a survey crew:

HP makes specialized calcs for just such a purpose but you still have to know the math to use it effectively. If you don't know the math then you don't understand surveying.

[Hoyt]

45. I never thought about it, but a friend of mine works on a crew building a sky scraper.

In my stupidity, I said how can they employ a survey crew for months -- Can't you get the boundaries right in a few days? Then he took me to the site and showed how the surveyors make sure the pipes run true up the the many floors, the toilet pipes match up, walls align, the building doesn't become another Leaning Tower, etc. Had never really thought of that.

[Glassunion]

55. My GP was a surveyor. His abilities in algebra, geometry and trigonometry were astounding.

I've always sucked at algebra, but have always been fascinated by geometry and trig.

GP was old school, using pencil, paper, sextants, and his brain. Of course now you can survey much faster with the modern tools, but you still need the skills to use them.

[eppur_se_muova]

74. Students learn how to use their calculators, but can't recognize when the answer is wrong ...

it's not unusual to see exam answers that are off by huge factors, and the students will insist they should be good for *most* of the credit, like they were trivial arithmetic errors, and not indicative of a fundamental lack of understanding.

A lot of answers on first semester general chemistry exams are off by a factor of Avogadro's number -- ~ 6 x 10²³ -- but students think the numerical result "looks" reasonable because they "did everything right".

Calculate the density of a solid, given the size of a unit cell and atomic weights, for example. Answers range from a fraction of the density of intergalactic space to black hole material. And no alarms go off.

[snort]

82. I've been told math will skip a generation.

In my case, Dad had a degree in math and my son has a degree in math and teaches the stuff. I suck at it. So yeah they seem to be right.

[JoeyT]

47. Just off the top of my head, in my industry:

Plumbers, pipefitters, structural fitters, all welders, ironworkers, various concrete trades (rodbusters, finishers, etc), electricians, millwrights, boilermakers, riggers, anything to do with supervision, anything to do with surveying, and probably a whole bunch I forgot about.

Basically, if you want to work in the skilled trades, you need algebra. If you want to go to college for most things, you're going to need it too.

[Oneironaut]

62. Computer programming is basically all algebra.

The foundation of computers is algebra. It's pretty funny to hear people say, "Nobody uses Algebra!" If they said it on the Internet, they typed it on their phone or a computer.

[SusanCalvin]

73. Well, Boolean algebra (or logic - I prefer logic). nt

[daleo]

85. And SQL is essentially set theory

And then there's all that data science, predictive analytics and just plain inferential statistics, to consider.

[PersonNumber503602]

90. Not mention how many kids know for sure what they want to do in life?

Are they supposed to just tack on an extra year of schooling for anyone who wants to get into something like engineering?

[FrodosPet]

3. Kick!

I would throw in an "AMEN!", but that might end with misunderstandings and hurt feelings, so let me just say "Absolutely correct!"

[liberal N proud]

4. Build a house without Algebra

[lastlib]

7. Or a bomber for the MIC........

[FrodosPet]

75. Or a computer program to track potential disease outbreaks

Or a hospital to treat them in.

[bvf]

16. Hell, you can't even comparison shop without it!

[CrispyQ]

36. +1

Algebra for Consumers

[GummyBearz]

81. Its been done before...

[TeddyR]

101. That is awesome

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

6. Or tile a floor....

or check circuits, or measure for a concrete pour, or water flow rate, or do inventory....

Whomever is suggesting do away with algebra must really be living in a bubble...

Of pure bullshit.

Edit: my 3 children all struggled somewhat in math, mostly due to lousy teachers. Eventually, they all did well.

EACH OF THEM IS DOING VERY WELL IN THE EARLY YEARS OF THEIR CAREERS DUE TO MATH.

Where can I go to shout that from the rooftops?

[Mustellus]

9. "A bubble... of pure bullshit"......

Fox news?

[malaise]

13. You win the thread

Triple Duh!!!

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

30. Fox News, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh

et al.

How many assholes does one monster need?

(And I'm generally a conservative type)

[malaise]

32. What does 'conservative type' mean?

I conserve but I am not a conservative.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

40. I'm not sure anymore, perhaps...

it's a reaction to being labeled as a right wing militia nut-job by the local newspaper (and by bloggers all over the 'net) when CCW holders were volunteering at recruiting stations so 18 year old high school kids interested in the military could come and go as they please while exploring a military career (after the recruiter/naval base shooting).

Perhaps it's horror at the federal deficit, which is a problem no one seems to be doing anything about.

Perhaps it's the feeling I have for HRC which can only be described as similar to a stomach virus.

Politically, I have become completely detached from Republicans, their party, their candidates, and pretty much everything they stand for.

As I have said in other posts, leave 2nd Amendment issues off the table and don't raise my taxes, and I'm done with them.

[apnu]

8. Algebra is taught because it teaches core problem solving skills.

It is of great importance to for and independent person to know how to solve problems when they do not have all the information. That is the mainreason algebra is taught. It also lays the groundwork for people going int careers that involve math... Science careers, computer careers, engineering careers, and on and on and on.

[stopbush]

52. So the question would be whether algebra is the only method

available to teach said skills, or if it is the best method available.

Some people have a knack for algebra. Others don't. It seems to be those who have the knack who are its biggest advocates.

The truth is that one can learn the same concepts taught in math by studying music, which is in many ways a math-based system that is built on proportions. In my case, I was failing at getting algebra back in HS until my music teacher took me aside and explained the similarities between the two disciplines. That helped immensely. In retrospect, I think a better teacher in algebra might have helped. There came a point in her class where those of us who were struggling were just sort of left behind. She had to get from A to H by a certain date, and those of us stuck at Point F were shit out of luck.

I was no math whiz, but I did get thru algebra though not trig (dropped out after about 6 weeks - I was totally lost). I consider myself to be a logical, evidence- based person. I see no way that I can credit my brief encounter with HS algebra as having much of anything to do with that.

[apnu]

56. Ok that's your story, but not what I'm talking about.

What I'm trying to say is why algebra exists in the curriculum. And why its been there in the curriculum for generations.

Your personal story and self-confidence don't enter into it. You had some bad teachers, I'm sorry for that. I had some bad teachers too. My experience doesn't enter into it.

Education in America isn't uniform. It's quality varies from classroom to classroom, school to school, state to state. Its a mess and we're no closer to cleaning it up today than we were 20 years ago.

Music, and the arts in general, are important subjects to teach. We are highly creative and intelligent animals, the arts teach us to use our intelligence and creativity together. Sadly that falls to the wayside when budgets tighten up in school systems.

[sweetapogee]

58. you can be

a math major without having a science background but you cannot be a science (or engineering) major without a math background.

Or

A scientist must know math but a mathematician doesn't need to know science.

I take classes at my local community college for personal enrichment. I started off taking algebra just because I was never very good at it. Worked my way up to and through calculus, a goal that seemed unimaginable to me most of my life.

A Biology major even at the community college level needs to take two semesters of general chemistry and two semesters of organic chemistry. The pre-req for the first semester of general chemistry is college algebra (which is basically pre-calc without any trig). The graduation requirement for biology majors in addition to the 4 semesters of chemistry is one semester of college level statistics and one semester of college level trig. All this for an associates degree in biology.

So if you want to get a biology degree these days you must do what it takes to get a handle on basic algebra. In my opinion, you will not make it through the first semester of general chemistry if you don't have an elementary grasp of algebra. Students in intermediate algebra through calculus are required to use a graphing calculator, for example the TI-84 is the one I use (and literally millions of college and high school math/science students) but the calculator is useless if you don't understand the formulas or the theory needed. Lots of students fail these classes even with calculator in hand. My many years of music lessons did not help me one bit getting through any of the math I've completed and none of the biology and chemistry that I've taken.

[stopbush]

65. So what is the solution for students who have no aptitude for algebra, and who aren't going to be

scientists or engineers but would benefit from encountering logical thinking? Let them continue to pull Cs and Ds in algebra and pat ourselves on the back because we held our education system to a "high level" by demanding everyone take algebra, even if that means many fail to grasp the subject?

Sounds like a "too bad for you" kind of approach to me.

You know, we accept that most students have little real aptitude for music or acting or painting or sports. Why is it so hard to accept that many students have little aptitude for math? It's just another subject at school, is it not?

Maybe the way they're teaching basic math these days will help students once they get into the more-complex forms of math.

"Only 26 percent of students (high school seniors) assessed in math scored at or above proficient in 2013, the same percentage as those tested in 2009, the results show. In 2009, achievement in math did improve slightly from 2005.

"Overall, high school seniors​ continued to do better in reading than math. Thirty-eight percent of students tested performed at or above proficient in 2013. However, scores have remained virtually the same since 1994 and are slightly lower than scores from 1992. When the reading assessment was first administered in 1992, only about 10,000 students participated. More than 47,000 students participated in the 2013 assessment.

"By including more students, we could be testing more lower-performing students," John Easton,​ director of the Institute of Education Sciences and acting commissioner of the federal National Center for Education Statistics, said on a call with reporters Tuesday." -
http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/high-school-notes/2014/05/07/high-school-seniors-math-reading-scores-flat-on-national-exam

[On the Road]

78. Algebra Teaches How to Organize a Complex Situation

and identify the unknown elements to be quantified. For real-world purposes, the equations are secondary.

If you work with people who have college degrees vs. those who have only high school, the difference is evident. Likewise for people with a decent math education vs those don't have one, even if the specific math test have little to do with the specifics of the job.

[stopbush]

79. Doesn't answer my question.

[On the Road]

86. You're Right -- That Was Supposed to be a Reply to the Original Post

.

[sweetapogee]

97. "Sounds like a "too bad for you" kind of approach to me."

stopbush

When I received my B.S. degree in the early 80s things were different than they are now. When I entered high school in the early 70s it was considered a requirement for college prep students to have at least 2 years of a language, when I left HS this requirement was slowly becoming obsolete.

Things have changed though and now some colleges are requiring mastery basic of high school academics for even associate degree programs. I did a study of the numbers of students at my community college who in the first year enrolled into elementary and/or intermediate algebra and it turns out that about 30% enroll. Out of that 30% about 70% drop out of elementary and 60% drop out of intermediate algebra. To give you a comparison, elementary algebra is the first year of high school algebra and intermediate is the second year of algebra. These classes do not transfer to a four year college as a math credit, only as an elective, they do not satisfy a math requirement. An argument could be made that around 30% of students in community college do not have the math skills required of high school students. I actually believe that the percentage is higher than 30% but for now 30%.

To me it comes down to this, if a college student who is weak in algebra doesn't have the ability to pass intermediate algebra then they don't belong in college. Harsh I know but if the student is weak in math and doesn't have the ambition to do what ever it takes to accomplish this goal then there are other problems besides a weak math background. Sorry if that offends but that is the way I see it. You put in as much time and effort necessary to pass the class or take a different approach to education. If a marketable skill is the goal of an education then the student should be willing to put in the required amount of academic hustle.

To repeat myself, it might not seem necessary for a biology major to pass four semesters of college level chemistry and two semesters of college level math but that is what is needed for an associates degree. If you want the degree then you take the class as many times as it takes to move ahead. A student who does not have a solid high school understanding of algebra will not get past the first semester of college level chemistry, never mind the three semesters that follow. That is a simple fact. So yes it is the "too bad for you approach". Yes that is it exactly and it should be that way. A college degree doesn't come was a guarantee of a job so choose your major wisely and prepare to put forth maximum effort.

[Blanks]

104. Students with no aptitude for algebra...

Should be encouraged to approach it in a different manner.

I always tell the young people that I encounter: of course they won't use algebra after they're out of school if they don't know how to use it. As an engineer I use it all the time, but the subject that I think they should put more focus on (in order to make more people understand algebra) is physics. Physics is algebra with units. If more emphasis were put on physics in high school, young people would be better at solving story problems.

I think high school teachers get too wrapped around the axle solving for X, and too little time trying to figure out real world problems involving the relationships between area, volume, capacity, density, velocity etc.

Just as an example. There's a simple formula in hydraulic engineering Q=VA where Q is in cfs and V is velocity ft/s and A is area in sf. It's basically the formula used to determine how much faster the water sprays out of a garden hose if you put your finger over the end. The world is filled with little formulas like this but if you're just solving for X and Y in problems of increasing difficulty, it's easy to come to the conclusion that there's no real world use for algebra.

[Mustellus]

10. As we say in the Engineering Teaching Racket....

Ever fly in an airplane designed by a jock?


We all have contributions to make...

[TreasonousBastard]

11. Not only that, but if you're not exposed to it, how would you know...

if you have a talent for it? Or like it?

And, ummm... in that video the incredibly hot blonde who was an athlete and taught calculus to her team?

I'm about to pass out with desire.

[Lucky Luciano]

12. Just how do people expect to do high frequency trading without algebra?!

[greenman3610]

14. I used to ask my math teacher "why do I need this?"

anyone that's still asking that later in adulthood has not really grown up.
Since Plato and before wise men have recommended math as a tool to train
reason and critical thought.
If I could go back I'd spend a lot more time on it - because it brings
knowledge and skills that are empowering.

[Ilsa]

15. Learning trains the brain for other

tasks than the specifics learned in class. It teaches us to look at problems with flexibility. I think being able to do that also helps some of us learn to see things from others' points of view.

[HereSince1628]

17. I don't expect to change any opinions but here's my thought on the utility argument for those things

Last edited Fri Apr 1, 2016, 07:24 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm not saying the utilitarian view is the only view or is most important, only that all those things have utility in addition to cognitive development and enrichment of life. All these things help us learn to be functional humans.

Why engage literature?

Literature engages a virtual reality the stories encountered give access to a vicarious experience where we get to see human behavior and it's outcomes within the context of a social structure. Consequently, literature is an introduction to human interactions and many of the so-called soft skills needed for the lives of even human worker bees are encountered there. Even people in high performing careers need understanding of soft-skills, currently there is a push for including "medical humanities" in the instruction of medical providers so that they better understand interpersonal ethical interactions with their clients and their clients families. No doubt even hucksters selling gold in anticipation of apocalypse benefit by understanding human nature in the context of culture.

Why learn to play an instrument.
Sound made on an instrument is an consequence of action, learning an instrument gives an immediate sense of actualization. It happens because a musician makes it happen, regardless of the type of music involved. Making the instrument sound as desired takes discipline to actualize mastery of coordination of hands, understanding the details of time develops an appreciation for discipline given by rules developed by practice. Conforming to rules and noting the beneficial effects is a lesson most workers need. Additionally most people learning musical instruments in school are not taught to be soloist but members of a performing organization be it band or orchestra. Music in this sense teaches the benefit of teamwork and compliance with authority and rules in the production of something much bigger than individual effort

Why teach sports?
Sports obviously develop physical attributes of strength, hand-eye coordination. They also teach compliance to rules often including rules about ethical behavior. Sports introduces the value of competition and the notion that good outcomes can be achieved by discipline and the mastery it brings. Sports teaches the value of solving immediate problems (tactics) to reach larger goals. Subsuming one's desires to the good of the team and the value of coordination under the control of coaches have clear value to future employees. Sports also introduces concept and value of loyalty and emotional/moral support in the face of demoralizing events and injury/suffering.

Why teach algebra?
Algebra is about rules and logic, and their coordinated use to systematically manipulate equations to reveal relationships also known as "analytical insight". School math often seems to be about the value of a right answer (and the crushing defeat of a teacher's marking an answer wrong). Right answers are fine, but math also introduces thinking skills and mental orientation needed to have theoretical and thereby strategic understanding, whose symbolic insight yields what Darwin called a 6th sense that sees and anticipates what isn't superficially apparent. Clearly corporate management needs such capacity to see opportunity and take advantage of it when competitors can't and don't.

[Scuba]

24. Excellent, thanks!

[michealgordons]

31. ok

ok

[bvf]

18. Mathematics is pure beauty. n/t

[Liz_Estrada]

25. Thank you!

That's what this thread has been missing! I was going to say it if you hadn't.

[central scrutinizer]

46. A beautiful creation of the human mind

With fantastic objects and ideas that require you to use your imagination to its fullest.

[neeksgeek]

19. From the Fox "News"/Right-Wing POV, EDUCATION is unnecessary, nevermind algebra! n/t

[jg10003]

20. My 91 year old father does algebra to keep his mind sharp

The brain needs exercise just like the heart and lungs.

[CrispyQ]

23. That reminds me of an old Far Side cartoon.

A man is sitting in his easy chair in his living room & his head is on the floor. The text reads, "Simon found out that the old adage 'use it or lose it' still applies."

[retrowire]

21. ahem...

MATH IS HARD!

'cries*

[jg10003]

26. No pain no gain

[CrispyQ]

22. Excellent!

I have friends, smart friends (!), who think we shouldn't teach algebra. The same friends who had to take algebra in HS & many of whom are now software engineers. WTF???

Thanks for posting!

[onyourleft]

27. Thank you.

Very well said as are many of the replies in this thread.

[michealgordons]

28. I am there

I am there

[Boldine]

29. I always pointed out how algebra is used everyday

when my kids would say what's the point.

And I think that is part of the problem schools are teaching it without explaining why we used algebra. It wouldn't take long, but it would go a long way to help children understand why it is needed.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

35. I'd say the same should go for a lot of areas of study.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

33. I get the value of it in K-12 but never understood why I had to do it all over again in college.

[malthaussen]

34. Bah, we don't need no stinkin' Arab inventions.

What I find kind of sad is that some nitwits on Fox decide to float another idiot idea, and people actually feel the need to refute them, in a venue where Fox has no credibility to begin with. It's a phenomenon that always fascinates me: people dignify stupidity with a response.

Of course, the flip side of that is that stupidity should be cut off before it gets legs. But if that were the rationale, then why preach to the choir?

-- Mal

[Bernardo de La Paz]

37. Fox, Koch and RNC want to reduce critical thinking for power political gain. . nt

[lagomorph777]

38. I disagree. Yes, algebra improves thinnking, but it's a basic life skill in our society.

If you can't do math, you can't manage money, do a simple home improvement project, or make your own judgment on the validity of an election result.

Calculus, OK, only some of us actually need it (I do in my job and my hobby).

[Maedhros]

59. Calculus teaches the important fundamental concept of rate of change.[n/t]

[U4ikLefty]

88. I remember first learning about taking the derivative.

I was like "hell yeah!!!"

It was like a payoff for all the high school math. Calculus is where the shit gets REAL interesting. It's pretty awesome the way math relates/describes the world around us.

[reflection]

102. Totally agree.

When I hit calc 3 I had an epiphany. I started observing systems just in natural life that I never really thought about before, and it really fed me the concept about how everything is cyclical and interrelated. Your mileage may vary, but I remember a profound and obvious "click" in my understanding of many things when taking Calc 3.

[Trajan]

39. My 37 year career in aerospace electronics

I used Algebra throughout ...

It is indispensable in technical work ...

It is expansive for the human mind ...

It should be offered as mandatory the first year, and elective for intermediate and advanced students who choose to pursue it ...

[drm604]

41. It's not true that "nobody is learning algebra because they might need it one day".

Many people will need it for their work and, of those who don't, most will find it useful for things like household budgeting or determining which quantity of something is the best deal when shopping. I find it to be a basic life skill that I use without even thinking about it being algebra.

[freebrew]

42. I use algebra daily...

it's good for the soul...
it also helps with my rotten guitar playing.

Ms. freebrew works at the local school district. The stories are frightening.
We are raising a generation that will be less intelligent than their priors.
Administrations are experimenting with real lives and they don't seem concerned.
$$$ is driving all decisions due to so many budget cuts from the state.


Good OP.

[davidthegnome]

43. My own efforts to learn it were in vain.

I tried - I tried really hard, to learn the basics of algebra in college. My... life experience left me without any real previous education in algebra (I dropped out of high school at thirteen or fourteen - as a freshman - due to problems with bullying and my own health) so, during my year of college, I had to take a course I think they called math 18. I didn't get it, not at all. I took advantage of the tutoring my professor offered, I spent hours studying the book and trying to work through and figure out the problems, but I couldn't do it. The harder I tried, the more it seemed to me like code written in another language.

Maybe if there had been a different method used to teach me, maybe if I had been exposed to algebra at a younger age... I don't know. I can do simple math and calculations (adding, subtracting, multiplication, etc.) but fractions and equations and such things are well beyond me. I'm not a stupid person, but algebra made me feel like I was.

I underestimate it's value, as I have known and worked for carpenters and others who used it regularly as part of their work, but in the event that I ever manage to get my student loans out of default and miraculously find a way back into college... it will be my main obstacle - and may prevent me from graduating. It's frustrating for me, because I have overcome many intellectual challenges in my life and I have a reasonably high IQ, but I can't do algebra.

I remember with painful clarity, staring at my book for hours like a zombie - having to shake myself awake over and over again to refocus on problems... reading instructions that should have made sense to me, but didn't. I have an uncle with a PHD in logic - and one of my best friends (and future brother in law) is mathematically brilliant, but to me, it seems hopeless.

[LibDemAlways]

103. You are not alone. My dad had a Master's degree

in math, and I barely squeaked by with low C's in algebra. Just couldn't do it. I always found that math books were useless. The author would introduce a concept with an example that was fairly straightforward, but then the problems that followed depended on knowledge of concepts not yet introduced. I was simply lost and frustrated. Never had decent teachers either, although I don't think that made much difference.

Fortunately, when I arrived at college as an English major back in 1970, I was required to take a year of math or a year of philosophy. Needless to say, I took philosophy.

I can do all the math I need to do in my daily life, but as for algebra, geometry, and any other higher math, I very simply don't have an aptitude for it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

48. Only people who have never built anything think that algebra/geometry/trig is irrelevant.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/heres-how-little-math-americans-actually-use-at-work/275260/

[philly_bob]

49. What is 11 1/2 inches minus 2 3/16 inches?

I trained a young woman who was later fired (by the big boss) because she couldn't do that calculation, The business was running a bindery department in the printing business.

If you know algebra, you know 11 1/2 = 11 8/16, and the calculation is much easier to do in your head.

[Adrahil]

80. Not to bust your chops, but that is not algebra

That's just fraction arithmetic. 4th-5th grade math stuff.

[Taitertots]

50. Algebra is the "see spot run" of mathematics

Heat
Light
Sound
Motion
Finance
Biology
Ecology
Without post algebra math, you can't have anything but a child like understanding of these concepts.

The people who want the get rid of algebra want you to be unable to understand how the world works. So you are dependent on them to interprete the world for you. An example is climate change denial.

[phantom power]

51. And by the way, I use math all the time.

Linear algebra, calculus, lately category theory as applied to SW designs.

In some professions, this shit matters. And even when it's not mission-critical, if you're the person who can (literally) do the math, you have the advantage. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

[ileus]

53. God it must be nice majoring in something that didn't require 40 classes of higher math.

[reflection]

54. Professional engineer here,

I took so much math in college I wanted to vomit. Calc I,I,III, Diff EQ, linear algebra, sadistics

To me, basic algebra is probably the most useful math taught at any level. People who have learned it probably use some form of it every day without even overtly thinking about it.

[U4ikLefty]

89. You've got your PE? nt

[reflection]

94. Next year will be 20 years. N/t

[U4ikLefty]

98. Nice, I got my California PE about 7 years ago.

Fun test, eh?

[reflection]

100. When I was done with that test

I was more tired than I ever was in my life, even when I landscaped for a living briefly. The mental crush of that test was so bad. I got very drunk that night, and I don't generally care for drinking. Mine was half "show your work" and half multiple choice. Was yours that way or all multiple choice? Congrats, by the way.

[Glassunion]

57. Yeah! and F**k the metric system too!

'Merica!

[Oneironaut]

63. I hate the U.S. system of measurement. It makes no sense.

Life would be so much easier if we used the metric system.

[Glassunion]

68. There are two types of country in this world. Those who use the metric system and those

who've sent people to the moon. 'Merica!

[Dr. Strange]

70. The metric system is a tool of the devil!

My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it!

[TexasBushwhacker]

60. As a former teacher, I will say this

They usually start teaching basic (pre) algebra in 8th grade and then algebra in 9th grade (at least here in Texas). They teach geometry in 10th grade and many seem to hit a brick wall. We had 30 to 40% of kids failing geometry the first go round, but then they sailed through the second time. While some of that can be attributed to repeating, I think it's also a matter of brain development. Just like some kids can start learning to read when they are 3, for many kids letters just look like doodles on a page until they are 4 or 5.

Teaching a subject before a child's brain is ready for it just makes the kid feel like a failure. Being able to make the jump from concrete to abstract reasoning is something that some young brains can't do until late high school or even college. I had a friend who had to take (freshman) College Algebra 3 times. She wasn't stupid. Her brain just didn't work that way.

[d_legendary1]

61. Finally! We can put this bad meme to rest

Its like that stupid ass Ronald Raygun expression that says, "Those that do do and those that don't teach". Math is hard and so is life. If ya can't do one then you're gonna suck at the other.

[Marr]

64. The people who run Fox News would be perfectly happy if public schools didn't exist at all...

...and there was zero education of any sort provided to most children.

[Rex]

66. I disagree somewhat, everyone needs to know some literature and basic history.

Otherwise you end up drooling on your couch, marathon watching Foxnews.

I think the brain hungers for knowledge. Without algebra we wouldn't know a thing about our universe, we would all still be living in the dark ages...well what would be left. Deceases would have killed a huge portion of us off by now. Life expectancy would be in the 20 - 30s.

[yellowcanine]

67. Algebra is simply an organized way of solving mathematical problems.

If people do not use it they are unable to easily solve basic math problems they run into every day. Even people who say they don't use algebra probably do.

Things like - to solve an equation, do the same thing to both sides of the equation.
Commutative law for multiplication and addition..... a+b = b+a and a x b = b x a etc.
Assigning an unknown to solve problems.

People with a natural mathematical ability or experience will do a lot of this in their head, but they are still using algebra.

[Paladin]

69. I endured algebra in high school. I hated every moment of it.

I have no revisionist "Algebra made me the man I am today" feelings, fifty years later. In choosing a major in college, I made sure that the degree plan contained no mathematics requirement. We all have our own strengths and weaknesses---I knew mathematical geniuses who had panic attacks over producing one-page writing assignments.

[HuckleB]

71. Recommended.

[Ratty]

72. I'm surprised every time when I have to use algebra in my non-science job

I'm like, "Gee, I'm using algebra!" Doesn't happen often, maybe once every month, maybe more depending on what I'm working on maybe. But I'm not sure what I would have done without algebra. Things like figuring more complex percentages of things when asked for statistics. Solving certain word-problem type things: I remember you need the same number of equations as you have unknowns and it's actually pretty easy after that.

I suppose learning math as a kid is good for the mind and all that, but I don't think anyone actually NEEDS to use calculus or trigonometry in their real adult lives. But gee, what do people do without some basic algebra?

[valerief]

76. Algebra interferes with the dumbing down of America, the strategy to keep the masses under control.

[lostnfound]

77. Actually truth be told I need algebra almost every workday

First as an engineer and later as an analytical business person. Spreadsheets and analysis are often just a whole lot of algebraic formulas.

[struggle4progress]

83. And don't even get me started on indoor plumbing!

It's a total scam! The only thing it accomplishes is it keeps plumbers employed! Plus you government gets to send you a water bill every month -- and for what? Just so my cat can flush the toilet hundreds of times a day while I'm at work: what a rip-off!

Face it, folks: people got by for thousands and thousands of years without it. We built Stonehenge without indoor plumbing. When the ancient Egyptians built the Pyramids, nobody wasted time installing sinks or bathtubs

We even got to the moon without it. Look at the lunar lander. Do you see a flush toilet? No, you do not! If we can fet to the fuggin moon without a flush toilet, we can do anything without a flush toilet

[immoderate]

84. I taught lots of algebra. And my students would inquire about the "need to know."

And I had two responses. First, it's because of those unknown problems we encounter in life. You can't predict what you will need to know.

And then I tell them that of the hundreds of students I've taught algebra, never once has one returned to confront me with, "I know all this math -- and I wish I could forget it."

--imm

[La Lioness Priyanka]

87. there are people who claim you don't need to know algebra?

[alp227]

91. wait - that raw story article is about a FOX NEWS segment?

Who knew that Fox News and NPR would promote the same anti-intellectual stupidity? NPR recently granted Andrew Hacker a platform to promote his anti-math book.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

92. Latin is good for you too.

Shall we fight about it? It is the basis for all Romance (from the Romans) languages. It is the source of the phrase Latin America. Because they speak Spanish and Portuguese there. Latin and Old French are used in law. Medicine is mostly Greek with some Latin. English is about 60 percent Latin, but English grammar is not logical compared to Romance languages. Teaching high school Latin is a fad that swings back and forth every few years. When I took Lat in iN high school i saw how horrible English grammar is aND how important word order is in English and. Why you need pronouns. .

[Deadshot]

93. There is nothing wrong with gaining knowledge in general.

I hate the current anti-math crusade. I'm terrible at math but I understand its value.

[Locrian]

95. the financial industry has a term for those that don't "do" math: "suckers" (nt)

[dembotoz]

96. i kinda got a feeling that the nations that compete with us still teach it

maybe we will like being their servants

[treestar]

99. +1

The subjects taught in school are chosen because they help you learn how to learn. That's what you do in life in an advanced society. It's not about pure, sheer job training. And having a literate society of educated people. If it were job training only, some people wouldn't need to go to school at all. Just straight to the job training. Societies far less advanced did that, but this is the 21st century.