Whose idea was it to have military training for Fort Hood

[malaise]

in the middle of unbelievable rain and flooding.
If they were training them for rescue missions, the question is are you freaking serious?
Texas has had serious flooding problems for well over a year.

Deepest sympathy to all

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/03/us/texas-floods/

[NaturalHigh]

1. I just read about this. Tragic.

[TipTok]

2. Investigating that one is gonna suck...

Guys always bitch and moan about the paperwork and risk assessments but this is when it comes into play.

A grand mess overall..

[JayhawkSD]

3. What? You want an army that can only fight in good weather?

I can see it now, gearing up for a major battle against the Russian army. The fate of the world is in the balance. But the commander says, "No, we have to call it off. It's raining."

[snappyturtle]

5. Did you forget the sarcasm thingie?

[Blue_Tires]

9. +1

And FWIW, fatal accidents during exercises or training happen on warm, bright and clear days, too...

[TipTok]

21. I.E. Most airborne operations...

Not usually fatal but almost always an injury...

[braddy]

27. Doing jumps during rain storms, and at night during snow fall, and breaking through an iced over

river, and landing on the roof of barns in the dark as your parachute collapses but drags you off the two story roof.

[malaise]

25. Aren't we talking 500 year floods in Texas

or was that last year?

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. Last year, last week, yesterday... probably tomorrow too.

It's our thing now.

[malaise]

32. Clearly you've had enough

I could not bare all that water and before you're dry you're wet again.
We've been having some serious rain in two parishes - mudslides and all

[kentauros]

34. I'm not sure I could deal with mudslides!

Flash-floods are known to me and the rest who live here. Mudslides aren't, and are a whole other kind of 'animal'...

I hope y'all are staying safe with all of that.

[ScreamingMeemie]

36. Right? I'm trying to figure the best route from here to NRG for BabyG's graduation

tomorrow. (last little one moves on to the future)

[kentauros]

39. I hope you can find a good route that's safe and dry

Google Maps and the phone app Waze can help you in seeing where the bad spots are. Also, the USGS has a good hydrology site that's even better than what the NWS supplies.

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. How awful!

Please stay safe.

[hobbit709]

43. Nope.

It's just that more people are in flood country with no idea of what happens. It's like all those people that move to the coast and have no clue as to what a hurricane does.

Old timers in TX will tell you that before you build near the river go down to the water and look up. See where the debris line in the trees is. Don't build below that level.

[kentauros]

51. I only know the responses from newcomers living on the coast.

I'd like to see the faces of newcomers when you tell them "See where the debris line in the trees is"

Might also show them video of the aftermath of the Blanco River flood where you can see the debris line as well as the debris still hanging onto the bridges with the water back to almost normal levels. That is, if the bridges are still there...

[scscholar]

33. Heard a football coach many years ago say the same thing...

then his best wide receiver tore his ACL on the muddy practice field. They stopped practicing in the rain.

[DVRacer]

4. We train in every condition imaginable

I personally was aboard the Roosevelt when we took it into a Cat 3 hurricane. First off it was safer for the ship than at dock second we trained how to secure aircraft. It was an experience I will never forget. Injuries were minor but present the goal was train in case we had to ride thru a storm to get in position to launch air strikes in a hurry. The military is not always what you see on tv. National security is at times higher then our personal security and training is how we gain and keep that edge.

[Ex Lurker]

15. My uncle rode out Halsey's typhoons aboard USS Essex

He went through a lot of combat, including kamikaze attacks, but he said the typhoons were the most scared he's ever been.

[TeddyR]

29. The deep ocean freaks me out

No idea how the navy folks do it but hats off to them

[Mendocino]

40. My Father served in the Pacific Theater,

officer on a LST, 7th Fleet. His opinion of Halsey was low, he considered Halsey reckless and a glory seeker. Dad endured the 2nd typhoon (Connie), LSTs were sluggish even in normal seas. They took on a tremendous amount of water, only by manipulating the ballast and non stop pumping were they able to survive.

[malaise]

26. Thanks for your input

Hope they find the missing soldiers

[1939]

6. When I was at Ft Hood 1963-1964

all of the stream crossings were marked with blue, yellow, and red posts on the sides of the concrete crossing site. If you could see the blue, it was safe for cars and jeeps. If you could see the yellow, it was safe for trucks. If you could see the red, it was safe for tanks and other tracked vehicles. If you could see any of the markers, STAY OUT!

[malaise]

8. Thanks

very important

[1939]

11. Because the streams were dry most of the time

they didn't have bridges. There was just a concrete roadway through the dry wash with the marker posts on each side. If we had a gully washer (rare) the creeks would flood and if deep enough be impassible. It sounds like some young soldiers had an error in judgement and tried to cross anyway (we got 4-wheel drive, no problem).

[kentauros]

14. That's a common scene all across the Hill Country.

And I would assume residents of Arizona are familiar with crossings that look just like that. Dry and safe most of the year, except when the rains come. Then just be alert and aware of what can happen, some times in less than a minute.

[jmowreader]

7. Never been in the Army, I see

Old Army expression: if it ain't raining we ain't training. The Army likes training in the worst conditions because you might have to fight in them.

[1939]

17. What do you do when it rains?

You get wet.

[jmowreader]

18. Pull out the rain gear and continue the mission

The Army issues nice rain gear...Gore-Tex, and very attractive.

[1939]

19. Used to make do with ponchos NT

[TipTok]

22. Which led to the greatest piece of equipment in the inventory...

The Holy woobie... A. K. A. Poncho liner

[1939]

23. Poncho liners didn't come along till Vietnam.

Prior to that, all you got was the poncho (and the godawful taupe raincoat).

[braddy]

28. We also made do with the cruel shelter half, which in Washington state I just gave up using.

[Aristus]

24. I sort of had it easy as a tanker.

If we were in the field, we just cranked the hatches closed until the rain let up.

But the rain almost always started when we were gearing the unit out of garrison. Every tank needed a ground-guide. Someone to walk in front of the tank until we were out of the cantonment area; the ground guide would mount up once we were on open hardball.

So the ground guide would get soaked. When I was doing the foot-slogging, I used to hunch over against the rain as if that would help keep me dry. Pretty soon, it would get to the point where I was so wet, I didn't give a fuck anymore. Then I would straighten up and pretty much dance the rest of the way.

Once I mounted the tank, the heater would dry me out pretty quick.

[1939]

46. At Fort Hood

That crazy mud would bond to the tank like cement. The there was all the fun of getting it clean at the wash rack (in January).

[Aristus]

47. Sounds like Fort Knox, where mud wasn't the problem.

It was clay. Thick, glutinous, sticky red clay that took forever to clean off at the wash rack.

[1939]

55. Fort Hood

was a white caliche soil that turned to cement when it dried. I remember needing a knife to get it off my boots so I could polish them.

[tabasco]

42. "Ranger sunshine." n/t

[former9thward]

10. War does not take a time out for the weather.

Adverse conditions is exactly the time to train.

[kentauros]

12. As others have pointed out, the rain itself isn't much of an issue.

What they failed to teach, however, is what happens to all of that rain in that kind of terrain. You simply do not mess with flash-flood crossings.

Water is more powerful than most people can imagine, until they experience it firsthand.

[sendero]

13. Exactly..

... and most people have ZERO experience with these situations and are totally unaware of how quickly something can go from "looks a bit dangerous" to "almost guaranteed lethal".

I feel sympathy for all involved, someone was on a training mission and they did not want to have to explain that they encountered "high water" so they went for it.

With tragic results.

[catrose]

31. And the rains have been so furious

that a safe place to cross an hour ago might be lethal now. I can't remember when I last saw this level of storms in Central Texas. Sympathies to all.

[Rex]

16. We train to be ready for the most adverse environmental conditions known to mankind.

I remember stepping onto a bus in Watertown, the temp was a dry and cool -23 degrees...we boarded a plane for Panama and when we arrived it was 105 degrees with 100 humidity.

If you get stuck in light infantry, every day becomes an endurance test.

[tabasco]

41. True, but if nine soldiers get killed in training,

more than one officer will lose his career.

Safety in training is still paramount.

[Rex]

45. Oh yeah that is true, someone will lose their command over this.

That's a lot of soldiers.

[1939]

48. It looks like

this was a driver training scenario rather than a field exercise. The vehicle was a MTV (modern equivalent of the deuce and a half). Driver and the instructor (E5 or E6) in the cab and the other students drivers in the back. They were out on the range roads to avoid accidents on the more crowded cantonment area roads. Not sure that any officer was directly involved except to the extent of telling the motor pool to qualify more drivers on that type of vehicle (of course, if the press mob called for heads, the Army may well take down an unfortunate captain).

[tabasco]

49. Doesn't matter if the officer was present or not.

A captain and a light colonel, at a minimum, will get letters of reprimand, possibly relieved.

The "press mob" has nothing to do with it.

[1939]

50. If the captain had led a convoy through crossing, he should go down the tubes

In this case, the fault lies with the driver training instructor. What if a PFC is out driving a truck alone and does something stupid and is killed? Should the battalion commander be crucified?

[tabasco]

54. I'm just telling you how it is.

A captain, a LTC, a bird Colonel, maybe even a star officer will be in hot water for not canceling all training. You just don't lose a whole squad in training in the Army without some heat coming down. Yes, an NCO might lose a stripe, as well.

Officers are always on the blame line.

[Duval]

20. K&R.

Such a tragedy is hard to watch more than once.

[Ilsa]

37. My understanding from watching the news was

That there was a very rapid rising of a nearby creek, and a vehicle overturned. No telling what the whole story is.

[tabasco]

38. Heads are gonna roll

and they will be officer heads.

[leeroysphitz]

44. One training death is one too many at any military facility. n/t

[braddy]

53. We used to average about 2200 peace time military deaths per year.

[malaise]

56. Your point? n/t

[braddy]

57. I don't understand, what is your point?

[JonathanRackham]

52. I've sailed thru 3 hurricanes back in the 80s.

We often questioned the decision makers.