Penn Jillette: Time for atheists to stand up and be counted

[Cooley Hurd]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/02/opinions/atheists-reason-rally-jillette/index.html

(CNN)This weekend on the Mall in Washington, a bunch of atheists — tens of thousands, including me -- will get together just to be counted as not having a personal god.

Why? Whether the pollsters bemoan it or celebrate it, the percentage of Americans who are losing their religion is rising. And in a presidential election year, candidates need to take note.

Two of those remaining, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, still give lip service to being religious -- even if many on either side of religion don't believe them or want to claim them. (Why would this be the only thing either one of them would tell the truth about?)

</snip>

Snipped at this point because I do not believe Gary Johnson is the panacea...

[Egnever]

1. Be counted for what?

I don't get it. You don't believe in something so you deserve special compensation?

I detest this I am special nonsense.

[Warren DeMontague]

3. Right, we should just stay in the closet.

I know how much the emperor's fans hate it when anyone openly suggests he might be nude.

[Egnever]

5. You aren't a group

You don't believe in a god.

I dont believe in religion but that doesn't mean anyone owes me any recognition.

[Warren DeMontague]

15. I got my ass kicked by older kids at age 7 at the school bus stop because i answered

"Are you jewish or christian" with "neither, Im an Atheist"

After explaining to Moe and Bosco what that word meant, i was informed via fists that I wasn't "allowed" to doubt the existence of magical sky wizards.

Well, Im not seven anymore, and if anyone wants to physically try and shut me up about it now, I'm perfectly capable of performing some freelance dental work on them in self-defense.

So its not happening, sorry. I am what I say i am, I belong to any fucking group i declare myself a member of, and i am never going to shut up about my belief that "God" is an absurd fairy tale.

And millions of atheists being open about our non-belief MAY mean some other 7 year old wont have to catch shit for it.

[Egnever]

18. So you have turned into the same people you met when you were 7

Congrats!

[Warren DeMontague]

25. How the everloving fuck do you get that?

Ive never assaulted anyone, not for what they believe or any other reason, thanks.

But it seems clear you find Atheists saying "i dont believe in god" a form of assault, so I probably cant help you.

[Egnever]

31. Cause now you are ready to assault people that don't believe in atheism

same as the dumbfuck kids you were dealing with as a child. Yay for progress!

My take, believe whatever the fuck you want to believe I could care less. I am no fan of organized religion nor am I a fan of what increasingly seems to be some attempt at organized non religion. I find both to be utterly disturbing in their willingness to hate the other.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. Did you maybe miss the words "self defense" in that post?

Youre just making shit up, i think, because you have some goofy axe to grind, here.

Also, my declaring myself an "Atheist" only means what it says- i dont believe in any god or gods. And i remember when it wasnt acceptable to declare it openly, just like how gay people were expected to remain closeted.

Identifying as Gay doesn't mean all gay people are part of some club.

[Egnever]

50. What comes through quite clearly is your contempt for people who believe in religion.

I don't find it any more compelling than their contempt for your non belief is.

And I disagree with the idea gay people are not part of a group. They absolutely are they all share the same trait of being gay. They all share the same trait and it is not a belief. Atheist just dont believe in anything. Not believing in something does not make you a group that would be like saying packers fans deserve respect cause they are packers fans. Fuck that.

[SusanCalvin]

57. My atheism is a trait.

I've been an atheist since I knew what the word meant (age seven), and there is no way I can "choose" to believe in an imaginary friend.

[Egnever]

78. right and if that imaginary friend suddenly came down and performed miracles

You would sit there with your fingers in your ears and refuse to believe it. If that is true then I have little respect for your trait.

On the other hand if the imaginary friend came down and declared being gay was bad not a single gay person would be able to do a damn thing about it.

One is a trait the other is a belief.

I don't think much of most of organized religion but it certainly is not a trait to be christian even if they have been christian all their lives.

[SusanCalvin]

85. If that does happen, please let me know. nt

[lindysalsagal]

134. Me, too. Then I can stop holding my breath.

Count me as an atheist. I don't want special recognition:But I DO want religious people to stop trying to control my healthcare for their imaginary god.

(To previous resentful posters) Your imaginary god is as real as unicorns, the great pumpkin, santa, and the tooth effing fairy.

Churches get special treatment: Tax Exemption.

[SusanCalvin]

136. Yep.

[maddiemom]

122. Huh?

[Matt_R]

141. I grew up in the church with conservative parents, I am an Athiest and Liberal and did not find...

out until I was older.

When i was around 7-8 years old I was in VBS and there was a call for people to accept Jesus into their hearts. Even today I wonder why I raised my hand, was it peer pressure, pressure from my parents, I don't know. But I raised my hand, and a few weeks later was baptized. I never felt a change in my life. I went through the motions, so to speak, until I was twelve years old. I read a lot spent time at the library, this was before the internet BTW. And found out there were people that did not go to church, that did "believe" and things just started coming together. Life was tough I kept going but to a lesser extent, at around 20 I just stopped going to church, it was such a relief.

When I stopped going things got better in my life, work performance was better, I started making new friends. I found out life did not stop because I did not believe. That faking it for so long caused many problems from what I felt in my heart.

I can understand that if you need religion in your life to not do bad things, well that works for you, it does not work for me. I know right from wrong, this life is the only life and there is nothing after it. So make the best of this life for yourself and everyone around you, in fact make it better for the next generation and not bring the world down around you.

[SusanCalvin]

144. I had the same thing happen at the same age.

Except I would not get up. In deep east Texas. I'm sure you can picture the rest.....

[Matt_R]

150. It was mostly going along with what my parents wanted.

I had an opportunity to get re-baptized when I was 18-19, I declined and that's when things started changing. I was on a path to Seminary College and becoming an assistant pastor. So overall my parents were not happy.

[Warren DeMontague]

58. What comes through quite clearly is that you are making shit up to grind your axe.

To the point where you're spinning hyperbolic responses around shit I didn't say.

I'm not going back into the closet, and neither are millions of other non-believers. That is important because we deserve a say in things like making sure our kids are taught the facts around science and evolution in public school science classes, instead of creationist fairy tales. It is important because, again, non-believers have been persecuted historically, and I don't just mean me getting beat up at the bus stop.

[tblue37]

138. That is so not what he said!

He said, ". . . if anyone wants to physically try and shut me up about it now, I'm perfectly capable of performing some freelance dental work on them in self-defense" <emphasis added>.

[bravenak]

142. Damn straight.

We can just simply not believe. Nobody should be harassing, assaulting, or preaching to us.
I don't usually bother arguing about things I don't believe in. But that's probably because I grew up in a devout family and they made me go to church to fix my little no god problem. I just stopped bothering since I was always accused of blasphemy. Lucky think witch trials went out of style. I'd surely have been pressed to death.

[JRLeft]

148. There is no God, this past month I've had 3 cousins murdered,

a cousin in bad car accident, and friend's body pulled out of a canal.

People believe in a God even though their religious texts are written with major obfuscation.

[bravenak]

157. I agree

And I am so sorry for your losses

[JRLeft]

162. Thanks!

[GuestCheck]

110. Not a group but a demographic.

[Egnever]

114. Fair enough

[awoke_in_2003]

117. Yes, we are a group

and in some areas of the country, it is legal to discriminate against us.

[passiveporcupine]

120. So only people who claim to believe in GOD

Can be represented by our government's politicians?

You know the Christians are always screaming about how persecuted they are.

They get to have a lot of representation in our government. Our reps often talk about how religious they are...adn defend things that are indefensible in the name of the church.

But athiests don't get to have a voice at all? Or anyone in our government who will stand up for them?

[Egnever]

121. Not sure where you get that

[passiveporcupine]

124. Every person in this country deserves recognition and protection

of their "equal" rights. Atheists should not have to fight for laws that are made by Christians, that affect them. Like closing all abortion clinics in a State, or not allowing gay marriage because RELIGION.

Yes atheists do deserve recognition. As much as anyone else.

[LiberalAndProud]

139. Nor do we believe that creationism belongs in the classroom.

If you're curious about why we believe we need to become visible to the political spectrum, listen to AronRa's videos about the science curriculum in our United States.

If you're not convinced that we need a rally for reason in this country, you haven't been paying attention.

Speak Up for Reason!
Reason Rally 2016 is a celebration of fact-driven public policy, the value of critical thinking, and the voting power of secular Americans. The Rally will be held June 4, 2016, at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC, along with a number of ancillary events at nearby hotels. Such events include two days of lobbying (we’re scheduling visits with all 535 congressional offices!), a pre-party and after parties, a Sunday mini-conference, and several VIP events.
http://reasonrally.org/about/

What, exactly, is your objection?

[ladyVet]

145. Except, they do.

We've always been left out of consideration when laws were made to make religious lip service compulsory, or when our bodies are presumed to be some godly construction, so women especially can't be allowed to decide how those bodies are treated.

I wonder if you feel the same about minorities expecting to be recognized? Are blacks not allowed this? Muslims? Gay people?

It's not like we want an award or something. We'd just like to be thought of when people do things that affect the way we live. We'd like people to remember that this is not a Christian nation, so we don't all want to be subjugated under religious-based laws.

[TipTok]

151. Atheist groups are becoming more and more organized...

... as groups.

One of many reasons is to create policy that pushes back against those who want us to live by their interpretation of magical rules.

I can't even imagine that it is a serious question.

[Warpy]

8. Well, as long as we stay in the closet, they can feel safe

because they know everybody agrees with them that the emperor will keep them that way.

They really hate it when we pop out and say the most controversial and insulting thing we can say to them, "I'm here, too."

[Egnever]

16. What nonsense

Again you not believing in something does not make you a group.

I hate organized religion and this atheist group think appears to be the same BS with a different package.

[Warpy]

19. You're the one making up straw men.

Now go play with them. They're all yours.

[Egnever]

21. aww you have a sad

[Warren DeMontague]

28. "Don't you dare suggest my magic sky-friend isnt real"

Now THAT is haz-ing a sad.

[Egnever]

33. I would agree

just the same as Don't you dare suggest my not beliving isn't valid!

both are fucking ridiculous.

[SusanCalvin]

51. Oh please. Which is more likely? nt

[Egnever]

53. If you read this board?

I would say the atheist side is more likely.

[SusanCalvin]

61. I meant existence or nonexistence of a "god."

[Warren DeMontague]

64. you can 'suggest' anything you want.

Knock yourself out. I didn't get this far worrying too much about what other people have rattling around in their heads.

I argued with Ken Ham when he showed up here, a couple years ago. He "suggested" that anyone who doesn't think Fred Flintstone had dinosaur friends, is delusional.



If people want to say stupid shit and out themselves as imbeciles, fucking awesome. I enjoy laughing at them.

[ladyVet]

146. I think you're the one spouting nonsense.

What your intentions are, I'm not sure. But we are a group, by definition:

group
noun, often attributive ˈgrüp

Simple Definition of group

: a number of people or things that are together or in the same place

: a number of people who are connected by some shared activity, interest, or quality

: a number of things that are related in some way

Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary

Not the part I put in bold up there.^^^

[basselope]

4. What you deserve is respect

[Egnever]

6. in the form of what?

[basselope]

9. Not to be dismissed from the "Conversation"

Or treated as if your opinion doesn't matter b/c you refuse to believe in a specific fairy tale.

[Egnever]

11. What conversation?

I don't have a clue what you are talking about you have just as much a right as anyone else to present your views as an atheist. You don't have the right to demand people conform to your viewpoint any more than religious people have a right to demand you conform to theirs.

[basselope]

26. I'm actually not an athiest.

I don't believe in the fairy tale of religion, but can still accept that there are forces in the universe I don't understand. There is just too much evidence against the major religions for them to be believed.

"The conversation" is fairly simple to explain. EVERYTHING in the US is done through the eyes of religion. Each candidate has the desperate need to claim they are religious (when all of them are probably atheists or agnostics). Bernie came the closest to an honest answer on this subject.

However, as far as policy is concerned or ability, people who don't believe in a fairy tale are automatically dismissed.. their opinion rendered moot. THAT is the problem.

[Egnever]

37. You find that surprising?

somewhere in the neighborhood of 70% + of the population believes in some sort of Christianity you would be a pretty stupid politician if you didn't take advantage of that.

[SusanCalvin]

63. No, I don't find it surprising at all.

What I find it is objectionable.

[basselope]

96. Let's see if we can lead you over the finish line here...

70%+ of the population SAYS they believe in some sort of Christianity. Why? Because there is a STIGMA attached to NOT believing.

I have met many MANY church goers who if polled would tell you they are believers.. but get them drunk and have an actual conversation with them and you find out they don't believe a damn word of it, but they HAVE TO, because if they didn't they would be ostracized from their social group.

There was a time 70%+ of the population thought homosexuality was a horrible sin and homosexuals horrible people, probably child molesters.

years of gay pride parades and "special treatment" as you put it, made it less of a stigma and people are actually now willing to come up and be themselves without as much fear as before.


Do you get it now???

[Egnever]

99. LOL good try but no

equal rights is not special treatment. Atheists have equal rights. Big difference there.

[basselope]

133. Do I need to slow it down even more.

This isn't about RIGHTS. People can have equal rights, but STILL be treated differently, because of a stigma attached to how they identify themselves.

This is about helping to remove the stigma by showing that there are MANY people who feel the same way.

[Cartoonist]

38. You say you don't get it

You say you don't have a clue. I applaud your honesty.

Let me try to explain. There are people in government who write and pass laws based on their religion. They assume everybody else shares their belief. This gathering is an attempt to show these people in government that there is a large group of voters who don't buy into this shit. They will vote accordingly. No one's asking for special privileges. You got the wrong group.

[Egnever]

42. Except there isn't a large group

they are less than 4% of the population compared to over 70% that claims some form of Christianity.

That 4% means nothing and is easily ignored in the face of the 70% when those numbers get closer magically more people will be voted in that reflect your viewpoint.

I agree with you people voting based on religious views is pathetic. But then so is this apparent protest or whatever they are calling it.

[SusanCalvin]

48. Whaaaa?

Last I heard, one of our founding principles was protecting the rights of minorities.

[Egnever]

56. now you are claiming being atheist makes you a minority?

like being a packers fan makes you a minority?

[SusanCalvin]

66. Sigh....

In general. You are the one making the argument that the majority always rules, even in the case of civil rights. That argument is obviously wrong.

[Egnever]

79. My argument is politicians pay attention to the majority.

You can deny it if you like it wont change a damn thing.

[SusanCalvin]

88. Never said they didn't.

But the majority does not trump civil rights. Not to mention separation of church and state.

[Egnever]

90. What civil rights are you denied as an atheist?

[SusanCalvin]

92. Well, in Texas I could not, theoretically, be elected to any public office.

See section 4.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CN/htm/CN.1.htm

[Egnever]

94. Well I am sure that could be challenged pretty easily.

"Such religious tests have in recent decades been deemed to be unconstitutional by the extension of the First Amendment provisions to the states (via the incorporation of the 14th Amendment)."

"State-level requirements for public office were not entirely abolished until 1961, when the Supreme Court of the United States struck down religious qualifications for all public officeholders in its decision in Torcaso v. Watkins, a case concerning an atheist's right to serve as a notary public under a Maryland law requiring public officials to declare they believed in God. However, eight states still have language in their constitutions that requires such qualifications."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_qualifications_for_public_office_in_the_United_States

[SusanCalvin]

97. Oh good grief.

I give up on talking with you. The point is that I am officially written out of the constitution.

[Egnever]

106. except it has already been ruled on.

the fact that something written 1866 hasn't been changed does not change the fact that it is not enforceable. If that's the best you got well I would say my point is made.

[SusanCalvin]

108. I give up. On talking with you. nt

[Cartoonist]

52. Let's see how big it is.

The number of "nones" is growing. That 4% number is old.

[Egnever]

62. Cool!

and as the numbers grow magically you will see less pandering to religion.

[basselope]

98. That's a BS number.

Non religious is now 22.8% (it's actually #2 on the list of "religions".)

[Egnever]

113. Non religious

not atheist big difference. The number is actually smaller than I said according to this 2014 poll. Not that it makes a bit a of difference.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/06/01/10-facts-about-atheists/

The share of Americans who identify as atheists has roughly doubled in the past several years. Pew Research Center’s 2014 Religious Landscape Study found that 3.1% of American adults say they are atheists when asked about their religious identity,

[basselope]

132. Again.. try to follow.

It is because the WORD has a stigma.

[frogmarch]

10. You didn't bother to read

the article, did you? That's why you don't "get it." Atheists don't consider themselves special. You must have us mixed up with somebody else:

[Egnever]

12. Ok I will read the article.

I don't give much credence to some goofy religious nuts special poem not sure why you do either.

[Egnever]

14. Ok read the article and it appears to be an endorsement of a third party candidate.

Yipee! knock yourself out with that.

[Cooley Hurd]

22. CLEARLY I discounted the Gary Johnson endorsement...

[Egnever]

24. Wasn't responding to you

[Cooley Hurd]

30. One deserves respect...

...just as I respect you, or anyone, for their personal beliefs (as long as they do not infringe on mine).

[SusanCalvin]

47. Huh?

I just want not to be villified if I come out. Did as a child in east Texas. It wasn't pretty.

[mountain grammy]

112. My husband has asked me to please not tell his east Texas family I'm an atheist,

and I haven't out of respect for his feelings, even though he feels like a chickenshit because he's an atheist too. Those old east Texas fears can last a lifetime.

[SusanCalvin]

115. Ain't that the truth.

[valerief]

55. We should get atheist-based federal funding and tax exemptions

like the magic thinkers get.

[SusanCalvin]

70. Well, ffrf actually did.

And fought it.

http://ffrf.org/legal/challenges/highlighted-court-challenges/item/12512-ffrf-v-geithner-parish-exemption-us-district-court-western-district-o

[valerief]

87. Thanks for the link! nt

[Egnever]

82. Is there any reason an atheist church would not qualify?

[valerief]

86. There is no such thing as an atheist church. Church = magic thinking. nt

[Egnever]

89. Says you

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/01/sunday-assembly-atheist_n_5915830.html

The number of so-called “atheist churches” more than doubled this past weekend.

On Sept. 28, 35 towns around the world launched new Sunday Assembly groups for secular humanists, freethinkers, skeptics, atheists and agnostics who want a sense of community — without having to deal with any of the God stuff.

“The central idea we have to spread is that we have only one life, which means that life has to be lived to the fullest,” Mano Singham said to a newly-formed godless congregation in Strongsville, Ohio. “There is no second chance, no opportunity to have a do-over, there is no afterlife where wrongs are righted and cosmic justice meted out to the evildoers.”

The U.S. has been a particularly fruitful ground for this type of thinking, with 16 new congregations starting last weekend.

[GuestCheck]

118. Hi! It isn't called church. It's called assembly. Church is where Christians gather to worship.

It's a place to hang out, discuss things, have fun, meet people, listen to music, eat food, etc. A real good reason to get off the sofa & pass some time. A play group! For adults!

[Egnever]

119. Call it what you will

does that change the ability to get tax exemption?

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exemption-requirements-section-501-c-3-organizations

[Manifestor_of_Light]

128. You can be a Unitarian-Universalist and be an atheist, agnostic or pagan.

They are a recognized religious denomination with 2 seminaries. They are a non-creedal denomination which means you do not have to state you believe in something in particular to be accepted, like God, the trinity, or any of that stuff.

They grew out of the abolitionist movement in the 19th century. The Unitarians believed in one god and the Universalists believed in universal salvation. They merged in 1961 and now there are no Universalist seminaries. They started out as Christians into social action. There are allegedly UUs who are Christian, but I have yet to meet one who has explicitly told me they were a Christian. I've been a UU since 1979 when I discovered them in college.

The UUs have discussion groups before church instead of Sunday School. They love to discuss many subjects and tend to be very well educated.

The farthest left-wing Christian denomination I know of is the Congregationalists or United Church of Christ (UCC) which is NOT the same thing as the fundamentalist Church of Christ common in the South.

The UUs draw from many different religious and spiritual traditions and have statements of principles. You can find them at www.uua.org

You can also be a Buddhist and be an atheist. It just depends on which flavor you follow. Buddha said he was not here to talk about gods, that they were irrelevant. He said he was concerned with how we treat ourselves and each other, while we are here on earth.

That's two different places I know that you can go to on Sunday morning while being an atheist.


The standard joke is that Unitarians worship the Giver of Life--the Coffeepot.

[Egnever]

129. Sounds like something my wife would love

She does love her coffee pot. Going to have to look into that.

Thanks for the history.

[valerief]

137. They're community centers. Nothing wrong with that! nt

[.99center]

71. "I detest this I am special nonsense."

The whole point of politicians pandering to the religious is to remind them how special they are. If we didn't have a large chunk of this country being wooed by sermons given by unmoral politicians there would be no need for atheist to say something or (hide the children)be counted. That politician isn't Jesus or any other special entity, and believing in magic to cope with the fear of death doesn't make you or anyone else special. I'm fully with you, I detest this I am special nonsense and detest anyone who breaks our laws and discriminates because of their special beliefs.

[Egnever]

84. I think the whole point of politicians pandering to them

Is because they are a huge block of the voting base. If you could come up with that special phrase that endears you to that voting block you would win every single election you ran for. Just as pandering to the white male population was a winner for so long. Thankfully that era is ending. With any luck the era of organized religion will end some day too. I am not holding my breathe for it, as it has been with us since the beginning of recorded history.

I am not a fan of organized religion at all. I lay the majority of the death and destruction in this world squarely at it's feet. I see this atheist movement or whatever they want to call it as another variation on the same theme. I guess I am a humanist if I had to be defined but even then I don't like the definitions as it creates tribalism.

[passiveporcupine]

116. not special compensation

equal representation.

[Iggo]

147. Wow. I expected better.

[HuckleB]

2. But how can that be done without believers telling us we are mean?

[NightWatcher]

7. In 2014 Pew found 3.1% of those polled called themselves Atheists

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/06/01/10-facts-about-atheists/

[HuckleB]

13. That's the reality.

It's hard for atheists to face that, because they tend to group together in friendships, so they falsely perceive that there are more of them. This isn't any different for any group, of course.

And I say this as an admitted atheist.

[NightWatcher]

20. Yet still there's a untrustworthy stigma applied to non believers

I think it's funny that atheists aren't the overwhelming majority. You'd think believing in the Supernatural and fairy tales would get you shunned more than not believing, but it's not the case in most of the country.

[HuckleB]

23. It won't happen in my lifetime.

In fact, I worry that things may get worse before they get better.

[NightWatcher]

32. I think it'll get better. The American Taliban has peaked and are on the way down

I think it's great that the RW couldn't even manipulate their masses enough to field one of their guys to win the repukes nomination.

[HuckleB]

40. In terms of numbers, I think you're right.

I worry about nut jobs taking out people like Steven Novella, as an example, because God told them to do it.



Have a great weekend!

[SusanCalvin]

72. I don't care how many there are or aren't.

I just want not to be vilified if I come out. What am I hurting except delicate sensibilities....? (Yeah, I know. A lot of entrenched PTBs.)

[Fumesucker]

81. I've never met another atheist

Not knowingly, it's something atheists in my part of the country don't discuss so we have no way of recognizing each other.

[SusanCalvin]

91. Now that you mention it,

I'm not sure I've met one IRL either. Except hubby, and he hedges.

[hughee99]

29. Sounds like they've already been counted. Nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

59. Meanwhile on the other side of the pond:

and recent surveys show that more people claim "no religion" than call themselves Christian. The USA seems singularly backwards, among developed countries.

[JI7]

140. we have to remember that Non Religious does not usually mean Atheist

many people view themselves as non religious meaning they don't really live their life based on some religious teachings. but they still believe in some higher power .

i'm an atheist and while i do come across many non religious types , i don't usually meet those who are atheist .

[kentauros]

159. That's a common point of confusion.

And it's usually presented as meaning atheist, when it really just means exactly what it implies: no religion.

I'm Non Religious. But I have New Age-based beliefs. And that's about as far from atheism as you can get! Especially when it comes to stuff people like to mock

[Monk06]

17. When I am asked about religion I just say I do not believe in magic or miracles. I don't mention god

at all

That puts the onus on the other person to justify their beliefs

Declaring yourself an atheist puts you in the position of having to justify a belief ie that god does not exist

Skepticism puts the responsibility for beliefs and arguments on the other person

As a Skeptic they must convince you of correctness of their opinion. Just like the man from Missouri

[Gomez163]

27. I'm not really an atheist. I do yoga. That's kind of a religion.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. The precised definition of "Atheist" is without God (or gods)

There are plenty of traditions, practices and philosophies which fall under the umbrella of what we might call "religions" that nevertheless dont always include god or gods per se.

buddhism, for one.

[HuckleB]

36. Well, that is true.

Even though most Americans don't recognize it.

When an OT used yoga at an Eating Disorders clinic where I worked, more than one fundy parent objected to it. Very interesting.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

35. I've been told I "shouldn't tell people that" for merely declaring I'm an agnostic

It is amazing to me that there are some people who don't embrace their sexuality, figure out a career path, take forever to choose what model car to buy, but by 13 years old you better damn well have figured out your religion and believe in a God!

[HuckleB]

41. You win post of the day!

Of course, I would add that there are people who can't even choose something off the menu at a restaurant!

[Odin2005]

43. As an Ex-Atheist I have come to detest the "New Atheism" movement

IMO a new kind of anti-intellectualism for smart people has grown around it, enshrining a naive Scientism that is dogmatically taken as truth. They are the theologians of the STEM-Supremacy cult.

[Cooley Hurd]

45. I'm a humanist, which is based on Atheism...

Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism, empiricism) over acceptance of dogma or superstition.

[Odin2005]

65. I was not refering to traditional Humanists in my post.

I was referring to the highly militant anti-religious people, usually from STEM backgrounds, who have a kind of disdain for philosophy not seen since the Logical Positivists, and have dangerously naive beliefs about science being the solution to every problem. Many of them eventually come to shit on psychology and the social sciences as "not real science", which often then leads to RW attitudes towards women and racial minorities as biologically inferior because they reject all sociological explanations.

[Cooley Hurd]

68. Simply, I'm cool with what anyone believes to their core...

...just respect my thing. Super simple.

[TipTok]

154. That's part of the point...

Silly and obviously untrue ideas don't deserve respect.

They should be countered at every opportunity as they shrink from civilized society.

[SusanCalvin]

93. I'm a STEM person, and I have no disdain for the humanities.

What I have disdain for, in many but not all respects, is organized religion.

[LiberalAndProud]

149. Good grief. I've not encountered that mindset in the secular community.

Many, huh? Who would have guessed?

[HuckleB]

54. It would be better to criticize individuals who end up with that tag.

I don't think it's fair to generalize quite so much.

And "scientism" is just not worthy of you. You are one of my favorite posters. Please don't go there.

[Odin2005]

73. By "scientism" I was referring to a naive attitude that...

...sees "science" as the solution to all problems and as the sole source of capital-T Truth, I wasn't meaning it in the way that RW Fundies use the term.

[valerief]

60. I find the idea of an ex-atheist difficult to swallow. You must have been an AINO. nt

[Odin2005]

67. Of for fuck's sake, I hate the "you were never a REAL atheist" BS.

EDIT: And I am a Buddhist, if you are wondering to know what religion I converted to.

[SusanCalvin]

95. As I understand it,

You don't have to believe in a "god" to be Buddhist...?

[Arazi]

107. That's true

[Odin2005]

131. Buddhism has god-like beings (devas and asuras), supernatural beliefs like Karma and Rebirth...

...and revered saints (Boddhisatvas).

[TipTok]

155. Which is equally as silly as any of the big 3 religions...

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

75. Right, because there should be no blowback from the fact religion is fucking a lot of things up.....

....in the world and has been for centuries.

"New Atheists" have about as much influence as all the social justice movements you defend whether they are worthy or not. "Religious" is the default setting in this country and the world. So stop fretting. You're protected and privileged.

[Odin2005]

77. I'm a Buddhist, so I doubt that I am "privileged and protected" in most parts of the US.

Especially not the rural South and Midwest.

[SusanCalvin]

109. True, it's not just the non-organized-religious. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

44. Rec'cing for the "be counted" part

I already voted for someone for POTUS who is arguably a non-believer in a Deity, and it wasn't Gary Johnson.

[Cooley Hurd]

46. Thanks Warren!

[Warren DeMontague]

49. OT: I think we've had this conversation before

but "Discipline" is a great effing album.

[tenderfoot]

69. Penn Jillette is a libertarian douche

Who cares what he says?

[Cooley Hurd]

74. But he's an Atheist so he has a bit of redemption

I love not being narrow-minded or tunnel-visioned.

[SusanCalvin]

76. Well, if he's a libertarian then I don't, now that you mention it. nt

[TrappedInUtah]

80. Not that many true atheists

At least here in the US. It only seems like we have a lot of them online because they all group together, and believers don't really feel like arguing with them and getting jumped on by everyone.

Somehow "We don't understand everything and I'm open to the idea of there being something special or supernatural about existence" turns into "LOL YOU BELIEVE IN UNICORNS AND FAIRY TALES AND SUCH". Militant atheists are sometimes almost as antagonistic as the religious in how they try to tear down the views of those they disagree with.

[Cooley Hurd]

83. To me, and many (like 10+) I know in my tiny sphere, don't believe in a "God"

Granted, I'm not in the deep South; I'm smackdab in Central NYS, but I find a majority percentage of my friends are Atheists. Those who claim to be believers in supreme beings do so with little conviction.

[SusanCalvin]

100. I should move there. nt

[oberliner]

101. He moderated the last Libertarian Party debate

For what that is worth.

[MisterP]

102. isn't Penn Jillette the Powell Memo on two legs?

[SusanCalvin]

103. I got a Yip Harburg (atheist) thread sitting at four recs -

Anybody wanna help me out....? ;->

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027878766

[Cooley Hurd]

104. Diddly-done-erino!

[SusanCalvin]

105. .

[rpannier]

123. Gave you a 6th

just in case someone backs out you have a small buffer

[SusanCalvin]

125. .

I just love that man so much!

[rug]

111. Penn Jillettte dancing for the Cato Institute.

[MisterP]

126. also advertising non-flying toys

[rug]

127. And he doesn't believe in infinity or beyond.

[liberalnarb]

130. He may be right about this,

but Jillette is a Libertarian shill for the pharmaceutical companies that right him checks.

[Onlaketime]

135. I'm not religious, but I am spiritually out there.

I tend to think that agnosticism is the best way to roll as both being religious and being atheistic offer a finite view which can't be proven either way.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

143. He may be right.

Or he may not.

I don't know, I guess I'm agnostic.

I can't disagree with Penn on his religious views, or lack thereof. I can disagree with his politics.

[Tikki]

152. I never talk sex, politics or religion out among the general population, but if someone...

were to walk up to me and ask if I were an atheist, I would answer YES.

But then what kind of person would just walk up to someone and ask about what church they go to?*




Tikki


*we already know the answer to that...

[backscatter712]

153. Not a fan of Gary Johnson. My atheism did factor into my support for Bernie.

Bernie seems to be the only Dem in the race that's reasonably secular and honest about it. He's a secular Jew, Jewish in ethnicity, but not believing in the mythology. Works for me.

Well, there's Donald Trump, who clearly doesn't believe in the God shit, but is bent on manipulating the evangelicals into thinking he does. "Look, he pointed at the sky! It's a secret sign saying he's one of us! Praise Jeezus!"

[frankieallen]

156. Oh please....whatever. Fine, your counted

[Mendocino]

161. Fine

your snark is noted.

[Matrosov]

158. As a fellow atheist, fuck Penn Jillette

He's also a hardcore libertarian asshole

[lindysalsagal]

160. In CT 54% said they believe in an all-powerful god, so 46% are atheists.

The labels are the problem. If you ask people the right way, there are far more non-believers than you would expect.